Hunter, c'mon.

As much fun as it is to bash the French, the fact that 177 French troops helped out on D-day has to be factored against two things:

1- the role the French Resistance fighters played in helping Operation Overlord by assisting Allied forces and by hindering German responses.

and

2- the question of the US and Britain *wanting* to include French troops in any of the training and operational issues during the months leading up to D-Day. As a security matter, I doubt that Ike or Monty would want to include many French troops at all, even if they were readily available. They weren't trained, command structures would have to have been integrated, and there'd be bigger issue with language than the one already present between the British and American forces.

and, to toss in a third point, those177 troops were French commando/special forces types, so let's give them some credit for being on the sharp part of the spear.

Perhaps the reason why there were only 177 helping on D-day was that over 300,000 of them had been crushed by the Nazi tank attack on France. Do they get no credit for standing in the face of a Nazi onslaught and dying? Evidently not from conservative morons.

Er, Bill? That's 300,000 casualties - only about 90,000 were killed. The bigger deal was that the Vichy government capitulated and allowed almost two million French soldiers to sit in prison camps in Germany for the duration of the war.

And that, alas, is something which can be held against the French.

Bill -

As a practical matter, the French don't get credit for standing in the face of the Nazi onslaught as the French spent the better part of five years watching the onslaught develop.

Nor do the French get credit for the 300,000 (as SparcVick said, it was about 90,000 killed, 200,000 wounded - plus millions of POWs via surrendered armies) ... they miscalculated their defenses and the means to oppose the Nazi tank attack.

In matters military, it's generally wise to avoid anything specifically 'French' ... Napoleon was, after all, a Corsicsan.

ONLY 90,000 dead and a million in prison camps??!! Those cowardly bastards!

I guess the French helped us win by making the Germans feed all of the French POWs. I bet they were really picky about their food and were rude to their Nazi captors at every turn, too. "Ze cheese, she is not moldy enough!"

Do they get no credit for standing in the face of a Nazi onslaught and dying?

Bill,

The historical fact is the French did precious little "standing in the face" of the Germans, except for that portion that reached the last ditch at Dunkirk.

Their 1930s appeasement inclination led very smoothly to armistice and collaboration. In spite of many exaggerations about the Resistance, the cravenness remains a national trait.

Still, France will always be there when they need us.

Cordially...

Speaking of standing, Rick, all of Paris was left standing while brave French men resisted the German invasion.

Two million, Bill, and a French government in enthusiastic collaboration with the Germans and encouraging French soldiers who escaped with the Brits or were stationed in Africa to lay down their arms and stop fighting the Nazis. This last resulting in shooting between British and French forces at Mers-el-Kebir, and French vs. Anglo-American at Casablanca.

Don't forget the Salvadoran ass-kickers that were awarded medals earlier in the war:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Nov2004/n11122004_2004111210.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040503-115511-7092r.htm

I'd say that charging a group of men with guns, with only a knife, is pretty brave.

That last was me. I recommend "The Sorrow and the Pity" as an interesting film introduction to France under the Vichy government, although "Eye of Vichy", a collection of newsreels, is shorter and more entertaining, particularly the bizarro anti-American cartoon featuring Mickey Mouse and Popeye as bomber pilots.

...featuring Mickey Mouse and Popeye as bomber pilots.

And don't forget, they were sent on their bombing mission by American JOOOS. How little things have changed in Murika, huh? Or is it, plus ca change in France?

Cordially...

The French did deploy an entire Field Army (twelve divisions) into the ETO by the end of 1944. The First French Army under de Lattre did have to be equipped by the Americans. But they did fight well.

The only time the French fought was against the Americans during Operation Torch.

Conversation overheard on the T:

Rider 1: "Well, what about the battleship the British had on the scene during the Suez crisis?"

Rider 2: "There was no British battleship. The only battleship at Suez was French."

Rider 1: "The French had a battleship at Suez? Why? Did it go really fast in reverse or something?

Yes, when all else fails, bash the French.

Yes the Vichy government in France was full of corrupt officials who only thought about themsevles but by no means does it represent all of France. If the US bordered Germany in 1939 we'd be overrun too (remember those old training vides of the late 1930s where for tanks we used trucks with the 'Tank' label on them? That was cause we had no tanks.) and certainly some in the government would be quick to lay down all resistance.

The fact is, France has stood with us against terrorism since 9/11 and has done a lot of help in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the region. And yes, you will say, 'but what about Iraq', well guess what, not everyone thinks the war in Iraq and the war against islamic extremism is the same thing.

I'm sorry Tanker, but credit has to be given when it is due. The French First Army was a valuable addition to Eisenhower's Order of Battle. The French did not have many commendable moments during World War II, but they did have some and it's tacky to deny it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_French