This is the best post you've ever written, Ace.

Nothing's here yet, but I just *know* it will be!

Kerry is a moron. "Ghengis" is not pronounced "Jhingis," it's pronounced "Cheney."

"It's amusing that he thinks the job of "terrorizing children" should be performed by Iraqis. That's kind of Kerry's whole "Iraq Plan" -- have someone else do it."

Good catch. I have to admit that I don't even hear what Kerry etc are saying anymore, its just downbeat tones, kind of like Charlie Brown's teachers; wah wah wah.

Tob

But we do not need 160,000 troops running around the country as a whole, exposing themselves

Our troops are running around Iraq exposing themselves? This is terrible, I mean in all the footage you see there's kids everywhere. Don't our troops have latrines and tents they can use for that sort of thing?

Don't you realize that the troops are exposing themselves just to make sure Andrew Sullivan can continue to support the war effort without supporting the president?

Remember when our soldiers when into that Iraqi home and found porn under the child's bed and just through it out in the open and his mother saw it? The poor Iraqi child was forced to beat us his mother.

I heard a clip from this interview. Kerry was still going on and on that he was/is the best man for the job. He better hope Hillary doesn't hear it.

. . . we need to keep Special Forces capacity. We need to have the ability to go after hard intelligence. We need to chase down Zarqawi. But we do not need 160,000 troops running around the country as a whole . . .

Yeah, because a handful of SF troops are going to be able to cover the entire country. Let me put it to you in terms you can understand Senator Dumbfuck. It's like last Saturday night when you paid that street gang to pull a train on you. Once the top dog's cum and gone, the next in line steps in. He doesn't fit as well because the gap in experience has grown larger, stretched out so to speak. Still, he's there. Then another, ad-fucking-infinitum.

So who's going to continue to provide the Iraqi military and police forces the training they need? Give them the support they need while growing? Not a handful of Special Ops guys. They'll be busy hunting down an endless string of anal beads popping out of the terrorist camps.

So to speak.

A few months ago 50-something million people voted in favor of this man becoming President of the United States of America.

So, (as I think Ace has already pointed out), it appears Kerry wanted more troops before he wanted less of them?

I suppose he could terrorize them during the day, like Waco, or Ruby Ridge.

So let me get this straight, our troops, the ones giving kids candy and medicine, are terrorizing Iraqi children. Not sociopaths that set bombs off near lines of kids; they're all Kool and the gang. Is Kerry this much of a dumbass, or does ambition coupled with a complete lack of principles cause his voice box to malfunction? Why can't this sanctimonious drone shut his suck every once in a while?

"The guy with the big maul" is Thorgrim. Rexor is the other big guy with a sword. James Earl Jones' character is Thulsa Doom.

Dave, you took the words right out of my head.

Best post ever, Ace. Perfect!

Sen. KERRY: ...Iraqis should be doing that [terrorizing children etc]

I always had the impression that part of the purpose of this war was to prevent Iraqis from terrorizing other Iraqis. 'Specially gassin' those naughty Kurdish kids.

Look at this doofus's "plan". Go after hard intelligence, more SF, blah,blah. Platitudes, the fucking lot of them. Not one tangible idea or suggestion, not one nugget of realism in anything he said. "We need to go after Zarqawi". Really, Johnny? Thanks for that tip, I'm sure no one thought of that.

So, Kerry is defaming American servicemen (again)? Some things just never change. He accused the US of fictional atrocities in Vietnam, and here we go again today. Typical of the left.

Technically typhus killed Anne Frank. Why do you have to blame the Nazis for everything?

Excellent post, but one comment - the Germans did not kill Ann Frank, they murdered her. People are killed in car wrecks, the Nazis' victims were murdered.

Same goes for Sept 11th also - people in the towers, on the planes and at the Pentagon were murdered, not killed. (Leftists say killed re: 9/11 because they want to minimize what happened on that day.)

This morning, Rush ranted for a full hour about this latest example of Kerry's patriotism. First impulse is to slander the troops, just like he did in 1971, which Rush played a clip of; same ol' same ol'.

It seems Kerry wants American troops to come back here to the States where they can resume the kinds of missions we saw under our last Democrat president: going into the homes of Americans in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children... like Elian Gonzalez.

Posted by OregonMuse at December 5, 2005 04:31 PM

To say Kerry "slandered" the troops is to misrepresent what he actually said. He was reporting to Congress what other soldiers had testified to and what he actually experienced.

Posted by OregonMuse at December 5, 2005 04:31 PM

What would "ya'll" do without Rush.
That's a rhetorical question.

What would "ya'll" do without Rush.

I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. Or any radio, for that matter. When I drive, I listen to CDs.

I didn't make up my mind about John Kerry based on anything Rush Limbaugh might have said. I made up my mind based on John Kerry's own statements. What he said, not what others said about him. And it just so happens that if you scroll up, you'll see some choice John Kerry quotes above. (No Rush Limbaugh commentary, though, so some of us "wingers" will have to make up our own minds, which will no doubt be difficult for us.)

That's a rhetorical question.

Oh. In that case, never mind, then. Please ignore this post.

To say Kerry "slandered" the troops is to misrepresent what he actually said. He was reporting to Congress what other soldiers had testified to and what he actually experienced.

If Kerry was reporting what other people said then it's heresay at best (for the express purpose of slander!).
And if Kerry was reporting what he actually saw then he is a war criminal and a coward. As an officer in the USN he has a duty to ensure that the men under him (and above him!) are obeying the USCMJ and the laws of warfare. As such by enabling the crimes he "reported" he is an accomplice.
And lets not even get into his mysterious discharge (no not that kind of discharge, the ointments fixed it up), his treasonous meetings with the NVA, or his place in the peoples hall of heroes in Ho Chi Minh City.

What Kind of fucked up state has a man like that as a Senator? (the same kind that says "bitch had it coming" when a Kennedy does the deed)

What kind of fucked up party runs that man for the Presidency? (the same kind that anoints an unreopentant Klansman as the conscience of the Seante)

Posted by sandy burger at December 6, 2005 12:51 AM

Funny it showed up on this site the day Rush devoted an HOUR long segment on it, no?
I never called you or anyone else a "winger" though now that you mention it, it is appropriate being that “Winger” is an 80’s, all style, no-substance, crappy, hair-metal band. At least the proprietor of this hole in the web site has the decency to allude to the best…
ANARCHIST METAL BAND OF ALL TIME MOTERHEAD

Posted by HowardDevore at December 6, 2005 01:39 AM

Thank you, for showing your ignorance.
If you knew what you were talking about you would know why Kerry said what he said. The false assertion of your first sentence betrays you ignorance of the subject. Other-WISE you would not have stated it as an “If-Then” statement, twice!
I applaud Kerry for coming forward and telling about what must have been very difficult experiences for a young man. Maybe you’re right about any participation he may have engaged in over there, maybe there should have been an investigation? Hahahaha man come on what do you think he was testifying about and to whom?

As to your disparaging remarks in regards to Senators Kennedy and Bird…

Tell it to Jack Abramoff, Joe Scarborough, Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond.

Doh!

How I could I forget that basic rule of forensics, "if you use an if-then your point is invalid without having to refute it or address the logic therein"

No wait, that was in programming with the goto commands. I think you've got the two confused. You do seem to be prety heavy into programming...

Still it is my fault. I should have realized that all american soldiers are baby raping psychos, after all, John "f'n" Kerry said so, and he's a war hero. With medals and everything. Spares even, so he could chuck away one copy in disgust over his country (though not his actions- just because he was a baby raping psycho we still have to respect him) while proudly displaying the others in pride of his country and service.
And no, I'm not questioning your patriotism or support for the baby raping psychos still in Iraq.

And I'm sorry for telling disparaging facts about your liberal icons (just because you elevate liars, murderers, terrorists and war criminals to the highest offices in the land doesn't make you any less American) while ignoring such reprobates as Jack Abramoff (who elected him again?), Joe Scarborough (Oh no he cheated on his wife and was cast out for it. or do you refer to the fact that one of his aides died and the police didn't arrest him right out, even though JCool28 on the DU said he murdered her), Strom Thurmond (oh no the Repuglithugs accepted a reformed racist dixiecrat into their party, rather than unreformed racists like Gore, Byrd, Fulbright & Sharpton) and Trent Lott (oh no he said something nice about a retiring coleague. Doesn't he know that Strom was evil back in his democrat er "dixiecrat" days. You can't say nice things at his retirement party)

Posted by HowardDevore at December 6, 2005 11:39 AM

You point is invalid because it is false. Kerry was asked to testify before Congress, about hearings that were held where soldiers testified about their experiences, he was one of them. Congress found that atrocities had been committed. The “if-then” statement betrayed your ignorance, because you would have stated it as a fact rather than a probability.

You next assertions about all soldiers being baby rapists is shear hyperbole and, totally disingenuous. Neither Kerry nor I have ever claimed such a thing. You then go on to make the false assertion that if you are disgusted with your government that you hate the whole country, which is absolutely false. I do not like conservative leadership, but I love my country. Support our troops; bring them home where they are not under attack.
Then you say.......

And I'm sorry for telling disparaging facts about your liberal icons You are not sorry, Liar! (just because you elevate liars, murderers, terrorists and war criminals to the highest offices in the land doesn't make you any less American) You are “projecting” haha while ignoring such reprobates as Jack Abramoff (who elected him again?), It’s not about who elected him, it’s about who he got elected and why. It’s republicans because they are corrupt. Joe Scarborough (Oh no he cheated on his wife and was cast out for it. or do you refer to the fact that one of his aides died and the police didn't arrest him right out, even though JCool28 on the DU said he murdered her), We may never know what happened to that intern since the investigation was botched so badly, conveniently enough for Joe Strom Thurmond (oh no the Repuglithugs accepted a reformed racist dixiecrat into their party, rather than unreformed racists like Gore, Byrd, Fulbright & Sharpton) Pure Hypocrisy! Thurmond is reformed and Byrd is not? Byrd has denounced his past for decades and his voting record reflects that as opposed to Strom who did everything he could to keep Black people from gaining any ground in America. Gore, Fulbright & Sharpton? I don’t know where you get this crap. and Trent Lott (oh no he said something nice about a retiring coleague. Doesn't he know that Strom was evil back in his democrat er "dixiecrat" days. You can't say nice things at his retirement party) He said it TWICE, the first time in the early 80’s at Strom’s b-day party then said it again when he was forced to step down in disgrace.

"as opposed to Strom who did everything he could to keep Black people from gaining any ground in America."

I know that I'm late to this party but I can't let this pass unchallenged. Out of the 'everything' you cite, can you actually name something that Strom 'the stoat' did, after his Republican epiphany, to ' keep Black people from gaining any ground in America.'?

Tob

It’s not about who elected him, it’s about who he got elected and why. It’s republicans because they are corrupt.

Hey, Abramoff was a bi-partisan sort of dude.

By the way, as far as I know, Strom is the only plotician to have sex with a condemned murderer on her way to the death house. What a send off.

Tob

More here.

Sorry, long night (and morning!) at work.

At this point I'm trying to decide whether you just have 3rd grade reading comprehension or if you're just an idiot (purposeful or not)

I do not doubt that Kerry was invited to Congress. He didn't break in to a closed meeting, fight off the capitol police, stare down the Congresscritters & reporters with sheer Cheyneyesque magnetism, and then calmly sit down and deliver his testimony. VVAW actually helped set up the Winter Soldier investigations.

The conditional reffered to the only 2 possiblities: Either Kerry was a witness (and by not ending it, an accomplice) to such crimes as he described OR he was just "reporting" what he had been told (unsourced I might add) in which case it IS heresay.
Heresay is sometimes admissable (and this wasn't even a court of law) but it still was heresay and gossip without wittnesses, dates and actual testimony.
[If any of the hundreds of lawyers who pore over this site want to correct me on the details of heresay, feel free]. And yes his testimony actually makes it clear that he was just spreading malicious gossip- he claimed to have spoken with and to testify for these war criminals. If these "men" truly commited these acts and were repentant for it, they should have marched up to Capitol Hill, testified in person, and then willingly marched down to the stockade to serve their penance.
Since they didn't, and Kerry, their annonited "spokesman", wouldn't do his part to bring these self confessed war criminals to justice, they're all cowards and Kerry is their accomplice.
Unless Kerry didn't really believe them, in which case he was spreading gossip specifically to harm the morale of the country AND the troops in the field

So make up your mind. Was Kerry being honest in relaying the (heresay) testimony of the crimes, in which case he is an accomplice, hiding the identity of war criminals from justice. Or was he lying to score political points, spreading gossip to harm american soldiers.

You next assertions about all soldiers being baby rapists is shear hyperbole and, totally disingenuous. Neither Kerry nor I have ever claimed such a thing.
I don't know about your assertions, but you are defending Kerry, who has claimed as much.

"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. "

Kerry claimed that pretty much they were criminals and it was ordered at the highest levels of command. And now he's calling American troops terrorists!

And then to respond to your more off topic points (yes I started it).

Yes I was lying when I said I was sorry. Next we can work on irony.
Abramoff got people elected? I didn't know he worked for Diebold! Will the wonders of Cheney ever cease. And he's electing Republican's because they are corrupt? Or are his elections causing corruption?

And by not imediataly throwing Joe in jail, the police botched the investigation? The police should have used the DU as the start of the investigation?
I take the whole Mena chronicles/Dead Clinton friends stuff with a grain of salt also. I tend to want actual proof before convicting someone (or believing that a junior House member not named Kennedy could get away with murder)

And I believe eventually switching from the party of Segregation to the party of freedom shows a change of heart on Strom's part, as opposed to Robert "White Nigger" "The Klan is an upstanding orginization" Byrd. Byrd was a Klan recruiter, and I'm sorry but that takes a whole lot of commitment to the cause. Barring a "road to Damascus" style conversion (which Byrd's letter to the NYT doesn't support) I don't believe he's reformed. And if we're tarring and feathering Trent for being nice to Strom on TWO occasions, the whole Democrat Senate needs to be strung up then for not making punching out Robert Byrd the first order of business before every session.
(Seriously, Byrd was a KLAN recruiter. There is no defense for that)

And yes Gore , Fulbright and Al Sharpton are racists. Isn't google a wonderful thing?

Gah I feel dirty for actually using a wiki. Time to go shower the filth off.

I had to kill a link because C N N.com was questionable content. Wow, Rove must be on the warpath!

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam, in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

Yes, that is what he said all documented by the militaries own records. Here are some exerpts of some of those records, with names abrieviated or deleted.

On August 12, 1967, Specialist S., a military intelligence interrogator, "raped . . . a 13-year-old . . . female" in an interrogation hut in a P.O.W. compound.
---------------------------------------------------------------

On August 9, 1968, a seven-man patrol led by First Lieutenant S. entered Dien Tien hamlet. "Shortly thereafter, Private First Class W. was heard to shout to an unidentified person to halt. W. fired his M-16 several times, and the victim was killed. W. then dragged the body to [the lieutenant's] location. . . . Staff Sergeant B. told W. to bring back an ear or finger if he wanted to prove himself a man. W. later went back to the body and removed both ears and a finger."
------------------------------------------------------------------

On June 23, 1967, members of the 25th Infantry Division killed two enemy soldiers in combat in Binh Duong province. An army Criminal Investigation Division (CID) probe disclosed that "Staff Sergeant H. then decapitated the bodies with an axe."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

A CID investigation disclosed that during late February or early March 1968 near Thanh Duc, South Vietnam, First Lieutenant L. ordered soldier K. to shoot an unidentified Vietnamese civilian. "K. shot the Vietnamese civilian, leaving him with wounds in the chest and stomach. Soldier B., acting on orders from L., returned to the scene and killed the Vietnamese civilian, and an unidentified medic severed the Vietnamese civilian's left arm."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

On February 14, 1969, Platoon Sergeant B. and Specialist R., on a reconnaissance patrol in Binh Dinh province, "came upon three Vietnamese males . . . whom they detained and then shot at close range using M-16 automatic fire. B. then arranged the bodies on the ground so that their heads were close together. A fragmentation grenade was dropped next to the heads of the bodies."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

While a U.S. "helicopter hunter-killer team . . . was on a recon mission in Cambodia," its members fired rockets at buildings and "engaged various targets [in a small village] with machine-gun fire. Gunship preparatory fire preceded the landing of a South Vietnamese army platoon, which had been diverted from another mission. A U.S. captain accompanied the platoon on the ground in violation of standing orders. The South Vietnamese troops, reconnoitering by fire, did not search bunkers for enemy forces, nor were enemy weapons found. . . . Civilian casualties were estimated at eight dead, including two children, 15 wounded, and three or four structures destroyed. There is no evidence that the wounded were provided medical treatment by either U.S. or South Vietnamese forces. . . . Members of the South Vietnamese platoon returned to the aircraft with large quantities of civilian property. . . . The incident was neither properly investigated nor reported initially."
----------------------------------------------------------------
Now tell me about "tiger force" or The "Phoenix Program" or " Mai ly"?
Although I can refute your assertions about the Democrats you mentioned this post is long enough and I will just end by saying I stand by the progressive movement in the party.

CID? hmm that sounds familar.

Oh Criminal Investigation Division, you got it.

But why would Criminal investigators be involved if this was the standard conduct of US troops, "with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

Could it be that these activities were not the norm and those responsible were put behind bars (if proven to military justice standards)?
That when these soldiers strayed outside of reasonable conduct we actually punished them? Even though as draftees from all walks, including those who probably would be behind bars for similar activities in civie life, the ultimate folly of the Democrat's army of choice.

But still you avoid confronting the ultimate point, Kerry's crimes, just as you dodge the racism, past and present of the Democrats.
If Kerry was true in his heresay testimony, he was hiding the identity of confessed war criminals, despite the military's interest in prosecuting them. Making him an accomplice. And if he was lying or exagerating, he was doing so to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

Your doing everything but actually defending Kerry here.

First, EVERYTHING Kerry said in the quote you posted is TRUE!
The only question is did Higher Authorities order any of it?
Kerry, when talking about what he experienced in terms of "war crimes" was specifically talking about "free fire zones" (that he participated in, though never knowingly shot or saw anyone shoot civilians) and "carpet bombings" (that he did not participate in) that indiscriminately murder (overkill, a term invented by the higher authorities for just such purposes.) innocent civilians by design of said higher authorities. Further investigations in to said "higher authorities" was stifled intentionally to prevent them from coming up on charges. The evidence is all there all that waits is the trails. One of said "higher authorities" is about to go on trial for the tiger force crimes, thirty years late.
Speaking of tiger force, how convenient for you to skip that the "Phoenix Program" and " Mai ly" that directly implicate "higher authorities"
Kerry spoke by invitation before Congress to tell about the winter soldier investigations (WSI). Most of the Winter Soldier participants had publicly given accounts with their own names, unit identifications, dates of service, and sometimes rather detailed descriptions of locations—namely, all the information needed to proceed with investigations, 46 soldiers who testified at the WSI made allegations that in the eyes of U.S. Army investigators, "merited further inquiry." In practically all the specific Winter Soldier cases, such probes were never done.

I have limited time so I will stay on topic for now, maybe, if and when I return, I will debunk you assertions about democrats you named, and I can.

But I have a life and I have to go now.

Yawn. Another drive-by troll.

Posted by zetetic at December 8, 2005 02:20 PM

Don't sell yourself short; I'm sure some people will think
you're an interesting "regular" troll.

Not me, but… keep searching I'm sure you'll find someone, eventually, maybe.

Oh, you clever clever lefty douchebag, you.

Posted by HowardDevore at December 8, 2005 12:49 AM

NOW! to refute you claims about these Democrats you named, First I'll talk type about Al Gore Sr.

Your claim that Al Gore Sr. is a racist is either intellectually lazy or disingenuous. You back you claim by saying that he (Al Gore Sr,) is a racist because he voted against the voting rights act of 64.
First he is DEAD, just like Albright and the racist past of the Democratic Party.
How convenient for you to ignore that Gore was one of only three Democratic senators from the 11 former Confederate states who refused to sign the 1956 Southern Manifesto opposing integration, all those states are republican now, the Free States are ALL democratic now, figure that one out.
Next you ignore the FACT that Al Gore Sr. apologized for that vote and did support the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Next you ignore the fact that the republican who defeated Al Gore Sr., Republican William E. Brock III. was widely perceived to have won by playing on white voters' fears of civil rights and desegregation for blacks and was part of the Nixon/Agnew "Southern strategy" A strategy used very effectively by Ronald Reagan, who never supported the use of federal power to provide blacks with civil rights and opposed the landmark Voting Rights Act of 1965. Reagan said in 1980 that the Voting Rights Act had been “humiliating to the South.”

Awwe poor southerners humiliated by JUSTICE again. I suppose you'll renounce Reagan now?

I did not see anything in the articles you posted that Al Sharpton did that was directly racist, he does play hardball politics and is not all ways “PC” but I thought you republicans liked that kind of thing.
Al Sharpton is our comic relief (like Bush is for you, but we would never vote him in to the highest office in the land), he is articulate and fun to watch. But he has never won an election, and will never be able to pull off a State or National election. By the way when are Republicans going to run a Black, a Jew or a Woman for President, I mean even a token, come on man?
Republicans have not nominated a woman to run on the national party ticket since 1964, when was the last Black or Jew to run on the national republican party ticket?
Ever wonder why Democrats have been doing it consistently since the thirties?
Caraway, Hattie Wyatt the first woman to be elected to the U.S. Senate
JFK first catholic President
Shirley Chisholm the first black woman Presidential candidate
Geraldine Ferraro the first woman to run on a major party’s national ticket
Lieberman became the first-ever Jewish candidate on a major party ticket
Al Sharpton last black man to run for national office

Any accusation that Democrats (in general) are racist is nothing but wind (meaningless)
The Democratic Party is composed of many different ethnicities; we work together, and get along very well.

Thank You!

HowardDevore

What Up Howie?
Get bored?
Get Defeated?
Get Lost?

It's been two days and this thread will not last long.