I support unwarranted intercepts.

Don't give them any ideas.

I'm actually going to delete that post just because I worry they'll start doing that.

How the fuck do you have reservations about this? When did you start writing like a flank-covering Joe Klein, caveating like some mid-level bureaucrat? Is this what happens when the Eli Manning bubble bursts?

Sorry, I deleted the BumperStickerist's post, not because it was offensive, but because it had a prediction about what the left could do to help the terrorists win, and I'm genuinely afraid some of those on the left would think it was just a peachy keen idea.

Mention "Eli Manning" again and you're banned, dude.

As for reservations-- well, as a general matter, were we not in, you know, A FUCKING WAR OF SURVIVAL, I would prefer the government to have less police power than more.

"I think the liberals have this idea that Bush will use this program to spy wholesale on domestic political opponents"

And, you would be right!

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/National_Security_Agency_spied_on_Baltimore_0110.html

Follow the link to see the NSA docs! What fun. Nowhere do I see any reference to terrorist activities, just people practicing thier right to free assembly, guaranteed by our laws.

Love it when someone walks right into it.

Sorry, to late. I saw that post and will post on Daily Kos. LOL

I'd prefer Archie or Peyton.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

I'm sorry for being brusque.

Perhaps I'm "saddened" that the Redskins moved on even after 41 yards of total offense. I would have preferred 241 yards.

FISA is unwieldy, the monitoring program is right and proper, and I believe these things even though there is a 50/50 chance they got me and Christina Amnanananananapour playing phone sex warden's wife and prison escapee on tape.

Oh My!

My freedom of speech has been crushed.

Crushed I say.

crushed.

and yet, oddly enough, I don't feel too bad about it.

Who invented the cotton gin?

Follow the link to see the NSA docs!

Wow. We must live in a police state if the NSA is watching protestors who are trespassing on the NSA's property.

Yeah, those Baltimore QUakers, u never know when they are going to set of an atomic bomb. Glad to see that our national resourses are being used to such effect in the war on terror.

And you conservatives complain about gov't costing to much, inefficient, etc. Well, maybe if the Pres didn't use the NSA to spy on domestic peaceniks for his own political agenda, we'd have more money for body armor.

Sandy, don't u think the weapons of mass destruction quick action team was a bit of overkill? Against Quakers, for God's sake? What happened to some rent a cops and a paddy wagon? Why write down all the lisence plate numbers?

Denial: It ain't a river in Egypt

Are you for real? Sorry, but if I get a beat-down for breaking and entering into the Whitehouse, it's my own damn fault.

Larry, do you really believe the NSA would de-classify documents about the surveillance of terror suspects?

Do you really believe they would divulge information revealing who they are watching and investigating for terror?

Sandy, don't u think the weapons of mass destruction quick action team was a bit of overkill?

How should I know? I have no idea why they made that decision. But, since I'm, you know, sane, I'm gonna consider the possibility that not all of the facts are in, your balanced article notwithstanding.

Bart: That's not the point at all, but thanks for trying to spin it that way. The NSA is not allowed by it's charter to spy on US citizens engaged who are NOT engaged in terrorist activities. Protest (to the awesome level of tresspassing, Sandy) doesn't qualify.

Against Quakers, for God's sake?

I mean, they make oatmeal, for the love of all that is holy.

Sandy: Great, I agree. How do we get at the facts? Because, on the surface at least, this looks like an abuse of power and resources.

Larry,

I'm just curious-- why are you so proud that you're an "urbanite"? You've got it in your name so you must think of that as an accomplishment or disguishment.

Was finally getting that apartment in Williamsburg really a big step for you?

How about asking your senator to look into it?

If the NSA has broken the rules, they should get busted for it. But a bunch of dumb-asses who are aiding our enemies by storming important government agencies (who have actual important work to do, I might add) are not what I consider to be a particularly credible bunch, so I'll be very surprised if there is anything to their allegations.

If I'm wrong, fire the bastards, hold hearings, jail criminals, the works. But I'll tell you, I can spot idiots a mile away, and these people are idiots. You're betting on the wrong horse, buddy.

But honestly, if you think that there really is anything to this story, then you have a patriotic duty to write your Congressional representatives. Have fun with that.

The perfect juxtaposition is those poll numbers next to Harry Reid proudly claiming "we killed the Patriot Act." Yeah, thanks for that. We'll see what that does to your popularity.

"Well, maybe if the Pres didn't use the NSA to spy on domestic peaceniks for his own political agenda, we'd have more money for body armor."

Larry, sentences like this just show how silly you are. Serious, mature debate on the issue of security vs privacy is needed. Saying petty things like this tells me you can't or won't be a useful participant in that debate.

Six Days, Bitch Newswire

Now this would be an excellent name for a link blog by you know who. SDBN

If Zubayda and Al-Libi are calling people in America, I'd be upset if the government WASN'T listening in on the conversation. What could they be calling for? "Hey, Ahmed, how's the wife and kids?"

No need for a warrant, retroactive or not. It's the gathering of foreign intel, as far as I'm concerned.

The NSA is not allowed by it's charter to spy on US citizens engaged who are NOT engaged in terrorist activities.

Again, I humbly ask, do you really believe the NSA is going to share documents with the public about terrorist investigatations?

I'm asking for two reasons. One, it seems you, Josie and Larry, will only be satisfied if the NSA shows definitive proof that it is spying on terror suspects in America. And, two, you seem to actually believe that the NSA is going to release such proof.

Okay, so they were investigating Quakers. Now, what if there is more to the investigation than the NSA can divulge?

I genuinely do appreciate the anonymous leftist who posted that link. Here's an excerpt from the article:

The monitoring is ongoing. Allwine says that at demonstrations the police "have had cookies and drinks set up for us (we don't partake!) and tell us they knew we were coming."

Mention "Eli Manning" again and you're banned, dude.

This is getting too complicated. So far, in order to get banned here, you have to be racist, commit libel, or engage in blatant copyright infringement.

And now, Eli Manning jokes will get you on the shit list.

Ace, you should publish a rule book. People like me are trying to cooperate.

Thanks for your support Sandy.

If this was purely domestic eavesdropping, then the NSA went to a FISA court for a warrant, and persuaded the judges there that the surveillance was necessary.

Just because you guys are too naive to understand that "peace" groups often have non-peaceful members or infiltration by foreign troublemakers doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer for your naivete.

Wow 51% that means the whole nation wants to give up their civil rights.

"And now, Eli Manning jokes will get you on the shit list."

Not just jokes. The mere mention of his name will get you banned. Cursed be his name forever.

"Urbanite" simply means I live in the city with my oppressed brethren...

of course that means gated, locked communities...and most likely an investor in gentrified neighborhoods.

Chicago is in a period of "urban revival" which basically means the white liberals have moved back to the city in new, very expensive condos at the expense of the poor.

Ace:

C'mon, make up your mind. Are we smart because we support warrantless wiretapping or are we stupid because we think winning the lottery is the best way of getting rich?

You're not one of those guys who thinks intelligence is measured by the degree to which someone agrees with you, are you?

the quarterback that shall not be named...

I think I called this when you first posted about it, that a majority of Americans understood the real issue was "warrantless", even though the poll question didn't use the word.

I even said this poll would be modified, and we'd see a majority supporting it anyway.

They scoffed. But my crystal balls were one with the people.

Am I gloating? Absolutely. Will they concede the point? No.

The mere mention of his name will get you banned.

I'm OK with that. If you're willing to tolerate vulgarity, insults directed at Brewfan, Batman quotes and hitting on women, I'm going to remain your faithful reader.

Of course a 51% approval rating from the AP (which almost always oversamples Democrats) actually means the true number is closer to 58-62%.

HI Guys,

how are things?

Don't you know if the NSA spies on those who want Amerikkka destroyed that means the terrorists have already won.

Well..that and detonating a nuclear bomb in downtown New York, but the principal is the same.

The left position is those who are members of terrorist Friends and Family plan have the same rights as Mom and Pop discussing what dirty video they should rent tonight against the will of Pat Robertson and the theocon right.

ie Pat Robertson is more of a threat than maniac heads of state that state the destruction of Israel is a goal.

HI Guys,

I swear to God, Ace. I did not post that, or use the Unmentionable Name. Check the IP address.

C'mon, Ace! I agree with your take on things about 90% of the time, but you have turned the Giants' QB into a real life Lord Voldemort.

You know who might just get you guys to a Super Bowl one of these days and then you will repent.

Until then, just be glad your QB isn't Alex Smith. Watching the Niners' offense this year was the definition of masochism.

Personally, I think Michael did do it.

When I was a kid I lived down the street from a family with the last name Manning, who had sons named ......... Peyton ........ and ........................ .................. ....................... Cooper. (This is true.)

Michael,

It's all right.

"Tom Coughlin" should probably not be named either. Just to be safe.

Heyo.

True story- this guy named Whitney Manning played for a team named the Cotton Gins.

They lost a big game to the Eels. (The Eels' I-back intercepted, like, a bunch of passes or something.)

P.S. Man, do I like living on the edge, or what?

Man, do I like living on the edge, or what?

Dogstar, amongst the financial analysts I know, you are a crazy man.

"The NSA is not allowed by it's charter to spy on US citizens engaged who are NOT engaged in terrorist activities."

And, given the awesome powers of the NSA's team of psychics, you can be sure they know who's engaged in terrorist activities before they start spying. So they're wholly without excuse.

Ace, FYI: A.P. poll says 56& *want* warrants.

Of course, I wonder whether that means the A.P. asked only people at the DNC.

Just curious.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

56%. . . loose shit.

I seriously doubt the NSA is doing this. Surveillance of domestic threats like unruly Quakers belongs under the purview of the FBI. I doubt oat-drunk Quakers would know the difference and I am sure they would love to just plug "NSA" into the acronym blank to get attention. Quakers love attention you know.

And some of you think this is GOOD??

Isn't this one of the major goals of Osama when he initiated the 9/11 tragedy?

Create so much FEAR, Americas would give up freedoms granted by their constitution?

I have absolutely NO problem spying on people the government has REASON to believe are terrorists, etc., but for the government being able to throw a blanket over everybody to see what shakes out, that's a stretch.

I thought Osama's goal was to deprive us of our civil rights by killing us. He could give a shit about the Constitution.

Quakers are very dangerous, Dhimmis-in-waiting.

Isn't this one of the major goals of Osama when he initiated the 9/11 tragedy? Create so much FEAR, Americas would give up freedoms granted by their constitution?

If it was one of his goals, I think he would have been more ambitious than having his calls to America tapped without a warrant. As far as triggering a police state, he's been an abject failure.

If Clinton had done this you sheet-heads would have been screaming bloody murder.

George W. Bush, 4/9/99: Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.

George W. Bush, 6/3/99: “I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”

Hypocrites

Wow, I must have missed the incident where the Serbians came up with a plot to fly hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and carried it off.

Context is everything, asshat.

Actually, Clinton did do this. Look it up.

As to those Bush quotes, some will argue that Bush was talking about a different situation which doesn't apply here. Not me, though, because I don't care. Bush post-9/11 was not the same as Bush pre-9/11. He ran for office in 2000 on a platform similar to his father's, which is why I didn't vote for him in 2000.

Now, please try to be a bit more polite, lest somebody mistake you for a troll.

OK, I lied. I will argue that the situations are different (although, as I said, I wasn't a big fan of Bush in 2000):

The Balkans should be Europe's problem. And they should be deeply ashamed that Americans had to fly halfway around the planet in order to come stop genocide in their back yard. Again.

Asking that American troops come home and leave the cost of fixing the Balkans to Europe is not unreasonable. But invading Iraq and then leaving before we've won is crazy.

51% Huh? I dont care if it were 99% doesn't make it right. I am sure most Germans pre world war two suppported the Nazis too. Give me a break, wait until the Dems are in power, then you will be screaming bloody murder at warrantless searches. Get a clue Ace and stop drinking the Bush Kool Aid. Did you really say dubya is no Nixon and he learned from Nixon's mistakes? When was the last time he learned from anything? -except not to use cocaine anymore- He hasn't learned not to abuse the office of the Presidency. The last time I checked, there was political favors granted to old friends, secret meetinge with the energy companies, money flowing in from the K street project which was set up by fellow Texan Tom De Lie, a chief of staff being indicted in the VP's office, not to mention other underlings in the white house, and I could go on and on. Learned from Nixon? I dont think so!