Diamonds are not precious stones. The whole thing is a artificial market created by DeBeers. Farmers in Arkansas are paid not to mine the diamonds on their land.

Just so's you know.

I suggest diversifying with some gold, small denomination silver coins, and the ever-versatile .22LR caliber.

Somebody tell DeBeers that they'd better start paying me not to mine for diamonds in my apartment complex.

I doubt that we will ever achieve real AI, unless of course souls choose to inhabit computers.

We can make more and more sophisticated programs that mimic thought, but it just doesn't seem the same. My cat has a personality, my computer never will.

Honestly, I think our brains are just chemical radio receivers for our true mind, our soul. But, that's just me (and a few thoughtful scientists).

Did you listen to Kurzweil lecture, adolfo? We'll achieve it within 15 years.

I listened to the Kurzweil lecture, all except the question and answer session. He listed some great prospects for bio-engineering, but I don't remember being impressed by his thoughts on AI.

AI, in my opinion, can only mimic life and the minds of the programmers. The idea is kind of a devaluation of the mind and intelligence, if you ask me.

Before we rely too heavily on embedded RFID chips, we might want to think through the security aspects first.

At least criminals won't have to torture you for information. THey can go straight for cutting off fingers.

Wait, you mean someone can just cut off my fingers now and access all my passwords and house?

How great is that!!

Well, we'll achieve something pretty amazing within 15 years. But whether or not it counts as "real" artificial intelligence depends on what the definition of consciousness is, and we simply don't know yet what that really even means. We probably will know someday, though.

Well, we'll achieve something pretty amazing within 15 years. But whether or not it counts as "real" artificial intelligence depends on what the definition of consciousness is, and we simply don't know yet what that really even means. We probably will know someday, though.
Posted by SJKevin at January 6, 2006 03:27 PM

You've got a point. If intelligence is defined as the ability to learn data, then AI is fine. Perhaps I'm correlating mind and intelligence too much.

"It has to be something thought of as innocent, pure, without human flaws, who only wants what's best for humanity."

The Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man.

"That will turn on its Father/Creator (humanity) as Lucifer turned on his. Like Unholy Father, like Unholy Son."

For crying out loud, Lucifer is not the Son of God!

So it's more:

Like Not-Holy-But-Made-In-The-Image-Of-God Creator, like Had-Free-Will-And-Chose-To-Rebel-Just-Like-Lucifer Creation.

I'll grant you, your version is more euphonious.

God didn't create the angels?

yeah, the Bible calls them created beings.

God created the angels.

Everything is created except for the Trinity, unless you're a Jahova's Witness or a Muslim who believes Jesus was a created being.

"That will turn on its Father/Creator . . "

I think Victoria missed the Creator part of Ace's statement.

Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers, or is that just a mean lie that Baptists tell about them?

I may be mixing up Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. I do that from time to time.

Well, I for one welcome our new Intel Inside Pentium 666 Antichrist overlord!

Isn't the Anti-Christ supposed to miraculously recover from a 'head wound'? I guess the computer is supposed to crash and then get re-booted? Maybe someone just trips over the power cord and unplugs it? WTF?

Yes, God created Lucifer. But the Bible clearly delineates between a Creator/Creation relationship and a Father/Son relationship. In New Testament Theology, not even humans earn the status of being God's Children unless they acknowledge Christ (see John 1:12).

I listened to the Kurzweil lecture, all except the question and answer session. He listed some great prospects for bio-engineering, but I don't remember being impressed by his thoughts on AI.

AI, in my opinion, can only mimic life and the minds of the programmers. The idea is kind of a devaluation of the mind and intelligence, if you ask me.

your opinion is based on a subjective, intuitive and romantic definition of the "soul."

If you look at evolution of organic systems drily - as the accumulated complexity of an information coding system (DNA) - the individual components of which are a mere four different nitrogen-containing compounds (A,G,T,C) - it's more easy to see the mind as just a software program with acquired structural complexity. The fact that any information coding is "organic" vs. "non-organic" could very well be immaterial.

There is a computing term called Cellular autonoma, which basically sets up a program wherein an array of cells can exist in a finite number of states, proliferating and updated in certain discrete time periods according to a finite number of hard and fast rules, rules dependent on the state of the cells surrounding each individual cell.

Modeled in biological systems, using the four nitrogen-containing compounds contained in DNA and setting this model in motion, a mathematician (his name escapes me) has shown how relatively complex patterns have arisen out of randomness, assuming the application of non-random rules. This is a model for how "random" evolution has coded intelligence (human and otherwise) via proteins, as well as all biological systems.

If you grasp this concept and then apply it to a situation where we have computing machines that are powerful enough to mimic the structure of advanced biological brains - given that brains are comprised of a set of information instructions - then it is pretty plausible that machines can generate consciousness at some point.

Because that's what we are. Pieces of information with operating instructions, everything from how our synapses fire to how our toenails grow.

your opinion is based on a subjective, intuitive and romantic definition of the "soul."

When we want your opinion, Bill, we'll write it on our cocks and shove it up your ass.

a mathematician (his name escapes me) has shown how relatively complex patterns have arisen out of randomness

Stephen Wolfram.

My only question: where does the magical talking lion fit into all this?

"Incidentally, is there any evidence the Antichrist will be human? With the coming singularity (in five years!), there might be an incredible artificial intelligence on earth. That will turn on its Father/Creator (humanity) as Lucifer turned on his. Like Unholy Father, like Unholy Son. "

You mean, like. . . Cylons???

(Premiere tonight, baby!)

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

TEH MATRIXX HAZ U BILL

Funny thing is that John Conway was there a lot longer before Wolfram was. Something called "The Game of Life" (not the board game, the cellular automata). Conway made it up along with a whole bunch of other things to mess around with.

Anyway, not something worth a 2000-page tome.

And I don't come to Ace of Spades for a theological debate.

I see your Stephen Wolfram and raise you Roger Penrose

Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons believe that St. Michael is a brother of Jesus. But I haven't actually googled to find out which. I think I've heard the Lucifer as brother of Jesus thing about one of them, also.

But most of Christianity differentiates between a creation of God, which can become a child of God, and the Son of God, who is Jesus Christ alone.

It's a Christian thing.

Probably Mormons, Victoria.
Marriage is the highest of sacraments to them, so God is married and had kids (Lucifer and Jesus among them), Jesus got married to Mary Magdleane (sp?), and Satan got hitched to Saddam. And if they get married properly, they can become Gods themselves.

Roger Penrose is a brilliant man, Sue. That, of course, doesn't make him right. But it means people should think twice before dismissing AI skeptics outright.

The phrase "THE Antichrist" is a piece of popery. Anything against Christ is anti-Christ. Point out that certain institutions are intrinsically anti-Christ, and they like to squeal that you just called the Pope "THE Antichrist". GAH, woman, that's not what I said!!!

In apocalyptic prophecy, "beast" usually refers to a political entity, like the alliance of the Medes and Persians. Such entities are generally headed by a person, even if only as a figurehead. I believe that the head of the beast will be a man, and this man who is the head of the beast will be gravely wounded, but it would be a huge coincidence if it happened to be an actual headwound.

From the way it sounded in the bible, Anti-Christ, in my opinion, is a adjective, not a noun. Yeah, chances are the bad side will have a figurehead, but I think the real battle will be a moral one.

Dont forget that the number on june 6th of this year will be the number of the antichrist

Others are right about the idea of an anti-Christ. I'm quite sure it never appears in the Bible singularly, but is always a plural. The Beast, either a person, country, etc. is the one to watch out for.

I'm quite sure it never appears in the Bible singularly, but is always a plural.

Dale:

Well, not exactly. For example:

(1 John 2:18 NIV) Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

So, the Beast is regarded the ultimate individual antichrist, and is sometimes given that name with a capital A.

For those of you who are confused by the 1 John quote, perhaps I should explain that "last hour" refers to what Christians call the Church Age, now 200+ years and counting. In a similar fashion, Isaiah referred to the same historical period as the "day of the Lord."

The Book of Revelations says that the Antichrist will be perceived almost universally as "good." Let's face it-- there is no human being that will ever be perceived almost universally as good.

I am. Except by the people who know me, that is.

James

All this arguing over consciousness and souls and theological distinctions. Can we agree that giving an AI the launch codes to our nukes is a BAD thing? C'mon people, I can't be the only one who saw the movie, right?

I don't mind letting the AI have the keys to my big box o' porn, but the gun cabinet is "organics only" territory.

Ancient joke, circa 1960:

Military connects all the most powerful computers together, self-programming, voice response, the whole works.

Big ceremony, turn the thing on, top general asks, "Is there a God?"

Lightning bolt fuses the power switch.

Mighty voice heard around the world says, "There is now!"