Bottomline is that I don't remember who told me what half the time. As to Plame, this just underscores that it was no big deal and that information like this is always floating around.

Oh, did you have a good time at the conference this morning, Ace?

Ace, that's the wrong reporter. The NYT's Adam Clymer is the "major league asshole".

The Post's Walter Pincus is, of course, a "big-time suckwipe". I can see how you'd get these confused, but I'm sure you'll want to correct that. The blogosphere has standards to uphold.

I'm just mister corrections today.

Maybe, we need a deck of cards for reporters?

Thats sooo sweet. My own little Fitzmas orgasm scenario (FOS) always had a member of the fourth branch (er, fifth column) getting indicted. If only I had some crazy on me, I could mention (argue is too strong of a word for what idiots were doing wrt fitzmas doom scenarios or FOS's) that this was why Fitzie is keeping his monkey circus grand jury tour alive.

But this is still so funny, good for Michelle on picking this point up.

That was Betsy Newmark guest blogging for Michelle. Loose shit.

I know it was clymer who was the original major league asshole. But there are a lot of them. And Clymer's retired.

Ah, Pincus was promoted then? Good for him. He's certainly earned it on the Plamegate thing.

I meant good for michelle for getting that great guest host. Good managing skillz.

Did somebody say Julie Newmar is guest-blogging at Michelle Malkin's?

Thanks for correcting me on Michelle's guest blogger.

Thanks for the "major league asshole" post See-Dubya. Interesting read. Now when my family accuses me of cursing too much, I'll just tell them it's only 'salty language'.

I can't wait for Scooter's lawyer to start subpoenaing these idiots.

"Thanks for correcting me on Michelle's guest blogger."

What do you mean? It's always said Betsy Newmark...

I don't see this helping Libby's case, at all. Libby's lies are still lies, as laid out in the indictment.

But one thing it hammers home: the MSM has been in bed with this admin for years. Woodward had to be subpoenaed before he could start telling what he knows.

Check out for a prosecutor's view of what it means.

It means it isn't over, not by a long shot.

Here too.

You guys need to look at how Fitz worked other cases. Indictments issued over a couple of years, slowly and carefully, and very high rate of conviction.

I think he's got Cheney in his sights.

Forgot to point out that Woodward still hasn't spilled the beans about the other senior admin official.

Who is it?

And why is Bush doing absolutely nothing to find out, after promising to get to the bottom of it?

If Bush was lied to, why has he fired no one?

If he knew the truth, why has he covered it up for two years?

Great that's about 1 moore's worth of crazy. down. the. drain.

Since some people never bother to do anything except masterbate publicly about upcoming impeachments, I figured you could figure out how to spin this, bitch

hey joeindc44,

Did you ever get to the point of figuring out that people like Judy Miller and Woodward have been the best buddies this WH ever had?

Do you realize Woodward is promoting his next book, on Bush's 2nd term? And that his relationship has been so cozy that he gets all kinds of inside info (as confirmed in his first book)?

Oh yeah, bring on the subpoenas. Let's see who Woodward is protecting. Woodward is the liar who claimed the CIA's investigation showed that revealing Plame's covert status did little damage -- until the CIA said that's not what happened.

Sit and spin on it.

well, i guess that settles everything.

Before anyone comes unglued and demands to know how I can claim X and Y and Z, go check out the very lengthy Woodward interview transcripts posted by Atrios, and this on Woodward's new claims:

Why would you grant confidentiality to something which is "almost gossip" and told to you in an "offhand manner." What ethical issue prevented you from telling the world that an administration source had given you that information as you could do so without revealing the identity of the source? Why could you not tell the world about this when you felt free to share the information with Pincus (denied by him).

Scroll down from that link to read the backstory on Woodward's revelations. I'm only saying that you can read for yourself what Woodward has been saying about this case. Got it? Read Woodward's words, in lengthy excerpts (not out of context).

Tubino,

Ahh, now Woodword is the devil. I see, it all makes sense. Every fact that hurts your paranoid fantasy is incorporated into your paranoid fantasy.

Even if everything you say is true about the Plame matter, no "outing" of an undercover agent has been found or charged. Instead, one person is charged with lying about who he told what to. So, even if everything you say is true, there is no grand conspiracy and Joe Wilson is still a scumbag liar - as proven many times over.

Thus, what does this grand conspiracy get you? Nothing. It's more fun watching you spin and lose whatever limited brain function you have left over this than almost anything. (And, by you, I mean all ofyou idiot lefties - KOS, Atrios, etc.)

I'm enjoying it.

Thanks.

Vanilla Thunder.

Hey Tubby,
MERRY FITZMAS!!!

Is it Fitzmas again?
Good ol' Fitz. The gift that keeps on giving.

Oh, so now Woodward is the enemy, huh? A guy in bed with the administration?

Guess you could say he's the Grinch Who Stole Fitzmas.

If he knew the truth, why has he covered it up for two years?

I would imagine because nobody asked him.

Anyone who cites Atrios is obviously a nutter and on thin ice. Result: Tinfoil alert! Faulty logic! Unintelligent! Ignore!

MikeD:

Anyone who cites Atrios is obviously a nutter

No shit. That's like tapping Madonna for tips on Talmudic law.

Is it just me or does anybody else think tubby is filling the Cedarford vacuum nicely? Michael?

Brewfan , my dear friend (eat me!):

My comment copied from the thread immediately below:

Here's a simple way to test your emotional maturity:
Can you resist an easy bitch-slapping of Tubino?

In other words, no. Cedarford was the highest quality troll. He was consistently intelligent, funny, and demented. And you could goad him to further excesses if you played him right.

I confess that tubino has his moments. There are occasional flashes of humor, informed opinion, and even common sense, but he never brings enough game to provoke me to a response. Cock-whipping tubino is just not worth the effort. I would feel like I had sullied myself.

So, my position remains the same:

BRING BACK CEDARFORD!!!!!!

Looks like Scooter's lawyers will be basing their defense on the fact that you can't expose a secret agent who's about as secretive as Dennis Rodman.

Heck, they won't even have to bring any facts into evidence. They'll have media members in the courtroom standing up & announcing "I had the leak in June" "No, I had the leak in April" "Hah! I had the leak in November of '02".

Much like Johnny Cochran's famous "Chewbacca Defense", I predict that this strategy will get a catchy nickname. May I be so bold as to suggest: the "No, I'm Spartacus" defense?

"Even if everything you say is true about the Plame matter, no "outing" of an undercover agent has been found or charged. "

Admission that you haven't read the indictment, or Fitz's press conference transcript. Or the papers.

"Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community. Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life. The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well-known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security. Valerie Wilson's cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003."

"Let me say two things. Number one, I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward. I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003. "

As far as Woodward goes, LOOK, the guy is admitting that a Bush Senior Administration Official TOLD him this stuff, right at the time when the apparent conspiracy was to out Plame, in June 2003.

ace tells us, Betsy asks if Fitzgerald will give Pincus a pass on his faulty memory, why not do the same for Libby?

I don't see anyone getting a pass yet, but again, try to keep in mind the facts. Someone approached Fitz, and Woodward confirmed that he was indeed told about Plame.

So how important is it whether or not he told Pincus? Maybe he did, but if so, why could he do that, and not tell anyone else (without revealing the source)? If he didn't, why would he make it up?

Makes no sense.

Blockquote above were from Fitz' press conference.

I have no idea what kind of kool-aid you guys are drinking, but as I mentioned weeks ago, Fitz is a patient guy who issues indictments over a period of time. He's building his case. He just got Woodward's testimony, which if you stop and think for a minute, gives Fitz another brick in the case for a conspiracy at the highest leve of the Bush admin.

Two years ago, W told his staff to step forward if they knew anything.

Rove, Cheney, Libby, Ari Fleischer (and maybe Bolton, Fred Fleitz, and who knows who else) either played Bush for a chump, and he's letting them get away with it, or Bush has been lying all this time.

Predictably, someone screams about Atrios, even after I explain that the point is that you can go there and read LENGTHY transcripts of Woodward on this topic, and see the contradictions yourself.

Or you can scream, stick your head in the sand, and kick up sand like a ninny.

FITZMAS IS REAL, DAMMIT!

LONG LIVE FITZMAS!!!

"Garraghhh, Fitzmas will happen, I know it will, this link to some random ass crazy person proves it."

The pissy throes of a troll starving for lack of affection. And to think I spent so much time digging up links to shit that would inform the debate a coupla weeks ago.

I am not as mature as Michael, I still like to poke it with a stick, but I will learn. And when that happens, I can finally say, this time, the good guys won.

What are you guys so exercised about?

Two years ago Bush said he was going to get to the bottom of it.

He didn't.

Fitz has the evidence that Plame was outed. That's a crime, though maybe not something that can be convicted with the Espionage Act.

The indictment shows how many people were in on it.

They lied to Bush, or he's in on it.

Yet you still deny the basic facts.

That is some strong, grade A, self-delusion.

It's put up or shut up time:

If Plame was illegally outed, why didn't Libby get indicted for that?

What the Fitz prosecution (it's not a special investigation, hence no public report) has already shown is how determined the Cheney admin was to get their version of "facts" out there, how determined they were to smear any truthtellers, and how complicit some key players in the MSM were to aid them.

That was the real gift of Fitzmas -- and it's not over by a long shot.

So, in fact, I'm pleased with the truths that are coming out. I always figured it was going to be a long slow haul. Libby's trial promises to be extremely entertaining.

Still looking for anyone willing to put up in the form of a wager. I think there will be another indictment. UJ, VT, BrewFan... anyone? Any one actually believe what they are saying here?

Or are you just sand-kicking ninny ostriches?

"If Plame was illegally outed, why didn't Libby get indicted for that?"

I buy Fitz's explanation, from his press conference. And it's completely consistent with the indictment.

What part of that do you disagree with, or not understand?

Put up or shut up indeed.

Let me guess: the next move is for someone to claim they can't use google, and insist that I post a link, or the whole thing.

Then someone else will decry a link to the Department of Justice as loony leftwing, or will tell me I can't expect people to read all those big words -- what am I THINKING?!?

Tubino, does it hurt much when the Canadian national hockey team gang bangs your chubby, Ned Beattyesque ass or do you just kinda get numb back there after the 3rd or 4th helping?

How about that lying Cheney, anyway?

From NYT tomorrow:

A senior administration official said that neither President Bush himself, nor his chief of staff, Andrew H. Card Jr., nor his counselor, Dan Bartlett, was Mr. Woodward's source. So did spokesmen for former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, former C.I.A. Director George J. Tenet and his deputy John E. McLaughlin.

A lawyer for Karl Rove, the deputy White House chief of staff who has acknowledged conversations with reporters about the case and remains under investigation, said Mr. Rove was not Mr. Woodward's source.

Vice President Cheney did not join the parade of denials. A spokeswoman said he would have no comment on an ongoing investigation. Several other officials could not be reached for comment.

"It's put up or shut up time:

If Plame was illegally outed, why didn't Libby get indicted for that?"

Why do you people keep asking this question? Fitzgerald made it clear, the reason he couldn't bring charges for outing Plame is because Libby's lies interfered with the investigation. It's called obstruction of justice. You guys seem to think if Libby managed to throw up a smokescreen, he "wins." Fitzgerald made it clear that you can't assume from the indictment that Libby committed the underlying crime, but you also can't assume that he wasn't guilty. I hope you don't mind if I cut and paste this answer when one of you guys asks the same question tomorrow.

And I know it pleases you guys to think that Woodward's admission somehow supports the idea that "everyone" knew Plame's identity. This is ridiculous. He didn't say that he heard it on the cocktail circuit. If what Woodward says is true, then someone in the Administration did what Libby's accused of, only a month earlier. Wow, that's something to brag about. Woodward didn't even tell his editor, so it hardly means that "everyone" knew Plame's identity. As a matter of fact, it's interesting that the only two people who say they knew Plame's identity are right wing journalists. Wilson sure picked a funny bunch to confide in.

I got two words for you, Colin Motherfucking Powell, that's who.

Its like watching the T1000 drown in molten iron as the troll starves. Flail mo' fo', as you spin, bitch.

sigh, Libby's alleged perjury/obstruction relates to how he felt when he talked to Tim Russert, you shit heads. Its seems like Fitzy was able to figure everything else out. Even if he did not bother to roger Watergateman himself.

By his own words, Woodward has had "extraordinary access" in the preparation of several books.

Notwithstanding, I find it hard to buy that a guy who took down a President now is acting to defend one. You can bet your last ruble that if Woodward thought he had anything like Watergate, he would be on it like white on rice.

Let's take it on faith that he is not a neocon secret agent.

Both sides I think, could benefit from Woodward's criticism of this investigation. At an earlier time, he himself might easily have been the subject of a prosecutor on a mission. There but for the grace...

This was not Watergate and it was not even Whitewater. I, like Woodward, continue to maintain that Plamegate was very minor, and not worth inhibiting the flow of information from would be whistle blowers over.

No, wait.

What if Nixon was like Obi Wan.? He sacraficed himself so that a young neoJedi could suceed where he failed. It all makes sense when you think about it, Watergate gives Woodward the perfect cover to, 30 years later, allow Bush and his cabal to "out" the very essence of American undercover operations.

Its almost too perfect.

Yes, Bob Woodward is known for ferociously protecting the scandals of Republican administrations.

Karl Rove has the easiest job ever.

Yes, Bob Woodward is known for ferociously protecting the scandals of Republican administrations.

Woodward gave the Bush gang such a big BJ in his first book that he is the kind of guy that gets stories like the Plame leak.

Figure it out: Novak, Miller, Woodward...

Of COURSE it's the reporters very friendly to this admin who got the leak!

Do you think Libby was going to call Paul Krugman or Bob Herbert?!?

With guys like Sortelli uncritically picking up the RNC talking points, Rove does have a nice setup in place.

The Bob Woodward who reported on Watergate 30 years ago was a hungry reporter on the story of his life. Bob Woodward today makes his money from writing books made possible by the access he has to politicians in power, and he protects that access by taking care of his sources. No, he isn't the devil, but he's also not the hero to liberals that the Republicans would like to make him out to be. This spin that liberals are now turning on one of their own is coming strictly from the Right. It makes for a nice neat story, but it just ain't true.

Woodward reported on one big scandal 30 years ago. And as hard as it is ofr many of you to believe, every reporter's stories aren't strictly guided by their personal political beliefs. It may comfort you to think that Woodward wanted to go after Nixon as part of a liberal conspiracy to drive him from office. In fact, he was a reporeter who had the goods on one of the crookedest Presidents this country's ever had. Sure, liberals were glad that Woodward did his job, but I don't know anyone who has thought of him as any kind of liberal hero in the last 20 years.

Following your point Chris, wouldn't it make sense for Woodward to absolutley go after this "scandal" and hype it for all it was worth? If he is strictly in the business of making money writing books, what could possibly be juicier than helping to either hobble or bring down another administration?

Yet Woodward has been saying for months that this is a nothing scandal. He has been saying it (much to the shagrin of the left if you are being honest) in print and on TV. What possible motive would this man, who has as you note tremendous access to politicians have for attempting to bury the story and sit on information? His access to politicians is not one sided. He has as much access to Dems as he does Repubs and any damage he may have done to his relationship with Repubs would have been more than offset by the love he would have gotten from the left. And in any case, he did a fine job of exposing Nixon while protecting sources 30 years ago. I'm quite sure"America's foremost political investigative reporter" could have done it again.

Whether he was digging for facts as a reporter and asst managing editor of the post (where presumably they still put some value on reporting by their star reporters) or digging for facts to write a book, attempting to minimize the "scandal" makes no sense at all. If he thought this was big he would have been shouting it from the rooftops.

I'm on record months ago as saying the source is Powell, denial notwithstanding. Woodward is tight with Powell, but I suspected Powell--"no partisan gunslinger"--months ago. This cinches it for me.

Powell makes a little more sense than Cheney. But in the wish-based community, Powell's head on a spike just doesn't have the same cachet as a Cheney or Rove. Plus, I daresay that if Powell did do it, its no longer illegal for that same reason.

Of course, since Fitzgie is a prosecutor's prosecutor, I am sure he was all over that. His monkey circus is a quagmire, if you can't frogmarch Rove out the White House, then what good are you? But we already discussed all the elements of that matter.

We may be seeing a backlash by reporters against "the system" over Judy's experience (or rather the example it set), where a bunch of them sit on sensitive info until it can do maximum damage to prosecutors, the point being to cause maximum chaos and in the process make an example of their own - i.e. be careful who you mess with.

I think the motivation is strong enough that the MSM may be willing to do this even if it inadvertently aids the Bush Admin.

Interesting...

NOOOOO! DON'T TELL ME THAT ALL WE'RE GETTING FOR FITZMAS THIS YEAR IS A SCOOTER AND SIX FEET OF COLIN?! I WANTED A ROVER AND A BIG DICK! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

Note to self...party with Sue.

All this speculation aside, I think the most important thing is that so far the left seems accepting of Fitzgerald's work. Hopefully the wheels of justice keep turning through to the end, the correct people are indicted for the appropriate crimes, and we can all move on.

If they want to get people for perjury, why not nail every fucking DemoRat Senator and congressman. All they have to do is google it!

Here comes Fitzy Claus,
Here comes Fitzy Claus,
Indicting Scooter for outing Plame,
Dubya and Cheney and all the Bushies,
Are gonna go down in flames.

Libs are singing, lefties flinging
Poo on everything in sight,
It'll be sad if no one cares
When Fitzy Claus comes tonight.