US: Let's roll.
THEM: Let's troll.

Cite? Can you give me a quotation of anyone actually saying that?

Or are you just making up more lies?

There are lies, damned lies, and not citing a stupid liberal propoganda machine.

Are you questioning their patriotism?

Who was right about Iraq?

Molly Ivins? Or Paul Wolfowitz?

Libs being dumb is old news Ace. Jennifer Aniston old.

Tubino,

Right? Wrong?

Why is everything so black and white with you people?

Have you not heard there are shades of gray? Nuances? Complexities? Wollschteins?

I'm dumb, but I'm smart enough to know what I'm dumb about.

Touche.
I'd like to think of myself like that as well.

Ace-

This may be your entire point of linking that Santa Monica Mirror piece, but did you notice that Mr. Smarty McSmartenheimer there didn't bother to look up the correct spelling of Robert Scheer's name?

The smartest people I've ever met were homeschooled Christians, the kind that left-wing elites hate so much. And the dumbest all went to NYU and became New York Times writers... Go figure.

Who was right about Iraq?Molly Ivins? Or Paul Wolfowitz?

Errr ... Wolfowitz. Screw nuance - I reject the implied premise that we are losing or that the peace has been botched. Historically it's butter smooth.

Molly Ivins can make all of the clever generalizations that she wants. Ultimately, she's where she belongs - writing for a hack paper and becoming fodder for send up campy right wing blogs, and Wolfowitz is right where he belongs - at the head of the World Bank.

You forgot to tell tubino how smart he is. Let's see if it works:

Tubino! You are just so smart! I am amazed at the breadth and depth of your intelligence, which far exceeds mine or anyone else's on this blog on every level! Nay -- across the length and breadth of the entire internet itself, your amazing intellect shines! You da smartest, man! You got smart! Smarty smart smart! Take that, puny humans, TUBINO -- HE BE SMART. EL NUMERO UNO A-NUMBER ONE HEY-LOOK-AT-ME-TOP-O'-THE-WORLD-MA STUPENDO BRAIN PAR EXCELLANCE EMPEROR OF ALL THE BIG HEADS SMART GUY.

Word.

(So, is he gone?)

Cute: Have you not heard there are shades of gray? Nuances?

Cuter: We have no idea what kind of ethnic strife might appear in the future, although as I have noted, it has not been the history of Iraq's past. -- Paul Wolfowitz

Here's a nice shade of gray from 1959 in Iraq:

For four days and four nights Kurds and Yezdis stood against Arabs; Assyrian and Aramean Christians against Arab Moslems; the Arab tribe of Albu Mutaiwat against the Arab tribe of Shammar; the Kurdish tribe of al-Gargariyyah against Arab Albu Mutaiwat; the peasants of the Mosul country against their landlords; the soldiers of the Fifth Brigade against their officers; the periphery of the city of Mosul against the center; the plebians of the Arab quarters of Al-Makkawi and Wadi Hajar against the aristocrats of the Arab quarter of ad-Dawwash; and within the quarter of Bab al-Baid, the family of al-Rajabu aggainst its traditional rivals, the Aghawat. It seemed as if all social cement dissolved and all political authority vanished.

From Republic of Fear.

So who was right about Iraq: Ivins or Wolfie?

You're very, very smart for quoting Paul Wolfowitz stating that "we have no idea" how much ethnic strife might be present in postwar Iraq.

God, you're smart.

Can I suck your dick?

To clarify: Ivins predicted a quick "win" followed by the peace from hell. She accurately predicted what's going on in Iraq for the last 2 years.

Wolfowitz, on the other hand, said this: "There are other differences that suggest that peacekeeping requirements in Iraq might be much lower than our historical experience in the Balkans suggest."

Shya right. DeeDaGo? Want to tackle this one?

Ace, speaking of Scheer, didya catch Jonah Goldberg's G-file Wednesday, where he responds to Streisand's yapping? 'Twas a fine work.

And I'm not just saying that because I'm on Jonah's payroll. Because I'm not.

But if it paid well, I would be.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

"From Republic of Fear."

So you HAVE read that book!

And you still think Iraq is worse off now?

Wait, let me pre-empt you: "at least under Saddam there was security."

Yeah? Is that what you were going to say? More or less?

I think Andrea said it best. Tubino is just categorically smarter than everyone else. Including Al Gore, who, as we all know, invented the inter-thingy.

But just to make the point, an out of context quote from Wolfowitz against an context-establishing introduction does not an argument make.

But I bet you knew that. i bet you were just setting me up.

"Can I suck your dick?"

It's spoken for tonight, but maybe another time -- IF YOU FLOSS FIRST.

I have standards.

If anyone wants to put their beliefs to a test, I'm always open to a bet.

Fitz indictments? Progress in Afghanistan? Abramoff scandal?

Tubino, baby,

I understand from your flaccid typing that your a pussy, but I have two words for your sorry ass...

Stalingrad.

This 'peace' has been a fucking cakewalk. Are you kidding me? 2000 dead for the whole stretch, more have died in training you idjit. In training!

I realize the DNC stamps thier talking points on your red baboon ass, but can't you at least make it entertaining?

As to Molly Ivins, I hear she's still recovering from a 'special report' from the Cheney. All hail!

And you still think Iraq is worse off now?

Uh, I didn't actually say that... but when the VP of Iraq says in many ways it is just as bad... it's worth thinking about.

Iraqi fatalities are estimated from ~26K to over 100K in the last 2.5 years. It is far from clear that left alone, Saddam would have exceeded those numbers.

Certainly in many measures (oil production, homicides, access to drinking water) it seems that Iraq is worse now.

But hey, they've got a flat tax!

Hey what happened to Fitzmas? I had my stocking up but all I got was block of stinky tofu.

Jake J.,

Ratio of wounded to fatalities is high, as high as 7:1. Nearly 15K US military wounded, many quite badly. Limbs and organs -- like eyes -- blown off.

That's not a cakewalk. It's due in part to the incredible advances in battlefield medicine. In previous conflicts many of those 15K would not have survived.

It's not a cakewalk, moron.

If you want to be formal, I'd be happy to tackle it. What is interesting is that I don't have to.

Your premise is a false one Tubby. The peace has not been flawed. Life is flawed - I can't make a cell phone call across the country without being dropped like Nancy Pelosi's skin grafts. It would seem to be a victory though when the only call you were likely to get from across the country 3 years ago was from an executioner.

The truth of the matter is that Iran has taken a vested interest in Iraq. Along with a handful of other parties, they see their future as tied up with the failure of democracy in Iraq. They are doing everything they can to insure that failure. If Iran's success will guarantee your own ability, and Ivins', to say that you were right all along then by all means, root for Iran.

Hey what happened to Fitzmas?

Fitz was in court 3 hours today with the GJ.

V. Novak is lawyered up.

Fitz keeps chipping away. Luskin keeps spinning knots. And no one has come up with any theory to account for the known facts and still absolve the top level in the Bush admin.

Bush is a wimp who was lied to, or he has been lying all along.

Be patient. Plenty more coming.

Tubby,

You are so so so so so so so smart. You should read something for a change instead of squatting behind Howard Dean with two slices of bread waiting for him to have another opinion.

[ht to Sue Donhim, as I too was awestruck]

Wow. I disagree with tubino but that's pretty bad. And I live in NYC, I'm used to hearing nasty shit all day long...

He's holding out for the t-shirt, ace. Mere compliments aren't good enough -- to show our sincerity we've got to put it on cotton with an iron-on printout! I've got my inkjet ready, but no iron-on transfer paper! Well hell, it's not like I'm smart, like I'm tubino, you know. I can't think of everything. Like tubino does.

Everything.

Your premise is a false one Tubby. The peace has not been flawed.

You mean your straw man is made of straw.

The post was about liberals and smarts. The example I gave was about Iraq, and the simple question: who was right, the liberals or the neocons?

Ivins (and many others) was right about the post-invasion situation. The neocons were wrong.

You are just smart enough to try to redefine it to something else.

The news now is that Afghanistan seems to be getting Iraqified, with suicide bombings and more. The situation has deteriorated recently. The bold, stupid invasion of Iraq is damaging US credibility, US military, and US success in Afghanistan.

There's your neocon smarts for you.

Nighty-nite. Someone's done flossing.

An anonymous liberal demands:

Actually I accidentally left that question anonymously. I don't know why I'm so dumb because of it, as I thought See Dubya was serious, and that the Times had reviewed the film and panned the Jesus angle (not actually using the word jeesiosity; I knew that was a joke). It seems entirely possible such a review would appear in the Times. I just wanted to read it, and didn't know if it had possibly been in today's print edition, or part of the new select bullshit, or what.

So what I thought was part joke turns out was all joke, but my assumption was based on another assumption that the NYTimes would negatively review a religious film on its religiosity alone. So I guess it makes me stupid for missing that Dubya was making up the review, but I don't see how it makes me stupid and liberal.

Awww, nuts. Okay, I assumed it was a troll who searched for the word "jeesiosity."

It doesn't make you liberal or stupid to ask about the review.

Everything.

The way to get through the day, Andrea, is to say it like this ...

If I were Tubino, what would I be thinking now?

And then ignore the random noise about financial markets and cosmology and neutrinos and all that God stuff.

Somewhere in there is iron-on transfer paper. But you've got to ask the question ....

Go back to the other thread. I wasn't joking about the tone of the review and there's a link to it now. My synopsis was fake but accurate.

Tubino,
Ok, so the 27000 number is from Iraq body count and 100,000 is from the Lancet study. HRW put the number of executions under Saddam per year to be 30,000 to 40,000. So that looks like anywhere from 75,000 to 100,000 using HRW numbers and math. I also seem to recall that the president of HRW stated that those numbers were not worthy of military intervention. I'm guessing that's acceptable to you. Way to go liberals. I realize that this is all about missing Saddam and wishing he was still there. You're going to have to move on.

Hey, no problem. I can see how my question might make you think I took the quote seriously. Besides, I am a stupid liberal! Gotcha!

(Ok, I don't think I'm stupid, but I am pretty liberal, in a John Stuart Mill kind of way, not a modern democrat kind of way, whatever that is)

You are so so so so so so so smart. You should read something for a change instead of squatting behind Howard Dean with two slices of bread waiting for him to have another opinion.

[ht to Sue Donhim, as I too was awestruck]
Posted by DeeDaGo at December 8, 2005 01:14 AM

Oh my God. I just opinioned my pants reading that.

Molly Ivins was right.

In the short to medium term.

However, we can't compare the current Iraq to a possible future Iraq where Saddm would rule and sanction would be gone.

Sort of off topic:

The USA could have pulled a Balkans and armed the Kurds and Shias and fored Iraq into a civil war where we would be able to pick up the pieces much easier after some years...but at the time we all thought they had WMDs and you wouldn't want a civil war in such a country.

Tubino! Where you been?

Only...ummm...this guy doesn't actually sound like tubino, does he? With the short, spiky posts and the no links and stuff.

Is that really you?

"Okay, I'm the Stupid One. "

That is the first thing acehole has ever said that has any truth to it.

Molly Ivins can make all of the clever generalizations that she wants.

Without the edits, that should read, Molly Ivins can make all the stupid* generalizations that she can get away with the help of idiot leftists who think there's something funny about reading the editiorial opinions of the Socialist Daily Work processed through the 'Dialectizer' internet utility to sound faux-redneck.

Which was Dan Rather's gig for a number of years, before he tried his hand at forgery...

* because It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever.

Thought you might enjoy this research by Cornell University, published by the A P A. ...but I think that their sample group was not nearly random enough.

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

http://www. a p a .org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html

Abstract
People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.

Correction. New link http://www.a p a .org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

Also, earlier I got an warning message for posting content from p a . org when the link was for a p a . org. Please correct your filter.

I don't think it's tubino. Not enough links.

Oh, its him.

Note all the breathless challenges.

LOL! It looks like my Midol depravation has spawned a new meme at AoSHQ.

Can any one of you morons knock this tiresome lefty meme off my shoulder?

Any of you man enough to take me on?

Didn't think so.

Tubino, according to the Brookings Institute, the Iraq per capita income is up 30% from when Saddam was in power and their economy is projected to grow at nearly 17% this year.

Compared to Saddams time there are also 5 times as many cars on the road now, 5 times the telephone subscriptions and 32 times more internet users.

Well, it don't sound like tubino to me. And I should know; I'm under contract to smooch his butt.

But if it is you, tubino, you might want to consider depersonalizing the Personal Web Site That Must Not Be Named. If you're going to argue on the internet, you really should do it under an unGooglable name.

There's no such thing as a stupid question. There are, however, stupid people who ask them.

Nearly 15K US military wounded, many quite badly

Well then, you must be pleased to see the fucking military as you delightfully refer to them, get what it deserves.

Oh, and you are scary-smart.

Scott, that merely proves that America is just destroying another traditional society by exporting its culture of capitalism and consumerism.

Traditional Heshemite torture camps being torn down to build Wal-Marts. Plastic shredders replaced with Chik-Fil-A's. It's horrifying.

If you could fax a tee shirt (I suggest "You're with Smarty McSmartenheimer" or "You just got served"), you could put the entire DNC out of business by sending it along with their talking points every day.

How intelligent is it, really, to bring a crib sheet to every argument that you get into?

Why do liberals think "neocon" is some sort of insult?

Tubino,

You got a link to support your assertion? And on your way can you find out who she likes this weekend in the NFL?

Actually you can skip the latter request. It just occured to me that she has been predicting the fall of the US ever since 2000 because of tax cuts for the rich? How's that particularprediction working out for you?

LION you will find all liberals living in a place right next to NARNIA WITCH whats the place called LION ninnia