Lifeforce! Mathilda May...

"You can't just put up a cross and expect a vampire to cower. 'You gotta have faith for that to work on me.'"

From what I remember of that movie, "faith" just meant clenching your jaw a little tighter.

"Do You Have To Die Before Becoming A Vampire?: No movie seems very consistent on this."

In Bram Stoker's Dracula, unequivocally yes. Lucy just got weaker and weaker, died, was buried, and then vamped out. Mina Harker got weaker and weaker, killed Dracula, and then somehow recovered. I'm referring to the book -- I have no idea how the Keanu Reeves/Gary Oldman/Winona Ryder flick did it.

Here's a rule that totally bothers me: Kill the Head Vampire, and All the Other Vampires De-Vampirize. What the hell? If you've got tainted blood in you, that's not going to change just because someone else gets staked in the heart, or thrown in a bathtub full of holy water.

For the record, I think Lost Boys was the best vampire flick, but I haven't seen many (e.g. the Blade movies).

Sobek,

Yeah, that "kill the head vampire" rule is always in play. You have to kill the head vampire before a "half-vampire" makes his first kill (Lost Boys) or before the next sunrise (Fright Night).

And then that de-vamps everyone.

I think, really, everyone should de-vamp naturally, since you're not REALLY a vampire until you're killed and rise from the dead. The death thing is central.

But they always suspend that for purpose of the save-the-heroine plotting.

The way I heard it, blood was symbolic of the person's soul. What the vampire is actually doing is to drain part -- or all -- of the victim's soul.

Vampires are "undead"; they live, in a sense, but have lost their own souls. But it isn't possible to exist without a soul, so to keep existing they must consume the souls of others, in whole or in part.

The reason they don't cause a reflection in a mirror is that the mirror isn't showing you a reflection of your body. It's showing you a reflection of your soul, and a vampire doesn't have one. (Deep down, you know that mirrors are magical, don't you?)

The reason that vampires recoil from the cross (when powered by belief) is that it forces them to remember that they have no souls of their own, and to remember what they've sacrificed in order to become what they are. (Or so I understood it.)

The question of conversion into a vampire is one of how you lose your soul without outright dying. Most victims of vampires don't manage that properly, and that's why they don't become vampires. (And a good thing, too, or else the number of vampires would grow exponentially.)

By the way, why is it that no vampire movie or book ever talks about the one sure way to kill a vampire: starve it by depriving it of any opportunity to harvest blood? Confine it long enough without "food" and it will die just like anything else will die without food.

You left out another power of vampires: hypnotic control. If they drink the blood of any beautiful young woman, they can mentally control that woman and force her to do their bidding. That's because they already have a piece of the young woman's soul, and thus a direct connection to the young woman.

TV-wise, I liked Forever Knight's take on the vampire phenomenon. Pretty well done, I thought (and still think.)

Dude, I'm sorry you don't like the "assume gaseous form" power but that's right there in the Monster Manual.

Wait a minute. If you want the definitive rules for Vampires can't you just pull the Forgotten Realms D&D expansion books off the shelf and look them up?

Or has the Val-U-Rite taken too much of a toll?

"By the way, why is it that no vampire movie or book ever talks about the one sure way to kill a vampire: starve it by depriving it of any opportunity to harvest blood?"

In Vampyre, the guy only has to feed once a year, so starving him would be tough (but possible). In Dracula, he tries to feed every night, but he gets along fine when he can't. It's implied he could go a very long time (even centuries) without feeding if necessary, probably by staying dormant in his coffin.

I think most vampire stories presume the Dracula-style plot convenience feeding schedule. Beyond that, there is usually some reason the vampire has to be killed fast. Still, there must be at least one story that uses starvation, right? Right? I guess?

"Can't Enter House Without Owner's Permission?: No, that's stupid. Who the hell made this one up?"

Eastern European peasants trying to make themselves feel better about being plagued by the undead?

As far as the D&D vampire goes, my personal favorite version is Tloques Popolocas from C1 "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan". He didn't suck blood, but had to cut the person, drain it into a goblet, and drink it, much like David Bowie did with his little Ankh in "The Hunger." Oh, and the writers of C1 made it ridiculously obvious that the PCs would wake up the vampire if they took his axe, but every freakin' time I've ran that adventure, old Tloques gets woken up. Greed and curiousity can always be relied upon from D&D players, unless they're of the weepy Dragonlance variety.

Book - "Blood Sucking Fiends - A Love Story". Most consistent rules.

Also best way of neutralizing head vampire.

I always liked the invitation rule as an extension of the charm and seduction requirement. Evil can't enter your home (heart) without your letting it. What's the problem with that? Besides, the monster could otherwise just go Barry Allen on your ass, picking you apart at liesure and done with it all in the blink of an eye.

Yeah, Lost Boys was pretty good and I'll give Fright Night another go on your recommendation. For some reason vamp, though, flicks tend to get too campy or just outright, you know, suck. Even From Dusk Till Dawn - no, especially From Dusk Till Dawn. Effin' Blade was better than that. They're better off just going with with lesbian vampires. (I seem to remember Hammer Films doing that in the early 70's. Interesting, interesting, VERY intersting, but then I lost interest.)

The better bits have been on TV: Dark Shadows (hey, I was just a kid, OK?), the Night Stalker movie, Buffy, Angel and the odd miniseries. But Forever Knight seemed to be saying that vamps could be OK, really, if they would just admit they have a problem and follow the other 11 steps.

The best vamps are still in print.

I think Buffy, the Vampire Slayer --- the series, not the movie --- is probably the best contemporary vampire-based visual entertainment value.

Also, Lileks had a pretty good take on Vampires.

I hate vampires. They’re just mosquitoes with backstories. Oh, but they’re so romantic, being damned and all! Feh. Women like the Eastern European accents and brooding looks; if most vampires were pale gangly nerds who spoke in falsettos, “Interview With a Vampire” would be one page long, and consist of two questions: have you ever operated a deep fryer before, and can you start Monday? I can’t stand their annoying superiority – oh, you mere mortal, behold me, who is stronger and will live forever, barring any accidents involving photons or stakes. Superior? Well, if it’s a one-on-one match, I suppose, but have you guys ever accomplished anything besides striking poses in red velvet smoking jackets? You’re the worst sort of European: our most compelling advantage appears to be our ready access to antique furniture, over which we may artlessly sprawl in dank mansions. Hey, Fangboy: Ever invented anything? Tell you what: fifty of us against fifty of you. We’ll bring stuff humans have invented. You bring your teeth. Meet you at high noon at the semi-conductor factory, Euroskeeter. Oh, what’s that? You can’t come out and play in the day because you crisp up like bacon left in the toaster oven? Where should we meet, then? No – let me guess! Midnight! At the graveyard!

I never got the whole vampire thing. At the one end of the spectrum, too Christian. At the other, too narcissistic and faux sexual. I mean, why do we have to have all this sly innuendo when we can have, like, actual sex now?

Having said which, why am I the first person in the thread to bring up Hammer films?! You know, vampires and heaving bosoms? My conception of vampires encompasses many laced bodices and one really gross cinematic disintegration just before the credits roll.

Weasel, I think I was the first. The first to mention lesbians, too. You can be the first to bring up how good Sharon Tate looked in The Fearless Vampire Slayers if you want, though.

Oh. Nevermind.

First rule of Vampires - You do not talk about Vampires.

I prefer the 'vampires as vermin' approach. 'Salem's Lot was a hit with me because the main vamp was incredibly powerful, but also a disgusting, vile looking mess of a man who dressed in finery that only accentuated his inhumanity. He was a mockery of man. Clive Barker's Vampires (the first one, with good ol' James Woods) was also good. Again, the treatment of vampires as supernatural vermin is key. In both 'Salem's lot and Barker's Vampires, the head vamps are super-powerful, and the secondary, or young, vampires are relatively easy to kill, and stupider. In the latter movie, to face a master vampire , and stand your ground, is death. They're abominably powerful and completely devoid of mercy.

The interesting thing is that while both main vamps in those movies are physically repulsive, they still have an incredible power over both men and women. The vamp in Barker's movie gives women an almost orgasmic experience as he turns them, forcing them to enjoy their desecration even though they're terrified. It's like shooting them with heroine while holding a gun to their head. At the end, they accept and become vermin. There's a psychology paper in there somewhere....

Anyway, the most important appeal, for me, is that the vampires MUST be completely devoid of humanity. They're unfathomable, evil monsters wearing a people-mask. The thing lurking below is interacting with you in a form that you can understand and maybe even relate with, but the entire purpose of that form is to lull you into believing that the vampire is just a badass human that thinks and feels n human terms. It doesn't.

The reality is that it's an outsider. It's an invader in God's garden, and it knows more about the order of things than you do. It's alien, and it's trying to kill you and corrupt you all at once.

What it's NOT is a sexually confused moper with a deep love of lace and pretentious poses.

Shadow of the Vampire.

'Nuff said.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

They don't have to file income tax reports, but they are required to submit quarterly financial statements. Report capital gains on the sale of real estate? Same as you and me pal, no breaks there.

When I was a kid nothing creeped me out more than vampires. I'm talkin Hammer Films variety and old black and white movies. Boris Karloff. They we real ans they were coming after me.

Today it's auditors. shiver

One other point... Head vamps aren't former humans, or if they are, it was so long ago that it doesn't matter. They're demons now.

As for the stake to the heart, I remember one person positing that vamps in general are tied to the element of earth. Because of that, living things that grow from the earth are anathema to them, which is why a holly stake can stop their movement, and garlic cloves are repellant to them. The connection to earth also explains why they need to sleep in it.

As for sunlight, the Arabs think that vampires simply can't hold a physical form in sunlight, but manifest again the following night. In the meantime, they're floating around, watching us, and waiting for night to come.

The cross thing works because vampires, whatever their origin, are outsiders in God's domain. Any invocation of the Almighty in their presence, whether a cross or simply a loud prayer, is like turning the attention of the Big Man upon the interloper, and marking the bearer of the cross/prayer as a dedicated agent of God, which the vampire fears above all things. Vampires are outside God's love and protection, and thus avoid encounters with His influence at all costs. They get to break the rules of humanity with all their powers, but if someone invokes the Almighty, they get scared.

They don't have to file income tax reports

Professional courtesy.

I am astonished and offended that no one mentioned Near Dark, which is the best Country/Western themed vampire movie in the history of the world. Plus it has Lance Henrikson and Bill ("We're Doomed!") Paxton, plus the lead vampire chick whose name I can't remember but is absolutely lovely.

Innocent Blood is great too. It's a Vampires vs. The Mafia thing. Robert Loggia, Don Rickles (!!), and Chazz Palminteri -- it's a goombah love-fest. Plus Anne Parillaud, the vampire chick, gets all kinds of naked in this flick -- you even get to see her briars and brambles in one scene, which garners it a special place in my heart.

Plus, you know, you've got a Mafia don (Loggia) who is turned into a vampire. And a Mafia lawyer (Rickles(!!)) who becomes a vampire (and has the best "toasting in the sun" scene in the movie).

Highly recommended.

Either I entirely missed the point of Blade Runner or Rutger Hauer is incredibly stupid. I mean, you're playing the guy and you think he's a robot? He has no feelings? What am I missing here?

Frank Langella's Dracula was a gorgeous film, and the chick died and got dug up, which is creepy as all hell. Chicks like that Dracula because he was a chick's Dracula plus chicks dig Frank Langella. I hear he's an ass man, FWIW.

I can't believe you'd ditch the mirror protocol. It makes for a very scary scene, when the chick turns her back to the vampire in front of a mirror, looks up and realizes the dude's got no reflection. You can practically hear the pee run down her leg, then here comes the bite!

That's awesome.

I disagree with you on several of these, but I'll only comment on a couple...

No Image In Mirror?: No, that's ass.

I've always understood that vampires are demons in human form, and normal people can't see the vamp's reflection because demons don't cast one...BUT vamps can see their OWN reflection, which is why they have a fear of mirrors. It's also a necessary part of the Vampire Test and the only one that can be used on the vamp without him knowing.

Can't Enter House Without Owner's Permission?: No, that's stupid. Who the hell made this one up?

Sorry, I think this is cool. It gives the human a safe haven, hence the vamp has to get clever and either think of a way to be invited or get the humans out of the house. This also goes along the demon lines because vamps aren't supposed to be able to walk on hallowed ground, either.

And I agree that Fright Night is the best, although I don't think much of them as monsters. Out of the "traditional" monsters, werewolves make much better characters, IMO.

Barnabas Collins was chained up in his coffin for about 170 years and didn't starve to death, so I wouldn't think that's too effective. There was some short story, though, where one vampire managed to entomb the other one alive and boasted about how the entombee would suffer the hunger pangs of the damned for eternity. So I guess it at least stings a bit, regardless of efficaciousness at ridding the world of another demonic vermin.

How was it treated in The Hunger with David Bowie and Catherine Deneuve? I've forgotten, but it seems as though the vampire aged until feeding.

Being invited in:

Does this ever stop a vampire?

No, I think it's merely for dramatic irony, like having the vampire say, "I never drink...wine." When the vampire hesitates at the threshold and then smiles knowingly after being invited in, it allows the audience to think, "You fools! Now you've screwed the pooch. If only you knew the first thing about vampires."

Cf. "Let's search the house. You check the attic and I'll look--by myself--in the basement."

Way of in COLLINSPORT there are acuialy two houses the old house where barhabas lived in his coffin and the big house where the family lived

Somebody watched Smallville last night. Ace, I'm looking at you. If you haven't seen Near Dark you should get down to the video store tonight and take a gander.

The "can't enter your house uninvited" thing is kinda lame but it worked well in Lost Boys because of the theme of boys growing up without fathers. The scene where the head vampire makes a formal point of asking the teenager if he can enter and the boy carelessly and snidely answers "whatever" shows the boy's lack of respect for the title of 'Man of the family', in a sense he is abdicating his own masculinity. A very conservative film, BTW.

As regards to the turning into fog/bat/other stuff that could all just be an extension of the 'hypnotic powers', if the vamp couldn't make you do things directly he could probably make you see things that aren't there in order to make himself seem more scary or powerful, in order to scare the crap out of you and make you easier prey.

Apparently another vampire power is to make you write in long run-on sentences that repeat themselves and are run-on sentences.

Zeesh.

Spurwing: Not sure what you're saying, but Barnabas was (at least in the original series) chained in his coffin from about 1790 to about 1966, when would-be grave robber Willie Loomis freed him. Then he moved into the old house and resumed vampiring.

Don't forget the holy water thing. Burns the vampies like a mo fo if you throw it on them. Unless of course if comes from an Episcopalian church. Then it gets them really buzzed.

Salem's Lot sure was frightening.

'No Image In Mirror?: No, that's ass.'

*giving you the bird with both hands*
But I do love you for this post.

Dave, sure Shadow of the Vampire was a great movie. But come on, people - a vampire thread and nobody mentions Nosferatu? And I mean the original with Max Schrek, not Klaus Kinski's idiotic remake.

You're all ignoring the most fundamental vampire rule of all - vampires can't have sex. What's up with that? Just because they are undead, it does not necessarily follow that they can't screw. This really limits the genre, in my view.

I think the No Vampire Sex rule should be revoked so we can get some hot vampire orgy scenes in the next flick.

I love Lost Boys. But for the record Near Dark is the best Vampire Movie. Written by Kathryn Begelow and Eric Red. Directed by Bigelow.

Of note: In 2000, Red drove his suv into a crowded bar killing a couple of people and severely injuring others. The fuck got a way with it, too. How, I do not know. He was never prosecuted. It was not an accident. Big mystery. His career was in hold but now I see that he is back working.

So, Ace, is you go to Hollywood and make it big, try not to get pissed off and kill anyone.

http://tinyurl.com/a64p4

Salem's Lot sure was frightening.

Yeah. I was pretty young when that aired on TV. Sitting there by myself (I think I was out of feet jammies by then), listening to that rocking chair being drug across the floor and then start to squeek. Walk in the room and there's Mike Ryerson (Geoffrey Lewis) slowly rocking with his head down, eyes closed. He stops rocking as if asleep. Then WHAM! opens his eyes and they're all freaky yellow!

Couldn't watch Geoffrey Lewis in anything else from then on w/o thinking about that scene. That is until the monkey classic Every Which Way but Loose. Gotta love Ruth Gordon. Not that she ever played a vampire. "Outsmarted by a god damned ape!"

I'm with Monty... Near Dark was excellent. Shadow of the Vampire was also great, but you kind of need to see Nosferatu to really enjoy it fully. I have to recomment reading Bram Stoker's Dracula, especially if you can find an annotated version. He did tons of research on eastern European beliefs about vampires in the late 1800's and incorporated all the common ones he could find in his story.

As for some of the "vampire rules," the one about sleeping in a coffin probably comes from the myth that vampires had to sleep on the soil of their native land; a coffin is a convenient way to transport that dirt around if you're traveling.

The "no reflection" rule comes from the idea that silver is sovereign against evil since Judas was paid 30 pieces of silver for betraying Jesus. Silver-backed mirrors won't reflect evil, but vampires can still see their relections in water, glass, or any other shiny surface. They also don't show up in photos because of the silver in the film. They'd probably show up in digital photos, though. I don't know what the chips in digital cameras are made of, but if there's no silver, I don't see why not. (This "silver is sovereign against evil" thing is also why silver bullets work against werewolves.)

The stake through the heart thing only immobilizes the vampire for as long as the stake attaches the vampire to the earth. If somebody removes the stake, the vampire is free. And he's pissed.

"I do not drink...wine...and I do not smoke...shit."

Also: "Children of the night! SHUT UP!"

Also: "What was that maniac drinking? Tasted like the Volga River at low tide...."

Yeah, like you didn't like Love at First Bite. Lost Boys was better, though.

My favorite vampire rules are probably those of Fred Saberhagen in his books starting with "The Dracula Tapes." His Dracula is a semi-heroic (but in a very harsh, old-school Europe sort of way) figure, presented in a historical and (sort of - at least more than most versions) science-based way.

That one in particular is a lot of fun, as it's the *true* story of Bram Stoker's "Dracula," where Dracula corrects the lies told by that quack Dr. Van Helsing and promulgated by that villain, Stoker. The fun trick of it is that Saberhagen's version tracks very closely with Stoker's words, but puts a very different interpretive spin on the events.

The trick makes some things a bit difficult to reconcile with a "naturalistic" take on vamipires, and some of the rules still used aren't readily explicable, like the "may not enter dwellings uninvited" and "must sleep in coffin with earth from your homeland" rules that are inherited from Stoker and not easily explained away.

But other rules (or lack thereof) he applies:
- Daylight is not completely deadly to vampires, but they're weak then, and direct sunlight is painful.
- Crosses, holy water, and other religious symbols? Completely irrelevant. Saberhagen's Dracula even points out that he still considers himself to be a Roman Catholic, if perhaps not an especially devout one.
- Garlic is especially unpleasant, mainly because of vampires' heightened senses, but it's just an unpleasant smell, nothing more.
- He takes the sexual element of vampire bites and makes it explicitly, literally, a sex act (the bite is the vampire's form of reproduction.)

It's a pretty neat take, IMO.

vampires can't have sex

According to Anne Rice, the blood lust and act of feeding is sooo much better than sex. It's like herion. Not that I would know.

And I recall a scene in Bram Stoker's where a werewolf was porking hell out of a comely red head. Makes for a happy halloweenie.

Vampires can't have sex? You need to get out more, mister.

This is a myth because Dracula was a Victorian novel and couldn't directly allude to it, but vampires are about the randiest monsters around. Sometimes they do get so excited during foreplay they suffer from premature penetration and bit their victim before they should, but vampire sex is hot, often, and rough.

Well, the "hot" part depends on whether you can overlook the fetid breath of an undead minion from hell whose favorite edible is human blood and can't abide running water.

Well, the "hot" part depends on whether you can overlook the fetid breath of an undead minion from hell whose favorite edible is human blood and can't abide running water.

Sounds like Last Call to me!

For a movie that runs rough shod over the genre, but is a lot of fun, try "Vampire Effect." Vampire hunters use a potion distilled from the blood of vampires that temporarily gives them the strength and speed of a vampire. It's got vampires, it's a Hong Kong action flick, and it even has Jackie Chan.

You're all ignoring the most fundamental vampire rule of all - vampires can't have sex.

Like I said: watch innocent blood. The lady vampire gets her oil changed but good in that one. (Although by Anthony Lapaglia, so you ladies aren't gonna have much eye-candy while the gents are drooling over Anne Parillaud.

I see Monty already beat me to mentioning Near Dark That is without doubt the best redneck vampire movie ever made; a great cast, a creative script, and outstanding cinematography. Possibly the best vampire movie ever, redneck or non-redneck.

I see Monty already beat me to mentioning Near Dark That is without doubt the best redneck vampire movie ever made; a great cast, a creative script, and outstanding cinematography. Possibly the best vampire movie ever, redneck or non-redneck.

But for the fact that the writer's royalties go to the victims and the victims' families, I would trash Near Dark.

did ace ever announce the bad poetry contest winners? did I miss that?

Can't Enter House Without Owner's Permission

Agree, it is dumb. Besides, what happens to guys like me who rent? Does the vampire have to get permission from me, or would a note from my landlord suffice?

From the MMPI: Are a vampires stools "black and tar-like"?

What about that vampire movie with Wilhem DeFoe as the vampire? Quite entertaining.

did ace ever announce the bad poetry contest winners? did I miss that?

No, Dave, you did not. A while back, responding to commenter outrage about the delayed results during his fund-raising drive, Ace put up a lame-ass post claiming he was down to finalists, Monty was sure to win something, and final results would be forthcoming.

No word since. Feel free to join the boycott of his tip jar.

Can't Enter House Without Owner's Permission

I don't know. I always thought vampires as we know them are a giant Victorian metaphor for lust and sin and stuff. So it has to do with the idea that you can't unknowingly sin, but have to invite evil inside.

The only thing I remember from Salem's Lot is the little boy vampire in his night-shirt levitating outside the window, scratching on the glass. Very creepy.

You're not kidding, dude. That one scene scarred my mind for years and I did not watch scarey movies again for about 15 years due to that one scene.

Glad to know I'm not alone. Maybe group therapy?

I can't believe I forgot this one: Darrin McGavin in The Night Stalker. For a TV movie, this was a classic.

s'right, I didn't THINK I missed the poetry contest announcements,

cause I've been clicking refresh on this stupid moronblog like a quadruple-bypass patient in the recovery room mashing the button on his little Morphine Buddy™

I'm sure I would have seen something. You know if there's a category for theft (hell, let's be kind and call it plagiarism), I'm in like Flynn!

I can't believe I forgot this one: Darrin McGavin in The Night Stalker. For a TV movie, this was a classic.

I loved Darrin McGavin. Is the new Night Stalker any good?

Michael: vampires can't have sex.

They can, but it's a really bad idea if they are ensouled and suffering under a gypsy curse. (Sorry. Still stuck on Buffy.)

Editor: As for some of the "vampire rules," the one about sleeping in a coffin probably comes from the myth that vampires had to sleep on the soil of their native land

More likely it comes from the fact that hair and fingernails continue to grow after you are dead. This was known to cause quite a bit of disturbance in the old days when the recently dead would be exhumed.

Good info on the silver. Worth keeping in mind the next time I notice a room temp visitor.

David C: The Saberhagen novels were some of my favorites too. IIRC, he even allowed for the rule about not being able to cross running water, didn't he? I'm guessing that one derives from baptism.

Stoker's novel sucked, though. I hate the epistulary technique for laying out a novel. It was a cheap hack back in the mid-1700's with Richardson's Clarissa and it didn't improve with age.

Mark, what happens to guys like me who rent? Does the vampire have to get permission from me, or would a note from my landlord suffice?

Evil can't corrupt your life until you invite it in. It's one of the better vamp rules. If you live there, you have to do the inviting.

Recoil From Crosses?: Yes. Very cool. But I like Fright Night's take on it. You can't just put up a cross and expect a vampire to cower. "You gotta have faith for that to work on me."

So are, like, Jews SOL when it comes to Vampires?

Ha ha . . . and to think I just watched "The Batman vs. Dracula" on Cartoon Network.

So are, like, Jews SOL when it comes to Vampires?

Haven't you heard? We are vampires.

Haven't you heard? We are vampires.

Yeah, Sue, I've read some nasty rumors about Passover matzoh recipes. Kind of a Goylent Green thing...

I was ready to come in & enlighten y'all that "Near Dark" and "Innocent Blood" were the pinnacle of our vampire filmography, but several people beat me to it. Well played.

No doubt about it, the comments section at AoSHQ is kind of like Howard Hessman's class in that old sitcom. The most brilliant collection of D&D addicts, porn enthusiasts and political junkie shut-ins that the world has ever seen. ;)

So are, like, Jews SOL when it comes to Vampires?

Nope -- they use gefilte fish. Oy, the stink!

The purpose of the vampire is to flip out and sorta kill people.

David C: The Saberhagen novels were some of my favorites too. IIRC, he even allowed for the rule about not being able to cross running water, didn't he? I'm guessing that one derives from baptism.

Sounds plausible. The "running water" bit is one where nobody ever seems to understand exactly what it means. Do you need a river? Or will "running" water of any sort do, like a fire hose or something?

I can't recall what Saberhagen said about it, save that it was addressed somehow.

One of Vlad's quirks in Saberhagen's books is that, somewhat surprisingly, he enjoys modern vehicles and gadgets. And in one book, I remember he had a special "mirror" that evaded the "no reflections" rule. Can't remember the exact details, but I think it was basically a camera display of an image produced without using mirrors. With an image that wasn't reversed like a mirror's. It was in the early '80s or something, so it wouldn't have been a digital camera, or at least not like today's, but I forget what it was.

Just to spread a little heresy, I think that Dracula 2000, by Wes Craven, was an excellent foray into the vampire genre. It had all the elements of classic vampire lore including the 3 daughters of Dracula, and boy were they hot, in addition to a bit of a twist on who Dracula really is. All-in-all it could be described "as a hot roller-coaster of a ride with a couple of hot gypsies thrown in."

I used to get called Evil Ed because I sort of look like the kid that played him in Fright Night. Even better for me, he's the only legit actor to make the jump into gay porn.

Vampire Hunter D & Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust (2000) are awesome anime Vampire movies.

Vampire Hunter D & Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust (2000) are awesome anime Vampire movies.

They are a lot of fun.

David C.: The "running water" bit is one where nobody ever seems to understand exactly what it means. Do you need a river? Or will "running" water of any sort do, like a fire hose or something?

From very early Christian liturgical practice and continuing in some demoninations to this day, baptisms have to be done with flowing water if at all possible. Pouring will do, but it has to be flowing. I believe it has to do with the Aramaic or Hebrew idiom that referred to running water as "living water." Rivers are a gimmie but I've never seen the firehose or lawn sprinkler angle addressed.

People people people! Vampires cannot enter a house because they used to get blessed upon completion. Thus they could not enter unless they were allowed to desecrate the house by the head of the household, thus allowing them to enter again at will unless re-consecrated...

Terry Pratchetts book Carpe Jugulum always struck me as the best satirical take on the vamps. Also a short story from (ye gods I'm a geek) Dragon magazine back in the mid-80's called WearWolf. Did like the Near Dark interpretation, so much so that I gave my copy to a friend and will never see it again.

Anyone but me read Charlaine Harris' Southern Vampire series? Okay, these are kind of girlie - but also redneck.

The idea is that vampires have become a protected class under the Americans With Disabilities Act - they've convinced everyone that vampirism is just an unfortunate allergy to sunlight.

I can't remember all the rules, but they do have a lot of sex, they do have to stay out of the sun, and they do have to have permission to enter a house.

(This is nice for our heroine because it means she doesn't have multiple vampires running into each other at . . . awkward moments, and the vampire girlfriends can't show up and get all in her face in her own house. Our heroine's life is a lot easier than mine was in my dating days.)

Geek/smut alert: At DragonCon this year, one panel got a bit out of hand when the audience got loudly angry that Laurell K. Hamilton's vampire books had turned into nothing but pornography, and the characters were no longer believable. I know at least one guy in the audience near me was saying, "Terrible, terrible. How do you spell that name, again?"

So, you might want to put her on your reading list.

Clive Barker's Vampires was based on the book Vampire$ by John Steakley. The book was approximately 9000 times better than the movie.

Pinky,

Dear lord, I remember "WearWolf." The last line, if I recall correctly, and I usually do, was "Schmuck..."

The first Blade movie didn't completely suck.... It was the casting of Traci Lords as the X-club succubus that pushed it over the top.

Without getting all Talmudic at the moment I'll just say the question is fundamentally more complicated than laying down the rules for, e.g., zombies.

Zombism is sort of binary - you are one or you aren't (though the triage between mere zombie-eaten people and people eaten who then turn into zombies isn't really explained either).

Vampirism has degrees. There are OV, originial vampires, like Dracula (although even they, presumably, were converted by some eldritch predecessor. Haven't had call to use the word eldritch since middle school, and boy does it bring back the memories.)

Then there are secondary vampires - the redheaded bitch in the Coppola Dracula was one of these. They definitely must return to coffin/tomb/whatever - the OVs have much more mobility.

IOW, zombies are like scorpions, but vampires are like ants or bees - they have differentiated status.

From here the delineation can begin.

At DragonCon this year, one panel got a bit out of hand when the audience got loudly angry that Laurell K. Hamilton's vampire books had turned into nothing but pornography, and the characters were no longer believable. I know at least one guy in the audience near me was saying, "Terrible, terrible. How do you spell that name, again?"

Cool, you went to DragonCon? I've always wanted to get to that one.

And guys, I didn't point this out the first time, but the vampire movie with James Woods wasn't made by Clive Barker, it was John Carpenter. Loose $hit.

It wasn't clive barker's vampires, it was John carptenter's.

Cool, you went to DragonCon? I've always wanted to get to that one.

Yeah, we were there because my husband wrote a bunch of, um, vampire novels - none of which have been mentioned on this thread.

Yeah, we were there because my husband wrote a bunch of, um, vampire novels - none of which have been mentioned on this thread.

Well, shoot, now you have to tell us what he's written!

Like I said: watch innocent blood. The lady vampire gets her oil changed but good in that one.

Rule of vamipires stay away from crosses,holy water running water sunlight garlic and drunks

I like The Last Man On Earth (not positive about the title, had Vincent Price, based on the same Matheson book as Omega Man was), and the X-Files episode where the pizza boy was drugging people and drinking their blood. Between them, they try to revive a lot of traditional lore that American movies usually neglect, like vampires having OCD and being killed by iron. Iron kills anything magical, they say it even killed Sitting Bull. I think that in days of yore, a lot of people with OCD probably were considered vampires, and this could be where a lot of their weird aversions come from about crossing thresholds and whatnot. Nice creepy detail in Lovecraft stories, crosses will repel some stuff, but only because of inherent geomantic properties of right angles, kind of implies that even our beliefs that work don't really mean God is looking after us.

I think the whole undead angle has been underplayed lately in favor of making vampires all sexy like. Hollywood has been so blonde-centric for so long, vampires and spies are pretty much the only really hot Eastern European looking brunettes you get to see in movies, I think that's really how it got so sexualized. Lately, all monsterous metamorphoses seem to be presumed do to virus like infection, a lot of this stuff makes more sense in magical terms.

Spongeworthy: Replicants are androids only in the archaic sense, they're in the "form of a man". In the movie, they're genetically modified clones, so they basically are just humans with cool powers. But the Nexus series was made with a four year life span, so they don't have time to develop their level of emotional maturity past that. Presumably, they have basic infantile emotions like "give me what I want our I'll sqeeze your head hard".

bbeck,

Sorry it took so long to answer you. I had to find out whether my husband was a covert CIA operative.

'Cause then if I told you, I'd have to change my name to Scooter, and that would stink.

My dh wrote a few of the Vampire: The Masquerade novels, but it won't let me link to his website: eg.home(dot)comcast.net

Spongeworthy, Vampires cannot enter a house because they used to get blessed upon completion.

Good stuff to file away. But I'm pretty much believe that when a superstition or myth connects centuries later in a different way, the new connection is where the meaning is now found. Running water is an esoteric point that few even bother with. It's meaning is in history. The value of the invitation rule today seems more allegorical than historical. Then again, maybe the two interpretations aren't that far apart.

hi i got a ? do u know anyone who got bitten by a vampire or one of ur friends.

hi i got a ? do u know anyone who got bitten by a vampire or one of ur friends.

Ace has bitten us all.

John Carpenter's 'Vampires' starring James Wood is one of my favourites. James Wood is hilarious jumping on the vamps and yellig, "DIe, Die Die!" while franticly and repeatedly stabbing them with stakes.

One of Wood's best performances as he also calls the head vampire, who is clothed in black medieval costume a, "pole smoking fashion refugee!"

Ace has never bitten me. But, he has given me hickies on more than one occasion.

Have you seen the movie LOVE AT FIRST BITE? with GEORGE HAMILTON? he bites a old wino and ends up with a hang over then i saw a funny cartoon in a book i which a vampire bite a drunk and staggers away drunk himself they even showed certian persons with vampire fangs including VENUS DEMILO and DONALD DUCK DAISEY DUCK BECARFUL

"It's a black chicken. Get it!" I think that's the only George Hamilton movie I have ever watched.

After 93 comments, this is probably too late, but I don't think anyone has mentioned that fire kills vampires--at least according to Anne Rice.

Happy Halloween!

I can't believe that nobody's mentioned the fairly recent UK miniseries called Ultraviolet (sci-fi has showed it here a few times).

It was based around a Brit anti-vampire unit, equipped with pistols with video cameras (Code 5s (V) don't show up on them) and carbon-tipped bullets.

It used some vampire rules, and ignored others. All in all, I thought it was very well done.

"Really, the only good vampire movies I can think of off the top of my head are Lost Boys and Fright Night"

BAH! Johnnie-Come-Latelies. The best vampire movie is STILL the FIRST vampire movie... ladies and gentlemen, have NONE of you seen NOSFERATU ?!?!

Now THERE'S a vampire.

While I disagree vehemently with the people who believe that Vampire Hunter D is good anime in any way, shape or form, its cool that some anime got mentioned.

I'll push the anime series HELLSING here... continues the "vampire as vermin" concept by adding in artificially-created vampires... that are hunted by the Church of England's special "Hellsing" branch, led by the daughter of Van Helsing, whose chief operative is...

...ah, but that would be telling.

-vampires- arn`t real for that matter and if any are out there "come out, come out where ever you are" and prove it if u can, do some thing...