BULLSHIT.

MCCAIN IS *NOT* CONSERVATIVE ON SPENDING.

He is anti-pork. Which is a necessary but not exclusive aspect of being conservative on spending.

You take all the pork out of the federal budget, and we still have a federal government that is too big, too unwieldy and too expensive.

It's the entitlements, stupid. And where is McCain on that? Just as bad as Bush, but probably worse.

Oh, and then there's that whole McCain-Feingold piece of anti-democratic filth.

No to John McCain. The *only* way I will support him is if he's the nominee, and even then, I will take a long hard listen to the Democrat running against him.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

If only he didn't feel so strongly about raping the first amendment...

I don't see either of them getting vetted by the Republican Party.

They both have too much baggage of the liberal variety.

McCaine and the Incumbent Protection Bill was the worst piece of legislation I can think of, other than Kelo.

True... but like Al Gore, once you get caught dirty on campaign contributions, you have to get religion on "campaign finance reform."

The media always buys this from politicians they favor. "Well, he was caught up in the Keating Five scandal/the Buddhist Nun scandal, but now he wants to take away free speech rights from citizens, so this proves he's repented and seen the light."

It's a dispicable bill. But Bush signed it, you know? For equally cynical reasons -- McCain had built up too much of a media constituency for the bill and he lacked the guts to take them on.

If this isn't enough to say Bush is unacceptable as President, why is enough to disqualify McCain?

I had reservations about Bush (got to watch him as a governor for a while), but in the end he was the nominee against Gore so I pulled the lever. So yeah, with reservations, but I can't see a Democrat out there right now that would keep me from voting for McCain (begrudgingly).

Don't tell RWS.

“The national environment has gone to s—t and Republicans are going to take a beating in 2006,” one prominent Republican consultant – who is a movement conservative -- told me recently. “McCain is the only guy out there with the credibility to maintain Republican control in Washington.”

It's this type of thinking that I can't stand. Why in the world would I be motivated to help "maintain Republican control in Washington" when they don't deliver on conservative principles? This is just crass partisanship and "my team" politics completely divorced from ideological goals.

Since when has real, Reaganesque conservatism gone out of fashion in the GOP of all places?

Why won't McCain or Rudy get the nomination?

McCain is still crazy after all these years (after being a POW) and Rudy dressed in drag on SNL.

They are toast.

I like McCain because he is not in bed with the religious nutters.

I like McCain because he is not in bed with the religious nutters.

Nice to see that good old fashioned debate, the stuff dreams are made of, will never go out of style.

Religious nutters such as Rev. Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, and Minister Farakhan?

McCain is great on spending (but not taxes) and the war.

It is completely laughable to say that he's "hardcore" on the courts given his acquiescence on Democratic filibusters of judicial nominees.

If the Republicans are fool enough to nominate McCain, he won't get my vote. Here are just a few reasons:

1. He was a member of the infamous Keating Five.
2. Now he's a reformed whore with his "campaign finance reform"
3. He is both ways on trade and taxes, at least.
4. He knows from personal experience what torture is, yet he's trying to define torture downward.

McCain is for McCain; he takes whatever position he thinks is most popular without regard for the outcome.

I like McCain because he is not in bed with the religious nutters.

Yeah, cause Rudy and Pat Robertson? Thick as thieves, man. Tight.

Republicans are only in trouble when they cave in and piss off their conservative base. Nominating McCain would be the worst mistake they could make.

ok all you lawyer types (or law school types),

how can a Federal judge order FEMA to keep the hotel housing program going for Katrina victims?

just curious

(ace, my apologies for blatant threadjacking)

how can a Federal judge order FEMA to keep the hotel housing program going for Katrina victims?

Word processing software and an ink pen?

That's just a first stab. Haven't read the link or done the research. But I wouldn't be surprised if my first guess also turned out to be my best.

I would vote for McCain if he were the nominee and the democrat was any of the likely characters. Then it would be a showerful of lye, followed by a bathtub full of rye till the polls close.

Mercifully, I can't imagine that the party will be that desperate come 2008. Surely, some dark horse candidate will emerge before then; the Republicans do have a deeper bench than the Dems.

Tob

Two words for you, McCainites: President Allen.

McCain has his strong points, but he is also insane. I don't think I am going to let the leftist media make my presidential primary pick for me, thank you.

Oh yeah, how is that 2006 beating going? Have you cast your ballot yet? Even constant non-reporting by the MSM is starting to give way to economic triumphalism over the economy, and I would be willing to bet a lot of money over the idea that Iraq will be better in 11 months, not worse. So, yeah, this is more of the self-deluding media creating its own mirage.

Ace wrote: If this isn't enough to say Bush is unacceptable as President, why is enough to disqualify McCain?

Ace, I think you touch on an issue I think many conservatives feel sore on. One of those things was that Bush *wasn't* unacceptable to begin with, because we didn't think he'd end up signing McCain-Feingold. I'm not a narrow-issue voter on anything but the war, but had I known that Candidate Bush would sign that piece of legislation, it would have been a (justifiable) black mark against him.

I think we can all agree that Bush is better than most any Democrat, and many Republicans as well. That said, is he the best *conservative* out there? I know that label means less to you Ace than it does to some of us (you've said it before on this site, you're a Republican first).

But to those of us who believe in "first principles of the Republic," who are anti-spending not just because it's a waste of tax dollars but because *what* we spend money on is no the proper role of the federal government, the Bush Administration has been a Faustian bargain. He's good on the war, yes. . . but is he the *best* on the war? Honestly? We've had a lot of missed opportunities even there (Norm Mineta, anyone? "Religion of Peace"?).

I, and many other conservatives, are happy enough with Bush, but we're not thrilled, and I doubt many of us will be looking to vote for anyone who sniffs of Bush (heh) or the Republican pantywaists in Congress come the GOP primaries. I expect that a strong "back to core values" fiscal conservative will do very, very well in 2008-- especially if the mid-terms end up rebuking Bush.

We're not Democrats with a worse sense of fashion. We're Republicans, dammit. Let's start acting like them, for once.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

"The Base" loathes McCain. He's the Republican most likely to be found on the Sunday shows talking like a Democrat. None for me. I personally don't think he's all there. He may have become not all there through an extremely honorable process, but I still don't want him in control of anything scary.

McCain seems like he'll get the nod in 2008. I have my doubts about the man myself, but that's the way it seems to me. What I am curious about as to who'd get tapped as VP.

Everyone who knows me knows exactly what I am going to say here.

I consider myself "the base" and a "religious nutter" and I love McCain. If for no other reason than HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN BEAT HILLARY.

I don't know why you guys don't get that. It is as much about star power as anything else now and McCain has it. Not only that, he will garner that ridiculous "soccor mom" "security mom" vote that we HAVE TO HAVE to win.

Many of my fellow "moms" will vote for hillary just because she is a woman. Make no mistake about that. Don't forget. WE decide elections. Not the great INFORMED that post here.

Yes, McCain has been wrong on many things. FORGIVE HIM! Unless you want President She Monster.

Everyone on our side seems to be underestimating this beast. If we don't beat her this time, we will have 8 yrs of her too.

Senators don't make good presidents.

Hillary is not going to be the nominee in 2008, or ever. She's already drawn the ire of the MoveOn and Kos wings of the party and I think she's going to be the biggest target of all the others who run.

Hillary is never going to convince conservatives that she's not a liberal and she's never going to convince liberals that she's not a dreaded "moderate." Why? Because watching her maneuver politically is like watching a car with a bad clutch shift from one gear to another - it's so damn obvious what's going on that it's almost painful to watch.

The real fear for me is that the Democrats come to their senses and nominate someone like Tennessee governor Phil Bredensen or another Southern moderate. Then the race becomes interesting.

Plus, I cannot forgive a United States Senator for subverting the Constitution. That is unforgivable, and should be.

God help me but I've got MDS.

Sublog,

Like I said, we underestimate Hillary. I will bet you a bottle of Texas wine that she gets the nomination. There is simply NO WAY she will not. Everything she has done since she ran for Senator has been carefully calculated for this run.

She's in. No. Doubt.

I don't understand the Hillary fear, but I would rather have 4 years of Hillary instead of 4 years of weak Republican leadership from McCain, if for no other reason than RINOs might remember why the hell we are conservatives, and grow a collective spine.

Anyone remember that Simpsons sketch, when the nuclear plant's bought out by the Germans? And they get mad at Mr Burns?

"Oooh, the Germans are mad at me! The Germans! Nooo, not the Germans!" -- Mr Burns.

Anyway, I say this just so I can tell the lovely and talented Miss Rightwingsparkle that I sound JUST LIKE THAT when I respond to her invocation of that bogeywoman Hillary!

Oooh, Hillary!'s going to be President! Ooooh, not Hillary! Hillary! will get votes! Nooooo!

Seriously-- Hillary! ain't going to happen. Even if she gets the nomination-- and unlike the my comrade Slublog, I think there is a good chance of that-- her negatives are just through the flippin' roof. Besides, she's in a no-win situation with Iraq. If Bush wins the war, the Republicans get credit. But if Bush loses the war, Hillary! is tied in the Dem mind with having supported it.

Of course, personally, I think she's just biding her time to pull a Murtha-like switch, probably after whatever tea leaves she can read after the midterms. She's going to wait until the best political moment to garner the most fawning media over the inevitable tragedy of "Who lost Hillary! on the war?"

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

*shakes Dave* "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!!!"

GOOD GOD!! You people just have no idea what a Hillary Presidency would look like, do you?????

BE AFRAID!!! VERY AFRAID!!!

I was shaking both Dave's there.

I am very talented that way.

Just because Hillary has been working towards it doesn't mean she'll get it. She doesn't have the base right now, the big-money people don't like her and she's not generally a popular political figure.

I think sometimes we tend to overestimate her popularity because she, like *cough*johnmccain*cough* is built up and supported by the media, which is her true constituency.

I'll take your bet. One bottle of Texas wine, your choice, against a bottle of Winterport Winery, vintage Maine, that Hillary will not get the nomination.

I hope Hillary gets the nomination. Her campaign will make Mondale seem like a politically savvy and charismatic operation.

Humorless and spineless is not gonna beat George Allen. She may get NBC to coronate her in mid-July, but she probably wouldn't even carry NY.

Hillary is not going to be the nominee in 2008, or ever.

I wish you were right, Slubsy, I would love so much for her to be disappointed in 2008 during the primaries.

I fear you're wrong, though. There's so much that can (and will) happen between now and '08. The sheer force of her ambition and the political machine behind her make this outcome practically predestined.

McCain? I say what everybody else already said about the First Amendment. And as much as it saddens me, I have to disagree with RWS on McCain's electability (is that a word? Who knows.)

Me up there. Loosey goosey.

Don't underestimate the power of the Hillary!, or the DNC election machine.

They managed to convice over 50 million people (some of them dead, even) to vote for John Kerry, a rich, white, snob.

Hillary! will get the nomination if she is perceived (or touted by the MSM) to be, as RWS screeches, the candidate with the best chance to beat the Republican.

After Hillary! jumps that hurdle, she'll have the full support of the anti-Republican, anti-Christian, homo-loving, peace-nik, terrorist, and anti-semite in the entire world.

The same is true on the Republican side. McCain will get the nod if he is the "best" candidate, the best vote-getter, we can produce.

I was shaking both Dave's there

so that's what you call them. interesting names, unusual, but complimentary I suppose. were you wearing tassels?

last time we had a Republican president who was a moderate conservative we got 8 years of Bill Clinton. After 8 years of Ronald Reagan!

But since you're all worked up about it, I'm interested to see you describe what a Hillary presidency would look like, even though I agree with those who don't think she has a chance in hell.

Well, from what I've seen and heard from the liberals I know (and being from Maine I know a lot of them) I don't think Hillary is as popular as the media makes her out to be. You're right, though Sue, there's a lot of time between now and 2008.

Anything could happen.

And George Allen? Meh.

Sue,

But yall don't understand! We all KNOW the mushy middle decides these elections and they don't even know what the 1st Amendment IS, much less care about what McCain supposedly did with it.

"Rudy dressed in drag on SNL."

I can be very ... *persuasive*.

wow. i just don't think i could vote for him under any circumstances. even notwithstanding the fact that Tipper Gore is a bigger supporter of the First Amendment.

Ace- as to why forgive Bush on McCain-Feingold but not McCain: I for one was not happy that Bush signed it. But i'm more likely to forgive him begrudgingly for being weak and acting out of what he thought was political necessity than JM who put him in that corner to begin with. Or maybe Bush really loves McC-F. Still doesn't endear me any more to the man because W. also screwed up on the subject.

I think I'm with Dave or whoever said they might rather live through 4 years of Hillary or anyone else (Jimmy Carter again?) to remind us why we actually have conservative principles. It may be better to have her pandering to conservatives than McCain to liberals. I still wouldn't vote for her. Probably have to go libertarian for that one. It would be hard to stomach, but McCain only takes us further in the direction I don't want to see the party going. And the party isn't the end-all-be-all for me.

Supposedly did with the 1st Amendment?

RWS, this is us you're talking to, here. Nice try, though.

I caught that too Timmy. She keeps telling me she's really conservative, but she really likes the guy.

But yall don't understand! We all KNOW the mushy middle decides these elections and they don't even know what the 1st Amendment IS, much less care about what McCain supposedly did with it.

Besides, the Constitution is a living document and can mean anything you want. That's why I'm voting for Arnold in '08.

I also wouldn't underestimate the power of the Democratic echo chamber in selecting the nominee in 2008. Kos and MoveOn really are powerful forces within that party, and they help push the agenda to the left - so far, neither of those two power bases seem to like Hillary all that much.

I don't think the mushy middle decides elections anymore. Look at the success of the 72-hour project. Get people out to vote and you'll swamp your opponent - Bush's vote increase was huge, and it was a direct result of the fact that the base loved him and was willing to push and work for him.

McCain won't excite the base, and in fact will probably piss it off.

Deliberately. After all, doing such a thing would impress the media.

What can you do?
What can you say to a woman who names her boobies Dave and Dave?

I'm befuddled. Totally.

P.S. The name has changed, but I'm still the same old lovable cretin who thinks all homos hate their fathers. In case y'all didn't know.

In short Dave, the Hillary presidency would look that the lowest ring in Dante's hell. (I will from now on refer to Hillary's Presidency as "circle 9")

First, and most scary to everyone here. She was BIG on "gatekeeping" of the internet when she was 1st lady.

There won't be a gay marriage or pro-abortion law she won't support or sign. Supreme court picks will make Ruth Bader Guinsberg look like a rightwinger.

There isn't a gunownship law she won't try to knock down.

And let us not forget her favorite thing! Healthcare! She will push every socialist agenda on this score. We will be paying for more healthcare coverage for everyone, but have much less ourselves. Quantity over quality will win here.

This is just the beginning of the long circle to Zone 4....;-)

When Rudy was mayor, Yassar Arafat was not welcome in NY. After 9/11, when a Saudi prince offered NY Ten Million dollars while blaming the Jews for the attack, Rudy told him to shove his ten million dollars.

I cannot see McCain doing either of those things. McCain, in the end, loves press adulation too much. He loves the magazine covers, he loves being called a "maverick." I've never had the sense that he was ever about anything but himself. McCain would abandon conservatives in a heartbeat if he could get a Times "Man of the Year" out of it.

The only way I would vote for McCain is if it were a vote AGAINST Hillary...but frankly, they're such "good pals" I don't know that he would be, in the end, much different from she. They are both way too attached to the press.

Rudy is the guy for me.

George Allen against Hillary would be Bob Dole against Bill.

Between his lack of charisma and her sway with the press, he'd be crushed flat.

Rudy/Rice!

Timmy,

I got the idea from the old Bob Newhart show, "This is Darryl and this is my other brother Darryl."

This way I never get them confused.

Now, speaking of boobies, do ya'' really want Mr. Clinton (1st man) back in the white house????

Someone here tell me ONE PERSON who could beat Hillary. Just one. And don't give me a no name, cuz it aint gonna happen, and don't say Rudy. No freakin way he could get the nomination.

Don't forget "children's rights" RWS. It takes a village to kickstart Lebensborn.

Right Sue! And the bowing and scraping to the U.N. the most sacred of bodies according to The Gospel of Hillary.

Mitt Romney will be 44th president of the United States.

mccain would wipe the floor with the opposition...it would be fun to watch

and i believe he would put conservatice justices on the SC and keep our foreign policy strong....better than the alternative

either mccain or rudy....those are our two best hopes in 2008

Hillary's voice is just grating, like nails on a chalkboard. Rush and Laura Ingraham have been playing clips of her lately and it is disturbing. I hope a year of her campaigning nationally would be enough to turn all but the deaf against her. She's like a screeching harpy.

Let us also not forget that a serious proposal under HillaryCare was to put doctors in jail for treating people outside of the approved medical plan.

Doctors put in jail for doing their jobs.

Hillary! will be the nominee in 2008: you can take that to the bank. Who else is there? Kerry? Sharpton? Kucinich? Gore? Not much in the way of alternatives - a loser and a gaggle of nuts. Lieberman may be more electable than Hillary!, but the leftoids hate his guts.

On the Republican side, who else is there besides McCain? Perhaps Allen, though he has little name recognition here in the heartland. Perhaps Rudy, though he has baggage as well.

It wouldn't surprise me of McCain got Dubya's endorsement: because McCain could have screwed Dubya in 2004 and didn't - in fact, he worked hard to help Dubya's re-election - and Dubya is a guy who remembers his friends.

McCain does have one problem, apart from his disdain for the First Amendment: in 2008, he'll be 72, and his health is not the best. I question whether he'd be able to stand the strain of office for two terms.

Still, if it was a choice between McCain and Hillary!, I'd hold my nose and vote for McCain. And for those of you who think that four years of Hillary! would remind us of why we elect Republicans in the first place, I heard the same siren song in 1992; the problem is that the four years of Bill'n'Hillary turned out to be eight years, and we're still cleaning up the mess that that pair left behind. No thank you, once is enough.

Someone here tell me ONE PERSON who could beat Hillary. Just one. And don't give me a no name, cuz it aint gonna happen, and don't say Rudy. No freakin way he could get the nomination.

Personally, I think Guiliani will have a much better chance of getting the nomination than McCain. People like strength, and Rudy just has it.

I've seen both men speak in person. McCain is not so good - the crowd was a friendly one, and he managed to annoy us. Guiliani came into a crowd of suspicious conservatives and impressed the heck out of us.

Who else is there?
For starters:
Mark Warner
Bill Richardson
Russ Feingold

Like Ace, I favor Rudy over McCain, and Condi Rice as well if she decides to run. However, I am very much a "one issue" voter since 9/11, and McCain is fucking rock on this issue. Anyone who saw his speech at the Convention last year should never doubt that about him. And despite all the media accolades he would receive if he pulled a Murtha on Bush about Iraq, he's been one of Bush's biggest allies on it. The rest of his negatives are just background noise to me if the choice gets down to him and a Democrat in 2008. Unless the Dems nominate Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman (HA!), there won't be a bit of hesitation for me to vote for McCain.

It wouldn't surprise me of McCain got Dubya's endorsement: because McCain could have screwed Dubya in 2004 and didn't - in fact, he worked hard to help Dubya's re-election - and Dubya is a guy who remembers his friends.

This was after four years of being a pain in the ass to the president. Too little, too late.

Healthcare! She will push every socialist agenda on this score

I agree she endorses all the stuff you mention, I just don't think she could get a lot of it done.

The courts, yeah. Healthcare? nah. Guns? forget it - they're everywhere and gun rights have been on a ten-year expansion run after the brief beating they took.

anyway, I did say I would almost be willing to take 4 years of her instead of a weak conservative... I'll still vote for him if it comes down to that, but I'll hate it.

If you want to see what a Hillabeast presidency would like like, search no further than the work of Tom Kratman...

A State of Disobedience

The political winds will never again be as favorable as they were during the early 1990s for a national health care system.

Hillary! had her moment and she blew it, big time. The Congress was chock full o'Dems, people were pissed at HMOs and her husband had a high approval rating. The stars were aligned, but the plan was sunk by one person:

Hillary Rodham Clinton herself.

Her imperious management style, her penchant for secrecy, her refusal to hear any opinions that didn't back her own - all of these disagreeable character traits doomed her healthcare plan and sent her into political oblivion until 1995 or so.

Hillary! is her own worst enemy.

BTW - I've seen HRC give a speech in person as well.

She's terrible at it. Simply awful. Stepped on applause lines, got shrieky when she shouted, maintained a pedantic tone throughout as though we were all her inferiors.

It was comedy gold.

So far, I like George Allen. What's not to like?

[George Allen] always wears cowboy boots (“not if I’m cutting the grass — yeah, well, then too”). He likes big belt buckles and he dips tobacco, consuming about a can every three or four days of Copenhagen, which is strong stuff (“dark-fired, probably from Tennessee or Kentucky”). A spit cup is always nearby, and he does an intricate little ritual without touching the tobacco when putting some in his mouth — opening the can, scooping the snuff onto the top of the lid, replacing the lid on top of the can, then swiping the can near his mouth to tuck the tobacco into his lower lip.

McCaine is persona non grata with me. The legislative trash he's responsible for, along with his loose shit on the GWoT means I don't give a tinker's cuss about anything he says during a campaign season. I voted for Bush in 04 in spite of the McF, and only because he'd been rock solid on the GWoT. As far as I'm concerned, if it's a choice between McCaine and Hillary! I don't much care who gets it. We'd be in for rough times either way.

I could name half a dozen I would LIKE to be our next President, but we have to deal with political reality here folks.

Sublog,

The conservatives (especially the religious right) will just not stand for an overtly pro-choice, pro-gay marriage guy like Rudy, no matter HOW good a speech he gives. Rudy will have to take a cabinet post.

re: McCain and the GWoT:

If he's so rock solid on the war, why is he pushing for a superfluous ban on torture? He won't even define it, and his bill will definitely define torture down to "degrading" treatment.

You can take that to the bank... give some lawyers and the courts a whack at it and before you know it, imprisonment will equal "torture"

Matt,

You might have to give McCain a bit of a pass of the torture thing. I mean if one has themselves been tortured for 6yrs in a POW camp, you tend to have strong feelings about it.

The conservatives (especially the religious right) will just not stand for an overtly pro-choice, pro-gay marriage guy like Rudy, no matter HOW good a speech he gives. Rudy will have to take a cabinet post.

But we'll have to stand for an anti-free speech, hostile to the religous right, squishy on gay marriage guy like McCain?

Sorry, he's just not going to pass muster with the base.

It wasn't Guiliani's speech that was good - it wasn't a particulary good speech - it was the realization as he spoke that this guy wasn't going to buckle under pressure - not pressure from the media or the 'international community' or anyone. Rudy is a strong guy who I trust to do the right thing.

What it comes down to for me is that I don't trust McCain at all. Not one bit. He's driven by his insecurities.

joeindc: Two words for you, McCainites: President Allen.

There you go. I was about to ask this thread if anybody had an opinion on the guy.

And then a real Maverick chimed in (btw, that article is from NR, if anybody is interested).

RWS: I'm with you, too. Anybody but Hillary. But on the other hand, I don't think that'll really be the problem (he says, being very optimistic).

RWS:
I admire McCain's service to our country and think that he personally deserves all our respect given the treatment he endured as a POW. He showed great character by enduring that treatment even when he didn't have to.

That doesn't mean that he isn't wrong in pushing a bill that will hinder our intelligence gathering capabilities. I just think that not only is he wrong, but he's doing it to garner political points.

If it comes down to McCain vs. Hillary, I will vote for McCain, but only after a substantial number of adult beverages to steel myself against the follow up self hate.

Giuliani would be my choice, but I'm not sure he can get around the adultery and leaving a wife with cancer thing that many on the right can not forgive him for. I think Frist is a no go due to Schiavo (not for me as I agreed with him). This leaves Romney and Pataki as possible of which I would choose the NY governor first.

Slub: Hillary! is her own worst enemy.

Except for Gore on the left and Dick Cheney on the right.

Gore, because she neutered him repeatedly for 8 years.

DC, because he's eff'n Dick Cheney, dammit. And he's the man ....

I think Frist is a no-go for being a spineless twit who seems powerless against the machinations of that political genius Harry Reid.

You might have to give McCain a bit of a pass of the torture thing

I might, if I thought he wasn't pandering for political gain while putting our country at risk.

Frist is a failure in almost every sense. Head of the Senate Majority, he has been bullied into submission time and again. As a doctor, he promoted the prescription drug bill. Good gravy!

Fuck McCain, he'll be lucky to get my vote if he runs for senate as well. If he's the nominee against Hillary I'm staying home in 2008.

That's right. I'd rather have Hillary as president than John McCain.

Whoa. Hey. Whoa.
What's this?

Sure, McCain sucks. But with the presidency comes cabinet appointments and Judges.
Hillary will give us more Madeline Albrights and Sandy Bergers and David Souters. Is that what you want?

At least with McCain, he'll have to throw a few bones to his base once in a while on top of assembling a decent cabinet.

At least with McCain, he'll have to throw a few bones to his base once in a while on top of assembling a decent cabinet.

He was unwilling to be civil to the base during his 2000 campaign. What makes you think, once president, he'll do anything to placate (sorry) them?

That's right. I'd rather have Hillary as president than John McCain.

You don't know what your saying. Have a few drinks and think about a world with her in charge of the military and the IRS. Then have a few more drinks.

As for the Frist = spineless, worthless leader comments. I agree.

Like JFK's hookers, hopefully Allen's snuff habit will be given a wink-wink from the old media. May not work well in metro country.

I would agree with Slublog's take on HRC, just based on speech excerpts. She would be so awful on the TV, she would be given more stealth treatment than Kerry was (remember, he got more popular the less air time he had). However, since she is obviously a bitter socialist, I would have to say that I would vote for McCain, just to make sure, man.

I did not expect to see the bitterness toward McCain over the prinicples of the First Amendment though. In what is probably a very underwhelming defense, he did get snookered by the folks who wrote the law, making it something bigger than it was supposed to be. Also, creating all those 501(c) organizations in the process.

If it comes down to a choice between Hillary! and McCain, I've got to go with McCain. But, like Defense Guy, I'm going to need a few stiff drinks afterward to quiet the voices of self-loathing.

What makes you think, once president, he'll do anything to placate (sorry) them?

Heh. Three words.

Re-

Elect-

ion.

Besides that, he has to give speeches in front of friendly audiences, raise money for his party, and have the support of some of the American people to push the agenda.

Timmy has an excellent point which is being largely overlooked by the MSM at this point. Of course, nobody paid much attention to George Bush 2 1/2 years before his first run either.

Mitt Romney is an extremely attractive candidate and not just because he looks like he and his family were sent from central casting. He has an MBA and JD from Harvard. He was the CEO of the Salt Lake City Olympic games which were a huge sporting and financial success which is not to be overlooked since virtually nobody else has been able to pull this off. Founded Bain Capital which was an extremely successful management consulting/VC firm. Unlike a good many of the candidates I keep hearing about he actually does know his way around a spreadsheet and a thing or two about fiscal responsibility. He also came as close as anyone has to unseating fat Teddy for his Senate seat and ran a great Governor's race in MA of all places.

His religious credentials should get the blessing of the far right, even though he is a Mormon he is very sincere about it and not one of these politicians who finds religion just in time to run for office.

He is a conservative in the truest sense of the word. I think he stacks up quite well compared to the rest of the class. Possibily most important, he is not a Senator. In case nobody has noticed, they don't do particularly well in Presidential races.

The jokes a man tells says alot about his character, principles, judgment, mental stability...

The joke was in poor taste, but come on...David Corn complaining about decreasing civility in politics?

The jokes a man tells says alot about his character, principles, judgment, mental stability...

Awwww, hell. Now I might vote for the guy.

So you don't have to:
Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno."

With a joke like that, Ace might have to give an endorsement.

The joke was in poor taste

Didn't we just come off of 4 days of Dick-Cheney-rophenia?

Yeah, yeah, I know. We're not Senators.

That joke instills a little faith in me about John McCain.

Let me try.

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Her father is Hillary Clinton.

The choice between Hilary and McCain is like a choice between John Kerry and Ted Kennedy. Screwed either way. No conservative has a dog in that fight. If McCain wins, you lose your right to free speech. If Hillary wins, we will at least have a continual battle against her ideas. McCain will split the Republicans like they have never been split before and will undoubtedly be the worst president in U.S. history. Try to think of one conservative idea that this media created narcissist has come up with on his own. I can't think of one either. Most likely you can read the N.Y. TIMES editorials and get a pretty clear idea of what McCain would advocate if elected President.He'll be way to the left of Bill Clinton. In fact I'd vote for Bill Clinton before I'd vote for McCain and I've never voted for a Democrat presidential candidate in my life.

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

You'd be ugly too if your mother's womb was a portal to hell.

McCain's latest piece of legislation is indeed horrendous not only because it defines torture downward but because it also explicitly affords terrorists held abroad the same rights and protections against "mistreatment" that American citizens now hold in state prisons. This, if passed, would open up the government to lawsuits not only for damages but also in equity. The damage would do to our efforts to stamp out terrorism would far outweigh the positives of McCain's support of the GWoT.

McCain is as fit to be president as my two-year old nephew is to drive my truck and the spectre of the Hildebeast doesn't scare me enough to cast my better judgement aside and support the man.

If any other Republican had told that joke, the MSM would have crucified him. If you wanted to protect the MSM against competition from other media, you couldn't do better than the McCain Feingold legislation.

I am surprised that Ace would support someone so obviously in bed with the MSM.

Loose shit. That last sentence of the first paragraph should read the damage that this would do to our efforts... etc.

My disdain for McCain is the same disdain I feel for crooked cops. I dislike them far more than I do the known criminal who does the same thing.

If Hillary wins, we will at least have a continual battle against her ideas. McCain will split the Republicans like they have never been split before and will undoubtedly be the worst president in U.S. history.

Ex-actly. A Hillary win would be better--than McCain--for Republicans in the long run. We cannot let that weasel become our candidate.

I loathe McCain for the opportunistic, corrupt, immoral piece of crap that he is. But if my nightmare scenario of McCain vs Hillary! comes to pass, I'll pull the lever for him anyway. Words cannot describe how much I hate that filthy c*nt.

Allen dips Cope? he's got my vote....heh

i can't imagine the press overlooking that in an election

And like others, if it comes down to Mccain vs hillary, well im voting mccain. have to think about the big picture

And throw me in with john & Sortelli- I'd take a Hillary! canidacy before a McCain one. I'll vote for her myself if the choice is McCain or an antiwar Libertarian kook (seriously, what happened to the LP? They would have got my vote in 04 if it wasnt for JFK and the kook they ran ,Russo?)

I think it was 2004, on the anniversary of 9/11, when the Libertarian Party's presidential candidate asked people to wear a black ribbon... in memory of all the people that have been killed by American aggression.

I consider myself to have quite a few libertarian leanings, but I'm definitely not a Libertarian.

Hillary probably would not be as big a catastrophe as many of you think, in my opinion. She'd be restrained by congress and she'd probably only serve one term if the Republicans played their cards right.

McCain is already death to the First Amendment; I can just imagine how little respect he'd have for our liberty to criticize him were he to become President.

I think it was 2004, on the anniversary of 9/11, when the Libertarian Party's presidential candidate asked people to wear a black ribbon... in memory of all the people that have been killed by American aggression.

Yeah, couldn't be more with you. The LP used to get about 50% of my vote, but after 9/11 and their anti-war nonsense, I found myself right back with the Republicans.

National Defense always comes first to me. None of the rest matters if you don't have a country in the first place.

The War,

That is kind of how I feel about abortion. None of the rest matters if you don't have a life.

Not to change the course of this thread. (Please!) Just a thought I had when reading yours.

Ex-actly. A Hillary win would be better--than McCain--for Republicans in the long run.

This is like rooting for your team to lose so that they get the first draft pick. I'd rather have at least a play off berth, thanks.

There are so many reasons that this is wrong, there may not be enough room on whatever SAN this is going to be stored on. How about we just stick with the fact that a president at least has to work with the Congress, which will likely remain Republican. Can you see hillary playing the gender card every time she has her sizable ass handed to her by Hastert?

I happen to think that McCain is a liar, a snake, and a right bastard. But at least he'd be accountable to reasonable folks rather than MoveOn.org.

Think about that - Kos in the Lincoln bedroom.

Still want Hillary as president?

How about this? The entire 25th ID holding their noses when Hillary! visits for Thanksgiving. After she has reduced their funding and drawn down the reserve units so that the government can "shrink."

Remember, it's not just one person in the White House, but every member of the Executive Branch. Who do you want? Rumsfeld? or Kerry? or how about McCain as the token Republican member of a Hillary! cabinet?

Sorry to resort to scare tactics.

If Hillary's the Dem nominee, dead Republicans will vote in '08.

And I don't just mean in the sense that dead Democrats vote in Chicago either: they'll claw themselves out of the ground and crawl to the polling places, leaving a trail of rotting flesh from the cemetaries to the voting booths.

And throw me in with john & Sortelli- I'd take a Hillary! canidacy before a McCain one. I'll vote for her myself if the choice is McCain or an antiwar Libertarian kook (seriously, what happened to the LP? They would have got my vote in 04 if it wasnt for JFK and the kook they ran ,Russo?)

The LP candidate in 2004 was Badnarik.

Due almost solely to his signing of BCFRA- I did not vote for GWB in 2004... and I live in Ohio, and knew how close it was going to be(I ended up voting 'Constitutional Party'- Peroutka?).

Anyways, I'd vote for a fat shitbag like Michael Moore before I'd vote for John McCain...

That is kind of how I feel about abortion. None of the rest matters if you don't have a life.

RWS, I know that's true about you (I'm pro-life myself),

but that confuses me even more about your passion for McCain. He's made the standard "with these exceptions" pro-life statements. Including support for fetal tissue research. And you know just overturning Roe will not end abortion, it will only end it in some states. Frankly I wonder how Texas would go. We've had a hell of a time just getting a parental notification law passed.

If he's your guy because of his "pro-life" position, you could do better. If he's your guy because he's the only guy who actually has a chance of winning that's reasonably close to your position, I'd suggest you take another look at Romney.

But I get it, it's your one-issue deal. So I can quit bugging you about it. Yay! xoxo

DeeDaGo, no argument on how bad Hillary could be (although I agree with other commenters who make the point that she would have trouble implementing a large part of her agenda),

but, as with the Miers nomination mess, I am perfectly ready to send Republican a message, "quit screwing around on conservatism or you're not worth voting for, and I'm willing to take you out of power for 4 years to make the damn point."