I fly a lot. I want 1, 2 & 3. I always carry with frangible ammo.

I'd just add that if crew or able passengers are carrying on the plane, the weapon should be thoroughly concealed. You don't want to telegraph to the bad guys you have something they could use.

So, how would we deal with the problem of check in and clearing security (without tipping off said bad guy)?

Course, this is just an exercise. Ain't gonna happen.

Better they go with armored cockpit doors that stay closed all the time in fight, with the pilot/co-pilot having a gun if they get through the door somehow.

Sky Marshalls are a waste of money...they look obvious and their guns can be taken away by a Muslim adept in martial arts - same with crew outside the cockpit with guns. The main goal is not to protect the passengers from Islamoids...though some might be killed in a hijacking.....but to prevent the plane from being flown into a high value target that could kill tens of thousands or cause tremendous economic damage. Besides, if Islamoids got up in flight and said "Allah-u-Ackbar! All you infidels are mine now" will get 20 or so passengers figuring they are dead anyways jumping up as well and fighting them to the death.

(Sky Marshall picking out is a fun sport..2 of the poor bastards were on a planeload of Florida vacationers I was on headed from Chicago...yeah, the only two on board with dark suits, grim faces, reg haircuts..My favorite recently was a jaded business passenger who told me he looks at passengers who are Muslim-looking on his flight, then waits to see if Marshall-looking people suddenly arrive about 5 minutes before boarding, and who then in 1st class gets bumped on a full flight... )

Minetta has cost airline passengers so much hassle and grief by his refusal to profile Muslims and implementing stupid rule after rule that I'd like to see him thrown into another internment camp. Shame he wasn't in the 10,000 Japanese relocatees so loyal to Hirohito that they renounced any claim to present or future citizenship and sought to be swapped for American POWs so they could fight for the Rising Sun...Even though Japan lost the war, 5,000 of those West Coast Japs still went to Japan as soon as it was safe to deport them - singing songs to the Emperor on the ship taking them away from California. We even gave a 40,000 dollar check and apologies to those assholes that returned to Japan in 1945 for our "mean-ness" to Jap enemy aliens and inconveniencing them in WWII...

Yeah Cedarford, I think Secret Service agents are a waste also. You can pick them out of a crowd everytime. You know with that ear piece thingy. A trained assasin could kung fu the Secret Service agent and take his gun. What a waste.

I read a while back on Michelle Malkin's blog that air marchalls are required to wear suits on the job, which is dumb, because we want them to blend in. If they could just wear jeans and dress casually like everyone else they could perform a valuable service. We can't have them sticking out like sore thumbs.

I think that some flight attendants should also be able to carry guns, provided they are well trained. There's always that risk that a terrorist will be able to take the guns away from them. But the alternative is much worse. We want to be able to save the passengers, AND prevent the planes from being flown into "high value targets." I think it's possible to accomplish both.

Also, I am all for firing Norman Mineta's a--. He's a disgrace. I would also like to see him thrown into another internment camp (not that such a thing would ever happen).

Dman -

Your sarcasm is brainless. Secret Service teams can be from 6 to 40, in radio contact with one another, easily backing one another up. No way will one gun seized from one SSA somehow alter the security situation - the guy taking the gun will be cut down in a millisecond..

On the other hand, about 1 in 4 cops killed by a gun has been killed with his/her own weapon wrested away from them. Most commonly in a brawl where their partner has also been jumped. The point was cockpit security is paramount, best accomplished by a secure door left closed and a pilot ready to plug anyone who gets past it somehow before an emergency landing is made. Sky Marshalls are 3rd-best, can't be on every flight, and are less effective and in danger of being taken out and gun put in Muslim hands because they are so easily "made". Complaining Marshalls in Congressional testimony themselves have called their mandatory FBI Jr. attire their "Kill me first" costumes).

Zelda -

Generally good points, except that bit about flight attendents being armed. A good Muslim Jihadi, confident on seeing no FBI Jr. suit types, could take a gun away from a flight attendent and kill her and any attendents they also suspect might be armed faster than you can say "Brian Nichols and Cynthia Hall". Leading to perhaps 2-3 more 15-shot pistols taken from the other armed flight attendent's bodies.

Remember that Brian Nichols was able to wreak havoc in that Atlanta courthouse despite 25 other armed deputies, later kill an armed Customs agent he surprised.

At worse, without guns in the passenger compartment, you have 1-4 unarmed or primitively armed Muslims at best trying to kill passengers or take over the plane. Who can be overwhelmed by the passengers and hopefully beaten to death, unlike Reid..who was spared..With guns available in the passenger compartment, you get Muslims potentially able to take the guns and take control of the plane. Post 9/11, the pilot's priority is to protect the controls, protect the plane, and protect the passengers in descending order of priority. And priorities #2 and #3 will not supercede priority #1.

It's sorta moot anyways. The Muslim terrorists in charge of operations are intelligent. They are far more likely - instead of planes - to hit us next time in critical economic areas (electric nodes, food distribution points, oil refineries) we can't easily defend. Or high value concentrations of people (schools, shopping malls, theaters, HS football games, subways) we can't easily bound in security perimeters and protect..And then WMDs really open up other possibilities, especially nukes....

(so long as they arm with frangible amunition)
why? my brother the air marshall doesn't

Ok -- we'll leave the high-powered ammo to the pros, but *require* that everyone flying pack overtly using rubber/beanbag ammo. That way if said primitives take one person's gun he knows that everyone, even Grandma in seat 3B will pull out their piece and *Blam*Blam*Blam* away. No subterfuge - no hiding. Deterence.

And #3 -- big platter!

Everyone gets a big bowie knife when they board.
That's my solution.

What?

Cedarboy, I guess it is a waste for police to carry weapons also according to your pulled out of the air statistic. Repeat after me. Terrorists do not go after hard targets. Planes with Marshalls are hard targets. Marshalls are not a waste.

The solution to this is so simple. Just add number 4.

4. Everybody flies naked.

A few years ago I would have said that privatizing social security is a good idea, but it's never going to happen. Granted it still looks like it isn't going to happen, but we've come a lot closer than I ever thought we would.

Calling this article futile is just giving up. And regardless of if will actually change anything, isn't there something to be said for believing in what is right? The TSA goes against everything conservatives claim to believe. It's failure to really increase security while wasting taxpayer money is a textbook example of why some things are better left up to private companies. Conservatives should be outraged by this, but instead we just take it as the inevitable course of government because it's "futile" to believe otherwise.