Somehow, Randall Terry and the Theocons have to be involved! This guy's feeding tube should have been pulled 9 years ago before his cortex could solidify! Damn RTLifers!

this guy's tube should have been pulled....there's a war on

Bill will be here shortly to remind us that this is nothing like the prior case

Nice sophistic jump from "brain damaged" to being analogous to Schiavo to the man being on a feeding tube, but it just isn't so. To quote from your second link:

A Buffalo New York firefighter has broken his silence nearly ten years after an injury on the job left him nearly unable to speak.

Oh yeah, this is just like Schiavo. If the rabid leftist judiciary had only given Schiavo more time, she to would have no doubt come out of her tragic silence and begun to speak, or even notice things.

Really, think before you make such leaps of illogic.

I wonder if his doctor was 115% sure he wouldn't get better.

Unfortunately for him he was awake when Clinton was in office.

But hopefully he'll still remember that great line Reagan said when asked if he dyed his hair:

No, it's just naturally blue.

I think the point may be that miracles can, and do happen.

Herbert, who will turn 44 Saturday, was fighting a house fire Dec. 29, 1995, when the roof collapsed, burying him under debris.

After going without air for several minutes, Herbert was comatose for 2 1/2 months and has undergone therapy ever since.

News accounts in the days and years after his injury describe Herbert as blind and with little, if any, memory.

Video shows him receiving physical therapy but apparently unable to communicate and with little awareness of his surroundings.

Get real, Ace!

Here's a direct quote from your post:

Michael Schiavo just announced that he is withdrawing his proposal of marriage to the fireman.

Nice sophistic jump from being a heterosexual practicing virtual polygamy to carrying on a neo-necrophilious affair with a brain-damaged firefighter.

Oh, the sophistry! I swear, even John Cole could lose his cool over something so illogical and slanderous.

Apparantly the guy was in a coma for 2 1/2 months, came out of the coma ---and has been partially conscious since then, but blind and only able to partially interact due to heavy brain damage.

Naturally the religious kooks want to compare him to T Schiavo, despite his medical condition being completely different than Schiavos, and his never being diagnoses as vegetative...

No surprising for ignorant people that never let the facts get in the way of their beliefs.

You're talking about the gomers that were trying to get in Terri's hospice and pour priest-blessed holy water into the lungs of a woman who lacked the brain matter to even to how to swallow.

According to this the situations may be more closely related than you think. According to the article, he was unable to see, speak, or recognize loved ones. Sounds like the only difference was the lack of a feeding tube. I am only assuming there is not one because the story does not mention it. Googling his name does not seem to bring up much more historical info than what can be gathered reading the current news stories.

Wow, dude, saw Gladiator last night, it like, blew me away! Ya gotta go see it. And they selected, like Bush man, what a lame! Selected not elected!

... Wow that was one heavy trip dude ...

Cedarford- Prior to the feeding tube being placed, Schiavo was spoonfed by mouth.

For those of you giving Ace shit for making the leap from this great story to the TS case, get over yourselves. It was a joke.

However, did you happen to notice that this guy's wife was still there for him? Can't say that for "Hurry up and 'pull her plug' so I can put mine in my girlfriend without commiting adultery Michael."

Dude, that's one of the longest names I've ever seen. Is he related to George Michael?

Yeah, and just how are the wedding plans going for ol' Michael, anyway? Is it going to be as big a bash as Jennifer Willbanks was planning? I guess I shouldn't even be capable of reading this story and thinking of Terry Schiavo, but then, I'm just one of those ignorant religious kooks.

Another difference? He received therapy the whole time. Something Schavio was never given.

Seems it made a difference with him.

Wrong, Schaivo was given extensive therapy for several years.

This is really simple. There is vast difference between brain damage and a brain that is largely gone and the empty space filled with fluid. Terri Schaivo had no brain with which recover those functions that produce human behavior. I'm amazed that this woman's suicide has managed to drag so many people in. Yes, when you starve yourself to the point of autonomic nervous system failure there is no other word for it than suicide. You can dress it up with Lifetime movie of the week names like bulemia but the result is the same.

Notice the lack of outcry over the autopsy results? That is because it showed exactly what was expected. A brain diminished beyond the capacity for volition.

MH - Cedarford- Prior to the feeding tube being placed, Schiavo was spoonfed by mouth.

Factually incorrect. T Schiavo was a Flat-liner on admission, never able to swallow. She was put on feeding tube life support within a few weeks after intitially getting her water and nutrients by IV. She was never spoon fed - though some religious fanatics said she was or could be. She failed 3 extensive rounds of "swallow" therapy M Schiavo insisted on, though doctors warned she lacked the functioning brain neurons needed.....

Compos mentis - However, did you happen to notice that this guy's wife was still there for him? Can't say that for "Hurry up and 'pull her plug' so I can put mine in my girlfriend without commiting adultery Michael."

The difference is that doctors quickly told Michael Schaivo that his wife was vegetative with no hope, and though he was years in the denial his in-laws were trapped in, he came to accept it after 3 or so years. The firefighters wife was told he was not in a coma, not vegetative, and some hope remained for improvement. So she stuck it out, though I'd be surprised if she was celibate and shunned love and relationships for ten years. Also, unlike most wives in her situation, she got full line of duty pay and benefits from her brain damaged spouse's union contract - which made her decision a lot easier than say, a wife whose husband rolled a car, suffered similar brain damage, and who has no pay or benefits coming in.

As for "adultery" when you have a rutabaga unable to keep any of their vows, it's a bit much to ask someone to accept 40-50 more years of celibate, lonely life when no reasonable hope exists that your spouse will "return". Like with the MIA wives - 3 years of waiting seem typical, morally ethical, but then it's time to move on. "Sickness & Health" vows are OK, but in recent decades, medical technology can keep people like T Schiavo in living death for decades whereas in earlier years, pre-1970, most veggies died within a year. Even the Catholic Church recognizes that marriage can be nullified in the eyes of the Church if one partner abandons their spouse or is afflicted so that they cannot keep vows in any meaningful way (which started in early days with one spouse getting leprosy and the other staying healthy). For the right money, the Church also nullified marriages when the woman was unable to produce kids.

I and many others I know agreed during the Schiavo debate ..... We had told our mates - in the military days that they move on if we went MIA, pull the plug if we were kept living on tubes if something like Schiavo's living death happens to us, or if we were "out of it" to move on.

Michael Schiavo had the added burden that his in-laws were religious fanatics that were publicly claiming fantasies of a cognitive Terri, who wanted to play "baby dress up" with her, who said they would lop off all her limbs to keep her alive, and would keep her alive at all costs even if they found out later she wished to die rather than be on artificial life support. So he needed to stay married to help keep her out of the Schindler's delerious hands. The courts and the neutral Guardian ad Litem had found the Schindler's proclaimations "highly disturbing" - politespeak for saying they were nuts that shouldn't be given guardianship.

Eric, that is simply not true. She was NOT given therapy. That was what the whole fight between Michael and the family was about in '93. Nothing was done after that to get her better. Michael tried ONE experimental thing before that, thats it.

I don't want to reargue the case, it has been argued into the ground. I have not heard of the results of the autopsy. Erik, do you have a link?

But it doesn't matter to me anyway. It is simply wrong to starve another human being, no matter how damaged. Period.

Eric,

This is really simple.
... brain that is largely gone and the empty space filled with fluid.
Terri Schaivo had no brain with which recover those functions that produce human behavior.
...starve yourself to the point of autonomic nervous
...autopsy results...showed exactly what was expected. A brain diminished beyond the capacity for volition.

You're right. Repeating unsubstantiated bullshit as though it were common knowledge is really simple. Easy, too.

Yes, Eric, how about providing a link to the autopsy report? Poor cedarford can hardly contain himself. He's giddy with the prospect of popping a big bowl of popcorn and sitting down to a wonderful evening of reading (well, looking at the pictures actually) that report.

cf,

you persistent assumption that those who are married have no obligation to remain true to their vows is morally vacuous.

If the wife in this case, or Michael Schaivo in that case, or the vet wives in those cases, really wanted to "move on," they should formally divorce.

period.

you're full of shit to suggest that spouses of incapacitated or missing people get carte blanche to fuck around.

Either divorce (or get an anullment in teh case of PVS spouses) or stick to your vows. Dishonoring your bond is simply not justifiable, no matter how you couch it in terms of "reasonableness."

Honor is rarely reasonable.

Honor is rarely reasonable.

You are a person.

I AM A PERSON(?)

I thought you were a lawyer.

RWS, you see the question mark^^^

I was wondering the same thing (for the reason you mentioned) but Michael seems to think the two classes aren't mutually exclusive.

hmm.

I wonder.

Hobby -

Most people are not willing to adopt your hairshirt version of Sainthood. It's nice you have a pure, abstract absolutist regard for the Eternity of Marriage, but not most folks. They are just regular people. Their behavior, when you look at it in a collective sense, is fairly predictable....you lose a spouse to death, effective brain death, or they go MIA....you move on. Typically, after 3 years.

Until very recent decades, with quantum advances in medical technology, creatures like T Schiavo's living corpse quickly died, so the dilemma of living decades as husband and corpse didn't exist. Yet.

At the same time, society attatches great legal and financial benefits to marriage, so MIA wives and firefighter wives see common sense in remaining married while eventually seeking a nurturing new relationship, and certainly Michael Schiavo determined he had to remain legally married (if you believe him..) to better safeguard his wife's wishes and care from the religious fanatics of the Schindler Family and their RTL acolytes..

Eric Pobirs - No autopsy report yet. I imagine this one will have lots of "extra" consultants that will delay issuance by several weeks. It would be good if it is used as an opportunity to educate the public and better inform their family's end of life decision making.

"Most people are not willing to adopt your hairshirt version of Sainthood" - Lie.

"Typically, after 3 years" - Lie.

"Until very recent decades, with quantum advances in medical technology, creatures like T Schiavo's living corpse quickly died" - Lie.

"so MIA wives and firefighter wives see common sense in remaining married while eventually seeking a nurturing new relationship" - Lie.

"Michael Schiavo determined he had to remain legally married (if you believe him..) to better safeguard his wife's wishes and care from the religious fanatics of the Schindler Family and their RTL acolytes" - Lie

You've really outdone yourself this time cedarford. You don't even bother to even use facts out of context anymore, you just make stuff up.

That last was mine, the anti-cedarford.

"quantum advances in medical technology, creatures like T Schiavo's living corpse quickly died"

umm...creatures? That tells me about all I need to know about you Cedar.

Yeah, well her parents wanted the QUANTUM ADVANCE IN MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY of taking her home and feeding her themselves. Yes, she probably would have died quicker, but at least she wouldn't have been STARVED TO DEATH.

Good GOD! What is it about this you don't get?

Michael seems to think the two classes aren't mutually exclusive.

Normally they are, but your post just got me thinking about the example set by my father. Long story.

"Most people are not willing to adopt your hairshirt version of Sainthood."

O Megan, just knock it off. We know that's you.

Cedarford: proof that you can still type without a cerebral cortex.

By the way, I think I recognize that picture of the so-called "Terri Schiavo Brainless Scan" -- that's actually a photo of the efficiency I lived in in Miami. See over there? That's the kitchenette, which had no room for a stove so I cooked on a hot plate. Ah, luxe living.

I really shouldn't be enjoying the disemboweling of Cedarford as much as I am. Naughty naughty me.

Later,
bbeck

SOPHISTRY!!

SpewFan -

You, as usual, don't know what you are talking about. Isn't it time for you to run along like a good boy and suck some more cock? Or are your gay predilictions - emphasis on the lictions - all lies, lies, lies?

RightWingSparkle -

The pity is not just that Schiavo lacked a brain to know her husk was dying, it is people like you that think letting a Flat-liner die entails any suffering. If you forget to water a plant and it dies, did it suffer? Her parents couldn't feed her, unless you consider them turning on the switch for her feeding machine feeding her.

Paul Campos of the Rocky Mountain News had a good observation. The media has identified a population that must be entertained daily with either celebrity justice or a white female with a nice smile in trouble:

Still, there are only so many Jacksons and Stewarts and Blakes to go around. That's the beauty of Photogenic White Girl in Distress: in a nation of 300 million people, you can always find one when you need one.

Consider this very partial list of names, generated off the top of my not-very-attentive head: Terri, Ashley, Laci, Amber, Elizabeth, Chandra, Jessica (in Iraq), Jessica (down a well), Polly, JonBenet, and now Jennifer, the Runaway Bride.

Since Laci....err Terri.... died a month ago, over 240,000 Americans have died. Many just like "Terri" the Icon. No one outside their family cared.

But not to worry, the Media is scouring the country for the next "Terri" white, female, in distress, nice smile, a Snidely Whiplash evildoer to be cast in the Scott Peterson, Gary Condit, Michael Schiavo role. The Runaway bride fizzled, the Oregon missing woman Greta found before that turned out be drunk as a skunk when she drowned. Thank God you have the Michael Jackson Trial of the Century to fill your lives with meaning until the next Laci or Terri is located!

Fret not, Andrea Harris, bbeck, Dohnim.....you will have your next Photogenic White Female in Distress - your needed vicarious emotional fix, shortly. So get ready you mooing cows, and have your bon-bons ready......

Cedarford,

We can do so much better than that. Sure the media may need a beautiful female victim of the week, but who puts that desire in their hearts?

I think we both know the answer. The folks that wrote the Protocols...

serious question.......

is there an update? has the autopsy been performed? results? has there been a funeral?
I tried googling but couldn't find anything on the first 5 pages of results other than what's been done to, ah, well, you know what I mean...... anyone have any info?

Seems to have gone mighty quiet on the western front.....

Shorter Cedarford: "I am a PERSON!" Drool...

I wonder if he wears mismatched sneakers.

Cedar, you have NO way of knowing how much she suffered. I kinda like to give the benefit of the doubt to her and not take the chance on another human being.

Nurses testified in avadavits that they fed her by mouth so get off that horse.

Saying all these things might justify your inhumane beliefs Cedar, but they simply aren't true.

I must have missed this, was Terri a JOOOOOOOOOO?

Dave in TX, you don't have to be a Jew for CF to want you dead, but it helps.

Evidently all you need for him to pull the plug on you is a better functioning brain than his.

Later,
bbeck

His first word was: Rosebud

Rightwingsparkle -

I can only go on the testimony of doctors that examined her. All thinking areas of her brain dead, no electrical activity in neurons (flat-liner). Most of her brain rotted and liquified away. Only brain stem activity left. A husk unable to think or feel pain. And even if T Schiavo's husk felt pain, death by dehydration is an easy death that hundreds of thousands of dying Americans that are fully cognitive choose each year as an easy, mostly painless way to go.

The nurses you cite were discredited in court proceedings as unbelievable, religiously motivated to deceive.....with one, Carla Iyer found to be a liar in violation of her court oath and nursing oaths that had made serious charges that were disproven completely by testimony of other individuals...including the Schindler Family itself.

bbeck -

I am an anti-Zionist. I don't want any Jew dead. Nor do I want stupid twats such as yourself dead....I am sure you are good for something.

Seedy spewed:
Carla Iyer found to be a liar in violation of her court oath and nursing oaths that had made serious charges that were disproven completely by testimony of other individuals...including the Schindler Family itself.

Provided that you're not full of shit (GUFFAW!), Michael Schiavo should have a wonderful basis for a defamation case.

He's got the money and the lawyers. He's got the deep pocket defendants (Hannity, Terri Foundation, et al). According to you and all of your wifebeater buddies, he's got the grounds.

I wonder why he hasn't filed suit yet?

Probably because he's a poor, sad, put-upon man who lost his stupid bulimic wife because of her stupidity and her being stupid and he's so heartbroken that he can't go on with the pain anymore so he's just given up on clearing his good name because it's just not worth it.

Dear "May",

He may have a case against the Schindlers, but they have no real money. Carla Sauer Iyer is just poor white trailer trash. Lying trash, at that..No one has ever gotten money out of Randall Terry, not even the families of Planned Parenthood centers he advocated someone else kill, were killed.

Hannity is loaded and sat right in the midst of the RTL circus at the Hospice as their personal Bible-thumping cheerleader - but was careful to only repeat the defamatory things OTHERs said, and never threaten M Schiavo's life.

He has no money. All the funds were spent long ago.

Who does have grounds to sue the religous fanatics, the psychotic Schindler Family and Jeb Bush is the Hospice, which was billed for 110,000 dollars for cops defending hospice grounds and people within the Hospice from the "sanctity of life nuts" making death threats and trying to get holy water to "Terri".