Color me cynical, but I suspect she's only interested in controlling the influx of anyone who'd potentially vote Republican.

Well, I dunno. Hispanics still only vote 35% Republican, which means the more Hispanics, the better for the Democrats.

There is a tension among blacks and Latinos, over basic stuff like competition for jobs and dislocations in neighborhoods (always friction between the long-time inhabitants of a neighborhood and recent immigrants) and, I think, the political muscle of the Hispanic community, which has already eclipsed the muscle of the black community and will probably one day become the largest minortiy population in the US, ahead of non-Hispanic whites.

If I have to cut checks and jump through hoops for the USCIS to benefit my foreign national wife; everydamnbody should. The operative word in all this is ILLEGAL alien.

Ah yeah, I DO love the smell of Grade A BS.

If the polls tell them to, ALL of these liberals are going to start SAYING that.

And NONE of them are going to DO anything effective about it.

And when some Repulbican actually tries to do something effective, s/he/they will be RACIST.

"It's the same ol' S***, man." -- Brett, Alien

Later,
bbeck

Waters' endorsed the LA riots and didn't give a shit about when hispanics were attacking white people, nor did she care when blacks attacked greatly outnumbered hispanics with impunity, but now when it is her group that is becoming outnumbered and beginning to lose the war of violence suddenly she condemns violence and is a born again border controller! How can it be denied that Liberal race politics haven't led to a new tribalism?

And ironically, now that the Republicans are playing race politics themselves by courting Hispanics, Waters ought to remember that it was Liberals who started race politics in this country and have kept it alive and enflamed it as much as they could all these years and to counter this conservatives must get hispanics before Liberals do and are doing well at it. That is probaly what she's most angry about!

As Ann Coulter says: it's all Liberals' fault.

Mad Maxine?

*gasp* This is the big one! I'm coming Elizabeth . . .

---^---^---^-----^--------^-----_______________________*beeeeeeeee*

It was more than a little surprising to learn that Maxine Waters had actually said something I could agree with.

But after I picked myself up off the floor and changed my pants, I realized that bbeck is right. This is a useful club to whack the administration with, but it doesn't logically follow that the Democrats will actually sign on to *any* measure that addresses the problem, much less present any proposals of their own. The Dems have favored dual US/Mexican citizenship and welfare benefits for illegals, and they tacitly favor illegals voting. It will take more than Waters mouthing a talking point to convince me they've changed.

exactly, Utron. If we can't convince the daddy party to do something about this, why would we expect the mommy party to do anything?

Ace:

"I think, the political muscle of the Hispanic community, which has already eclipsed the muscle of the black community and will probably one day become the largest minortiy population in the US, ahead of non-Hispanic whites."

I can say this with total confidence and the with the expertise of being Hispanic, can I put that on my resume, anyway... This concept of yours is good except for one flaw. Hispanics are not unified.

Black's are not concerned with the hispanic muscle, not yet. Unlike blacks who the majority of share a common heritage, African. Blacks can unite behind one ideal, "The White Man is Bad"

Hispanics have been lumped into this ridiculously general category comprised of folks with VERY different ideas and societies. There is a HUGE difference between a Mexican and a Puerto Rican or Cuban.

Let's say for arguments sake we are talking about Mexicans because they comprise the lump of Latinos/Hispanics in America. You have heard of LULAC right? It is a giant cluster fuck. Has been for eons. There is more infighting and backstabbing in that organization than in a fucking beauty salon.

Mexicans, of which I proudly proclaim myself, tend to lose their minds when they get into politics or positions of power. I was not a huge Cisneros fan, I live in SA and see that hulking monstrosity called the Alamo Dome that is his legacy that is sucking the city dry, but that is not for now. Cisneros was fast tracked to be the first Latino in the whitehouse. Brilliant man. Good famliy. Groomed from the cradle to be President. He was brought down by his dick. Then it was found out his dick was in a white chick. A very white chick. Final insult.

I would be willing to bet money that the story was leaked by a fellow hispanic. There is a certain pettiness that is pervasive in the Hispanic political community. Our leaders are just to tear them down it seems.

Ad this to the seemingly weekly meltdown of the LULAC, the only organization with any notoriety and the Salma Hayeks of the community who kneel at the temple of Che it gives you nothing. Chicano power, blah blah blah.

The vote comes down to the same way it is with white folks. The wealthier, usually the Cubans and some Mexicans vote Republican. The majority of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and the rest of the lot vote Democrat because they tend to live lower on the money chart. Class warfare works great.

There would have to be a huge change in the economic situation of Mexicans in this country to benefit the conservatives and I think that is a big part of why push is so pro hispanic. Immigration hits close to home with more mexican households than not.

Granted it doesn't effect mine so I do not have that point of view. My grandfather was from mexico, but my grandmother's family had been in texas for several generations. We are in ways more Texan than Mexican if that makes sense.

I actually think the NAACP will eventually gobble up the hispanic vote as fellow people of color because they can organize and steer the ship without mutiny once a week.

Last week I got one of those big GOP surveys from Ken Mehlman's office, the 8 or 9 page version (how do I get on these lists?).

Didn't bother with any of the questions, all I wrote in the "anything else you think is important" comment field was "get serious about protecting our borders".

I dunno, Ace, as New Yorkers we do get the offsetting benefit of lower wage costs for restaurants and the like...

The net, I'm sure, varies by tax bracket.

This is big issue in California. Arnold is getting slammed for saying CLOSE the border. Senator Boxer is coming to his defense!

Just before the last election, John and Ken at KFI in L.A. had a regular show... Political Survivor. Basically, they had Republican Reps. Dryer, Bono, Cunningham, etc. come on and explain their view on illegal immigration. The went after Asa Hutchinson for stopping round-ups for illegals at companies who were hiring illegals. Rep. David Dryer being on the lossing end. He ended up winning his seat. BUT he had to spend a LOT OF MONEY to keep it. And his district is supposed to be a LOCK for him. Californians, no matter what the MSM says, don't want anymore illegal immigration.

Jennifer, excellent points about the notion of the "Hispanic voting bloc." The whole idea seems to be an attempt to construct a voting group based on race or ethnicity as opposed to shared values, interests, background, or experiences; yet another example of Democrat identity politics. The "Asian voting bloc" is a similar patchwork beast, and the farther left you move on the political spectrum, the more people buy into it.

One difference between blacks as a racial voting bloc and the others is the shared historical experience, which trumps a pretty wide divergence in economic status, education and so forth. That's probably going to change--recent immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa don't automatically identify politically with the African-American community. But the notion that Hispanic voters form a bloc that's somehow equivalent to black voters is one of the many idiocies that have shaped immigration policy and other issues where the Republicans are trying to court a "voting bloc" that's basically chimerical.

Chimerical... what a fantastic word to use. Thanks for the response Utron it makes my point for me which much more eloquence.

I dunno, Ace, as New Yorkers we do get the offsetting benefit of lower wage costs for restaurants and the like...

Cheap wages are just the tip of the iceberg. There are studies that purport that the gross effect of illegals is a huge loss due to health, housing, education, welfare costs of illigals not to mention policing and the costs of crime. There are other studies that claim the opposite is true, that because they don't draw social security while paying into it and other taxes illegals are a net gain. Living in Texas, I must say that I really like Mexicans, they're good catholics and they work like americans haven't done since they were immigrants. And the more educated they become the more conservative they become.

But my guess is that illegals are a net loss. I have no proof other than the fact that when I did a report on the finances of NYC when the city was broke, I came to a very startling conclusion: the city was broke by the amount it took to house, clothe, feed and provide medical care to its welfare population, and yet no one was saying so! No "investigative reporter" no politician, no one stated this truth when it had to known to many. It was as if it were verboten to speak this truth! And it never did become public knowledge. The real costs of illegals may be very hidden.

Remember, the Dems wake up each morning, see what side of an Issue Bush is on, and then take the opposite side of the issue.

Let me know when we have an issue Maxine Waters and Bush agree on, I'll go put the the kettle on for the 4 horsement due shortly after.

Alternatively, she is more interested in maintaining blacks as the majority minority. When I say minority, I'm using PC speak here to refer to non-whites. If latinos eclipse blacks as the biggest minority then they become the issue, not blacks.

I know lots of blacks and mexicans and being around so many mexicans I tried to learn a little spanish and it became a habit. To my surprise, when I said it to the blacks they got mad, and yet they couldn't admit why they were mad! They weren't used to having to shut they're traps about race matters and they still aren't! It really is funny. Ola!

It's true that all nations must have some sort of border control. This is easy for short borders or borders based on large bodies of water. However, our border with Mexico is problematic, in part due to the fact that it is in the interest of the Mexican government not to respect our borders.

So, we could fortify one area, only to find the traffic on the other side of the boder increasingly funnel people to the less protected areas. We cannot afford on our side to leave as a buffer vast areas of desert uninhabited, so these people once they breach the border, will be able to filter into the country.

We could build a guarded wall, but the manpower to monitor and enforce would be high even with remote sensing.

Certainly by spending more in this direction, we could limit the numbers of illegals, but we could not stop them all unless we built something akin to the Isreali-Palestinian wall. Do we want to do this?

Alternatively, we could move to eventually annex Mexico. This would be ultimately in our best interest.

Put me down for option II.