When in the course of Human Events it becomes necessary for me to pose blog entries like a viking, I'll do it.

---Thomas Jefferson

Pose = Post. Damn this infernal contraption. Where's Ben Franklin and his printing press when you need him?

---Thomas Jefferson

Hey Tommy J.! You be in a small room with three guys blocking your way and telling you you can't leave until you fuck them. She's not required to get her face smashed in to have been raped.

I hate these people from the 60s. More and more are up for parole and getting out of prison these days. Shoot a cop and there's a good chance there is a parade and an interview with Katie Couric these days.

Huh. I imagine we'll hear the outcry from the feminists any second now ...

Well, first I wrote it was a rape then I rewrote it. She uses the term "psychological rape," which means pressure, not coercion, and basically he guilted her into doing it (with some amount of coercion, in that he wouldn't let her leave).

But she doesn't really call it actual rape so I don't think I can either.

Yeah, he wouldn't let her leave, but then, he also didn't say he would do anything bad to her if she just sat there and waited it out.

It's ambiguous and I'm not comfortable hurling the rape accusation, especially since the victim herself really doesn't.

Besides, I don't have much room to talk, what with Sally Hemmings and all.

In my unabashed hatred for Ayer and his ilk, I pressed the post button too soon:

I hate these people from the 60s. More and more are up for parole and getting released. Shoot a cop and there's a good chance there is a parade and an interview with Katie Couric waiting for you when you get out.

Can anyone reccomend any good books on groups like the Weather Underground, Red Army Faction, etc.?

No, I think that is rape. Locking the door, blocking her exit, and saying 'if you want to ge out of here' isn't much different than holding her down. It's physical restraint either way.

Ace, looks like you misspelled "Fetid" in the headline.

Oh, wait...you're talking French.

Technically, aren't the described actions also grounds for the criminal offense of "unlawful detention"?

It's been a while since I looked at the crim code definitions, but it seems like it might fit.

I had the unfortunate experience of being acquainted with some SDS and Weather Underground people as a student at Columbia. They tended to take advantage of anyone who appeared vulnerable, physically or psychologically. I wouldn't trust any of them, then or now.

Is this a thread relating to the politics of the man or whether he raped someone...40 years ago?

To me it sounds a tad more political than legal.

And I hate to ask it, but why hasn't she mentioned this before, or has she?

It's definitely false imprisonment. But I don't know that some pressure -- screw my black friend to prove you're not a racist -- constitutes rape, even with the door locked.

It's definitely nasty behavior, close to rape. But I don't know if it's actually rape.

Again, it's hard to call it that when even the victim doesn't. There's not really a charge of "psychological rape."

-- Thomas Jefferson, Legal Scholar

Yep. Aaaaaaaany second now.

I think that everything we learned about the Sixties in public school was a lie. I only regret that I'll be too old to enjoy our country when every last hippie has died in their bitter old age.

From what I read, there was a lot of coersive sex back then -- including between male members of the group. You were expected to fuck every one in the group, participate in orgies, and fuck people of the same sex. It was all this breaking down taboos shit. None of it was voluntary.

More sex tales from the prudish right. Anybody seen Jeff Gannon lately?

From what I read, there was a lot of coersive sex back then

What can I say? We ran the show.

asshole, listen up: It's not a "sex tale," it's an "ambiguous rape tale."

Can you tell the difference, asshole?

by the way, as for the prudish right, this is the most popular post on this site.

Ummmm....maybe I shouldn't be saying this on a blog, but if I'm married to that woman and she tells me this story, then Bill Ayers ceases to exist very shortly afterwards.

Oh, when I said there was coercive sex between members of the group, group refers to SDS and the Weathermen.

Yes, there are book on them but the names escape me. You can find quite a bit of info on the internet including the FBI files and criticisms by former members. There is also a website by some one writing a book on the Red Faction Army that has quite a bit of info, too.

"...then Bill Ayers ceases to exist very shortly afterwards."

I'm thinking that would be worth some jail time.

Oh, and that sound you just heard? That was the wound of hundreds of angry feminists hitting the "publish" button on their blogs, to post condemnations of Ayers and his ilk. It will only take a few more moments for them to become available. Any second now...

Sorry, that last post should have included my customary hat-tip to Sue Dohnim.

"Can anyone reccomend any good books on groups like the Weather Underground, Red Army Faction, etc.?"

I highly recommend "Destructive Generation: Second Thoughts About the 60's" by Horowitz & Collier. "Shadow of the Panther," about the Black Panthers, is also an eye-opener.

Am I the only one who sees a parallel between the "prove you're not a racist by screwing a black guy" routine that 60s radicals used to get some poontang, and the "prove you're not a homophobe by seeing Brokeback Mountain" routine that is going around today?

All this goes to prove there is absolutely nothing good that can occur after Glenn Yarborough gets put on the record player.

The infamous weatherman underground and some of thier big time extremists are still out there teaching at universities and collages its time to boot the radicals out

Damn these NOW activists, I'm still waiting for the outrage.

For get your bitch ass back in the office and make me a blog post!

/cartman

Actually, Warden...he'd cease to exist, but it wouldn't be quick.

For = Now
when I'm off my meds....

Am I the only one who sees a parallel between the "prove you're not a racist by screwing a black guy" routine that 60s radicals used to get some poontang, and the "prove you're not a homophobe by seeing Brokeback Mountain" routine that is going around today?

No, Alex, a parallel would be if you were forced to have sex with a gay man in order to prove you're not a homophobe.

Dang it Ace, that's a rape.
She was not free to leave. She faced injury or worse if she tried to leave or continued to refuse.
Her natural instinct was to do what ever was necessary to gain a way out of that room.

Many years ago, I sheltered a woman from the apartment next door. Her boyfriend had given her a savage beating (and had probably raped her as well, although she never said anything to me about it). This crazy-violent nutcase hammered on my door for fifteen solid minutes while threatening to get a gun and shoot the lock off the door. I told him that I had a gun, and that if he didn't fuck off posthaste, I'd let some daylight into him. Finally the cops showed up and arrested the dude.

And you know what? This chick -- battered, bruised, beat to shit, bleeding, and probably not for the first time -- would not press charges. She actually went home from the hospital in this shit-stain's car. Two months later I came home to find an ambulance crew taking this woman out of her apartment on a gurney, stone dead. The guy had finally killed her.

I just don't get it. I'll bet you that had she survived the latest beating, she'd have remained with the man who killed her.

Anyway, that story reminded me of that poor woman. I'm not sure what other relevance it has.

Susan Stern. With the Weathermen. More of a who fucked who tell all. I mean, really, the hell with the ridiculous politics of the time, just cut to the orgies.

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/sds/susanstern.html

"She faced injury or worse if she tried to leave or continued to refuse. "

did I miss reading something, or are you reading something that isn't there?

True story: when I found out Dohrn was out of hiding and working for a prestigious university, I got upset. Soooo, I called the FBI. I asked the guy who answered why they didn't do anything about her and what they were planning to do to lock her up. The guy set me straight: "If we're doing or planning anything, we're certainly not going to tell you." In retrospect, duh!

Ah, the stupidity of youth. Of course, the only reason they came out of hiding was because the statute of limitations had expired.

Still, the fact that academia would hire known anti-American terrorists does not speak well about academia.

Bill Ayers raped me too!

And he liked it when I called him Daddy. And I did call him Daddy. Because I was hungrey.

Ah, yes, the "free-spirited" and "sexually open" 1960's and 1970's. The time period when skyrocketing divorce rates, herpes and AIDS, and massive illegitimacy races first began. Oh, how women benefited from the shift in attitudes when men figured out they were not only allowed to sleep around without negative consequences, but were expected to sleep around as much as possible.

Oh, how happy that made everyone! And by "everyone", I mean sexual predators, amoral polyamours looking for validation, and Charles Manson.

And oh, how happy I am that well into the 1980's, I had parents so strict that overnight dates, coed dorms, and birth control pills in high school were out of the question.

Of course, the only reason they came out of hiding was because the statute of limitations had expired.

I believe they came out of hiding and negotiated sweetheart deals because they were tired of living underground and Regan was elected but not sworn in yet.

So the looseness and openness is bad, and the strictness is also bad. Was there anything good, Kimberly? Bunny slippers? Kittens? WKRP?

That bitch Juanita Broaddrick really had it coming, didn't she, Jersey?

Thank you, anonymous. I didn't know that. It makes more sense now.

"did I miss reading something, or are you reading something that isn't there?"

Jeez, ace, he told her to sleep with his roommates, physically blocked her from leaving and locked the door. What do you think he was doing, creating an obstacle course? "He said that I had no choice but to do as he said if I wanted to get out of there." There's your threat of violence.

The poor woman's movement was illegally arrested, which constitutes assault by the legal definition. At that point, whatever else happened to her could very reasonably be argued as non-consensual, including sex. Seems like rape to me.

Some of those Weather Underground guys at Columbia are still knocking around that neighborhood, about as burned-out and cynical as you'd expect.

Oh, my bad Ace, locking her in and saying she can't leave until she bumits to sex with two strange men in the room carries no implied threat of violence. I'm sure they just wanted to make sure she styed for the fine champagne-ya.

Cause you know, since one of the men is someone she thought she could trust has suddenly gone fucking nuts and turned on her, she can predict they won't start getting rough if she doesn't placate.

I mean, all she had to think about was the * possibility*
of what he might do if she didn't act cool and play along.

If rape is so bad, women have an obligation to fight to the death, you know, or at least risk some facial bruising for it to be real. She should at least be willing to RISK a beating. And it's really unfair of her to consider 3:1 odds with bigger, stonger guys if she tries to make a break for it, when they haven't even shown her a knife or anything.

That's why the pakistani's are so smart. They make sure a woman has no incentive to survive a rape. She has to fight em off with honor, and not have the "live with it" option.

"You can't leave" is false imprisonment by force, a form of assault.

"You can't leave unless you screw my friend" is sexual coercion by force, a form of sexual assault, i.e. rape.

Ace/Jersey: Imagine a big 400-lbs guy locks you in and bars the door and says "You have purty lips. Bend over and squeal like a pig while me and my friend screw you or I'm not lettin you out." Don't think that's rape?

Sarah,

she can predict they won't start getting rough

You're on the right side of this argument, but whether he "gets rough" is beside the point. As soon as he bars her exit, he's already assaulted her. Adding in sex makes it rape.