technically most Americans were already awake. it was like, 1-something in the afternoon in DC.

is that nit-picking? am I killing this thread?

It was more like 10am.

really? it was just before 8 at Pearl. that's what, 4 hours from the central tz. Even if there was no daylight savings time back then, it'd have been noon in DC

well, I thought the japanese embassy dude in Tora Tora Tora that couldn't type worth a damn was supposed to deliver the last part of the ultimatum to Secretary Hull before 1pm, but maybe that was some hollywood license.

You're right, DiT. I was thinking 9/11.

Maybe "awoke" is used metaphorically?

ah, my bad, I did not make that clear!

9/11 was about 9:30. I remember because I was getting on a commuter flight from Boston to NY which obviously never left.

When I first glanced at that headline, I thought it said that there were no operational ties between Osama bin Ladin and Benihana.

Which is probably true. Because if there were, the headchoppers would have had much better quality knives...

Did we even have time zones back in '41?

Time zones were established by the railroads so that trains could run on time and be "apparently" on time as the sun moved across the sky.

Daylight savings time, though, I think was established during WWii for essentially the same reason.

J

Yes, 1941, which 64 years ago was the current year.

Actually time zones were created after the Civil War in order that the White House was always an hour ahead of the defeated centrally located Southerners. Daylight savings created so Eisenhower could play more golf.

Time zones were created by the Chinese, because they got tired of waking up when it's dark and sleeping when it's light. As if standing upside down all the time weren't bad enough.

China only has one time zone, but it should have 2 or 3 if not more.

BTW, I wonder why the Democrats weren't screaming about our troops fighting Vichy French troops in 1942...wasn't it Japan that attacked us?

USA lost thousands of men in Operation Torch to the French...

so of course this excuses the US regime for interning 1000's of yellow people in concentration camps?

Pretty much.

I mean, in retrospect, sure, we shouldn't have done that.

Does it put us on the same level as the Axis?
mmmmmmNO.

Knemon, I'm not entire sure that, given the situation at the time, interning the people of Japanese descent wasn't justified. Remember, there were also indications that there were sabotage units amongst the Nissie. Like today, intelligence can be wrong and, like today, after a major hit on US soil, people weren't willing to bet US lives. Another problem was the Nissie themselves - none were out there condeming the Japanese Imperialism in the newspapers, etc. Most Americans had no idea of which way the Nissie would jump after Pearl Harbor. HISTORY tells us they were loyal citizens, but that's 20-20 hindsight.

I guess. That's what I mean by "in retrospect."