I've read the book and you're full of shit. Clinton's people merely discussed all kinds of options, but it was only G.W., in 2004...after 9/11 no less, that had the CIA actually handed over plans for a nuclear bomb.

The CIA, also under G.W., again after 9/11, outed all of their agents working in Iran, via another of their contacts that turned out to be a double agent.

The New York Times has nothing to do with writing the book, they, but, as do other publications, they report and review the book's contents, sometimes running excerpts.

Here's a suggestion: Try something new by getting off you ass, buying the book...then actually reading it.

The Guardian did a big article on this, but carefully left out the fact that it happened on Clinton's watch. The headline is a marvelous piece of indirection:

"George Bush insists that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. So why, six years ago, did the CIA give the Iranians blueprints to build a bomb?"

Why? Because the man who was president at the time was an incompetent boob.

By the way, the device in question is one used in plutonium bombs. It seems that Iran's program is directed towards trying to create weapons grade U-235, and you don't need even remotely as sophisticated a detonation mechanism for U-235.

I didn't know Bush wielded such power over CIA operations!

Ace, I think it was you in a previous thread who thought the anti-Christ might turn out to be artificial intelligence because you couldn't imagine a particular person on earth having universal appeal.

Not saying Clinton is the AC - but imagine a person like him as the head of the UN who appears to give everyone what they want, appearing to keep the peace and people are universally fooled by him. Not everyone is fooled by him, but enough people worldwide who believe he has their best interests at heart to make it possible.

Go to your local library and see what books you can find on the UN. All I could find was a propaganda book in the children;s section, supposedly written by children from all over the world, who sing the praises of the UN and how they have the best interests of the world at heart and are the best ones to charge with world governance.

Personally I think the whole NSA surveillance thing is a disinformation campaign, and the NY Times are the Dupes.

Now while AQ scrambles to find new ways to communicate to US cells Bush and Rove are having a good laugh.

Everyone needs to realize that the Merlin operation means that the Clinton administration and the CIA KNEW that Iran had a weapons program, and were actively seeking nuclear weapons. Why attempt this flawed blueprint operation if they weren't interested in a weapon, or were unbelievably far from achieving one?

So what that means, is that Iran's claim of seeking nuclear energy only (and not weapons) is complete bullshit. Clinton very well knew how close they were, even though he and his ilk deny it.

I've read the book and you're full of shit.

Um, no, Thomas. The shit appears to be all over you.

The blueprints were delivered in 2000, before the election.

Steven Den Beste,
It wasn't six years ago...it was in 2004.

Read the fucking book.

Rip,
Really?

Oh, so you think the CIA is some kind of completetly "independant" organization that takes orders from no one?

Did you know Bush was president?

Dogstar:
Here's an excerpt from the book that appeared in the NYT's 2 days ago. Methinks you are wrong.

In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.

But the Iranians were tipped to the scheme by the Russian defector hired by the CIA to deliver the plans and may have gleaned scientific information useful for designing a bomb, writes New York Times reporter James Risen in "State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration."

The clandestine CIA effort was just one of many alleged intelligence failures during the Bush administration, according to the book.

Risen also cites intelligence gaffes that fueled the Bush administration's case for war against Saddam Hussein, spawned a culture of torture throughout the U.S. military and encouraged the rise of heroin cultivation and trafficking in postwar Afghanistan

Top New York Times officials also refused to publish a news article about the reported CIA plot to give intentionally flawed nuclear plans to Iran, according to a person briefed on the newspaper's conversations by one of the participants. That person said the New York Times withheld publication at the request of the White House and former CIA Director George J. Tenet.

"Iran has excellent scientists and any information related to weapons designs could move its program ahead," said a European nuclear weapons expert, who refused to allow his name to be used because his government prohibits comments on nuclear weapons or designs.

David Albright, a former weapons inspector for the IAEA, agreed with the other expert that the plans could have shaved many years off Iran's nuclear effort.

Albright, now president of the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington, said. "I don't quite understand the purpose of it, why you would want to hand something like this to the Iranians. It's unlikely to work."

According to the book, the CIA effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear effort came on the heels of another massive intelligence failure, in which a CIA officer mistakenly sent an Iranian agent a trove of information that could help identify nearly every one of the spy agency's undercover operatives in Iran.

Stephen den Beste:

Yeah, I've always thought that the Iranians are trying to obtain a "uranium gun" type bomb rather than a plutonium bomb (the "Little Boy" type, where you basically just bring two subcritical masses of sufficiently-enriched U235 together to start a chain reaction). This kind of bomb requires little testing and is highly reliable. The downside is that it's pretty massive compared to a plutonium bomb -- weaponizing it for use on a Shahhab-3 missile would be beyond their capabilities, I think.

Stephen Macklin,
Yeah, that's it.

The NSA really isn't monitoring communications.

Might I suggest you take that aluminum hat off and begin reading...and talking less?

Hi Thomas!

"Beginning in February 2000, the CIA recruited a Russian scientist who had defected to the US years earlier."

So, this is a lie?

Oops!

"Beginning in February 2000, the CIA recruited a Russian scientist who had defected to the US years earlier. His mission: Take the nuclear blueprints to Vienna to sell them - or simply give them - to the Iranian representatives for the International Atomic Energy Agency."

So, this is a lie? And it's another "BUSH IS DUMB IT'S HIS FAULT LOL!!"

Interesting article in NRO about the very fact that the CIA can't really be trusted in this endeavor....

BDS is such a tragic thing, isn't it? First the reading comprehension goes, then the ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy.

Straight from the pages of the book:

...But it's worse than that. Deep in the bowels of the CIA, someone must be nervously, but very privately, wondering: "Whatever happened to those nuclear blueprints we gave to the Iranians?"

The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets. The Russian had good reason to be afraid. He was walking around Vienna with blueprints for a nuclear bomb.

To be precise, he was carrying technical designs for a TBA 480 high-voltage block, otherwise known as a "firing set", for a Russian-designed nuclear weapon. He held in his hands the knowledge needed to create a perfect implosion that could trigger a nuclear chain reaction inside a small spherical core. It was one of the greatest engineering secrets in the world, providing the solution to one of a handful of problems that separated nuclear powers such as the United States and Russia from rogue countries such as Iran that were desperate to join the nuclear club but had so far fallen short.

The Russian, who had defected to the US years earlier, still couldn't believe the orders he had received from CIA headquarters. The CIA had given him the nuclear blueprints and then sent him to Vienna to sell them - or simply give them - to the Iranian representatives to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). With the Russian doing its bidding, the CIA appeared to be about to help Iran leapfrog one of the last remaining engineering hurdles blocking its path to a nuclear weapon.

"The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets."

It's amazing how Bush was in control of the CIA before he became president.

Clinton didn't care if Iran, China or North Korea would eventually kill us, he just wanted to be liked.

Thomas, you come here very angry and indignant telling people to "read the fucking book" yet it turns out YOU HAVEN'T ACTUALLY THE READ BOOK as you so righteously have claimed.

Not only that, but the cut and paste job you did which you claim is a excerpt of the book published by the NYT is actually an article published by the LA Times. http://wwwlatimescom/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-intel4jan04,0,6972451.story?track=mostemailedlink

You claim that we are liars and full of shit, yet so far you are the only one posting lies and bullshit.

Feel free to come back after you have actually read the book.

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than a little fuck wit like Thomas who reads nothing but newspapers."
--Thomas Jefferson(http://wwwquotationspagecom/quotes/Thomas_Jefferson)

What is amusing is why someone would post on a friggin' blog board read by really savvy people the stuff little Thomas ahs posted.
Telling tall tales is of course a universal tradition.
But now we are in an age when people like Thomas engage in dumbschiht lies that are objectively provable as such.
The question for me is 'why do people do what they know will be caught so quickly?'
Or are they part of the group that would rather see America destroyed than W possibly be right?
Either way, Thomas is dipschiht and deserves whatever bad karma he will get for his trouble.

Might I suggest you take that aluminum hat off and begin reading...and talking less?

Thomas, I defer to your superior knowledge of aluminum foil hats.

Well, in all fairness to (John) Thomas, I'm impressed he's even able to read, what with his head being wedged up his ass and all.

It'll probably get more play than the play this will get on Ace.

Just sayin'.

Jason

"It's not clear who originally came up with the idea, but the plan [to give Tehran nuclear blueprints] was first approved by Clinton."

Yeah, Clinton considered such an act, but never followed through...probably because he listened to someone who knew more than he...but...now that they have the plans...who was president when they were actually GIVEN TO THE IRANIANS?? (2004)

Why not quite blaming Clinton for this G.W.'s mistakes...and take responsibility for supporting this moron??

Oh, I forgot...this is a Bush Suckfest.

Isn't in interesting how suddenly there's a whole new crop of trolls who (coincidentally, of course) use a lot of ellipses and are quite fond of the phrase "Bush Suckfest." Why, if I didn't know any better, I'd think it was one moonbat posting under several different names.

Brad,
Wellllllll, excuuuuuuse me, asshole...I said NYT instead of the L.A. Times.

Would you like to bet some $$ on whether I've read the book?

Let me know and we'll make arrangements.

Also...whether you or anybody else believes me...Bush's CIA handed over he fucking plans in 2004.

Eh, NY Times, LA Times, might just as well be the same paper.

But why should we believe you, Thomas? You have yet to offer any proof other than "because I said so!"

zetetic,
Instead of using inane labels like "moonbat," why not think about pulling your head out of Bush's ass for a few minutes and thinking for yourself.

If you things are all peaches and cream right now, that's your opinion...but how about some facts that back it up?

Calling anybody who disagrees with Bush a moonbat or liberal or troll merely amplifies the fact that you have none of your own.

January 7,
Proof of what? I didn't write the article or the book.

Oh, wait, I see...if it was published in the L.A. Times or NYT's...and you didn't hear it from Rush, COulter, O'Reilly, Hannity or Savage...it just can't be true.

Like I said before...this is no more than a fucking Bush Suckfest...see no evil, hear no evil.

Also...whether you or anybody else believes me...Bush's CIA handed over he fucking plans in 2004.

Um...

Thomas?

Is it ok if James Risen doesn't believe you? Because, see...

He was the one that wrote, "The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets. The Russian had good reason to be afraid. He was walking around Vienna with blueprints for a nuclear bomb."

Jason,
You've got that right.

Doggie-Style,
Can you READ??????????????????

From Risen's book...and please note, the author of the book evidently believes it took place in 2004...but, hey, give the man a call...you seem to think you know everything. (Yes, the fucking "story" dates back to 2000, but what does that have to with the actual "hand-over"???)

"In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency."

Poor Thomas got owned. Now he's having to latch onto non-sequiturs from other lefty posters.

Sue Dohnim,
Really?

Give me an example.

Operation Merlin. 2000. CIA. Tehran. Clinton Administration.

Yeah, whatever, Geno...oops, I mean Jersey...oh damn, I meant Thomas. Whether you or anybody else believe me, you're a moonbat. You can deny it all you want, but you're a worthless BDS-afflicted troll with multiple personalities. Now go fuck yourself.

By the way, I respect the way you continue to believe you're right even when proven time and time again to be wrong. You're consistently wrong, but at least you're consistent.

Lol...

"You can lead a moonbat to the truth, but you can't make him see it" Thomas Jefferson

Sue Dohnim,
Good God...YOU ARE DENSE.

Everybody who's read the articles or book knows when the "planning" or even the considerations of such action took place, moron...Risen talks about it in the book.

The point of our postings have related to "when" the plans were actually given to the Iranians. Carrying the plans around or talking about the plans has no bearing on the Iranians actually HAVING THE FUCKING THINGS.
(It's hard to design bombs or just about anything...just knowing someone, somewhere has the plans...duh.)

You and Doggie-Style should take the same reading course.

Here's another funny. The Guardian (you know, that British bastion of Bush bashing - mmm, alliteration) has this same story, but the headline is a hilarious attempted spin against Bush:

George Bush insists that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. So why, six years ago, did the CIA give the Iranians blueprints to build a bomb?

Uhhh, attention British nitwits, maybe you forgot that six years ago, Clinton was the one in the freakin' White House? Hello?

You and Doggie-Style should take the same reading course.

As long as it's not from the school you dropped out of, Copernicus McEinstein.

Doggie-Style,
Soooooooooooooo, were's that evidence that Clinton was president when the plans were actually handed over.
Bitching about Clinton planning or discussing such have nothing to do with the plans being delivered.

But, as usual...you talk the talk, but have no intention of walking the walk. (And employing Sue (whoever it really is) to help you out...pitiful)

Get some evidence or facts...or move on.

Tommy tosses tenuous tidbits to tease troll-thunkers. Talks trash. Tells tales. Ta ta!

[It is aliteration night, isn't it?]

Brew,
Actually it's alliteration, but in the case of the bloggers I find here: illiterate would be more precise.

You know, when Thomas began objecting that this actually happened on Bush's watch, I almost put up a correction/clarification.

I should have fuckin' known better.

I've read the articles, Thomas. They say not just that the planning took place in 2000, but that's when the Russian was dispatched to Vienna to deliver it.

It speaks of another intelligence goof in 2004 -- a CIA agent giving away our whole Iranian network -- but the Iran-bomb thing happened in 2000.

Further, the article says that Bush then endorsed the same operation for use against OTHER countries, LIKE NORTH KOREA.

Done deal, dude.

Why the fuck did I think for one second one of these people was capable of reading a fucking paragraph and comprehending it?

Well Thomas, you are still quoting the article and not the actual book.

Again, it wasn't an excerpt of the book you read it was an article about the book.

It wasn't the NYT, is was the LA Times.

You've said at least twice now that "Clinton's people merely discussed all kinds of options", yet according to Risen the Russian scientist was in Vienna, in Feb. 2000 with the nuclear blue prints, with orders to sell or give the blue prints to the Iranians.

So Clinton and his people obviously did more than just "discuss options". They(he) approved this operation. So, did the Russian scientist just wander around Europe for 4 years until Bush was President and then hand over the blue prints?

Read the Guardian story posted above that states the blue print hand over happened 6 years ago(that would be the year 2000)

The only thing in print that claims it happened in 2004 is the LA Times article.

So no, you haven't read the book yet.

Soooooooooooooo, were's that evidence that Clinton was president when the plans were actually handed over.
Bitching about Clinton planning or discussing such have nothing to do with the plans being delivered.

Well you might be right. It was the standard m.o. of the Clinton administration to have agencies working on named operations that did absolutely nothing.

Operation Merlin: getting altered nuke bomb plans and just waving them at Beltway passers-by. - Thomas Jefferson announcing foreign policy changes to Congress, 1799.

Lol...

They don't call 'em MOONBATS for nothin'!

As long as it's not from the school you dropped out of, Copernicus McEinstein.

lol!

ace,
"They say not just that the planning took place in 2000, but that's when the Russian was dispatched to Vienna to deliver it."

BUT...when was it delivered to the Iranians?

I'll say this one more time: Presidents do ALL kinds of planning, dispatch people to do ALL kinds of things...but...they also change their minds, alter such plans, or cancel them entirely (Bush wanting to bomb Al Jazeera)...unless of course, you're trying to tell me this Russion was holding onto the plans for four fucking years?????

What, the Iranian contact's line was busy? Cell phone battery ran down? Nobody home?

I have already said that, yes...Clinton talked the talk (and so does the Risen in the book), but talking IS NOT the same as executing the actual operation.

Does EVERYBODY understand that????????????????????

Brew,
Actually it's alliteration

A spelling flame? From the guy who screwns his sister? lol!

Sue Dohnim,
Oh, I love it.

You're trapped like a fucking rat, know that you're wrong...then try to spin it into how Clinton COULD have done it, but just didn't have the guts.

Absolutely pitiful.

Brew,
"screwns"???

Duh.

Thomas,

Hello.

Does EVERYBODY understand that????????????????????

Ok, I'm laying 3-to-1 odds that Thomas is dressed in an XXL pair of pink bunny rabbit pajamas, complete with ears and feet, just like Ralphie got for Christmas, and he's standing on his front porch, screaming at the house across the street.

And his Mom's inside, crying and begging him to come in out of the cold.

So, who's in?

I think this answers the question of that whole human singularity thing Bill was hot for. If this Thomas bot is any indication, we've got a long fucking way to go before we get into primate intellectual territory.

I like the way he's signed in under his various guises so it looks like people are agreeing with him.

You're trapped like a fucking rat, know that you're wrong...

Let's see, hysterical untrue claim, then non-sequiturs, now projection. I don't have my moronic lefty playbook handy, guys, can anyone tell me what the next tactic is? The programmer for this bot wasn't a clever fellow at all.

[snip]I'm sorry, Dude, but calling anyone a fag (and yes, I know, I did it today with BewFan, but after he intimated I was screwning my sister.)[snip]

Posted by Jersey at January 7, 2006 04:14 PM

Well, I'm done for the night.

After fending off (and holding my own) against the entire fucking blog...I need some booze.

I'll stop by later, after somebody provides ANY evidence Bill Clinton was president when the bomb plans were handed over...or...and I can't imagine this ever happening...somebody has the guts to admit I'm right.

GFL on both counts.

Well, I'm done for the night.

Thorazine's finally kicking in, eh?

After fending off (and holding my own) against the entire fucking blog

Translated from moonbat: "After getting my ass handed to me on several different points, it's so sore I really need to take a break and get some Preparation H."

Well, Thomas and Jersey, the Guardian has an ACTUAL EXCERPT OF THE BOOK, unlike the LA Times article. So, if you had actually read the book, you would know that you are wrong.

But it's worse than that. Deep in the bowels of the CIA, someone must be nervously, but very privately, wondering: "Whatever happened to those nuclear blueprints we gave to the Iranians?"

The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets. The Russian had good reason to be afraid. He was walking around Vienna with blueprints for a nuclear bomb.....
.......In Vienna, however, the Russian unsealed the envelope with the nuclear blueprints and included a personal letter of his own to the Iranians. No matter what the CIA told him, he was going to hedge his bets. There was obviously something wrong with the blueprints - so he decided to mention that fact to the Iranians in his letter. They would certainly find flaws for themselves, and if he didn't tell them first, they would never want to deal with him again.

The Russian was thus warning the Iranians as carefully as he could that there was a flaw somewhere in the nuclear blueprints, and he could help them find it. At the same time, he was still going through with the CIA's operation in the only way he thought would work.

The Russian soon found 19 Heinstrasse, a five-storey office and apartment building with a flat, pale green and beige facade in a quiet, slightly down-at-heel neighbourhood in Vienna's north end. Amid the list of Austrian tenants, there was one simple line: "PM/Iran." The Iranians clearly didn't want publicity. An Austrian postman helped him. As the Russian stood by, the postman opened the building door and dropped off the mail. The Russian followed suit; he realised that he could leave his package without actually having to talk to anyone. He slipped through the front door, and hurriedly shoved his envelope through the inner-door slot at the Iranian office.

The Russian fled the mission without being seen. He was deeply relieved that he had made the hand-off without having to come face to face with a real live Iranian. He flew back to the US without being detected by either Austrian security or, more importantly, Iranian intelligence.

Just days after the Russian dropped off his package at the Iranian mission, the National Security Agency reported that an Iranian official in Vienna abruptly changed his schedule, making airline reservations to fly home to Iran. The odds were that the nuclear blueprints were now in Tehran.

http://www(dot)guardian(dot)co(dot)uk/iran/story/0,12858,1678220,00.html

You didn't hold your own, you didn't fend anyone off, it didn't happen in 2004, which all proves you LIED REPEATEDLY ABOUT READING THE BOOK.

You merely repeated what you read in the LA Times article.

FOUND MY HANDBOOK! Okay, page 35 says:

TACTIC 5: Retreat and declare victory

If projection fails, then your only recourse is to limp off with your head held high and tail between your legs [...]

Blah blah blah, France, blah blah... OH here we go, next one:

TACTIC 6: Parting potshots.

Tactic 5 may not be enough to win against the hardcore wingnuts. You should feel free to come back at least one more time to deliver potshots. You may use any one or combination of the first four tactics (Big Lie, ad hominem, non-sequitur, projection,) or freestyle it for extra "cool" points.

Thanks for getting that URL for the Guardian story, Brad, I hadn't realized I massed that up before. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Grrrrrrrr it's MESSED MESSED MESSED! I'm giving these stupid fingers a rest, damn it.

Yeah, but does the Guardian story have lots of big drawings?

If not, we're all just spinning our wheels.

I can't imagine this ever happening...somebody has the guts to admit I'm right.

I can't imagine that happening either. I mean, first of all, you'd have to be right about something.

Nice work, Brad! I declare you the winner of tonight's round of Whack-a-Troll™.

You know, the really sad thing about Jersey/Thomas/Gene/Geno/Etc is that he's simply too fucking stupid to know when he's wrong.

He's too fucking stupid to know when he's not fooling anyone with his name changes.

He's too fucking stupid to know when he's been had.

He's too fucking stupid to know when he's making a fool of himself.

Sure, it makes for great reading at first. Dave in Texas absolutely murdered this guy, and he kept coming back for more.

But dammit, this needs closure. And Thomas just isn't smart enough to suffer his humiliating defeat.

Haha, jesus. So since this Russian defector decided to do his own thing, there wouldn't even have been any way for Bush to have stopped this guy. So, why didn't Clinton put a stop to it, Thomas?

It's "harebrained." If the typo was his, it doesn't say much about the publisher's QC.

And the left wonders why they keep getting beat at the polls? Maybe nobody trusts them?

An individual, later exposed as a moonbat, questions the factual basis of Ace's post and Ace's instinct says double check and be prepared to walk it back. The left still celebrates Rather. As someone that swings both ways (my war support is from the Michael Totten left) depending on the issue, I find the democrats simply ask me to swallow too much on too many issues to be trusted without a major leadership overhaul.

Thomas-

I hope I am the first to tell you that James Risen is on Meet The Press discussing Operation Merlin. He just stated that the operation took place 6 years ago.

Game. Set. Match.

He also seems unconcerned that the CIA has condemed him for essentially outing a CIA operation and putting the lives of CIA operatives in jeopardy. Funny, I thought you lefties were all about frog marching off to jail people who leaked the identies of CIA operatives.

The plans were handed over to the IRANIANS in 2004.

READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

And...when did you morons start using the Guardian to shore up you inane arguments? I thought the Guardian was nothing more than a left wing rag??

You idiots will say or do ANYTHING to stay on message.

Dolts...all.

Thomas, you are back?

The Guardian has an ACTUAL EXCERPT FROM THE BOOK.

What I posted was taken directly from the book.

Please scroll up and read my last post, then come back.

"Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.", James Risen

Note: the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran.

Duh.

"Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.", James Risen

Note: the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran.

Duh.

"Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.", James Risen

Note: the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran.

Duh.

"Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.", James Risen

Note: the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran.

Duh.

Again, you are quoting from an article about the book. Hence the words "according to a new book".

I have posted the actual story from an excerpt from the actual book found on the Guardian website.

At this point I can't believe you are actually serious and the fact that you keep quoting an article about the book instead of the actual book further proves you haven't read the book.

I've NEVER denied Clinton's part in developing, the plans, sending someone to deliver the plans, meeting with people along with the plans, or even being caught with the plans.

My SINGLE POINT IS THIS: The plans were HANDED OVER TO THE IRANIANS IN 2004. -READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

"Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.", James Risen

Note: the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran.

Duh.

READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

Maybe if you quoted directly from the book, rather than an article, you'd have a little more credibility. As Brad has so patiently pointed out. As he has also pointed out, the fact that you keep re-posting the same paragraph from the same LA Times article is definitive proof that you've never read the book yourself. So why don't you take your own advice and come back to us when you've sorted this out?

Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-****** bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.", James Risen

"This book that you hold in your hands right now, this very book, State of War, has a dateline and mentions itself recursively. It also pictures of kitties and doggies. Finally, Thomas the commenter is an embarrassment to his species and to the American education system." - James Risen, reciting Thomas Jefferson's Presidential farewell speech

Read the book.

It also has pictures of kitties and doggies.

I think my keyboard's messed up, it keeps dropping entire words out of my sentences.

"I've NEVER denied Clinton's part in developing, the plans, sending someone to deliver the plans, meeting with people along with the plans, or even being caught with the plans."

Actually you did, a couple of times.

* "Clinton's people merely discussed all kinds of options,"

* "Yeah, Clinton considered such an act, but never followed through"

Again, you are quoting an article about the book. NOT THE ACTUAL BOOK.

I'll spoon feed it to you one more time. Here is what the ACTUAL BOOK SAYS:

The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets. The Russian had good reason to be afraid. He was walking around Vienna with blueprints for a nuclear bomb.....
.......In Vienna, however, the Russian unsealed the envelope with the nuclear blueprints and included a personal letter of his own to the Iranians. No matter what the CIA told him, he was going to hedge his bets. There was obviously something wrong with the blueprints - so he decided to mention that fact to the Iranians in his letter. They would certainly find flaws for themselves, and if he didn't tell them first, they would never want to deal with him again.

The Russian was thus warning the Iranians as carefully as he could that there was a flaw somewhere in the nuclear blueprints, and he could help them find it. At the same time, he was still going through with the CIA's operation in the only way he thought would work.

The Russian soon found 19 Heinstrasse, a five-storey office and apartment building with a flat, pale green and beige facade in a quiet, slightly down-at-heel neighbourhood in Vienna's north end. Amid the list of Austrian tenants, there was one simple line: "PM/Iran." The Iranians clearly didn't want publicity. An Austrian postman helped him. As the Russian stood by, the postman opened the building door and dropped off the mail. The Russian followed suit; he realised that he could leave his package without actually having to talk to anyone. He slipped through the front door, and hurriedly shoved his envelope through the inner-door slot at the Iranian office.

The Russian fled the mission without being seen. He was deeply relieved that he had made the hand-off without having to come face to face with a real live Iranian.He flew back to the US without being detected by either Austrian security or, more importantly, Iranian intelligence.

Just days after the Russian dropped off his package at the Iranian mission, the National Security Agency reported that an Iranian official in Vienna abruptly changed his schedule, making airline reservations to fly home to Iran. The odds were that the nuclear blueprints were now in Tehran.

http://www(dot)guardian(dot)co(dot)uk/iran/story/0,12858,1678220,00.html

IS IT REALLY THAT HARD TO FIGURE OUT?

Thomas, for GOD'S SAKE, will you PLEASE change out of that bunny pajama jump suit and let me run it through the wash???

How many days straight have you worn that thing?

And why is the crotch all wet?

If this is true then BILL CLINTON is a traitor and should be tried convicted and hung as a traitor

If which part is true?

And, yeah...we'll all get right on that.

Duh.

Clinton never followed through on the actual "delivery" of the plans.

Duh.

Oh...and maybe you could: READ THE FUCKING BOOK.

Read the fucking book....hmmm. So your response to me telling you I saw and heard the author say this happened 6 years ago is read the fucking book. Tell you what. Here is the transcript, how about you read that. Then you can answer my question about outing CIA operatives and endagering national security.

MR. RUSSERT: Another story that was not published by The Times that has created an uproar in the intelligence community was Operation MERLIN, which you talk about it in your book. And let me show it on the screen. “Operation MERLIN has been one of the most closely guarded secrets in the Clinton and Bush administrations. And it may not be over. Some officials have suggested it might be repeated against other countries. ... It’s not clear who originally came up with the idea, but the plan was first approved by President Bill Clinton. After the Russian scientist’s fateful trip to Vienna, however, the MERLIN operation was endorsed by the Bush administration, possibly with an eye toward repeating it against North Korea or other dangerous states.”

An operation where an agent would present fake blueprints to “help” Iran or another country build a nuclear bomb, but because it was fake, it would, in effect, delay their operation. The CIA has issued a very sharp comment about you, and let me read it. “It is most alarming that” the author “discloses information that he believes to be ongoing intelligence operations, including actions as critical as stopping dangerous nations from acquiring nuclear weapons. Setting aside whether what he wrote is accurate or inaccurate, it demonstrates an unfathomable and sad disregard for U.S. national security and those who take life-threatening risks to ensure it.”

By revealing this operation, which you acknowledge may be ongoing, aren’t you violating national security?

MR. RISEN: No, I don’t believe so. First of all, this operation in particular took place six years ago, well before—you know, long before 9/11. And the reason that I think it’s important to talk about this is because there are people who believed that it was mishandled, and it’s possible we actually aided the Iranian nuclear program rather than try to stop it; that this operation was conducted so poorly, it reflects the larger issue of one of the issues that I deal with in my book, which is the failure of the CIA to adequately deal with weapons of mass destruction and intelligence related to weapons of mass destruction. They now have a long history of repeated failures and repeated mistakes when you deal with—on WMD issues, as we saw in Iraq. And I think that the agency’s credibility on the issue of weapons of mass destruction has to be in question.

MR. RUSSERT: Aren’t you tipping the Iranians and the North Koreans as to what might be an ongoing operation?

MR. RISEN: I don’t believe so. I think that this—as I said, this operation took place six years ago, and I think Homer first revealed the sources and methods of the Trojan horse a long time ago.

Thomas,

Feel free to read and respond to my last post.

Thanks
Brad

I'm thinking Tommy deserves The Dumbest Troll Ever award, at least around these parts. Most trolls, when proven wrong, simply disappear. Tommy seems to enjoy the spanking. On second thought, maybe it should be The Most Perverted Troll Ever award.

Between the inane, inaccurate and exclusively right wing political comments, along with the even more inane comments about pajamas...and bunny suits???...why would anyone lend credence to anything you say?

I've posted on a number of the blogs at this site and have yet to hear a single negative comment about the Bush administration...which, considering the state of affairs right now...pretty much sums up the intellectual capacity of the contributors: dumb and dense.

Why not try yanking your heads out of G.W.'s ass...reading more...and talking less?

Baradley:
I saw Russert.

Risen never said a word during the interview that related to when the plans were ACTUALLY HANDED OVER.

Are they in your post? I don't think so.

READ THE "WHOLE" BOOK.

HI Thomas,

Please don't change the subject. We were discussing James Risen's book.

If you would be so kind, can you please explain to me how posting an excerpt from James Risen's book, that was on the Guardian website is inane, inaccurate or an exclusively right wing political comment.

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Brad

Thomas-

Brad posted excerpts from the book disproving your statements. I posted a transcrpt of an interview with Risen from today's MTP which disproves your statements. Yet you insist you read the book and we are lying morons.

I would submit that you are the one with the credibility issue.

That was JackStraw's post you responded too.

Please scoll up a bit farther. Should say 2:38pm at the bottom.

Thanks!
Brad

Hmmm, let's see now, on the one hand we have an excerpt from the Guardian and a transcript from Meet the Press which say that Tommy is a lying sack of shit.

On the other hand we have Tommy offering zilch proof of his claims.

The conclusion is inescapable: Tommy's full of shit.

January 8,
The dumb get even dumber...it's hard to belieive...

Show me where Risen says the plans were HANDED OVER TO THE IRANIANS anywhere in the Guardian's article or from Russert's transcript.

The initiation of Merlin was during Clinton, but the plans were ACTUALLY HANDED OVER IN 2004.

READ THE FUCKING BOOK, MORON.

Thomas,

You really cannot be serious at this point, can you?

The story from the book clearly states the Russian turned over the blueprints on his trip to Vienna in Feb 2000.

The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets. The Russian had good reason to be afraid. He was walking around Vienna with blueprints for a nuclear bomb.....

...In Vienna, however, the Russian unsealed the envelope with the nuclear blueprints and included a personal letter of his own to the Iranians....

..The Russian was thus warning the Iranians as carefully as he could that there was a flaw somewhere in the nuclear blueprints, and he could help them find it....

...He slipped through the front door, and hurriedly shoved his envelope through the inner-door slot at the Iranian office....

...The Russian fled the mission without being seen. He was deeply relieved that he had made the hand-off without having to come face to face with a real live Iranian...

Comments?

Disastrous Four Days In Iraq:
28 Americans Killed
Nearly 200 Iraqis Killed...

I have two comments for you, Thomass.

1) I know the American deaths are quite pleasing to you.

2) Get your own blog if you want start topics.

3) Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

It's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Thomas has not read the book and I doubt he saw Risen on Russert, like he claims, either.

All he is doing is pinning his entire point on the text from an LA Times article. Over, and over, and over again.

What is the stupider mistake, telling people to read a book he hasn't read himself, or relying on the LA TIMES for accuracy?

Thomas, is your sudden change of topics an admission of defeat? Finally?

Thomas I'm bored beating you about the head. Tell you what. Since you claim to have read the book how about you cite the page and provide the actual verbiage Risen used to state the plans were handed over in 2004.

Short I have that, I have to admit you have failed to sway me. I find your rebuttal, pithy thougt it may be, to be unconvincing.

Comments??

raq war could cost US over $2 trillion, says Nobel prize-winning economist

· Economists say official estimates are far too low
· New calculation takes in dead and injured soldiers

Jamie Wilson in Washington
Saturday January 7, 2006
The Guardian

The real cost to the US of the Iraq war is likely to be between $1 trillion and $2 trillion (£1.1 trillion), up to 10 times more than previously thought, according to a report written by a Nobel prize-winning economist and a Harvard budget expert.

Bart,
Blow me.

Can any of you dolts guess why...??

Aides to President George W. Bush are trying to identify all the photos that may exist of the President and lobbyist Jack Abramoff together, TIME’s White House Correspondents Mike Allen and Matt Cooper report in Monday editions

Thomass is finally being honest about his intentions.

I would imagine that they would want to get out in front of the pictures because they know that people such as yourself Thomas will attempt to use them as proof that Bush is entagled in this mess. Actual proof, say like the proof that Clinton took money for access from Johnny Chung who was acting as an agent of the Chinese gov't won't be required for you. A picture is all that is needed.

Right?

change of topic is as good as an admission of guilt

It's the best we'll ever get from him, Brad.

Bart,
"honest about his intentions"????

What, we're dating now?

Let's all be honest here.

Thomas knows he lost this debate long, long ago.

He knows there is no question that the handover of the blueprints took place in 2000.

He knows both the book and the the TV appearance confirm this.

He simply doesn't have the balls to admit his mistake.

Which means, of course, that absolutely nothing he says means anything, because he has no interest in dealing with the facts.

Doggie-Style:
"Let's all be honest here"???

Now, THAT would be interesting.

Any "honest" thoughts on the following?

How Bush is running the country right into the ground?
A war based on flat out lies?
Illegal wiretapping?
No WMD?
Torture?
Outing CIA agents?

We ALL know what I'll get back.

Heartfelt eulogies for one of you biggest heroes...Tommy Delay:

"For years, at the expense of the American people, the House Republicans have enabled and benefited from the Republican culture of corruption engineered by Tom DeLay. The culture of corruption is so pervasive in the Republican conference that a single person stepping down is not nearly enough to clean up the Republican Congress."

"Tom DeLay can no longer blame his troubles on a partisan witch hunt... He is not running for Majority leader because members of his own party were openly saying they would no longer tolerate his scandal and corruption. DeLay Inc. is no longer open for business, and that's a good thing for the people of Southeast Texas."

"Tom DeLay bears much of the responsibility for the culture of corruption Republicans have created in Washington, D.C., but his removal from House leadership alone will not end the pervasive cronyism and corruption that he and Washington Republicans created. His decision is a victory for the all those who believe in honest government."

I can't wait to see how many other assholes this asshole takes down with him.

Bravo, Thomass, for getting every single moonbat talking point in one post. And no links to "prove" anything either. Impressive! All bullshit, of course, but A for effort there.

Is it Fitzmas again already?

With some Donks, it's always Fitzmas.

Hmmm, stuck on Playbook Tactic 3.

How Bush is running the country right into the ground?

He's not. Unemployment is under 5%, among other things.

A war based on flat out lies?

You're lying.

Illegal wiretapping?

Nothing illegal about it. The Constitution, you know, the real one and not the one you guys like to make up on the fly, gives the president the power to gather foreign intellegence. And calls from Al Qaeda agents that originate outside the country are fair game even if they are calling into the US.

No WMD?

An unsanctioned Iraq with Saddam still in power would be unacceptable. And we do know that he had every intention of starting his weapon programs up once sanctions were lifted.

So, ya know, it doesn't really bother me that we got rid of him even though it turns out he didn't have stockpiles.

Torture?

When our guards have to wear gloves to handle a prisoner's holy book, I don't think you're in any sort of position to claim we're torturing too many people.

As for those extreme cases, well, being exposed to your stupidity causes me extreme discomfort and I demand that you stop torturing me with your inane bullshit, you fucking moron.

Outing CIA agents?

Man, like the CIA needs any help in doing THAT.

Has it occurred to you, you gibbering factless baboon, that spraying out lists of crap like a diarrheic fat man with a shower nozzle up his ass is no substitute for logic or reason?

Very succint, Sortelli. Too bad it's wasted on Thomass. He has become boring and thus no longer fun to play with.

Bring on the next troll!

... In my shame, I must admit that I'd been saving the line "a diarrheic fat man with a shower nozzle up his ass" and really wanted to use it. So it's the only reason I replied at all.

No shame, Sortelli, although if I were you I might have saved that one up for the next flame war. lol!

Bush sucks!...You all sucks Bush's dick!...I won the argument so all you Repukes can do is call people names...you reich-wing fascists!

I can respect that. Most of my posts have absolutely no purpose except to make a tiny little joke.

Heh. Frighteningly, I'm not sure if Thomjergeneo was a prank or not. Too close to reality.