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December 13, 2005

Separation of Sex and State

It's a point so obvious even I've made it ad nauseum. Still, it's a good point, and it's good to keep asking the question until we finally get an answer that's a bit more logically rigorous than "just because."

After comparing the elites' l"libertarian consensus" that just about anything of a sexual nature is permitted in the public square, whereas even mentioning Christmas is considered uncooth bordering on offensive, Carol Platt Liebau wonders:

All these measures spring from a laudable aversion to giving offense, and the impulse that prompts them is a tribute to the nation's history of religious tolerance. But nonbelievers or non-Christians are not being forced to celebrate Christmas (much less profess belief in Jesus' divinity).

So it's worth wondering: In a nation founded on religious principles, why should spiritual messages be tailored to the sensitivities of nonbelievers, while sexual messages are not similarly constrained for the sensibilities of traditionalists?

If there's a standard for deciding what content is appropriate for the public square, surely it should be uniformly applied. At the very least, we should rethink a status quo that presumes religious messages will elicit the kind of indignation once reserved for the crude sexual messages that pass without comment (or censure) today.


posted by Ace at 01:51 PM
Comments



"...yellow skinned, slant-eyed people..."

Buddhaheads. They are called Buddhaheads.

Posted by: rcl on December 13, 2005 02:01 PM

Poor Carol Platt Liebau doesn't understand how the world works. Let me explain, that is what we call a double standard and it's your job to accept it unquestioningly because our moral superiors on the left and in the media (one and the same?) say so. If you are some kind of prude or something avert your gaze from the two guys humping in the park across the street from your house. Not your business. Oh and keep your Merry Christmas to yourself, I'm just trying to pass out these handbills to the circle jerk I'm organizing downtown next week in peace. Feel free to come by next week though, if you show up we can go bukkake with it.

Posted by: Big E on December 13, 2005 02:11 PM

"In a nation founded on religious principles, why should spiritual messages be tailored to the sensitivities of nonbelievers, while sexual messages are not similarly constrained for the sensibilities of traditionalists?"

Because the ACLU knows that people will fight a lot harder to keep their porn than they will for their religion - Christian traditions and biblical references are a large, slow, bleeding target for PC'ers whereas sexuality is lively beast with sharp claws and fangs.

But give them time - the burqa is becoming the new tres chic look over yonder (and wearing a yarmulka is a death wish) thanks to a combination of dominant muslims and submissive europeans, and there's no reason that can't eventually happen over here too if current trends are allowed to continue unchallenged.

Posted by: Scott on December 13, 2005 02:13 PM
In a nation founded on religious principles, why should spiritual messages be tailored to the sensitivities of nonbelievers, while sexual messages are not similarly constrained for the sensibilities of traditionalists?

Because the Establishment Clause doesn't encompass sexuality?

Posted by: Allah on December 13, 2005 02:14 PM

It doesn't encompass "public display" either.

Posted by: someone on December 13, 2005 02:15 PM

It doesn't encompass my right to anal with sexy coeds, either.

Damn those shortsighted Framers-- damn them!

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge on December 13, 2005 02:19 PM

It's simple, really. Leftists don't actually want separation of Church and State. Why? Because contrary to their explicit message, they DO have a church. The Church of Secularism. This is NOT the same as atheism! It has its gods, its faith, its eucharist, its priests. And they want it to be the official state religion.

They want separation of other THREATENING churches and state. To wit, Christianity (all branches) and to a smaller extend Judaism. They're OK with Islam becuase it's not a major competing religion locally.

Their faith? Based not in the Bible, but in the American Constitution. Not that either is a bad book; but it's all in the interpretation, the "penumbras" shall we say.

Their priests? University professors, Journalists, Feminists.

Their sacred rituals? Public sexual exhibition. Protest rallies. Participation in either or both of these is a badge of honor/rite of passage for Leftists. Double honor for both simultaneously...getting naked at a protest rally is like their Bar Mitzvah.

Their eucharist. That's simple: abortion. Think about it.

I don't mean the above as an analogy. I mean it literally. These people behave as if their leftism was a RELIGION which is absolute, based in faith, cannot be questioned, and which all right-thinking people MUST follow or else be deemed heathen unbelievers, and fair game for attacks of any kind.

And one thing their religion demands is unfettered sexual expression all the time, any time, at any age. Interfering with that is interfering with their free practice of religion.

Posted by: Mark on December 13, 2005 02:26 PM

Maybe sex can be found under that penumbra thingy.

Posted by: on December 13, 2005 02:38 PM

Hey, where's the votemongering? It's Old Dave and RWS are in pretty tight races.

Posted by: someone on December 13, 2005 02:52 PM

Yeah, as we get closer to the end days, folks like me and RWS really need the turnout to push us "Over The Top" in the Weblog Awards.

You know, like Stallone.

Much obliged for support from all my compadres here at Ace of Spades HQ!

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge on December 13, 2005 02:57 PM

Mark, not a bad screed for an atheist. Each abortion is like a human sacrifice to their cause. Like Christ, or the fatted calf. Brrr.

Posted by: monica on December 13, 2005 03:34 PM

You're close Mark. It's more akin to the dominance of the Catholic Church during the Dark Ages, when the believers were illiterate and had to rely on the priests to tell them what was holy doctrine and what wasn't.

The "priests" have their "scriptures," but the worshippers are for the most part clueless about it because all they know is the dogma they hear in their "church," that being the halls of academia.

I must disagree about their stance towards Islam, though. They embrace it because they and Islam have a common enemy - Christianity (Judaism too, but it doesn't have the numbers.) Leftist Socialist Secular Humanism is full of arrogance though, because its high priests think that once Christianity is eliminated, Islam can be eliminated more easily because its adherents are racially inferior.

Posted by: Sue Dohnim on December 13, 2005 04:02 PM

You're dead on about abortion though.

She may have a circle of women friends take part in the procedure itself - an ancient ritual of fertility, life, death, and rebirth. Whatever her beliefs, she is respected and honored for the thoughtful choice she has made for herself and her child who is not to be.
Posted by: Sue Dohnim on December 13, 2005 04:17 PM

Sue,

I think you and I are pretty much of a like mind on this, despite some minor divergent opinions. It's hard to deny that the Church of Leftist Secularism looks, smells, and sounds like a religion; and a particularly virulent one at that.

Your point about the illiterate sheep who listen to the priests actually meshes pretty well with my point about the members of their priesthood: It includes Journalists.

Academia is the Priesthood, and journalists are the Diaconate. Or maybe Academia is the College of the Cardinals, Journalists the Priests. Unlike the Catholic Church, there is no Pope, just a Cabal.

I really do believe that many members of the MSM -- sometimes deliberately, but largely unwittingly -- are integral members of this priesthood. They sure know how to speak the language and perform the rituals. And the sheep look up to them and listen to every word they say.

Regarding Islam. Yes, the Leftists embrace it because it is non-Western, non-Christian, and non-Jew. Pity when the radical Islamists end up blowing up Leftists. That should certainly cause cognitive dissonance if they had any brains to be dissonant with.

Oh, I forgot Racism. Racism is definitely one of the Commandments of the Left: Thou shalt judge people by the class they belong to, never by their individual attributes.

Posted by: Mark on December 13, 2005 04:29 PM

Oh, man, Sue, I read that link of yours. What a way to begin an article:

Imagine with me a world where abortion is considered a private matter to be decided by the woman herself, along with her partner, family, and/or clergy if she so chooses.
What the hell kind of clergy of any religion HELPS A WOMAN CHOOSE ABORTION?

I am an atheist, but personally that just makes me SICK.

Sometimes I hate being right.

Posted by: Mark on December 13, 2005 04:33 PM

>>That's because American "tastemakers" — elites in the media and the courts — have shaped a libertarian social consensus. That an advertising campaign, television program or song transgresses traditionalist values is irrelevant.

If it were that simple, we wouldn't have a parade of geriatrics performing at the Superbowl Halftime Show for what looks to be years to come.

Posted by: jamie r. on December 13, 2005 04:55 PM

Americans are pretty schizophrenic about this stuff, I think.

First it's "Dammit, I don't want my kids seeing Janet Jackson's nipples on Sunday TV."

The next day it's, "Dammit, whaddya mean Bob and Tom can't play The Camel-Toe Song anymore?"

(That's an Indy based morning show that had almost all of their material become verboten practically overnight. Their audience is not exactly the liberal elite.)

Posted by: jamie_r on December 13, 2005 05:05 PM

What was that link again? Moonbatdance.something?

Posted by: Brian B on December 13, 2005 05:08 PM

Someone,

I just had to give up the begging. Too much to do. That freakin teenage homeschooled blog is gonna beat me!! Arrghhhhh!

Feel free to stop the madness though!

It will take EACH AND EVERY ONE of you!!

Go DAVE!!!!!

Posted by: Rightwingsparkle on December 13, 2005 05:11 PM

"Yeah, as we get closer to the end days, folks like me and RWS really need the turnout to push us 'Over The Top' in the Weblog Awards. You know, like Stallone."

Turn your trucker hat backwards.

Posted by: Sobek on December 13, 2005 05:13 PM

Cheez, Ace, who jammed a libertarian up your ass? Seriously, the site set to win the Webby for "Best Conservative Blog" while singing hymns to Dick Cheney's cock really ought to have a better grasp what the words mean in context.

Posted by: S. Weasel on December 13, 2005 05:14 PM

>there is no Pope

Isn't it Noam Chomsky?

Posted by: Ververita on December 13, 2005 05:15 PM

Cheez, Ace, who jammed a libertarian up your ass?

I think he meant "libertine."

Posted by: geoff on December 13, 2005 05:23 PM

Because the Establishment Clause doesn't encompass sexuality?

I see a world of difference between a private prayer group in the park, and boffing in the grass. I do not see where the government is even close to "establishing a religion" by knowingly allowing it to happen. (That would be the prayer thing, not the other thing. )

(I could be wrong, though - maybe the other thing counts, too.)

If, by allowing a private prayer group to meet in the park equals establishment of religion, what does boffing in public equal?

Posted by: Tom M on December 13, 2005 11:07 PM

"If, by allowing a private prayer group to meet in the park equals establishment of religion, what does boffing in public equal?"

It's either a successful grant proposal from the National Endowment for the Arts, or a typical lunch hour for Dick Cheney.

Posted by: vivi on December 13, 2005 11:55 PM

Re: What the hell kind of clergy of any religion HELPS A WOMAN CHOOSE ABORTION?

The Jessie Jackson type of clergy. He's pro-abortion.

Posted by: MTW on December 14, 2005 07:33 AM

Related post:

"The Winter Holiday That Dare Not Speak Its Name"
http://ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/2005/12/the_holiday_tha.html

Posted by: Gina Cobb on December 20, 2005 04:17 AM
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