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« World's Ugliest Dog, RIP | Main | Man Has Sex With Mannequin »
November 22, 2005

Sexism In The Blogosphere?

Ann Althouse copies a bunch of "anti-feminist" jokes from Atrios, and suggests that Democrats have a long way to go before they can convince her that they're genuine feminists.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like a good slam on Atrios and his commenters as much as the next guy. Well, maybe not as much, because I really have no idea who this idiot is.

But I think there's a certain place for ribbing in life. Women do a lot of ribbing of men -- Maureen Dowd's made a cottage industry of it; she just wrote a book that I've nominated to the Guiness World Records committee as the World's Longest Friendster Profile -- and a lot of that is in good fun, and I roll with it. I think women have to be a little realistic about all of this, too. There's not a war between the sexes, but there's a permanent rivalry, and there's going to be some jibing along the way.

Quite frankly, I think the same thing about "racist" jokes. There are truly racist jokes and then there are jokes with a racial element which aren't racist at all. White liberal commedians get away these all the time; they're assumed to be "just kidding," so it's no harm, no foul. And black commedians -- whoa, nelly. They go to town on this stuff. Again, for what it's worth, I think a lot of black commedians' ribbing of whites is pretty funny. That "Nervous White Guy Voice" that almost every black comic does? It's usually pretty funny. Dave Chappelle does a good one, but a lot of them do funny White Guy Voices.

Hell, I even do a funny Nervous White Guy Voice. It's just a funny bit.

I think a lot of this depends on the "smile when you say that" principle. Is someone saying something really meaning it in a nasty way, are they using the form of humor to say something nasty they really believe but get away with it under the "I was just kidding" pretext, or are they genuinely just joshing around in a good spirit? It's sometimes hard to determine motive, but most of the time it isn't. There's a real bitterness that comes through when someone is just ranking on a sex or race, even if the form of the attack is allegedly "humorous."

I guess my point is: Grow a pair. And be a little more discriminatory in your charges of discrimination; yes, there are, I guess, men who still really have no use for women other than the obvious (plowing the fields, so to speak, and by that, I mean sticking a yoke on them and making them drag a plow through frozen earth for next year's corn plantin'). And there are a lot of people who really have a high degree of racial animus, if not genuine philosophical racism.

But I think most people actually are pretty on board with this whole "tolerance" thing, and one shouldn't declare a jihad on joking in order to stamp out real sexism or real racism. The presumtion should be "kidding" first, not "sexism" or "racism" first, and that presumption should hold absent some good evidence of a real animus or hatred.

Tolerance has to make room for reality, and the reality is that, no matter how committed a tolerant liberal you might be on such matters, there is, and probably will continue to be for a long time, a good deal of rivalry and annoyance between the sexes, races, and sexual orientations. It's not actual hatred; it's just differences, inability to understand where people get some ideas (OJ is innocent, Madonna is an important artist, boots are made for hoardin'), as well as some quite-inevitable quantum of envy and resentment.

Joking is the way humans have sublimated petty resentments into a socially acceptable form of expression for, I'm guessing, 100,000 years or more. Some "jokes" aren't really jokes at all, and some have far too much bitterness and bite in them, but many are pretty harmless and not at all very seriously meant. I really would be loathe to lose some good-spirited playfulness in the cause of securing some utopian vision of races, sexes, and sexual orientations having no differences, disagreements, or disputes between them at all, which, frankly, ain't ever gonna happen.

Even on Star Trek, Data and Worf were made sport of. And that was the 24th Century.

PS: No, I don't really shoot off bottle-rockets and then immediately tell the cops it was "a bunch of Puerto Rican kids." Usually I tell the cops it was a bunch of Chinamen, because you know how those people are with the kung-fu, acrobatics, and fireworks.


posted by Ace at 12:30 PM
Comments



Isn't that kind of shit generally filed under "Satire"?

Posted by: Madfish Willie on November 22, 2005 12:39 PM

That's a pretty crappy, hypersensitive post by Althouse.

But I'll bet Reynolds links it.

Posted by: Slublog on November 22, 2005 12:40 PM

But you've gotta' admit, that whole "blame it on the Puerto Ricans" thing is pretty funny, especially the way they don't understand what the cops are saying and can only respond in that weird devil-tongue language they all use.

Posted by: Blacksheep on November 22, 2005 12:41 PM

Demonstrates a complete lack of humor on both sides.

Posted by: geoff on November 22, 2005 12:42 PM

I have to disagree with you about the Nervous White Guy voice, Ace. It's just not a funny bit. It was annoying when they first started doing it, and it's still annoying and unfunny.

I take that back. Richard Pryor was the first guy to do that, and anything he does is funny. After that, yawn.

Posted by: CraigC on November 22, 2005 12:43 PM

Cop pulls over a blonde driving too fast on the highway. He asks for her license and she freaks out.

"You guys are driving me crazy! If you take my license away one day, how am I supposed to show it to you the next!"

Posted by: lauraw on November 22, 2005 12:46 PM

Chappelle does a good one.

The trouble is that it's a stock bit, done to death, but lesser commedians traffic in lame stock bits.

Good comics can take old tropes and make them laugh out loud funny, just because they're inherently talented.

Posted by: ace on November 22, 2005 12:48 PM

My favorite feminist joke (er joke told by a feminist)

Q: What do you call that useless flap of skin on the end of a penis?

A: A Man.

Posted by: Master of None on November 22, 2005 12:51 PM

As Mr. Garrison once said "I dont trust an animal that bleeds for 5 days and dosent die"

Posted by: isayalotofthings on November 22, 2005 12:55 PM

Seems Althouse has to hyperventilate about women's issues every now-and-again. She wrote a rant during the Roberts confirmation hearing lamenting his choice of baseball-umpire metaphor to explain the role of justices for "making it obvious that the judicial process is just a men's club and women should stay aware" or some other ridiculous crap.

What I couldn't understand was, does Althouse really think women couldn't understand the umpire explanation? Isn't that a bit more insulting to women? It seems to be Roberts used the umpire figure because it's a simple illustration of a judicial philosophy that EVERYBODY can get.

So... yeah...

Hey, Althouse -- bet you can't guess what has two thumbs and loves blowjobs?

Posted by: El Ricko on November 22, 2005 12:55 PM

Is this thread going to become a forum for all of the politically incorrect jokes we know?

Posted by: Slublog on November 22, 2005 12:56 PM

"...plowing the fields, so to speak, and by that, I mean sticking a yoke on them and making them drag a plow through frozen earth for next year's corn plantin'..."

Wow, and here I thought Allah was the resident expert on kinky sex talk.

Posted by: Sobek on November 22, 2005 12:59 PM

Is this thread going to become a forum for all of the politically incorrect jokes we know?

I'm optimistic. As long as they don't tell the stupid 'iron this' joke.

Posted by: geoff on November 22, 2005 01:02 PM

Personally, I think she just likes to bitch everyone in a while. Plus she's got that whole academic, I'm a victim thing going. Was pretty telling that she thought highly of Andrew Dorkin when her death came around.

Posted by: Cutler on November 22, 2005 01:08 PM

*Dworkin

Posted by: Cutler on November 22, 2005 01:12 PM

Thing is, men really do resent the way women use their veto power to control us and I think they're lucky we can still laugh about it. In days of yore, guys got some perks to make up for this inequity, but these days we're as likely to do everything they used to do for us and still get frozen out.

I think if I were a chick I'd laugh along and hope the guys let it go at that.

Posted by: spongeworthy on November 22, 2005 01:12 PM

Cutler - No need to fix the spelling. . . a thought the first one was more appropriate.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale on November 22, 2005 01:15 PM

Still driving around with that bottle of ether in your van, sponge?

Posted by: lauraw on November 22, 2005 01:15 PM

Still driving around with that bottle of ether in your van, sponge?

Hey, who are we to judge how sponge picks up women? Sure, his methods may seem unorthodox, but what works, works.

Posted by: Slublog on November 22, 2005 01:18 PM

"Maureen Dowd's made a cottage industry of it; she just wrote a book that I've nominated to the Guiness World Records committee as the World's Longest Friendster Profile"

Ace, if you thought that one up, you've earned mad props.

As for the racial humor, obviously skin color excuses a lot. For instance, black people can use the N-word and I can't, and my ancestors never even owned a black person (I kid! I kid! See, sarcasm!).

I think much of it comes down to confidence. If you can *confidently* tell a racial joke, you can get away with it. If your audience smells fear, then you're going to bomb, or worse.

I'm thinking of how much press "It" girl Sarah Silverman is getting right now for telling racial jokes that are just plain funny, making her the first funny female comedian in, ohhh, 10,000 years. But she tells them so deadpan, matter-of-factly that nobody can take her seriously. If, however, she approached it cautiously, very conspiratorially, then the jokes wouldn't be funny, just creepy.

Working racial humor is a tough bit. I do it sparingly on my blog, even though in private half my good jokes have to do with making fun of whites, blacks, Chinamen, dot-dot Indians, and smallpox blanket Indians. Oh, and those dirty Mexicans-- can't forget them either. Bottom line, it's just plain hard to communicate to some folks that the *stereotype* is what's funny, and that's what's worth laughing at.

I guess I just really wish I was Dave Chapelle, and could get away with his schtick. Retired asshole.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge on November 22, 2005 01:26 PM

Oh, and those dirty Mexicans-- can't forget them either.

Frickin' gringo pendejo.

You're just lucky I'm only half Mexican and haven't yet mastered the butterfly knife.

Posted by: Slublog on November 22, 2005 01:34 PM

"That's a pretty crappy, hypersensitive post by Althouse.

As far as I am concerned, ALL of Althouse's posts are crappy & hypersensitive. I thought she must be the second coming of sun-tzu or something by the buildup others gave her, and then when 3 months of checking her blog breathlessly for a pearl of wisdom and being disappointed every freakin' day, I gave it up.

I get more cutting analysis and legal information from the drunk on the corner.

Posted by: West on November 22, 2005 01:39 PM

Thats not bragging much, buddy.
Hmph.

Posted by: drunk on the corner on November 22, 2005 01:43 PM

"Is this thread going to become a forum for all of the politically incorrect jokes we know?"

Why not?

Why don't Kentucky high schools teach sex eduction and driver's education on the same day?
It's too hard on the horse.

Posted by: Les Jones on November 22, 2005 01:53 PM

What do West Virginia girls say when they lose their virginity?

"Get off me Dad, yer crushin' my smokes."

Posted by: lauraw on November 22, 2005 02:07 PM
Hell, I even do a funny Nervous White Guy Voice. It's just a funny bit.
Wait, that's a *bit*?
Posted by: someone on November 22, 2005 02:26 PM

Any of you lunkheads think that Althouse was pointing out the hypocrisy and double standard?

Posted by: Bart on November 22, 2005 07:14 PM

Any of you lunkheads think that Althouse was pointing out the hypocrisy and double standard?

Who cares? Why should we buy Althouse's grrrl power schtick when she shrieks like a 50s housewife seeing a mouse every time her inner feminist is offended?

Posted by: Edward R. Murrow on November 22, 2005 07:21 PM
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