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« Democrats Fret "Preemptive Surrender" Policy Makes Them Look Weak | Main | Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day »
December 07, 2005

Comment of the Day

We are at war - mistakes will be made, people will be killed, the enemy will sometimes outsmart us, etc. I find this whole expectation that we should never suffer setbacks or make mistakes very annoying.

I remember reading how during the Guadalcanal campaign Nimitz would constantly remind his gloomy subordinates that the enemy was suffereing and losing ships also.

In his memoirs, Grant (when he was just a militia colonel) wrote about leading a regiment to attack a Confederate camp. He was scared and kept imagining everything that could go wrong. He was outnumbered, it was a trap, etc. He got to the camp and the Confederates had run away. He used that to remind himself that the enemy is also scared and also screws up.

I forget which general said that you can not judge a battle by the rear area of your own army. There will always be wounded, confusion, people running away, etc. The media coverage now does this.

-- steve_in_hb

And remember Afghanistan -- another war that was lost for three or four weeks, until it was won.

I forget Steven den Beste's term for this -- I don't think it was his term, actually; I just learned it from him -- that some armies degrade smoothly and others degrade catastrophically.

Our army degrades smoothly. You can kill our men, but until you've done something nearly incomprehensible like kill 50% of them and cut off further resupply and reinforcement, you can't actually cause the army to degrade catastrophically. If you kill 10 men out of 159,000, you've managed to reduce the American military's effectiveness in Iraq by a commensurate percentage. Something south of 0.001%.

On the other hand, as Afghanistan shows, there's a lot of invisible "hollowing out" of enemy forces such as the ones we face in Iraq. They seem to be maintiaining their effectiveness until one day command, communications, or logistics are overwhelmed and the entire terrorist structure suddenly cracks, and then shatters.

All of this is invisible to stateside civilians. Indeed, 60% of it is invisible to our boys over there and military intelligence.

Den Beste's Original Essay On "Graceful Failure:" Here.

A commenter said this was a thoughtful and intelligent piece.

Well of course it was. I stole it from den Beste.


posted by Ace at 06:39 PM
Comments



Hell, I remeber how Afghanistan was lost before we had one boot on the ground. "It's the graveyard of invaders", "If the Soviets couldn't take Afghanistan, how can we?", etc.

Posted by: Azrael on December 7, 2005 06:59 PM

Humor, plane tickets, clam hair spotting, borrowed book protection, historical factoids, and pop culture references. Is there anything steve_in_hb can't do?

Posted by: not_steve_in_hb on December 7, 2005 08:24 PM

Geeze Ace, that was almost a perfect post. Interesting, motivational, and literate. What did you do with the real Ace?

Posted by: erik on December 7, 2005 08:55 PM

316 special forces on the ground, Kandahar falls in 49 days.

Of course we 'lost'Tora Bora by using proxy forces...and we 'lost' Shah-i-Kot by using regular forces...

But won the war, of course.

Posted by: Aaron on December 7, 2005 09:16 PM

goddam left has no clue how we fight.

Posted by: Dave in Texas on December 7, 2005 09:37 PM

The term you were looking for from me was "graceful failure".

Posted by: Steven Den Beste on December 7, 2005 11:52 PM

Well, the comment system clobbered my link:

http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/04/Gracefulfailure.shtml

Posted by: Steven Den Beste on December 7, 2005 11:53 PM

Wellington said that "There is nothing half so melancholy as a battle lost, except a battle won." Since a battle lost and a battle won look more like each other, than either looks like anything in normal life, it's always possible to describe a battle won as a battle lost. It doesn't prove anything.

Posted by: Bob Hawkins on December 8, 2005 02:25 PM
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