You mean running down America and demanding that the number one priority in war is the treatment of our enemies isn't a winning strategy?

Wow. Who knew?

The best thing the Republican Party has going for it is the Democratic Party. Unfortunately, they can't stay this stupid forever. Or can they?

They aren't showing any sign yet of changing course. I still think they're gonna back away from this NSA futz.

Heck, I have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party. My problem is that there aren't enough of them pointing out loudly that the Iraq War was a huge mistake, that the country is being driven into the ground by the GOP, and that Bush is a moron. That's the reason that they're viewed almost as unfavorably as the Republicans.

Totally. What Americans really want is more Kos.

Bush bad! Him wishes him was smart like me am! Saddam Hussein am nice guy and me hope he return to power soon.

My problem is that there aren't enough of them pointing out loudly that the Iraq War was a huge mistake

TRUTH TO POWER, BOB.

GO BOBBY, ITS YOUR BIRTHDAY, GO BOBBY,

Sincerely people.
They have. No. Clue.

It's like, I'm a Republican, right?

And naturally, I want to give Howie 'Dream Machine' Dean the biggest megaphone on the planet, right?

And, like, the Democrats want the exact same thing.

Its like, they're our friends, you know?

Neither party (Rep or Dem) is doing a good job in the political arena.

I still think they're gonna back away from this NSA futz.

Sure, now that they've shit in the room and the stink has done its damage, they're going to deny responsibility.

The ultimate "blame the dog" trick.

Where are the headlines, Where is the outrage? One hundred and ninety three cops killed in 2005, right here in the good old U.S. of A. I've heard of cops getting killed in Iraq, but not the ones killed right in the neighborhood. Well i'll take that back, we did have one that made the news for a couple of days when he was murdered in plain site of several witnesses, not in a fight, shot in the face by a criminal for no reason. And the U.S. media is not biased against the United States as a whole, give me a break. Reading the NYT or Pravda is the same, All anti-american.

Heck, I have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party. My problem is that there aren't enough of them pointing out loudly that the Iraq War was a huge mistake, that the country is being driven into the ground by the GOP, and that Bush is a moron.

Get busy then, Bob. Get those Dems heading left faster then they already are. Maybe next time you can nominate Michael Moore for president! Wouldn't that be sweet!

Lipstick, more of a "run it up the flagpole" and see if anybody salutes approach. The Dems can read polls as well as anyone, and can see it not only isn't gaining traction, it's backfiring.

They drop those things pretty fast.

Heck, I have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party. My problem is that there aren't enough of them pointing out loudly that the Iraq War was a huge mistake, that the country is being driven into the ground by the GOP, and that Bush is a moron. That's the reason that they're viewed almost as unfavorably as the Republicans.

Can I get a "yeaaargh!" from the congregation on this one!

Question: What is the opposite of Fitzmas?

Answer: US Justice Dep to investigate unauthorized disclosure of classified material Reuters is reporting that the US Justice Department will investigate unauthorized disclosure of classified material related to NSA, sources say. Hope Judy's cell has been kept warm. Maybe there should be a NYTimes wing built. Happy New Year

As I understand it, the Democratic Party and the media intend to win the war on terror by 1) publishing the details of our counter-intelligence operations, 2) identifying crazed religious beheaders as insurgents and minutemen, 3) identifying our soldiers as terrorists, Nazis and torturers, 4) attacking our commander-in-chief as a liar, a Halliburton stooge and obsessed with oil, 5) repealing the Patriot Act, 6) withdrawing from Iraq, 7) ending support for Israel, 8) ceasing the nefarious policy of testing mosques for radiation, and 9) preventing our military from recruiting on campuses. It’s an interesting strategy.

Imagine a politician/media organization with a track record against African-Americans akin to the Democratic Party’s track record against our military. Imagine a paper that consistently ran stories highlighting every African-American shortcoming. Imagine a paper refusing to criticize the KKK, but instead referring to them as “activists” and reporting their views on race relations with the same moral equivalence with which our media reports the rantings of Zarqawi. Imagine a Party that consistently questioned the motivations of the supporters of civil rights, accusing them of lying about their reasons for seeking improved race relations. Imagine that Party opposing passage of civil rights laws, demanding extra-constitutional protection for white-supremacists, and screaming themselves hoarse insulting and defaming a President who staked his Presidency on supporting civil rights. And then imagine that Party simultaneously claiming “But we support minorities!” and wondering why African Americans don’t rally behind them.

Link to the above referenced story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051230/pl_nm/security_eavesdropping_dc;_ylt=Aoig9efqvx9m4UKpqFtn6kSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

The Dems can read polls as well as anyone, and can see it not only isn't gaining traction, it's backfiring.

Yes, but meanwhile our national security has been damaged.

But they don't care--anything is game if it might hurt the president.

The investigation into the NSA leak should be great news to all patriots.

It will force a review of the legality of the warrantless spying, because that will be the legal point supporting the WHISTLEBLOWER defense.

Bring it on, motherf***ers.

Bring down the worst presidency ever.

And remember, patriots, if it weren't for the warrantless spying, then odds are that bin Laden would still be free, and the US might still be facing an insurgency in Iraq, and the Taliban would still be a force in Afghanistan. So think of the gains!!!

And all it cost was for us to appease the terrorists who hate us for our freedoms!

Oh, those old freedoms? Is that what's making you mad? Well let's just get rid of those old freedoms right away! We were hardly using them!

Bring it on, motherf***ers.

This will be part of the next flame-thread announcement.

Shout it out, man!

Every election cycle this decade has been about the Dems not getting out their message. I didn't realize that the DNC's message wasn't that Iraq is huge mistake and America is being driven under. Get out those talking points!

Maybe you could get one of your friends in Hollywood to make a movie pointing at either message. Oh, I hear that the 2000 election is a killer topic too.

Howard Dean was right about Powell's UN presentation.

He was right about the insurgency.

The Dems should have backed him. Enough of these Bush lite candidates from the Dems.

Bring down the worst presidency ever.

We tried, but the pussies in the Senate wouldn't convict Clinton.

Remember those leftists claiming that the US wanted to install Chalabi -- who was on the US payroll -- in an Iraqi position?

And then remember how in the elections just held, Chalabi barely got his own family to vote for him?

And then remember how lauraw were crowing about democracy in Iraq?

Isn't it funny how quiet you all are about Chalabi being installed as head of the Iraqi Oil Ministry?

Looks like the left was right about Iraq, again. Surprise, surprise.

Ha!

Chalabi was installed as head of Iraqi oil! Game over, lauraw. That cogent point makes me realize that you never even read a book. You know, Dowd wrote one recently. But the truth is is that Chalabi means that the left was right about Iraq.

Er, wait. What was the left saying about Iraq? Well, that must have been it. huh? I thought it was something involving the words quagmire and minutemen, or was it something about huge mistake. Must be right then.

joeindc44 needs it boiled down:

installing someone like Chalabi, with no popular support, in the most powerful ministry, is not democratic. and it was predicted by the Michael Moores on the left.

Got it now?

From the desk of GWB
TOP SECRET

Begin on the lookout for the following ten tactics by Democrats. With these tactics, they could win elections.

10. Frequently use the phrase, fiscally responsible.
9. Eliminate ridicule of Jesus Land, which is chock full of voters.
8. Shut up about Healthcare, Education and Social Security. Nothing can be done about these in the short term. Any detailed proposals can be easily destroyed. Toss out a token complaint once a month, at the most.
7. Remove the phrase "tax cuts for the rich" from the playbook. It can't win another single vote.
6. Praise the Iraqi people and the troops, alot. Do not respond to criticism about your change in stance on the war.
5. Assert that Republicans are wrong, but do not demonize them. Not until you win control of one of the houses of congress.
4. Always link any reference to aid for the poor with accountability and responsibility.
3. On Labor portray yourself as the kindly grandfather helping his grandson learn to ride a bike,
(gender flop as needed). Drop the knight/dragon gig.
2.Talk about programs without mentioning dollar amounts. Talk about the details of the program. Do not mention cuts or increases. Acceptable phrases include "fully funded" and "new program".
1. Never ever ever ever utter "Weapons of Mass Destruction" again. Dead horse. Done. No votes there.

Deploy rove-bots against any Dems using the above. And squelch James Carville. He gets it.

Oh no, the Iraqis have discovered coalition building in government. Like giving the head of powerful but minority faction a ministry position. It's game over man.

Why couldn't they be more like the Canadian Liberal Party?

Somewhere out there is a union pipefitter. He would like to vote in his interest with the Democrats, but everytime he steps up to the mic his voice cannot be heard above the shouts of:

NO BLOOD FOR OIL!
BUSH IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE IN NEW ORLEANS!!
THE RIGHT TO AN ABORTION WILL BE CANCELLED TOMORROW!!!
YOU CANNOT CHECK OUT MAO'S RED BOOK WITHOUT BEING FOLLOWED HOME BY BLACK HELICOPTERS!!!!

I hope the scream therapy is making you feel good. Because we Rethugs just love it.

You are absolutely correct. I was wrong on Iraq, and I decided to point out that lauraw was wrong too because she doesn't read enough books. Does this Moore you speak of write any books?

Since Chalabi was installed as a minister, and that this is the most damaging act taken by America. An act that has turned all Iraqis against us, we should probably just give up and leave. And return Saddam to power.

It is indeed a powerful point. One that the DNC should use as their centerpiece of their 2006 election strategy.

Hey Gordon, you forgot quite a few, but who can keep up on all the shortcomings in this admin? Good try, those are all so last month, get with the times man, now its:

WATCH WHAT YOU WRITE IN YOUR EMAILS AND WHERE YOU SURF, THE NSA IS ALL OVER YOUR INTERNET USE.
CANT EVEN JOIN PETA WITHOUT GETTING SPYED ON.
THEY ARE TURNING THIS INTO NAZI GERMANY.
and my favorite: YOUR BEING BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY CRAP IN WALMART!

Just thought I'd get up on that soapbox of yours, it must be lonely with your head in the clouds....

How do Ace and compatriots here know domestic eavesdropping is directed only at "suspected terrorists"?
How do people here know American held detainees, are "terrorists"?

And no: "I trust Bush" is not an answer. Also: no opinions, just documented facts.

How do you know?

"it must be lonely with your head in the clouds...."

That could have been much worse. Thanks for being gracious.

I just can't keep up with issues that will bring down the Bush regime.

How do Ace and compatriots here know domestic eavesdropping is directed only at "suspected terrorists"?

How do you know there aren't martians being launched out of Howard Dean's ass?

Your asking to prove a negative. You are passing yourself off as the aggrieved party, its your job to supply the evidence. Show me a non-terrorist being held. Show me an abuse of the wire tapping.

Otherwise your just making shit up and whinning.

Yo, Jack.

Habeas Corpus requires the government to prove the case for detention, and judicial opversight is required for surveillance in order to protect citizens' constitutional rights. The Bush administration has swept away these legal protections so that no "aggrieved party" can "whine."

Ergo, Jack: we cannot know whose rights are "aggrieved."

You're ok with that, Jack?

Why?

If that Whistleblower defense would work - why isn't the whistleblow stepping forward? He's a patriot, right?

Wrong.

He's a traitor. And he'll be convicted and hopefully pounding stone in Leavenworth and he knows it. That's why he's skulking in the shadows of the NYT.

Comprimising national security for political purposes is subhuman behavior.

Habeas Corpus requires the government to prove the case for detention

Not if I say it doesn't.

Lord...yada yada. On this very site today we have seen various "outings" of top secret gov't programs. Thats top secret as in nobody is supposed to have a clue yet the entire world now knows all about them.

With such industrious reporters, the left wing blogosphere, the ACLU, Amensty International, etc., etc., etc., etc., are you trying to say that there is someone being held any its not known? Who?

I'm not in favor of many things hypothetical but I don't waste my life building what ifs not based on a scintilla of evidence.

Why do you?

Why do you ignore the fact that rendition was begun and practiced under the Clinton administration? Why do you not care that US citizens had their FBI files illegally read under the Clinton administration? Why do you not care that the IRS was used aggressively against conservative organizations during the Clinton administration? These were all crimes against US citizens. Real crimes with real victims that have come forward and have been identified. Why are you trying to make a make believe case? Or are you so convinced that the old way of practicing national security, the system which gave us Trade Center I, the USS Cole, the African Embassies, etc., was working?

I'm not.

And more to your point, a writ of habeas corpus is no such thing. Such writ is filled by a person who believes he has been wrongfully imprisoned. So as I said previously, if you have an example of someone wrongfully imprisoned, bring it forward and stop dealing in mythicals.

Jack, Jack, Jack. We don't have a "scintilla of evidence" because these detentions and surveillances deprive citizens recourse to the law to prove innocence.

You're ok w/ that, Jack?

Why?

I hate Clinton.

if you have an example of someone wrongfully imprisoned, bring it forward

Jesus, Jack. That's the whole point: Bush deprives detainees and surveilled citizens this right!

What's good for Bush, is good for us, eh Jack?

Lord Alexander's attempt at a point is becoming embarassing. The Jose Padilla case has been well-publicized despite the administration's position that he is an enemy combatant and therefore outside the criminal justice system (and therefore not entitled to habeas corpus writs).

If the absence of the ability to apply for a writ meant that no one would know you were being held without a writ, the whole point of requiring such writs would cease to exist. Lord Alexander's position has to be one of the dumbest things I've read in some time. The prisoners at Andersonville were not accorded the protections of criminal procedure, but that didn't mean nobody knew they were being held.

Based on every published opinion I've read, a President has a right under Article 2 to engage in wiretapping of suspected foreign enemies for national security reasons. This is pretty damn obvious if you think about it. I have a hard time understanding the motivations of those who think preventing terrorism is akin to prosecuting a bank robbery.

the administration's position that he is an enemy combatant and therefore outside the criminal justice system

Raven, so you believe the president's word is sufficient that Padilla is a "terrorist"? We don't need a rule of law requiring the govenment to prove its case against citizens?

I wouldn't say you're dumb, Raven. But, you argue for a government that has nothing whatsoever to do with "democracy."

Ergo, Jack: we cannot know whose rights are "aggrieved."

You're ok with that, Jack?

I don't know about Jack, but I can live with it.
But whiny, traitorous, little ass-hats like you will be the first to cry "why did Bush let this happen to us?"
when a nuke goes off in Mahattan.

You sicken me.

Shorter Log Cabin Republican:

"I love Big Brother."

Cut the boring sentiment, please. Little respect here, Log, little brother.

If u.s. was serious about nuke threat, it would move swiftly for global disarmament, not trashing the constitution.

btw, Log. how many convictions of terrorists?

Zero, Log. Zero.

And all those persons held incognito? They're all terrorists?

Big Brother told you, Log.

Let's hear it.

You';re quivering-lipped "you sicken me" is not an argument.l

Lord Asspounder von Hiccup

Lord Anus-xander von Fellatio

All I hear in here is this: We trust George Bush without reason.

Hayek is a hero of right libertarianism. Do you know who he is, Hop-Sing? You're good with the potty-mouth homophobic race-baiting. But do you know anything?

You would think that this is the first war America ever fought. The ideas of POWs and enemy combatants (pirates and terrorists) being virgin to our minds. Or that we never dealt with enemy sympathizers or sabateurs on our soil.

Tough shit. The president has these powers and has used them in the past. Whether its ordering the Navy to hang pirates upon capture or nuking a city. Its war, baby. POTUS has those powers and they have always fought to protect them. And its not as if POTUS has to listen to your phone calls to fuck you up, remember the white house having 200 FBI files or the IRS auditing certain folks.

As for some sort of cooperation between local law enforcement and the NSA, hows that gonna work? Are they going to call the Miami city police dept every time they get a phone call concerning cocaine or, God forbid, Extasy? Are they gonna enter these recorded phone conversations into evidence in a criminal trial?

Trust W? Sure why not? Its more rational than blind hatred and conspiracy theories.

I'm unaware of any historian who argues Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus was ever justified. All that, and Mrs. Lincoln's night at the theater was still ruined.

The internment of Japanese-Americans was justified? Does anybody here besides Michelle and Hop-Sing argue internment was justified?

How about the Tonkin vincident, also a matter of presidential prerogative? Justified?

Watergate break-in? Also justified?

And now spying on Americans?

C'mon, joe, go down the list. You're saying we turn our backs on America, on our Constitution, for these executive "prerogatives"?

You're good with the potty-mouth homophobic race-baiting.

Why thank you, kind sir. And you are very good at reciting the common buzz words in your alternative reality.

I'm unaware of any historian who argues Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus was ever justified

I think that for every dude the number of historians is massive, and it just takes that one historian to punch you in the face, and all of a sudden you're walking down the aisle, whether you like it or not

Dave

Go down the list.

Here's some more:

Roosevelt's lies about Yalta?

Clinton's lies about a certain cigar?

There are many more like this.

Justified?

C'mon.

Exactly, the list goes on.

Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus. We survived, and he is memorialized.

FDR hung German agents who landed in New Jersey before the Supreme Court finished with the case. And he interned the Japanese. And he's considered a good president too.

Clinton did some warrantless searches to catch spies in America.

I am unaware of how GOP staffers breaking into the DNC headquarters to find the names of the hookers the Democrats were going to use at their convention to be related to the president's war powers. But ok. He did not feel like he should be forced to give up his White House conversations.

Spying on America, fuck yeah. Do it. If someone is calling Afghanistan, I hope the NSA is sniffing that out.

So, I dunno where this justification thing ends or starts. I think listening in on phone calls with terrorists to be easier to justify than internment. But even internment was found constitutional.

As for Abe, the constitution reads "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." So, maybe the civil war counted?

Hey, man, I'm not here to hold hands and babysit. You've got to come to the table with something.

I don't placate.

Again, I don't see how Clinton perjuring himself, suborning perjury from his mistress, or attempting to coerce his mistress's coworker was part of his war powers. But, even he argued that the underlying sexual harassment law suit should be delayed so as to not impede his presidential duties.

Then he bombed the aspirin factory. Because Iraq and Al Qaeda were producing WMD there.

FDR and Yalta?

Dave

Go down the list.

Here's some more:

Roosevelt's lies about Yalta?

Clinton's lies about a certain cigar?

There are many more like this.

Justified?

C'mon.

Joe

I agree.

Bush no different either.

Dave,

Go down the list.

Are we still friends?

Do we still talk?

C'mon.

Bush probably will be up there with FDR and Lincoln when all is said and done. True dat.

Its like one submission for today's DNC:
'We opposed the Civil War too."

Lord Haw haw

If you’re not gonna give me the time of day and lay down for me, well, somebody else on this blog will because I’ve got this thing that’s working, you know? And I'm very gracious for that."

As for Bush spying on terrorists, Bush don't need food to impress, man. It's a flash of a smile and a nice conversation caught by NSA. And at the end of the day, Osama's cooking the food.

"We" survived. The relativism is touching, if you happen the be a male, and white, and American.

Especially since WWII, "we" have benifitted from the wholesale murder of millions of non white-skinned people. So many civilians have been murdered by presidential prerogative.

Good for "us."

I get the feeling that tubino and Kathy are the "glass is half empty" kind of people.

That, or they were beaten as children.

Especially since WWII, "we" have benifitted from the wholesale murder of millions of non white-skinned people. So many civilians have been murdered by presidential prerogative.>

I've been lucky enough that I don't need music for that.

So, now WWII was bad too? If it's a two-year spark-off, f--k it. Have a blast and fizzle out. It can be just as fun.

wholesale murder of millions of non white-skinned people

yeah. fucking amateurs.

The lies dragging u.s. into Vietnam killed millions.

That's a fact. One fact.

Because a President lied.

Still ok with you, Joe?

Yeah Lord Haw haw. You know, if whatever we were doing called for a cry, then hopefully I’d fell it organically. (inaudible) Although, to cry in front of a girl like you has never been one of my strong suits. I’ve always kind of kept that to the wimps and the other girls.

Uncle joe

Vile. Just vile.

Hey, growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, that's kind of what you do: You kill commies and you're good at it and you can have a girlfriend. Luckily, I killed commies and I was all right at it. So I did get a girlfriend

was me

Answer the question LAVH; was WWII a war the U.S. should have fought?

Texas Dave

That's the best you can do?

So, here's what I've learned here thus far: Obey policeman in your head. Bush is infallible because his interests are my interests, so all means justify "our" faith. Who cares who gets killed. Or why.

When a woman isn't feeling good about herself and you combine that with her period, eventually she'll ask you if you to save her ass from communist infiltrators. Is that a lie, you have to say no.

Brew

Yes. U.S. entry in WWII was moral. Murdering German civilians in late-war firebombing and the murder of Japanese civilians by same and nukes immoral.

More presidential "prerogatives."

Dave/Texas

That's just fucking vile, man. Other people here dig your bitch-slappin macho bullshit?

Really?

US don't placate. I bomb 'em straight up.

That feeling you are experiencing is the real world. Maybe in WWIII, we can have each soldier get a warrant before shooting a tango.

Murdering German civilians in late-war firebombing and the murder of Japanese civilians by same and nukes immoral.

Even though those actions arguably lessened the final body count, ours and theirs?

I try to treat all liberals with respect whether they are pretty or ugly.

Lord Alexander,

I am the nice one here, so I am going to give you a clue.

These guys are yanking your chain. They are trying to illustrate the ridiculous sterotypes about conservatives that people such as yourself have.

They are brutal, but funny.

Consider yourself warned.

Joe

Now this is all you have: Murder is cool.

That's your "position."

We've moved from O'Brien in 1984, to Kurtz in Heart of Darkness in a few comments.

You'll dig the permanent war on terror.

Lord Haw haw, I’ve never had much competition. I remember other twits competing over me, which was very exciting, to say the least. Any guy in here knows what I’m talking about. Maybe girls do too. I’ve never had this particular…and this is a very quirky idea, because at the end of the day, ace doesn’t care about her at all and doesn’t care if he loses her at all. He’s like, it is what it is. You’re not gonna give me the time of day and lay down for me, well, somebody else on this blog will because I’ve got this thing that’s working, you know?

Sorry guys, but it's like watching little boys pick wings off a fly.

It's not nice and I am girl.

That was me and I AM a girl.

Or..I am girl, hear me roar.

Whichever.

listen lord poopy head, dave was channelling Uncle Joe Stalin. He killed anywhere between 40 million or 0 (NYT's estimate hat tip to Duranty). They may even have been non-non-white.

Fuck you and your posturing. Bring up Dresden or Vietnam, but the president can still listen in to phone calls of Al Qaeda types. Mr.: "Look, at me, I object to any act taken by the US that was bad cause I think our coutry is based upon a suicide pact." Its cute, but stay on topic.

Sparkles, regarding common misconceptions: if they don't get it right away, they're gone.

Brew

Soldiers fight wars. The U.S. should have done what the Russians did when the Red Army liberated Europe: fight.

Instead we murdered civilians.

Lord Haw haw,

Hello.

The U.S. should have done what the Russians did when the Red Army liberated Europe: fight.

Alright, now we know what we're dealing with. You were pretty offended by the Uncle Joe reference, I bet.

I don't have many secrets. At the same time, I stay very closed off until a liberal deserves to know me completely.

Don't worry, Joe. Because of Bush's lies, your kids, my kids, will get to shoot brown people for the next 50 years.

Why are you so certain Bush's lies won't lead to murder of millions?

Before our very eyes, joe.

So the Russian advance into Europe was more humane than ours. Thats why every civilian and German soldier that could fled westward like crazy. So was the Red Army liberating Europe when they allied with Germany and attacked Poland together. When they rounded up Polish priests, doctors, middle class, officers, etc and shot them down en masse.

Brew, it's compelling, and rich.

The Russians liberated Europe.

liberated

I say you should get to know yourheros

Lord Haw haw,

Hello.

OMG, that made me LOL!

As the Russians rolled into Germany raping every cow and women in sight, they somehow managed not killing any civilians.

This is a special day when "The U.S. should have done what the Russians did when the Red Army liberated Europe: fight." is not the dumbest troll post of the day.

As for the permanent war on terror, I don't placate. We know that a common misperception among leftists is that capitalism has to create an everlasting war to distract its citizens from the sould deadening misery that only being able to afford a 30gig video Ipod brings. So, yeah, its all an illusion, but I only date 8-10's.

Lord Applebottom, you and I are definitely not dating. Role-playing is fun and all, but you're a dude and I'm an alpha heterosexual.

This was my favorite:

"One of the legacies of the Soviet occupation of Germany has been that, at least until very recently, East German women of the wartime generation referred to the Red Army war memorial in Berlin as "the Tomb of the Unknown Rapist.""

I don't excuse what Stalin did w/ the Red Army in Ukraine, balkans, etc. The consolidatioin of power by Stalin at war's end was catastrophic for eatern europe.

I'm pointing out the rectidude of the murder of civilians by the U.S. That was immoral.

Lord Haw haw got his front tooth back. He had a real positive experience, which he feels real gracious about, because as you grow up and meet new people, you find out that out a lot of times that’s not true. We'd go on the road together. But she dated a baseball player.

He had no chance.

"RECTITUDE"

Sorry, didn't preview.

Lord -

I'm with you about privacy concerns. Serious discussions about tradeoffs are needed. But when you start talking about Stalinist Russia as anything but an incredible tragedy in human history you lose me.

Tells me you are the kind that likes it rough, and thats not my style. I'll spank you a bit, maybe pull the hair during doggy-style, but thats my limit. You are too hardcore for me.

The Germans were how close to making the atom bomb? And what did you think they would do with it when they were done? And, finally, what were the Germans doing to the Joos in those camps?

Remember, it just takes that one German to punch you in the face, and all of a sudden you're walking down the aisle, whether you like it or not.

Dave in texas

The nonsequitor misogyny isn't clever Dave. Woman as object of submission. Inside joke insinuates male domination.

And so on.

haw haw.

Tell me something I don't know.

consolidatioin of power by Stalin at war's end was catastrophic for eatern europe

but you were all over consolidatioin and eatern

was it a cheap shot?

yeah.

that's placating Lord Haw haw.

I don't placate.

Lord Aperature von Colon, Who's “the one that got away”?

Hmmm.... I've never seen a wingless fly come back and beg for more.

Aren't yall lucky little boys!?

It's been fun. I'm not really a troll. I'm one of you hillbillies.

I'll be back to kick your ass now and then. Disabuse y'all.

God bless America. I'm an atheist. But I mean it.

Bush is a disaster. But so is our political class.

Elites hate you. They hate America. Hate freedom. One day we'll agree who is our common enemy.

Excuse me? I am an elite and I LOVE everyone here!!! And I am INSANE about freedom. And don't even get me started on America. I could just eat it with a spoon!!!

Now go away, you elite bigot!

I'm not really a troll

And I'm not really boinking Mrs. Michael like a wild monkey.

Lord Haw haw, I mean, thanks for the attention and all, but get out of my face.

Damn, he should have tried to lure us in with quotes from Ayn Rand; that may have worked.

But I've got this policy that you don't sleep with them; it complicates stuff. So it's the Lord Alex van Pelts, the Blinded, and the Genes of the world. They all got away.

RWS, you're not an elite.

You're from Texas.

Texans are far, far above the mere 'elite.'

I was trying to be modest.

The road is cleared, we are going back to the world."

He raised his hand
and over the desolate earth
he traced in space
the sign of the dollar

No such thing as a modest Texan.

Ok, hillbilly, it all comes back to Bush hatred, don't it.

Absolutely. You start making eyes across the room. Right then it's not a hate Bush situation. It's a predator-prey situation.

hee hee

Seriously RWS -

I'm from NY and live in California. I have a degree from NYU. Don't you know that means I am automatically smarter and know more that all you hee-haws from the South and Midwest.

Forgot to add, because that's the way God intended it.

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say,
A measure of wheat for a penny,
and three measures of barley for a penny;
and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

We ended on good terms

steve,

Kinda like parents who let their kids believe in Santa, we Texans let you guys believe that.

;-)

Every troll I've ever wacked. I've got this policy that you don't sleep with them; it complicates stuff. So it's the Chamberlains, the trollbinos, the Mena Suvaris, and the Leelee Sobieskis of the world. They all go away.

Lord Haw haw. Are we friends? Absolutely. Do we talk? No.

One day, we'll find our common enemy, and we'll find that its Tom Cruise.

I'm just saying

that Bush is a fascist

and a liar

I have no logic

to my arguments

and my penis is very

very small

I thought maybe could remain here as someone contributing to discussion about important issues. Instead, I was ridiculed w/ puerile, clever humor attacking my masculinity, etc.

This is fucked up. I think some here know the problem is not liberals v. conservatives, but a kind of pathological sequestering of views turned into the ghetto of the mind by blogs like this.

And atrios.

You can pull out all the little dick jokes and euphemisms about "liberals" all you want, but this factional, segmented hatred is fucking our country up.

I know. You'll have some tears for Algernon jokes ready for riposte.

But it's fucked up.

hey Lord Haw haw, I never once mentioned your genitals. That's all between you and your balls.

I just won't placate you. Sorry. I just won't.

But it's fucked up.

Welcome to AoSHQ.

You think this is bad, you should see a flamewar sometime. We say the meanest things imaginable to one another - and that's the regular posters, the people who like each other.

It's a beautiful thing.

Oh my Lord. I know a teenager when I read one. I have three.

Lord Alexander is about 17 I'm betting.

Dang, I can't leave the house without someone coming in as Lord Somebody and ruining my honorific? Lord Alexander von Hayek I declare you a usurper! So there!

Why I decided to get a life today I have no idea.

placate?

There's a difference between indulging someone's ideas and responding with reason.

I didn't come here to be mollified. Or ridiculed. Anybody can do the latter. Just ask Hop-Sing.

The left-right animus is ideological. Condescending "placation" to who you believe is an enemy assures defeat of consensus.

Totally fucked up.

In meatspace I have a feeling you'd be more congenial. Maybe not.

If all there is, is reason and guns. I have no doubt who will win.

I didn't come here to be mollified. Or ridiculed

And yet it happened.

In meatspace I have a feeling you'd be more congenial. Maybe not.

True. In person, you start making eyes across the room. Right then it's not a internet debate situation. It's a predator-prey situation.

I came here just to say

really obnoxious things designed

to piss you all off

and when you respond

well, hell...

It's just not fair

I was just looking to exchange ideas

you meanies

Alright! Bedtime young man!

who? me??

Hayek is a hero of right libertarianism. Do you know who he is, Hop-Sing? You're good with the potty-mouth homophobic race-baiting. But do you know anything?

You obviously don't. The hero of libertarianism that you refer to was Friedrich August von Hayek, the Austrian-born economist.

Sorry, last post was me.

I told you he was a usurper!

Exchanging ideas like "The U.S. should have done what the Russians did when the Red Army liberated Europe: fight."
or
Especially since WWII, "we" have benifitted from the wholesale murder of millions of non white-skinned people. So many civilians have been murdered by presidential prerogative.

I've been lucky enough that I don't need music for that.

So, now WWII was bad too? If it's a two-year spark-off, f--k it. Have a blast and fizzle out. It can be just as fun.

In other words, our guest troll has been using "Alexander von Hayek" all night, thinking he was referring to Friedrich August.

But, I'm not one to pick nits.

he had a cute little moustache

Dave, I sure don't want to sound like I'm placating, but I'm guessing Alexander has a cute little mustache too.

I call it the Austrian tickler.

Lord Wah wah:

I think some here know the problem is not liberals v. conservatives

You're right, it's liberals and conservatives versus the functionally illiterate and hysterical (and the Democrats).

Seriously, jackass, you came on to the thread with this:

How do Ace and compatriots here know domestic eavesdropping is directed only at "suspected terrorists"?

Which lets me know that you have done no reading on this subject, let alone rational thinking, else you would know that there was oversight into this matter that eliminates "Bush secretly spying on whoever he likes" as a viable option.

The whiny side of this issue wants a judge to sign warrants on stuff that is currently being reviewed on a regular basis by the DoJ, among others, and Bush's political opponents are being briefed on it.

If it were the case (and I really doubt it) that the law required a warrant for what was being done, it wouldn't matter how much outside legal review Bush has had done on the program BUT that's probably not the case and all the legal review really drains your insipid bad-faith argument. You stupid fucking tool.

Then you followed up with:

How do people here know American held detainees, are "terrorists"?

Which only further demonstrates that you're a paranoid fucking moron. Blah blah blah Jose Padilla blah. Come back when you have an example who DIDN'T trot off to terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, pole-choker.

Stop crying that no one takes you seriously, you're being treated as you deserve.

I thought maybe could remain here as someone contributing to discussion about important issues.

I think maybe should learning how to speak English. Or at least type better.

"The U.S. should have done what the Russians did when the Red Army liberated Europe: fight."
This is the most astonishing, morally bankrupt, statement I've encountered in two years of lurking here, and shows a complete and utter ignorance of history. Perhaps in Iraq and Afghanistan we should now emulate the WWII Red Army - you okay with that, moron?

As I said, its a weird day when that statement is not the stupidest troll comment of the day.

That's okay. He's not liberal or conservative.

He's just really, really, really stupid. Or evil. But I always assume ignorance before malice.

Of course ignoring the fact that the Red Army participated in the invasion and dismemberment of Poland with the Nazis. Oh yeah, and then started massacring people who had a greater than elementary school education.

Look up The Katyn Massacre.

Katyn Massacre is the first thing that came to mind. But, hey, we've done the same in Iraq with...um..
Ask any of your neighbors with roots in Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep/Slovakia. Ending up at the mercy of the Western allies was a dream come true.
Sorry, we don't do "Imperialism and Conquest" in the classic sense.

Oh yeah, and then started massacring people who had a greater than elementary school education.

Hey, I think you've stumbled on why these clowns don't sweat the Red Army.

Did the US do brutal things in WWII ? Yes. Of course, it was a fight to the death. I have no sympathy for Germany for what the Russians did to them, or for our air bombardment. You start a genocidal war, you got to expect to get your hair mussed when you lose.

Just ask Hop-Sing.

You rang, Lord Needle Dick?

Listen, seriously, I think you do offer a fresh perspective. You definitely lean Left more than Libertarian. Plus that whole Dresden shit is something only college professors and their mush-brained students believe. When people grow up, they tend to see things in a more realistic light.

Your main problem is your sense of humor -- you don't have one. If you were a regular hillbilly like the rest of us, you would have recognized the spanking we put upon you and played along.

Lastly, there's no hatred here. We're ballbusters, not hate-mongers.

When I was an exchange student in Germany, I found out that a good friend of my host family had been an American POW. This made me a little nervous, until he told me how grateful he was to have been captured by the Americans rather than the Russians.

According to him, after the war you could walk down German streets and identify on sight the men who had been American POWs and Russian POWs. The latter were emaciated, crippled, sick, lacking teeth, and so forth.

The Last 100 Days by Toland

Has lots of interesting stories about the flood of German civilians and military fleeing west to surrender to Anglo-American forces. Some cases where POWs who had been put to work on farms helping their "host" families (women and children) escape west.

Cases where POWs put American clothes and dog tags on German guards (ones who had been decent) and marched them to American lines in order to save them.

We're not hatemongers, we're hate stylists.

According to him, after the war you could walk down German streets and identify on sight the men who had been American POWs and Russian POWs.

I still remember the guy's name: Heine Gutschow, and the late-night conversation I had with this former WWII German soldier. The conversation was hampered by my tentative German and a lot of gin mixed with orange soda, but we managed to communicate.

My host family was actually on vacation in Norway at the time with Heine's family. Heine loved America.

The other cool thing about Heine is that he would jump into this frickin' ice-cold Norwegian lake every morning. Claimed it made him feel great. Eventually, I tried it. He was right. After the initial 20 seconds of agony, when the numbness set in, it did feel pretty good.

This lake is also where I caught three trout on one cast, but that's another story.

The father of my host family, Gerhardt, had been a Russian POW. He refused to discuss it. His own son had never been able to get him to talk about what happened.

Why are liberals so race-obsessed? I'm serious. I notice this constantly. People such as Lord Alexander ALWAYS start talking about the white-nonwhite divide every chance they get. Their self-loathing is odd.

When a white regime was running South Africa, the Left was up in arms, boycotting, etc. But when the Bathists operated a far more despotic regime in Iraq, the Left saw it as a family affair about which we shouldn't get involved.

The Left can't condemn Israel's occupation of the West Bank loudly enough, but few knew or cared about Syria's occupation of Lebanon. Lebanon was never referred to as "occupied territory".

I have no problem condemning human rights abuses by the West, but some day hopefully the Left will recognize the irrational self-flagellation behind their politics. No serious observer of liberal politics the last 50 years or so could conclude that they are motivated by genuine concern for the rights of non-whites. Africans have suffered far more at the hands of other Africans, and the Left lifts not a finger. Arab leaders throughout the Middle East have killed and oppressed far more Arabs than the white race ever has, and the Left lifted not a finger.

There is no principle behind the modern Left, and we shouldn't let them try to occupy a moral high ground they never had. Bush has given 50 million Arabs a chance at freedom. Clinton and the American Air Force prevented the slaughter of Muslims in Bosnia.

Prior to Bush, Israel was the only country in the Middle East in which Arabs could vote. The West has nothing to apologize for, no matter how many times people like Lord Alexander whip themselves in the back about the evils of the white race.

The hero of libertarianism that you refer to was Friedrich August von Hayek

finally, you got it. thought of: gerry von mises. too arcane.

raven. the titular "we" used here refers to american indigenes slaughtered by white europeans?

didn't think so.

3 million dead in se asia? white?

does "we" refer to women?

strange reification you have: "we"