Meh. That's one of the reasons I quit reading DC/Marvel stuff long ago: the backstories just got too complex (and too dumb).

That's why I liked The Watchmen so much. It really got into what happened to these superheroes when they got old. Of the "regular" comics heroes, only Batman has had anything like the same treatment in The Dark Knight Returns.

I must confess that I haven't seen a DC title I really liked since the Batman comic A Serious House on Serious Earth. Other than that, the only stuff I've gotten into recently was Garth Ennis' Preacher series.

Well, the complex backstory was actually a simplified backstory. In a lot of cases, they "rebooted" the series, as if, say, Spiderman had just appeared on the scene, so really Spiderman's backstory is now briefer. He appeared like five years ago or something. Only five years of backstory.

The reason FOR that simplification is I guess complicated (and probably contrived) but you don't have to read the big maxiseries that explain that crap. That's for stone-cold geeks. They just put out those series so that they can say, "We answered all these questions in Secret Wars III: The Exposition," or whatever Marvel calls it.

Kingdom Come from DC is a good one. Dark and serious, like Dark Knight Returns.

Did you see this? George Takei is g@y.
Who saw that coming (no pun intended)?
My God, what next?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9845944/

Zorachus:

Yeah, I forgot that one. Is that the one where Magog accidentally sets off a nuclear explosion in Kansas, and Superman knocks up Wonder Woman?

It turned out to be an alt-universe thing, though, didn't it? I hate that -- like saying, "But it was all a dream!" I was hoping that Superman would be bragging to everyone: "See Wonder-whatsherface over there with the bun in the oven? I did that! Oh, yeah, I so got some of that action! Suck on that, you jealous bastards!"

But I guess Superman is too nice a guy for that kind of triumphalism.

Monty,

I'm not sure if it was alt or not. It happened in the "not-too-distant future", so I guess they could handle it however they want.
But yeah, Magog accidentally lights up some nuclear-powered bad guy and destroys the Midwest.
And, more importantly, Superman gets Wonder Woman pregnant. They didn't, you know, show any of that going on, of course. Prudes.

I used to own a comic book store a decade ago... amazing how many (okay, ALL) comic books used the same liberal drivel when it came to setting up a story:

Evil corporation experiments... greedy executives attempt to cover-up... vile corporate assassins track down... super-evil conservative government military testing blah...

DC, Marvel, and especially Image comics, all guilty.

Plus, you would be amazed at how many ADULTS quote comic book economics and politics as if it were God's truth. And I ain't talking 18 year olds. I had some 50+ year old guys spewing COMIC BOOK politics at me.

I got so fed up I got out of the business.

Well, I'm glad it's the 15 year rule now. When Tom DeFalco was Editor-In-Chief at Marvel, he tried to claim a 7 year timespan from FF#1, which is just ludicrous.

At least this way, right now Iron Man's origin can be related to Gulf War I rather than Viet Nam. Though it makes the existance of the Soviet Super Soldiers and a lot of other Cold War villians problematic.

It puts Peter Parker in his late 20s, which works.

Captain America is the easiest to justify, because you just keep lengthening the time he was frozen. Nick Fury's WWII service gets a little harder to explain, though.

But I tell you one thing - we'd have tight continuity and entertaining explanations of all of this if Mark Gruenwald were still alive and running Marvel like he was supposed to.

I shall now return to my parent's basement.

they're comic books, gang! Not supposed to be real, y'know?

Meanwhile, did you know that the publishing industry finally decided to recognize "graphic novels" this year? The first one to win was "1602" a Marvel series over eight issues that moved most of the Marvel Characters to 1602 England. It's really good.
And I was a member of the Merry Marvel Marching Society, so I know what I"m talking about.

There was a really cool "what if" series that DC did a while back (several years) that basically put Batman's persona into a bunch of different time periods: in the Old West as a Gunslinger, in Feudal Japan as a Samurai, and in Europe during the late Middle Ages as something like The Scarlet Pimpernel (only tougher and much meaner). And they did something similar with Superman, where they placed him in Russia instead of the US (Red Son).

The only comic I'm aware of in which the characters have been aging is a daily comic strip, For Better Or For Worse.

Yeah SPIDERMAN has not aged much neither has IRON MAN and the AVENGERS and X-MEN are still as young as they look

Nick Fury's WWII service gets a little harder to explain, though.

Shot up with immortality juice. The Infinity Formula or something like that. The Fu Man Chu version of that one was cooler, though.

Remember, way back when, that Reed Richards and Bengrimm both served in WWII and met Sgt. Nick Fury and his Howlin' Commandos in Europe? This meant that Reed and Ben were at least in their mid-30s when the Big Event happened.

Back then it was more typical for heroes to have some maturity.

We know Peter Parker was a minor when he became Spider-man but how old was Johnny Storm when the BE happened? Since Sue was his legal guardian it was OK for him to go adventuring with her but at what point does CPS come by and put him in foster care after they find out about the various death rays, superhuman fists, and other threats directed toward him? Or does Professor X mess with the authorities heads in exchange for a continuing supply of unstable molecule cloth?

It could be worse. Imagine still trying to pass off the idea that Superman and Clark Kent wouldn't be recognized as the same person within days of Superman's first close-up photo. Or how Bruce Wayne could possibly maintain his public persona and be Batman, just on the basis of time constraints alone.

None of the classics really stands up to any scrutiny. Such was childhood.

Epobirs,
I hear that. I can see Gotham PD now:

"Hmm, this guy has a lot of free time, apparent access to unlimited funds and the kind of high technology only a major corporation/government agency could provide, is driven, capable, and most likely suffered some traumatizing event which makes him a dark, brooding vigilante. Plus, he's about 5'9", maybe 160, and athletic build. Any ideas? C'mon guys, we're the police, for chrissakes."

No f-ing wonder every showboating super-criminal in the world set up shop there.

OT, but I'm sure eight people here will know:

WTF is the status of Scud? Either the title or the movie?

Yeah the FANTASTIC FOUR has not aged a day and the son of REED AND SUE RICHRADS FRANKLIN is still a boy of maybe in his 10 or 12

The thing is, the 15 year rule (or a 7 year rule) never really addressed continuity. It was the ultimate in hackery: it was fill-in-the-balnk robo-hackery.

Tony Stark and Frank Castle, just to pick two, are completely Vietnam products as much as Stebe Rogers is a WWII product. You only get past that by ignoring very significant story arcs in their histories. Making the reader rewrite their pasts is just lazy.

It really isn't enough to say these are just comics. They aspire to more and they can be more. (As much as I disagree with the ranking, I'll offer The Watchmen cracking the top 100 20th Century novels.) It's about the integrity, dammit. They got it good right now. And as long as they got it good, they gotta make it good.

OK. Loose shit on typos. (And the preview pane.) But THEIR checks cash, don't they? Did they all get full value on their money? Marvel cannot be stronger than their weakest link. Do they want their jobs?

Here, let's get it all out in one awful hack and get it done: the Marvel universe sits on the San Adreas faut of the multiverse's timeline (which makes them terribly important for reasons I couldn't care less about). Every 15/7/25 or however many years it takes to see things getting stupid, there is a quake. Then the top dogs become the senior characters. The stories get retold.

This is the integrity kick I'm on. It's just. The fucking. Way it is.

William - Yeah, that's been an unfortunate truth.

I have a feeling (a hope, more like) that it may slowly start to change. I have a hard time picturing today's soft-headed left continuing to hang on to the individualistic superhero who actually fights evil instead of trying to figure out why Doctor Doom hates us.

I think there's some fertile ground for comics with a different world view that could boot the shit out of that old Micah Wright mindset.