Pity the planes didn't hit Bezerkly -- would have been a two-fer.

Blame for the 'suffering that is expected' -

ummmmmmm ... is it too much to ask that the suffering actually occur before we assign blame to Bush?

And, since we're talking future tense, could we find out whether the Left intends to blame the looters for any looting that takes place?

Seriously, Bill, do we have to get into Michael Moore territory and wish for Al Qaeda to have struck people who commit the sin of not voting the way we like?

You know, Karl Rove's Death-Weather Satellite was manufactured in Israel, using the blood of Christian and Muslim children. You wouldn't believe all of the uses there are for goyim children blood. It's like baking soda and aspirin. Except with, you know, more kidnapping and murder.

Bush causes hurricanes and they dare to oppose him? The Fools! Their end will be slow and painful as his mighty wrath unfolds.

The only criticisms I've seen are that the Bush administration cut funds for disaster relief in the New Orleans area. This might be what hysterical conservatives are thinking as they rush to erect strawman arguments.

Yes Bill, its self proclaimed liberals who are busy blaming Bush for this but it is Conservatives who are beyond the pale for "rushing to create strawman". Tell me, is it some genetic defect that allows you to always jump the first step in favor of the response?

Bill, I like the cut of your jib. Intelligent responses to these stupid conservatives who just don't get it. By the way, I have a deal I am offering only to intelligent liberals like yourself. I will have my partner contact you. He is a former Nigerian general who needs assistance on a large cash transfer. No risk involved.

The only criticisms I've seen are that the Bush administration cut funds for disaster relief in the New Orleans area.

As you're so fond of saying, I'd really like to see documentation on that. The only stories I can find is that the administration recommended a cut to disaster preparedness funds, not disaster relief funds.

But hey, when it comes to Bush, any lie will do, right?

LOOTERS == "liberators"

They liberate stuff from the forces of oppression to support the proletariat revolution.

Sublog, it wasn't a lie. My intelligence apparatus let me down and gave me questionable information, but I decided to go with it anyway as if it were solid information. That's OK with you, right?

Bill - that was pretty good. Got to give you credit for that one.

But you didn't answer the question.

I think this is the most mendacious administration in U.S. history. They've misrepresented policy, lied about government studies, lied about the intent of legislation, lied to congress about the cost of legislation, lied to congress about their intent with respect to the war, lied to congress about giving them justification for the war, lied to the American public about the state of Social Security and healthcare, lied about their standards with respect to the Plame affair, lied about Airforce One being under attack and lied to the public about what they knew prior to 9-11. They've lied about big things and small things and they've done it from the moment they took office and slurred the previous administration with a phony hoax about the Whitehouse being trashed. The only republicans with the stones to call them on anything have been slurred. It's a national disgrace that will be remembered in the history books.

Is this screed supposed to distract from the baseless assertion you made earlier?

Hey Bill, you intelligence apparatus is on the fritz again.

Bill, that's great. Nice rant.

But that still doesn't count as documentation.

Bill, sounds like business as usual to me, or do you still believe that the sun shines from any ass that votes democrat?

Of course, it makes it so much harder for the left to make the case when they are so willing to embrace liars both within the party and within those that share their agenda.

Oh, and Bill, if you are going to pull that 'my intelligence machine let me down' excuse, you can only do it on issues in which the whole world is already in agreement.

The discussion thus far:

Bill: Bush is cutting disaster relief funds.

Us: Prove it.

Bill: WMDs! Bush lied, people died!

Us: Um, that's not really proof.

Bill: Bush is a big fat liar! Plame! My Pet Goat! Halliburton!

Us: Bill, you're not really making sense.

Bill: *crickets*

Sublog,

This seems to be the trend with the leftist trolls. It amuses me to no end that they freely toss about the word "liar" in describing President Bush, but don't have the integrity to concede a point when someone clearly disproves one of their assertions.

Instead they disappear to some other comment section and start all over again. It really gets fun when they start tag-teaming the same thread. Troll A makes a stupid assertion and is shown he is wrong. Troll A disappears. Troll B shows up further down and makes the same baseless assertion.....wash, rinse repeat.

.....wash, rinse repeat.

Obiously no starch.

Re: Bill and "liar"

It's called projection

According to the New Orleans Business Magazine, the Army corps of Engineers identified $147 Million worth of hurricane and flood relief projects which would not be funded by the Bush administration. In addition, according to AP, one of the problems Louisiana is having is that there are hardly any National Guard troops left to help the population as they should be doing. So, there are two of the problems people are talking about which are related to Bush administration policy. And, notice please, posters, that I was able to make an argument without resorting to namecalling.

Projects not receiving funds are not the same as funds being cut, as you asserted earlier.

Link?

And Bill, why are you asserting that Louisiana is having problems providing enough reservists to help in hurricane relief when earlier you argued that this was just a stupid straw man argument that conservatives used to deflect from more legitimate criticisms coming from the left?

First you said:
The only criticisms I've seen are that the Bush administration cut funds for disaster relief in the New Orleans area. This might be what hysterical conservatives are thinking as they rush to erect strawman arguments.

Then you said:
one of the problems Louisiana is having is that there are hardly any National Guard troops left to help the population as they should be doing.

Which position are you taking? I'm having a hard time figuring it out.

Also, Bill, please explain to me why, if there is a shortage, only half of Louisiana reservists have been deployed for hurricane relief.

Warden, the general position I'm taking is that the Bush administration are a pack of liars and that their budget priorities are out of wack. They're not spending money on American people, they're spending money on war profiteers. And, if you're not aware of the glaring fact that this administration has ruined the National Guard, you're just not paying attention.

So, contrary to your first comment on the matter, you admit that Ace's post was accurate. Correct?

Warden, I don't even know which post you're talking about. Is Ace the person who runs this site?

Guys, I think we should all just back off Bill. He's a little s-l-o-w.

Well then help me out here. It seems to me that the $147 million that is about what we spend in Iraq in 2 days would have been better spent protecting the citizens of New Orleans from hurricane flooding. But, this administration's priorities are fighting a war in Iraq to help bring about an Iranian-style Islamic republic there. I think their priorities are all wrong.

Bill,

Listen, worm. I'm not playing this stupid fucking game with you. You come over here and throw around assertions that you can't support. When challenged on them you move on to a different unsupported talking point without ever addressing the fact that you couldn't back up the last one.

Standard operating proceedure for dishonest little fucks like yourself. You're just tiresome, really.

Don't try to evade the question, Warden !

Who is this "Ace" person ?

Is he Rove's liaison to you guys ?

"Pity the planes didn't hit Bezerkly -- would have been a two-fer."

HEy!!!!!\
What about us trying to bring it down from within?
(looking at the GG bridge, thinkin' bout Giuliani)

Sorry, that was me.

Tin soldiers and Rumsfeld's comin'.

rudycan'tfail

And, notice please, posters, that I was able to make an argument without resorting to namecalling.

Or linking. Pretty much a wash on the Veracity Scale.

Sorry Bill, it's hard to take you serious since your claim that the National Guard memos were real. That's not a sip of KoolAid, that's the whole jug.

I don't think we should be arguing with an educated liberal like Bill who uses words like "mendacious" that we all have to look up. Let's just admit that we're out of our league.

Yeah! What Michael said. Bill is too nuanced for me. I'm very afraid that if I ever understand what he's trying to say my head might explode.

Hmm, tried posting and keep getting a message saying it won't post due to questionable content. No curse words or sexually suggestive words or obvious spam words.

...

Klytus (Dick Cheney): "Most effective, your majesty!Will you destroy this...earth?"
Ming the Merciless ("W"): "Later! I like to play with things awhile...before annihilation."

I'm very afraid that if I ever understand what he's trying to say my head might explode.

I'm thinking that if either one of us actually got a look at Lipstick's feet, our heads would explode.

Letter to Editor, Minneapolis Star Tribune

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5585417.html

Not home to help

Thanks to President Bush and his unjust and ill-conceived war in Iraq, there are about a thousand fewer Army National Guard members in Louisiana to help in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Isn't the point of the National Guard to protect us at home and help out in natural disasters?

Barney Peterson, Minneapolis.

Good old Barney - that didn't take long did it?

This is my theory about Bill...

Bill is probably NOT a flesh and blood human being.

Bill is probably an auto-posting AI program.

Bill's ability to pass a Turing test remains to be demonstrated.

I'm with you Tony. 'Bill' is no doubt an elaborate inference engine powered by a Prolog rendering of the DNC daily talking points memo.

Based on that rationale, we shouldn't have gotten involved in World War II either. Hey, if those troops had been needed for tornado relief in Kansas in 1943, or a Florida hurricane in 1944, then it would've been all FDR's fault, right?

Idiots...

i googled new orleans disaster relief scammers with my destination being this thread .. the discussion being what is well known .. that bush is a criminal.

Any ideas on a fast track to punish him of behalf of katrina victims?

For you guys that think Bush didn't cut any money please read this
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1473789/posts
Also I find it so hard to believe people support a man who doesn't care about the American public at all. He has cut health care, and education, at a time when thoes sectors are so under funded it's scary. It's what $25,000 a year for tuition costs in America and it's $4,000 in Canada, you don't think that's a little messed up? Also the administration fires people who try to warn them about bad ideas, i.e. the General who said the war would cost more than 200 Billion, and was fired for it, cause the administration was saying it would only be 50 Billion, what's the total cost now over 300 Billion?, and that doesn't included what the gov, is paying for in grants to rebuild Iraq. Can you guys even name something that Bush has put money into that helps the American public? Bush has screwed over America and all you guys can say is thank you sir, may I have another.

Hm. You're well-named, anyway.

Hows about you spend your time and money doing something useful?

wow great reply, you sure addressed the comments I made.
/ sarcasm

So, Jerky, you're upset that we aren't responding to your off-topic, rambling spewage of a bunch of partisan talking points. We've already read your linked piece, and there are comments on its content throughout this thread. Don't walk in, dump a bunch of trash, and expect us to clean it up. If you really want someone to address your 'comments,' then why don't you pick a single point to start from, rather than combining Katrina, education, health care, the war on terror, and the domestic budget into one mini-rant?

I would have thought it would be pretty obvious how thoes points relate, they all have to do with how poorly the American gov spends it's money, and in case you still don't see it. the gov does not spend tax payers money on taxpayers at all. If you wanna just stick to the lack of funds for NO I can't really say to much more cause I haven't really seen anyone here bash the facts in the article, I've just seen people personally attack Bill. 

wow great reply, you sure addressed the comments I made.

Sorry, I don't debate with seagulls.

It's amazing how we can send our military and national guard to Iraq to fight and die, but we can't seem to get them to New Orleans to help our own citizens. This is what happens when you have a President who's too concerned with destroying other countries to take care of his own country. Perhaps, if the people in New Orleans were rich or had lighter skintones President Bush would actually do something to help them.

Great, you got the memo. Nice job.

The civic ignorance of the left continues to amaze.

Who controls the power of the purse in the US governmental system?

Why, Bush/Rove of course.

I can't imagine why this hasn't already been tossed out, because I, a faithful reader of a blog like AoS, finally found the Story of George Bush and the Hurricane here:
http://kos.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/30/155725/944

The Time-Picayune page they keep referring to looks sorta blank. I don't know if it's a problem with my computer or...

Hey,

It must be real cozy for all you right-wingnuts living in Bush la la land, while thousands of Americans, not born with a silver spoons in their mouth, suffer. Everything Bill said was right on. This administration has screwed up priorities, and the federal response to this disaster has been an unmitigated disgrace. Six thousand Lousiana National Guard troops are deployed in Iraq. Maybe you and your buddy, Bush, will step into reality for a moment, and bring them home to actually do what they're supposed to do: guard this nation.

Wow btmbm, it only took you single paragraph to show that you know nothing of demographics, politics, government, disaster management, or the war. Commendably terse.

There are thousands more LA guard still at home.

BUSH DOES NOT, AND CAN NOT CONTROL THEM.

THEY HAVE *NOT* BEEN FEDERALIZED.

THEY ARE 100% UNDER CONTROL OF THE LA GOVERNOR.

*ALL* NON FEDERALIZED GUARD UNITS ARE UNDER CONTROL OF THEIR RESPECTIVE GOVERNORS. PERIOD.

The LA governor has been profoundly inept in activating the considerable resources she has at her disposal.

Gone With the Wind - Scarlet: "As God is my witness they're not going to lick me. I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be hungry again. No, nor any of my folk. If I have to LIE, STEAL, CHEAT or KILL. As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again."

Can anyone really be shocked at the behavior of those thirsty, starving and swimming in feces in New Orleans? Regardless of their ability or choice to leave. They are humans. We have put people on the moon. After 4 days, why can't we get these people food and water? As a freshman in college ten years ago I studied the fact that New Orleans was morbidly threatened. I watched the TV Sunday night and told my friend whose parents fled the fish-bowl city, "I'm sorry." I lived in Houston in 1983 through Alicia, a category 3, and I knew what was about to happen. I wish people didn't have such short term memories. I also wish that those who are intelligent and have the wherewithal to make changes would step up and demand that precautions are taken. Maybe I feel a little guilty myself.

Why are we letting our own people suffer? On many levels, I am intensely concerned about the future of our country as a superpower. There is nothing super about the reality of today. It costs $65 to fill my tank. How will this affect airfare? Shipping costs? Electricity bills? This will push up companies' costs and thus prices of everything (everything except salaries). The real estate bubble is about to burst. What the hell is going on?

It doesn't matter who is at fault - we must be forward thinking. What matters is what we (as a country) need to do, right now, to turn this boat around. Left or right, rich or poor. Something needs to be done and it needs to be done quickly. The fact is... there is always a superpower. If it is not us, it will be someone else (and that someone is always on our tail). And, if the superpower ends up as someone else, we will NOT enjoy the same level of freedom, not life as we know it today, period. And no matter what anyone says, the fact that I have the freedom to write this speaks volumes about our country and the life we have had the liberty to enjoy. But I'm worried. I think it is atrocious that people are still suffering after 4 days along the Gulf. Make no mistake about it, things can and quite possibly could get shockingly worse - and I'm not the only one of this mindset.

Bye the way, I am not a Christian, although I did include a quote with "God" in it.

Well, Claire, it took us a decade to get to the moon. And it was a lot drier there.

Say, speaking of short memories, anybody else remember the day or so between Katrina's landfall and the subsequent breaking of the levees? You know, when everybody was ragging on the newsmedia for exaggerating the power of the storm, which really hadn't been that bad, after all? See, there's a reason you don't fully mobilize until you know what's needed. Overdoing it has nearly as many political consequences as underdoing it. The professional fingerpointers fully mobilize every time.

Shut the hell up right and left wingers and get them food and water now.

S. Weasel, gimme 5 minutes in a locked room with you and you'll see things in a whole new light. ;-)

FYI - it took about 3 days for the first guard troops to appear after Andrew.

Right now some relief/evac appears to be there but not deployed due to some HUMAN SLIME (who need to be terminated with extremem prejudice ASAP) shooting at FEMA and evac volunteers.

I saw a vid showing ~100 private volunteer boats ready to go and in the water. FEMA told them to stand down because the first group in was attacked.

The sheriff should have deputized them all on the spot, distributed weapons to any who were willing to go in armed, then let'em go in.

This is a situation that calls for thinking "outside the box". The governor could simply have ordered up an armed LANG Apache/Cobra as escort for these volunteer boats. No common punk is going to screw with an Apache/Cobra...for very long at least.

IMO, she doesn't have the nerve to do what needs to be done. Now her hand has been forced by circumstance and the initial steps remain tentative.

It's getting there now, S.U.A.G.T.F.A.W.N.

If you watch CNN, you wouldn't think so. They've industriously sent reporters to any part of the city where there are no relief efforts to ask the important question, "If we could get here, why not aid?" If you watch Fox, you can see the Guard loading people into trucks and helicopters and meals being served inside the dome. Watch ten minutes of each and it's probably an accurate picture: help arriving slowly, but arriving nonetheless. Though it's easier to take the Fox version, and their reporters are wearing their grownup faces.

Your an Apostate fool weasel, Your gonna answer to He who you claim to represent and so is BUSH.

We're all going to answer to the Flying Spaghetti Monster some day, S.U.A.G.T.F.A.W.N. Testify!

Don't use my name in vain.

It's Jesus saves, Not bush saves and your not acting very Christ Like and Neither is he.

How's that for testimony!

Now I see how you and Bush and Fox news see God.

"Flying Spaghetti Monster"

You susgested the false Christian News channel Fox.

Just a simple question:

Where is the emergency relief and plans that we have been told have been developed and worked on since September 11th. What if this was a terrorist attack...a dirty bomb...a biological attack...where is the support and the help we have been told that is there. I understand this is a natural disaster of extreme proportions and my heart goes out to those who are suffering. However, I question our leader and the administration who got elected telling us that they will ready us for any attack, protect us from being attacked. Is it not clear that the plans aren't there!!!

Just a thought!

"Just a simple question"

And a simple answer; ask the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans. They alone are responsible for having an emergency management and disaster recovery plan. Don't drink the kool aid my friend. Think for yourself.

What does FEMA stand for dude?
Quit your lying BrewFan.

They alone are responsible for having an emergency management and disaster recovery plan

And now look at Nagin - taking profanity-laced potshots at the feds for not 'doing something.' Is the mayor in New Orleans an elected position with power, or just a figurehead?

Cause right now, I'm thinking figurehead.

FEMA is responsible for coordinating a federal response, not coming up with worst-case scenarios and plans for each individual city. They do some of that, but work with state and local agencies to make sure aid is distributed.

How do you expect a city/state that has been ravaged by a natural disaster (or it could be an attack) to handle it on their own. We are the United States of America for a reason! We are supposed to have the support from the Federal Government when such disaster strikes. IT was this President who has been claiming he has the plans in place to handle such disaster.

How do you expect a city/state that has been ravaged by a natural disaster (or it could be an attack) to handle it on their own. We are the United States of America for a reason! We are supposed to have the support from the Federal Government when such disaster strikes. IT was this President who has been claiming he has the plans in place to handle such disaster.

Each city is supposed to have a disaster preparedness plan in place. The reason the government does that is because it stands to reason that state and local officials best know how to marshall resources, evacuate their cities, etc.

It's called federalism. Bush doesn't have a big file cabinet in the Oval Office called "DISASTERS" that he can just pull a file out of called "CAT 4 HURRICANE: NEW ORLEANS PLANS"

http://www.fema.gov/

Lets get to studying just what FEMA is responsible for, Shall we

"Lets get to studying just what FEMA is responsible for, Shall we"

Take your time. We'll be here when you're done.

Awww...you included my name in yours. That's sweet. I'm touched.

Anyway, I checked the website and the role of FEMA is to assist governments in the planning process, not do it for them.

Bush and his administration should have general plans in place to face any national emergency. This is a national emergency...it is affecting several states and is affecting our economy. There should have been plans in place to get people, supplies, food, and other resources to any area within an extremely short period of time. This should fall on the federal government. The city did and acted on its plans to evacuate people and put people into the superdome...but it is now the federal gov't that needs to come in and help from this point...It is clear that the federal government has failed and Bush himself has acknowledged this, stating his disatisfaction in the speed of relief.

No Problem and Thanks.
I wouldn't take your word for anything.

Bush and his administration should have general plans in place to face any national emergency. This is a national emergency...it is affecting several states and is affecting our economy. There should have been plans in place to get people, supplies, food, and other resources to any area within an extremely short period of time. This should fall on the federal government. The city did and acted on its plans to evacuate people and put people into the superdome...but it is now the federal gov't that needs to come in and help from this point...It is clear that the federal government has failed and Bush himself has acknowledged this, stating his disatisfaction in the speed of relief.

The city failed in a lot of respects, and it's the extent of those failures, as well as the completely unprecedented nature of this disaster, that has led to the current situation.

But you're changing the subject.

We were talking about the responsibilities of a local government in the creation of a disaster plan and FEMA's role in the process. At this point, I should inform you that I have a degree in public administration/organizational management and love talking bureaucracies, budgets and strategic plans, so let's see what you've got.

"I wouldn't take your word for anything"

A wise decision. My suggestion is you apply it to everyone though because those whose word you are taking have led you astray.

I'm talking about what happens when a city has been destroyed. How do you expect a city to plan for such an event. You have been the one changing subjects...you have not once looked at what the role of the Federal Government is and what help it should be providing. Instead you put everything onto a local government that would never have the resources for such an event.

Lots of people have degrees in public admin/org mgmt. Do you think that makes everything you say correct.

Lots of people have degrees in public admin/org mgmt. Do you think that makes everything you say correct.

No, but it means at least I'm not talking out of my squeakhole on this stuff. I'm writing a longer response now.

More to come...

Your Human credentials don't impress me at all.
All it means to me is that you know how to exploit the system.

Quiet. I'm writing...

What do you do now that you have that degree. I find experiance is much greater than just a degree. I have several degrees myself...but I have learned more in the business and real world then I ever have learned in the classroom.

Hey...writing...

And you're right about experience vs. degrees. But there's nothing like a good base of knowledge, right?

Several degrees? Impressive.

In the mean time while you try to baffle us with your words and education to try and make us think we don't know anything. People are dying.

Shut_Up_and_get_them_food_and_Water_now

"Your Human credentials don't impress me at all"

ET?

In the mean time while you try to baffle us with your words and education to try and make us think we don't know anything. People are dying.

Shut_Up_and_get_them_food_and_Water_now

Hey, I only brought up my education to let you guys know that you're in for some fun. I love this stuff. I'm not trying to impress anyone.

Trust me, this stuff doesn't exactly make for scintillating party conversation.

Plus, I've written my checks to aid organizations already. I'm in Maine. What do you want me to do? Fly down and start handing out food?

"Shut_Up_and_get_them_food_and_Water_now"

Seeing as you're the one here who's achieved intergalactic travel shouldn't this be your job?

Hey, I have "Human" credentials.

Sweet.

Back to writing now...

Well good debate...I can't wait for your response. Hopefully people in New Orleans will get the help they need from somewhere and soon!

Your major role of the federal government, and the emergency management agency in particular, is to coordinate and manage aid in a disaster situation. FEMA very rarely, if ever, provides direct disaster assistance – usually that comes from the non-governmental charity organizations such as the Red Cross.

Now, the federal government may have general plans for getting the aid in the general area of a disaster in terms of its ability to coordinate transportation, but it is dependent upon the state and local government to figure out where the aid is to be distributed. That’s why the lower levels of government are tasked with coming up with disaster plans – they know their region better than anyone on the federal level, and their help in these situations is usually invaluable.

What New Orleans should have had in place was a series of shelters, an organized evacuation plan, and already-established distribution points for aid. The mayor and local officials are responsible for coming up with this plan and communicating it to its citizens. To be fair to them, the extent of this disaster is huge – many of those distribution points are likely underwater.

But that’s what plans are for – to worst-case a situation and come up with alternatives and plan B’s. In this case, the city government obviously didn’t have a plan B, as all the mayor seems capable of doing right now is hyperventilating and swearing on call-in interviews to media outlets. I would submit that his anger is a form of projection and defensiveness, as he knows he and his city administration screwed up pretty badly, but that’s for later. Suffice it to say that it seems the city government of New Orleans was not adequately prepared to deal with a crisis of this magnitude. Which, given the amount of knowledge they had about what a storm like Katrina could do, seems irresponsible and I hope some in that city start asking hard questions of their local and state governments.

So then the argument becomes, “but if it’s this huge, then the feds should take over, right?” You seem to believe it’s the role of FEMA, as a representative of the federal government, to swoop in, know the situation right away and start handing out bottles of water. That is a fallacy. When FEMA arrived, they should have been met with state and local officials who are able to tell them what has been done so far, what the situation is on the ground and where organizations like the Red Cross and Salvation Army can be sent to do the most good.

So basically, federal plans to deal with this are general and dependent upon the ability of the state and local governments to know what’s going on in their own communities. When one part of this machine breaks down, it results in a situation like what’s happening in New Orleans.

Another objection – ‘But what about the plans in case of disaster like a terrorist attack?’ Good question, but again, the federal government can only go so far with its knowledge of a particular community before it is again dependent upon the local officials who know their city and state better.

The federal government is a huge, lumbering organization that can do big stuff like move tons of food and water from points A, B and C to point D and help communities plan for the worst. At some point, the city or state in question is responsible for ensuring they have a plan in place to help the government do what it does best – the big stuff so that the small stuff – actually putting a bottle of water or an MRE in the hand of a victim – is done in a timely fashion.

While your trying to force States to take Responsibility, People are dying for it.

Hard lesson to learn at the expense of the People isn't it?
Politics on Both sides are to blame for the effort or lack of it, to get this under control now.

You and Bush to me, seem to indicate that this is a lesson for the States to step up while more is being done to play politics to prove this point then is being done to help the people get food and water and medical now.
This shouldn't be an excuse for the much needed help NOW.

Same Argument was being used for getting our Borders under control, but in the mean time Terrorist might have got in with dirty bombs and now the people are dying for you all to prove to the States and the People Not the Federal Government should be taking responsibility for this.

I think I will restudy our Constitution and Bill of Rights again.

Sad lesson for us all isn't it?

Oh, I see.

You're not actually interested in the facts of how these systems are supposed to work.

Silly me. For a moment there, it almost seemed as though you could sing more than one note.

Guess I won't make the same mistake twice. Have a nice day.

Your frustration is shared by everyone here - nobody wants the suffering in New Orleans to continue. But neither do we want people who understand nothing of the various levels' of government delineation of responsibility to blindly criticize the federal government. That's not constructive or productive, and in its own way is distracting to the relief efforts.

Slublog - excellent summary.

Food and water guy...

Maybe you should study the constitution again:

Amendment 10
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Hey, wait a minute, these guys who are arguing that Bush should run in and take over Louisiana - aren't they the same ones who screamed about the Schiavo bill that Bush signed violated state's rights and the rule of law?

Oh, I guess you have to be a certain color or socioeconomic status for a lefty to "care" about you. Just being human and being in danger aren't enough.

I'll bet none of them have given one red (LOL! I said red!) cent to help anyone in New Orleans or Mississippi.

Slublog that was a great post, but just because the NO admin. screwed up does not take all the blame off the federal government. Bottom-line is that federal money that was suppose to help with the levees didn't get to NO, and considering that flooding is what’s causing most of the trouble with the evacs and getting supplies to people, maybe had they received more than just 10% of their budget, they hole in the levees would have been smaller/more manageable or not have happened at all.

Thanks, but are we back to the levees now?

I think both FEMA and the NO government are doing a terrible job, and I fully expect to see the head of FEMA fired after this is all over.

The major problem with the levee money is that Congress, when it appropriates funds for construction, puts deal-making above prioritizing, so you have the largest amounts of cash going to the most powerful in Congress - Lott, Byrd, Snowe, etc.

But let's face the facts - NO has been getting federal money for that system for decades and has done nothing substantial to shore up what are basically dirt dams.

Seems to that the "dirt dams" held up fine for pervious natural disasters. The reason I'm back on the levees topic is from the way I see it it's the cause of most of the hardships people are having in NO. If the levees would have held the damage Katrina would have done, would have been minimal for a cat 4 hurricane. Instead levees broke, now people are starving, dying and going nuts in NO. Don't get me wrong I believe that NO did a bad job in preparation of Katrina, it’s horrible at how may points of failure there were in the gov from local to federal, in all kinds of places (funding, prep, speed of execution), but the most horrible thing IMO is that the federal gov would under fund an important project that protects the lives for at least 500,000 people. It makes me wonder what other important projects at home are being massively under funded because of this administrations messed up priorities.

Seems to that the "dirt dams" held up fine for pervious natural disasters.

Yes. I can think of lots of things that weren't broken until they broke.

Yeah but this wasn't broke til it was under funded

Well, now we're just talking in circles. The ones that broke were funded.

S. Weasel did you read that article? They only received a small % of what they were suppose to get, and like joey said, under funed, it may seem small to you but being under funded by 100 mill can cause some problems.

Which article, jerky? I've read dozens of them in the last few days. Including one that said the specific levees that broke were ones whose recommended maintenance had been completed. (Scanning for citation...)

Or you do you simply think the allocation of funds is a magical process that causes safety to happen without any intermediate steps?

Ah. Here we go. NY Times via Captain's Quarters.

Several stories about supposed failures of the Bush administration to foresee the catastrophic failure of the New Orleans levee system have gotten published in the last two days, but one in the New York Times buries an uncomfortable fact midway through its report. Despite not getting the full federal budget money requested for levee engineering Louisiana requested, it turns out that the levees had indeed been improved and strengthened in targeted portions -- and that the main failure occurred in an upgraded section:

Worth reading. I mean, if you actually give a shit.

jerky101 pwned!! You're S. Weasel's biotch now!

wow so they did some upgrades on a super limited budget, I'm sure that the upgrades they preformed were exactly what they wanted to do, and not cut back in any way shape or form. Also And no I don't think that throwing money at something makes it safe, but giving them a hell of a lot less money sure as hell didn't make them any safer. Also I'm just wondering here cause you've stated 2 diffrent things in the last 2 post, was it recommended maintenance that was done or were they upgraded cause there's world of differnce. Lastly BrewFan great comment your really showing us that you can be part of an adult debate. I don't get how you can argure that having only 10% of thier original budget and completeing some upgrades or recommended maintenance is the same as getting 100% of thier buget. Like wow next time you do some home renos figure how much it would cost to do it they way you want, and then try doing for 10% of that, I'm sure it'll turn out great.

"Lastly BrewFan great comment your really showing us that you can be part of an adult debate"

Does not admitting you're wrong when you've been proved to be wrong 25 f*cking times in the last two days show you can be part of an adult debate? Catch my drift?

Now you're just flailing, jerky. Here's the Chicago Tribune (via Michelle Malkin, because I don't wanna register):

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane-protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.

In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.

Much more at her site, including the fact that the appropriations for the system have been cut drastically every year for decades (though not to your exaggerated 10%).

"The former head of the US Army Corps of Engineers, the agency that handles the infrastructure of the nation's waterways, said the damage would probably have been much less extensive had flood-control efforts been fully funded over the years."

and

Tensions over funding for the New Orleans levees emerged more than a year ago when a local official asserted money had been diverted to pay for the Iraq war
read here

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/budget-cuts-delayed-flood-controls/2005/09/02/1125302739014.html

So it seems there's info to support both sides, I'm not gonna waste anyore time here debating. Your not gonna seem my side, and I'm not gonna see your side.

http://www.femainfo.us/Links/Disaster_in_the_Making.htm

This article was Published 10/21/04

Bush and clan caught with their pants down.

Michael D Brown Head of FEMA was nominated by President George W. Bush.

Bush and clan caught with their pants down.

Seriously. Do you morons ever give up? The story is starting to move past your already-tired talking points.

Michael D Brown Head of FEMA was nominated by President George W. Bush.

No kidding. That's what presidents do - nominate people.

"Michael D Brown Head of FEMA was nominated by President George W. Bush"

And confirmed by the U.S. Senate. So whats your point genius?

Tensions over funding for the New Orleans levees emerged more than a year ago when a local official asserted money had been diverted to pay for the Iraq war.

Asserted - "Confidently stated to be so but without proof; alleged: the asserted value of a painting."

This is what you're basing your arguments upon? The unfounded accusations by an unnamed local official?

http://www.citizencorps.gov/

Citizen Corps asks you to embrace the personal responsibility to be prepared; to get training in first aid and emergency skills; and to volunteer to support local emergency responders, disaster relief, and community safety.

http://www.ready.gov/index.html

What is Ready.gov all about?

Terrorists are working to obtain biological, chemical, nuclear and radiological weapons, and the threat of an attack is very real. Here at the Department of Homeland Security, throughout the federal government, and at organizations across America we are working hard to strengthen our Nation's security. Whenever possible, we want to stop terrorist attacks before they happen. All Americans should begin a process of learning about potential threats so we are better prepared to react during an attack. While there is no way to predict what will happen, or what your personal circumstances will be, there are simple things you can do now to prepare yourself and your loved ones.

Who you calling moron slu and brew?
told ya you should just shut up!
And you all suposed to be educated!
Overeducated fools is what you are.