Excellent.

Don't forget, we trod on their holy Moon in '69., how can we take that back.

If only we had someone at the white house or the pentagon who knew what to do in defeating the terrorists. We have a President who dosen't understand that the battle is just more than dropping bombs and hoping that our "friends" the Saudis will stop giving money to the madrases. How many more soliders and civilians have to die until that they wake up to the fact that poverty, lack of education, and our support of dictaterships are the main causes of thier hatred. Are we to blame for 9/11, of course not, but are we to blame for making the situation worse, yes. This country needs real leadership in this war, not holding hands with the leader of the country that supplied the money and most of the men responsable. Answear this: what country has real WMD, proven links to al-qeda, and is run by a dictator? Pakistan thats who. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan our two biggest allies in the muslim world, yea great allies, great leadership. The right needs to stop being easy on this preident and wake up to the fact that he dosen't know what the hell he is doing.

"How many more soliders and civilians have to die until that they wake up to the fact that poverty, lack of education, and our support of dictaterships are the main causes of thier hatred"

Right. And we used to be told the people in Russia, Poland, Hungary, etc., etc. hated us too. But they didn't and the vast majority of the people of the mideast don't hate us either. What does it say about you that you just can't bring yourself to imagine that these people yearn for freedom just like us and they are too stupid to know that they are really oppressed by their own governments? BTW, if you disagree with the WH and the Pentagon's strategy, what would your's be?

If only we had someone at the white house or the pentagon who knew what to do in defeating the terrorists.

Hey, Lefty! Your tradition of rolling over and offering them your butt doesn't work.

The people of the Warsaw Pact freed themselves with the support of the countries of NATO. We in the west did it by showing them that there is better way of life, Reagan with his statement about the shinning building on the hilltop( sorry can't remember the actual quote).As to the Idea that a vast majority don't hate us, I would refer you to the recent poll where 50% responded with a negative attitude towords the U.S..How do we win? It wont be easy, but we can start by stop giving money to those countries that support these terrorists. Economic insentives for holding fair elections, invest money in countries that prove that they want to join the modern world. Education for all, by having the peace corp going in and setting up real schools; the only education many of these people will ever recieve comes from madrases,not good. Lastly support womens rights in all of these countries, look at Turkey, and how well they have done it. It will take a global effort to win this war and we will need every friend we can get, so if that means that we have to be a little humble on the world stage, then thats what we have to do. Lastly, what did more to hasten the fall of the iron curtin, MTV and blue jeans or a strong military? Answear: neither the were equally importent.

Is the "poverty, lack of education, and our support of dictaterships" the reason everyone in South Central and the Appalachias is wearing the ol' BoomBoom Vest? Or is it more the Idahoans concern with them "dictaterships?"

"Lastly, what did more to hasten the fall of the iron curtin, MTV and blue jeans or a strong military? Answear: neither the were equally importent."

I don't know where to start so I won't. Suffice it to say you have left the reality based community and have entered Fantasyland.

Claire, as bad as it may be in any area in america, it does not come close to what 90% of the middle east has to live in. P.S. some spelling sucks, does it take away from my argument. Dyslexic of the world untie.

Brewfan,
if that is the best answear you have, then maybe it is time for you wake-up and smell the cat food. Our culture is what makes us unique in the world, many people want to come here and live our lifestyle. Name calling, soooo very grown-up of you. Let me guess, you have no answear to my side because you are fine little republican robot who doesn't know what to do when someone has an actual idea of how to win this war and make our country better. Didn't you get the talking memo about how the left is the coming up with ideas that don't just involve just dropping bombs.

"Let me guess, you have no answear to my side because..."

I don't have time to discuss ideas with somebody who thinks MTV was a major cause of the fall of communism. Its just not worth it, jeff. As far as name calling, I don't think I did but if you want clarification why don't you stop over by the Free Fire Zone thread? You'll find out things about your mother and sister you never knew :)

Jeff, you know all that stuff that you want the Bush administration to do?

Guess what? They're already doing everything you mentioned, in addition to the military actions that are sometimes the last resort to free people suffering under complete police states.

If you only get your news from the networks or the NY Times, or AP, I can understand why you would not be aware of this.

"[T]his is about the perverted use of principles of the great world religion that, at its root, preaches peace and cooperation."

Either Howard has read Sura 9 of the Koran and knows better, or he has not and does not. He is either lying to the multitude who have never cracked open the Koran, or he is himself one of that multitude.

John Howard Rocks!

And Jeff, do some research re: the name "Marc Sageman". According to his research into the backgrounds of 500 al-Qaeda members, the typical al-Qaeda recriuit is a well-educated professional. He comes from an middle-upper class family and is likely to have been educated in the West.

Yeah, that damn poverty. Just like that Bin Laden guy...

Arafel, there's a third possibility. He's a politician, and he's giving a head-nod to all those Muslims out there who are secretly disgusted by Islamic terrorism but may not have the guts to speak out. There are some, you know...maybe not as many as we used to think, but there are some.

It just wouldn't do for John Howard, Tony Blair, George Bush, or any other world leader to stand up and call Islam a religion of bloodshed and murder. It would be a terrible injustice those Muslims who are simply trying to live peaceful lives and follow their God as they understand him.

Name calling, soooo very grown-up of you. Let me guess, you have no answear to my side because you are fine little republican robot

really, I wasn't paying attention to the rest of it. This just struck me as funny. He makes the move in one sentence, impressive, no?

:)

"If only we had someone at the white house or the pentagon who knew what to do in defeating the terrorists. We have a President who dosen't understand that the battle is just more than dropping bombs and hoping that our "friends" the Saudis will stop giving money to the madrases."

WHOA! Clinton's back in office?

"How many more soliders and civilians have to die until that they wake up to the fact that poverty, lack of education, and our support of dictaterships are the main causes of thier hatred."

Umm, OBL actually has NONE of those issues and REALLY hates us.

You are aware that terrorism isn't caused by poverty, right? The relationship is actually the exact opposite.

"Answear this: what country has real WMD, proven links to al-qeda, and is run by a dictator? Pakistan thats who."

What country has USED WMDs in the past, took in one of Al Qaeda's top lieutenants during their own war, and was run by a dictator?

Iraq.

"The people of the Warsaw Pact freed themselves with the support of the countries of NATO."

Hold on to that one. It was NATO ---not the US dragging them out of bondage. Feel free to believe that. Without us, nothing happens.

I can't think of another NATO country that the same could be said of.

"It wont be easy, but we can start by stop giving money to those countries that support these terrorists."

Drilling in Alaska would help A LOT.

"Economic insentives for holding fair elections, invest money in countries that prove that they want to join the modern world. Education for all, by having the peace corp going in and setting up real schools; the only education many of these people will ever recieve comes from madrases,not good."

OR, in the parlance of the left, we need to colonialize them and run their countries.

"Lastly, what did more to hasten the fall of the iron curtin, MTV and blue jeans or a strong military? Answear: neither the were equally importent."

Yeah, MTV was key. Where else could E. Europeans not watch music videos? Odd that in the 1970's, the USSR was in good shape in the eyes of most.

Reagan comes in, doesn't play nice with them, and lo and behold, they tank. But I'm a coincidence it was.

el Jefe spewed: How many more soliders and civilians have to die until that they wake up to the fact that poverty, lack of education, and our support of dictaterships are the main causes of thier hatred
&
It wont be easy, but we can start by stop giving money to those countries that support these terrorists

So if terrorism is caused by poverty, we should fight terrorism by increasing the poverty in terrorist & borderline terrorist nations?

Seriously, I'm trying to comprehend how you can hold two contrary truths at the same time.