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April 20, 2005

"Holy Grail" of Ancient Texts Now Being Read

For more than a century, it has caused excitement and frustration in equal measure - a collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation. If only it was legible.
Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed.

In the past four days alone, Oxford's classicists have used it to make a series of astonishing discoveries, including writing by Sophocles, Euripides, Hesiod and other literary giants of the ancient world, lost for millennia. They even believe they are likely to find lost Christian gospels, the originals of which were written around the time of the earliest books of the New Testament.

On the one hand, I'm very happy to see progress being made in any science.

On the other hand, I sort of feel bad for the children of the future, who will be forced to read more crap by Sophocles and Euripedes.

Imagine being told in tenth grade they'd discovered a sequel to Beowulf, or the "lost chapters" of the Canterbury Tales. If you were a teenager on the edge, wouldn't you just hang yourself at that point?

Seriously. I considered that option myself numerous times while reading Ivanhoe. The only thing that kept me from riding the .45 Express to Oblivion was the nagging feeling that it was the coward's way out.

And also, someone gave me their Cliff's Notes.

Sometimes the ethical duty of a scientist is to consider the consequences of his work and, if it is likely his work will result in horrors untold, abandon it posthate.

Via The Perfect World.

And While You're "Down There" Update: If you love/hate the movies like me, you might want to check out this thread on the worst movie lines of all time.

posted by Ace at 11:52 AM

Comments

THIS is really cool. Kudus to whomever found this (at APW)

Posted by: fat kid on April 20, 2005 11:58 AM

Ace,

"...or the "lost chapters" of the Canterbury Tales. If you were a teenager on the edge, wouldn't you just hang yourself at that point?"

LOL.

That sounds about right.

Posted by: MeTooThen on April 20, 2005 12:06 PM

I, being the dweeb that I am, of course loved Ivanhoe and Sophocles and Euripides. Which reminds me:

Knock, Knock
Who's there?
Euripides
Euripides who?
Euripides pants, Eumenides pants!

HaHA!

But I did draw the line at reading Great Expectations, that did send me into a near coma state. Perhaps Nevada.

Posted by: vonKreedon on April 20, 2005 12:07 PM

Damn, vonKreedon, where were you when I was studying Anglo-Saxon and Latin?

Semper ubi sub ubi!

Geekiness never goes out of style, especially scholarly geekiness, because it was never in style.

Sigh.

I'm looking forward to the publications, though, seriously. The thought of more Sophocles (sorry, Ace, but I loved the Oedipus trilogy, and rather modeled myself on Antigone) thrills me to no end - especially since this means we will probably have fewer corrupt lines and interpolations.

Way cool.

Posted by: Dianna on April 20, 2005 12:15 PM

Why do you half to be such a "glass is half empty" kind of guy, Ace?

For all we know there might be some lost Aristophanes plays in there, and God knows we can never have too many raunchy comedies in the Classics departments.

Posted by: Alex_fs on April 20, 2005 12:32 PM

Have any of you ever read a noncensored translation of The Canterbury Tales, specifically, The Miller's Tale? The day before the book report was due, trying to be cool, I went downtown and checked out a copy. Holy crap!

Posted by: on April 20, 2005 12:46 PM

For all we know there might be some lost Aristophanes plays in there, and God knows we can never have too many raunchy comedies in the Classics departments.

He was sort of a paleocon, though.

Posted by: someone on April 20, 2005 12:48 PM

April, you silly slag, one pussy fart in the midst of eyeball-glazing monotony is not a revelation worthy of "Holy crap!"

Posted by: spongeworthy on April 20, 2005 01:14 PM

It should, perhaps, be noted that these long-lost texts were found in an ancient landfill.

Forgive me, but I doubt we're going to add anythng to the bible from text that was found, discarded.

Posted by: Bithead on April 20, 2005 01:48 PM

I don't know about that. I'd throw away War and Peace if I couldn't get rid of it at the tag sale.

Posted by: lauraw on April 20, 2005 01:57 PM

euripedes? sophocles? hacks. stole from me left and right.

Posted by: Issac Asimov on April 20, 2005 02:01 PM

April:

yeah,the Miller's Tale is funny

Posted by: johnny on April 20, 2005 02:10 PM

And here I thought I was the only Ace reader so geeky that I actually got excited when I read about this. Turns out the site is crawling with classical geeks. This is what it sounds like when doves cry.

One of the items in this collection is supposed to be a major work by Archilochos. Only fragments of his work have survived up 'til now, but they include lines like, "To engage with an insatiable girl, /Ramming belly against belly, /Thigh riding against thigh." You'd think more stuff like that would make a suicidal teenager's day.

Posted by: utron on April 20, 2005 03:02 PM

The very first document that landfill turned up was a Greek copy of the "Gospel of Thomas" (Oxyrhynchus Paprus 1), older than any extant copy of, say, the "Gospel of Mark". Do a Google on "POxy1"...

(I'd also argue that the "Gospel of Matthias" was papyrus #840, but in that gospel's case I'd have thrown it away myself.)

Posted by: David Ross on April 20, 2005 04:17 PM

I hope they find some of the lost mathematical work by Euclid and Archimedes. It would be useful for historical purposes. So would any actual histories.

Posted by: NF on April 20, 2005 07:09 PM

Yeah, "Ivanhoe" sucked, but "Rob Roy" was good.

Posted by: Born Free on April 20, 2005 08:53 PM

I'm just hoping they find the lost recipe for Greek Fire. I'm already sneaking around construction sites for the raw materiel for my catapult.

Posted by: Peter on April 20, 2005 08:58 PM

What's wrong with you? A sequel to Beowulf would be AWESOME!

"'Let your sorrow end! It is better for us all to avenge our friends, not mourn them forever. I promise you. She shall have no shelter, no hole to hide, no towering tree, no deep bottom of a lake where her sins may hide."

Shakespeare only wishes he was that good.

Later,
bbeck

Posted by: bbeck on April 20, 2005 09:49 PM

Wouldn't a sequel to Beowulf have to be done in flashback?

Posted by: zetetic on April 20, 2005 10:27 PM

Zetetic, maybe the author could have pulled a Lucas and written the second one BEFORE the first.

Or, he could pull a Crichton and suddenly have a character he killed in the first book actually still be alive for the second.

Come on, it's fantasy, it could happen...

Later,
bbeck

Posted by: bbeck on April 20, 2005 10:34 PM

As long as we're going into uber-geek mode, why couldn't the author pull an Orson Scott Card and tell the same story over again, from the viewpoint of a secondary character?

Posted by: utron on April 20, 2005 10:40 PM

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In response to someone asking why the video tape doesn't show Tyler Robinson's face (PS, it does, but it's crappy video so it's blurry):

Candace Owens
@RealCandaceO

Because as I demonstrated on my show, there were MANY young men that all woke up and decided to dress in Maroon shirts and light shorts on the day of the Charlie's assassination.

The footage can be any one of these young men and in my opinion is likely multiple of them.

If Tyler Robinson's defense would like to contact me-- I'd be happy to supply them the folder of the maroon boys that I began archiving when I noticed the bizarre fashion trend.

I have thus far ID'd two of them, but will focus on IDing the rest of them when I am back on air.

I have maintained that the Feds had multiple decoy maroon boys on the ground that day. Without a clear image, they certainly cannot declare it is Tyler Robinson which is why all the Zionist influencers are hoping they can simply hypnotize the public into trusting blurry images and videos.

For such an "open and shut case" they have thus far provided ZERO evidence of anything outside of a criminal government conspiracy, the likes of which hasn't been seen since the JFK assassination.

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Blake Neff
@BlakeSNeff

BREAKING: Lance Twiggs says that Robinson admitted to him in-person on Sept. 11 that the message he had sent the night before (presumably, messages sent while he was trying to retrieve his rifle the night of Sept 10) was true. He says Robinson told him "He wishes he hadn't done it."

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Photos of the ammunition recovered from Tyler Robinson.

Remington headstamp on the case and despite the somewhat low resolution on the photo you can see the somewhat blunted nature of the projectile's tip.

This is a Remington Cor-Lokt soft point round. It's SPECIFICALLY designed to deform, slow down, and prevent an exit wound. Available at literally every single gun store and sporting goods store that sells ammunition.

In fact, 16 out of the 17 .30-06 varieties manufactured by Remington use some type of expanding, deforming, or fragmenting bullet. Only ONE of their products uses a full metal jacket projectile that could/would be expected to leave an exit wound.

Here's a clip of them sitting in my desk.

This has been the most easily debunked claim of their entire web of lies and it's really mind blowing considering this is exactly what you would choose for an assassination.

But yeah, definitely keep getting all your information from the DEI hire and the Portland pizza boy. I'm sure they know more about this than I do.

Post here, showing Tyler Robinson's ammunition, matching this guy's own box. And it is an expanding-tip hollow-point round.

Boy these Internet Experts (TM) sure do get a lot of things wrong.

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She is doing poorly...she is in the hospital and is having a tough go of it. She would love to hear from you folks, so anyone who would like to contact her is welcome to her address! Please contact Bluebell at moroncookbook@gmail.com for her contact info. (I expect her local post office to be furious with us!)
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