I was amazed at that interview. BIG BALLS that woman has. Feminism (over here and in Europe) is all blather compared to what this woman is fighting against. And, crickets from them (because it doesn't fit into their anti-war, anti-interventionist attitude. )

I'm all hot and bothered by this - because American Feminist NEVER EVER EVER had to face this type of crap. The right to vote or work is nothing compared to their life. Compared to the feminists at Planned parenthood ( crying over the slippery slope of late-term abortion leading to back alley abortions) - well, it's just silly.

Why don't more feminists support women like this, and women generally in the Islamic world? I know Jay Leno's wife, a liberal feminist, was a pretty big advocate for women in Afghanistan; I just wish there were more like her.

I got into it with Hubris about this on Goldstein's blog a few weeks ago. The exchange picks up here. His point was that just because feminist bloggers don't write a particular incident of misogyny in the Third World doesn't mean they don't care about it. My point was that it's not just a single incident here and there; it's a pattern of omission, and patterns are significant. We also disagreed about the extent to which American feminists could influence conditions for Muslim women simply by writing it about here.

For me, it's the ridiculousness of the situation. Here, women are fighting for ... what? The morning-after pill? And, in Bahrain they want to go though life with their clitori intact. To not be forced into marriage at the age of 11 to some old goat.

Feminist don't want to talk about it, here, because it doesn't fit in with the leftist agenda they've signed up for.

Damn, remind me to make sure Carin is on my side in an argument/knife fight.....

Righteous anger rocks!

Feminist don't want to talk about it, here, because it doesn't fit in with the leftist agenda they've signed up for.

Yes, there's much truth to that. I had a big blow-up with one of the Feministas over a post she wrote asking whether the hijab might be a source of empowerment. Dress up misogyny in brown skin and poverty and America's women warriors suddenly turn gun-shy. Highly illuminating.

So that's one reason they duck Third-World women-hatred: as white girls, they've been taught they have no right to judge. The other reason? It simply doesn't affect them. Sure, little girls by the thousands get their clits burned off; but it's not like America can do anything about that, right? Besides, there's some dude in South Dakota who's mouthing off about abortion. We'd better take care of him before we start worrying about burqas.

Like I said to Hubris, it seems that sisterhood ends at the water's edge.

Let's see what's on the home page of the National Organization for Women:

Enraged & Engaged: Women's Campaign to Defeat Alito

Take Action to Defeat Alito

Cheney's Vote Ensures Passage of Senate Bill to Cut Services

Senate Democrats Block Reauthorization; House Briefly Extends Current Act

Women and Abortions: The Reasoning Behind the Decision

Conservatives Oppose New Cervical Cancer Vaccine

Effort to Reinstate Data Collection on Women Workers Stalled

VAWA Passes in Congress, Ready for President's Signature

News on Mentor Corp. Reveals Disdain for Women's Health

NOW Joins Protest of FEMA Response to Hurricane Katrina (editorial note: you have got to be f'in kidding me)

NOW Fights Clinic Violence in Cases Before Supreme Court

Hundreds March from El Paso to Mexico in Protest of Femicide

NOW Backs Plaintiffs in New Hampshire Abortion Notice Case

Year-End Tax Deduction

It's the liberation of women that hardline psychosexual-dysfunctional Islamist men fear the most.

Yup, that's it.

Remember that bandwagon about Afghanistan's women, with Laura Bush at the lead? How long did THAT concern last, and the Taliban is surging back now...

OT, but remember that thread about how great the Kurds were doing, and why doesn't the press cover it more?

Ooops.

KIRKUK, Iraq - Kurdish leaders have inserted more than 10,000 of their militia members into Iraqi army divisions in northern Iraq to lay the groundwork to swarm south, seize the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and possibly half of Mosul, Iraq's third-largest city, and secure the borders of an independent Kurdistan.

Five days of interviews with Kurdish leaders and troops in the region suggest that U.S. plans to bring unity to Iraq before withdrawing American troops by training and equipping a national army aren't gaining traction. Instead, some troops that are formally under U.S. and Iraqi national command are preparing to protect territory and ethnic and religious interests in the event of Iraq's fragmentation, which many of them think is inevitable.

The soldiers said that while they wore Iraqi army uniforms they still considered themselves members of the Peshmerga - the Kurdish militia - and were awaiting orders from Kurdish leaders to break ranks. Many said they wouldn't hesitate to kill their Iraqi army comrades, especially Arabs, if a fight for an independent Kurdistan erupted.

"It doesn't matter if we have to fight the Arabs in our own battalion," said Gabriel Mohammed, a Kurdish soldier in the Iraqi army who was escorting a Knight Ridder reporter through Kirkuk. "Kirkuk will be ours."

Read the whole thing, linked on the OOPS. I pointed this out a few days ago, which put lots of folks here in a tizzy (= lots ofperonal insults, virtually no one addressing the issue). Funny how that works.

Way to avoid the issue though.

Good job!

The Muslim woman in France wrote that book a couple of years ago, she has since died of stomach cancer. Just a really sad life. You should see pictures of her though. Very pretty. Bellil is her last name.

"Dress up misogyny in brown skin and poverty and America's women warriors suddenly turn gun-shy."
-posted by Allah

You have no idea how true this is. It reminds me of a conversation I had with a feminist prof that was teaching a course on Women and Religion. She admitted to me that women were treated badly by Islam but she didn't want to bring too much attention to it (or atleast tried to balance it out by talking about the misogynistic things about Early Christianity and Orthodox Judaism) mainly because she didn't want to play into the "racists" and she didn't want to offend her female students that came from that part of the world. This feminist went as far as to give the "context" for FGM lest we jumped to racist/patriarchal/imperialistic/triumphalist conclusions. It's kind of ironic though. These type of feminists think that this sort of treatment is good enough for brown women and that we should not judge but once it starts to effect their sisters and their daughters, they get all uppity and shit. Imagine that.

How long did THAT concern last, and the Taliban is surging back now...

Any minute now. The last four years? Just a fake-out to lull us to sleep. Someday soon we'll all wake up to news of the mighty Talib war machine rolling down main street in Kabul. The trap is sprung.

Re: the Kurds, that'll be a neat trick having to fight the Iraqi and Turkish militaries at the same time. But we'll see. If only Saddam were there to lay down the law.

I'm just grateful we have honorable critics like you, tubby, who want so desperately for us to win that you'd risk the mockery of the Ace of Spades commenter contingent to bring us the day's bad news. Day after day. As they say, eternal vigilance is the price of defeatism.

I think Allah pretty much nailed it. Several of my female friends regard themselves as serious feminists and gay-rights advocates--and, of course, foes of the evil W. When I ask how they can be so apathetic about a culture that's so virulently homophobic and misogynistic, they basically get embarrassed and sort of look down and scuff their feet.

The reason, of course, is that multi-culti PC forbids one to have an opinion about what non-Westerners do. This leads to a sort of benign but thoroughgoing racism, where it's assumed that non-white, non-Christian people don't have the same feelings as People Like Us. You see the same thing in the anti-globalization movement, which would love to see people in Thailand living in villages of bamboo huts that the protestors would never consider living in.

Strange. In the "progressive" worldview, it's barbaric to catch a trout because they feel pain just like we do. But little Muslim girls getting their genitals mutilated don't get much attention, because their feelings are completely different. The progressive mindset gets a little uglier every time you look at it.

Oh Moon God--

As a wise man noted: it's not who they are underneath, it's what they do that defines them.

Yeah, funny how the only patriarchal oppressors are white guys in suits who tell dirty jokes and belong to all male card clubs, as far as some are concerned. State run "virtue" police who beat the shit out of women for showing ankle skin and swarthy gentlemen who murder their daughters for dating get a pass. Oh, yeah, and so do octopus former presidents, provided they spout the right watery platitudes.

and the Taliban is surging back now...

Don't let that little gem slip past you. The implication there is the US fucking military is l.o.s.i.n.g. in Afghanistan.

It's a total failure, my good people. You're being led by bad people. Get out while you can. Save your country from defeat.

Ha ha, very funny. Looks like we have an imposter in our presence.

I'm sure troll will be the first to weep when the "surging" taleban retakes Afghanistan. So, how does this l.o.s.i.n.g. occur? Will the taliban storm the cities, take over the roads? Will our bombs and bullets suddently go silent, unable to shoot? This troll is consistently unable to offer any thoughts that contribute anything other than chicken little, we are all gonna die because of W bullshit.

If there has been an accurate prediction made by guys like this, I'd like to know.

How'd ya make out this Fitzmas, anyway? You know, I think that if you keep this up, you might just get W out of office, around Jan 2008, but still, its the thought that counts.

Jesus tapdancing Christ, isn't one tubino more than enough already?

This is like a bad 80's TV show where the villian is cornered in the hall of mirrors. I can't tell who is who! To tell the truth, phony tubino probably just cut and pasted an earlier tubino post.

It's easy to tell that I am the original tubino. Who else uses "oops" to label links?

Who else would enter a thread about a subject -- countering the abuse of women -- we ALL could agree on but use it to rant against Bush and the war effort?

*I'm* Tubino!

C'mon, only the real tubino would say UR-tubino.

I don't know about getting a pass on misogynism. I move around in lib circles (imagine that!), and ALL are QUICK to point out the absolute unlivability for women in an Islamic fundamentalist society. Of course the same is said about a CHRISTIAN fundamentalist society, but no one imagines one is as bad as the other. I think you are attacking your own straw man.

If you think that a resurgence of the Taliban = US losing militarily, you are wrong. (Why are some able to only think of binary oppositions???)

Check out Juan Cole's top 10 myths about Iraq to see another way.

Myth #3 is 3. The guerrillas are winning the war against US forces.

He tosses that out thusly:
The guerrillas are really no more than mosquitos to US forces. The casualties they have inflicted on the US military, of over 2000 dead and some 15,000 wounded, are deeply regrettable and no one should make light of them. But this level of insurgency could never defeat the US military in the field.

But the Taliban in Afghanistan does not have to defeat the US militarily. It just has to outlast them.

Read the rest of Cole's piece. Great stuff.

No! *I'm* Tubino!

I am tubino!

*I'm* Tubino, and so is my wife!

The real tubino

Redundant. Ridiculous. Remonstrative.

accept no substitute

I am Spartacus!

Okay, I'm getting really confused. Spartacus is Tubino, and Dave in Texas is Don King?

Nice try, fake tubino.
I told you all before that I don't link to the "loony" left sites. You all think I do, but I don't.

You like me! You really like me!

Only trust the LONG posts to be by the real tubino.

I wish I could be tubino. When is he going to get a blog?

and she didn't want to offend her female students that came from that part of the world.
Arch

It's not just offending those that come from "that part of the world". They ( meaning the left leaning anti-war feminist educators/bloggers/writers) know in no uncertain terms that should they cross the "agenda line" they run the risk of losing audience because they no longer focus on issues that directly impact ( insert name) personal gripes or desires. And would therefore become noise because the flavor of ice cream wasn't to the liking of the group du jour. Not exactly enlightened or progressive but then again how much of that niche really wants equality for all women v.s. the ones that just focus in on why they can't have what they want when they want it, and who they get to nail to the cross because of it .

Its outrageous but typically arrogant for Americans to assume that their society is qualitatively better than that of Middle Eastern countries.

Some of these countries have excellent socialized medicine, and clitorectimies are provided to children FREE OF CHARGE.

Can we say the same in Chimpy's Merka?

Didn't think so.

He only links to websites that argue that the NYT's is carrying W's water. Or that 4 roadside bombs a day will drive the US from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Real middle of the road website.

My name is Tubino, Lib of Libs
Look on my links ye Rethuglicans and despair.

Come on, guys. I thought you were above this sort of nonsense. I don't link to Jaun Cole. Tom Friedman, maybe, but not Cole.

Damn the f**cking military, full screed ahead!

Read the rest of Cole's piece. Great stuff.

Left-wingers come in here all the time and whine that Ace and his readers see the war through rose-colored glasses. Fair enough; it's no secret that most of us desperately want the news to be good, and are willing to emphasize the positive in a story when the news is mixed.

But Juan Cole does precisely the same thing, only from the other end. In fact, he's far more willing to spin the news negatively than we are to spin it positively, since his academic reputation is to some degree on the line here. So why should anyone treat him as some sort of objective analyst? He's the doomsayer di tutti doomsayers.

Believe me, I understand not trusting a guy who sees only good no matter how bad things get. That's one of my big problems with Hewitt. Why would I give Juan Cole the benefit of the doubt when he's Hewitt's mirror image?

Yes, Juan, another umbrella drink coming up!!!

I said "great stuff." That means bad for America. It doesn't necessarily mean it is worthwhile reading or particular good insight.

Geez, you'd think you guys would know me by now.

The organization those poor girls need is not NOW, it's NRA.

You guys are missing the point. It's NOW -- the National Organization of Women. As in, who gives a crap about all those women in other countries, I WANT MY DAMNED ABORTIONS AND I WANT REDNECK JESUS-FREAKS FROM MISSISSIPPI TO PAY FOR THEM!!!

Freakin' fetuses. Always making me buy large tubs of mayonaise...

I call upon G-d to strike American feminists with dumb tongues and dumb minds until they are willing to use their steel-tipped boots to knock down the doors of the abuse of women and children in backwards parts of the world. It is utter hypocrisy and worthy of all peoples' complete disdain and unfettered condemnation that these proponents of women, and their equality in all areas, will be so cowardly as to run away from such issues that matter. While campaigning with words filled with vitriol, hatred, and fear-mongering, they strike those who do not oppress while they remain silent and mute when it comes to the tears, sighs, cries, and shrieks of misery from the women of other areas of the world. How can we consider ourselves one humanity when we do not care about others?

I have read conservatives condemn these...inhuman spawn of Hell--these oppressors and abusers--with more regularity and vehemence than anyone on the Left, who seem to be more interested in relativism and coddling the primitive, misogynist, and violence-prone practices of others. I spit in their general direction. I flick my chin at them. I bite my thumb at them. To them I show mano cornuta. I display my open palm in their faces.

The blood of these abused women, it is on their heads.
The blood of their mutilations, it is on their heads.
Their deaths by abusive spouses, they are on their heads.
Their deaths by their own hands, to escape their utterly miserable existence with no say or rights, they are on their heads.
The tears and cries of the abused and oppressed, they are on their heads.

They who refuse to speak out against these atrocities are complicit in it. May G-d avenge the innocents who have been oppressed and abused. All the peoples of the world: may their eyes become opened to these unacceptable abominations, may their mouths open in unreserved condemnation, and may their feet and hands move as one to bring down these regimes of abuse and inequality.

It is unacceptable for anyone to hide behind culture, tradition, or religion to preserve their abominable practices. The practices are an abomination, period. May the abominations be wiped out.

(Can you tell this boils my blood?)

Well, you've seen it, and we have not.

The greatest power of the Muslim man against his women is the ability to cloister and isolate them.

Wait, Juan Cole opposed Harriet Miers?

I'm going to have to give him another chance.

Qualification: in the comments posted above, posted at "10:00 PM," the condemnation and other negative sentiments expressed are directed solely to those feminists who do not speak up against the abominable atrocities mentioned in the same set of comments.

Regarding those who speak up, we impore G-d to bless them abundantly, and hope that their efforts shall bear plentiful fruit.

lauraw: Very correct. A woman who would disobey her husband in this regard would be considered a wanton (as opposed to wonton) woman, deserving whatever might happen to her. Women are not supposed to speak up.

What the hadith (sayings of Muhammad) and even the Qur'an say about women is simply reprehensible. Perhaps they have been better than general sentiments at that time, but the world has moved far beyond both the level of non-Muslims and the level of Islam's official pronouncements.

Islamists say that Islam put an end to female infanticide. Seems like this was only to repress them while they're alive.

I never thought I would ever say this publicly, but Islam is primitive (relatively), misogynist, and violent in essence.

100,000 battered women in America, and all this time I've been eating mine plain.

Good point, IJ. But battering women is not culturally or socially accepted in America. Society looks down on men who batter their significant others.

Islam not only permits it, it recommends it. Verse 34, chapter 4 (surat-an-nisaa').

I don't want to come across as an irrational Islamophobe. I just believe there are significant issues Islam needs to sort out, and others need to be aware of this. Christianity and Judaism are criticized enough; now it's Islam's turn.

Muslihoon, did you issue a "fatwa" in your earlier post at 10:00?

By the way, Mus, I agree the abuse of women is a serious problem. Growing up an to this day, I have no tolerance for bullies -- people who take advantage of the defenseless.

Good question, Bart. As the Self-Proclaimed Grand Mufti and Grand Ayatollah of Muslim Apostates, I issue it as a fatwaa. "wallaahu aa'lam."

:-)

All Things Beautiful TrackBack 'Fatwas Authorizing Sexual Abuse Of Infants':

A piece of advice: take your blood pressure medication first, click on play below second. Thank you to Sigmund Carl & Alfred for the email, alerting me to this gem from the Muslim 'religion of peace'.....Ace Of Spades tells it like it is"

100,000 battered women in America, and all this time I've been eating mine plain.

I feel my earlier comment didn't get the traction it so deserved.

Why would you expect to get traction? I'm not going to placate ya--batter makes 'em go down smooth.