Intermarkets' Privacy Policy
Support


Donate to Ace of Spades HQ!


Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
CBD:
cbd at cutjibnewsletter.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com


Recent Entries
Absent Friends
Jon Ekdahl 2026
Jay Guevara 2025
Jim Sunk New Dawn 2025
Jewells45 2025
Bandersnatch 2024
GnuBreed 2024
Captain Hate 2023
moon_over_vermont 2023
westminsterdogshow 2023
Ann Wilson(Empire1) 2022
Dave In Texas 2022
Jesse in D.C. 2022
OregonMuse 2022
redc1c4 2021
Tami 2021
Chavez the Hugo 2020
Ibguy 2020
Rickl 2019
Joffen 2014
AoSHQ Writers Group
A site for members of the Horde to post their stories seeking beta readers, editing help, brainstorming, and story ideas. Also to share links to potential publishing outlets, writing help sites, and videos posting tips to get published. Contact OrangeEnt for info:
maildrop62 at proton dot me
Cutting The Cord And Email Security
Moron Meet-Ups

Texas MoMe 2026: 10/16/2026-10/17/2026 Corsicana,TX
Contact Ben Had for info





















« If you missed the show... | Main | How about a little perspective folks? »
October 25, 2005

Today’s Plame Gate Round Up - Updated

Most of today's internet energy has been expended hypothesizin over the Times story Ace linked to last night. And if you're just getting up to date, in short, it stated that Libby’s own notes, possessed by the prosecution, reflect Libby first learned ‘Wilsons-wife’s-in-CIA’ from the Veep himself.

So what, you wonder?

Well, the WaPo, today, tries to spell it out for you. Beside just theorizing that this may mean bad news for Cheney, they seem more certain this means charges for Libby. Why?

Libby is said to have initially told the grand jury he first heard about Plame from reporters -- but they denied it. And now, says the Times, Libby's own notes show he heard it from Cheney.

In short, there’s your perjury, buddy. Case closed. (“Where would you prefer we serve the indictment, Mr. Libby? Home or office?”)

“Hold on!” says Tom Maguire (Get out of his way. I’m warning you. The man is just steamrolling the rest of the net on this case.) In a piece today he reviews this “Libby’s Notes” angle, and reminds everyone Fitzgerald’s had these notes for over a year and, more importantly, Libby and his people have, in all likelihood, known this all along:

First, the NY Times reported in Feb 2004 that Fitzgerald's investigation was relying on Libby's "copious notes" which were delivered (we guessed) in response to a Sept 2003 document request when this Plame leak investigation started.

Now, the high priced legal talent is paid to review everything submitted to the prosecutor. What are the odds they overlooked this morsel that Cheney told Libby about Wilson's wife?

Not likely. AND, with this in mind - i.e. with Libby knowing his notes implicate Cheney as his source -Tom wonders why should we think Libby testified contrary?

Good question. Sure, Libby or his lawyers may leak to the media that he testified “Reporters told me.” But that doesn’t necessarily mean he actually told the Grand Jury that.

Remember, the only people who could inform otherwise, the prosecutors and Grand Jurors, are the very ones bound by law to secrecy – unlike Libby. (And anyone sourced a leak to coming from them yet?)

So, why the ‘one-story-to-GJ, another-to-media’ double entry bookkeeping?


Cause it would be a way to keep Cheney’s name out of the mess until the very end, when indictments come or a report was issued (were that a possibility).

Deferment makes sense politically. Cheney’s name would have bumped this story for the past year from A-17 to A-1 (maybe below the fold, maybe above). Every. Single. Day.

Far fetched? No, this fetch may be quite near:

[Libby’s] actual testimony may only be a bit different from the staged leaks. For example, perhaps Libby testified that he only talked with reporters about Wilson's wife after hearing about it from other reporters, and in leaks to the press that conveniently morphed into "Libby only knew about it after talking with reporters". Blame the media, shield Cheney, disclose the near-truth - a trifecta!

Is he right? Could be. Don’t know. (And don’t get pissy with me bout my hedging. I don’t know, You don’t know. No one know. But this is internet, baby! Speculation’s what makes life interesting.)

Other stories?

More at the WaPo: Milbank and Pincus reacquaint readers with Smooth Joe Wilson and his veracity issues: “Possessed of a flamboyant style and a love for the camera lens...”

But the big one? Those guys at ‘Raw Story’ seem pretty certain there are going to be indictments, at least two, and that they’ll be obstruction related, not some underlying secrecy law violation. They write:

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has decided to seek indictments in the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson and has submitted at least one to the grand jury, those close to the investigation tell RAW STORY.

Fitzgerald will seek at least two indictments, the sources say. They note that it remains to be seen whether the grand jury will approve the charges.

Those familiar with the case state that Fitzgerald may not seek indictments that assert officials leaked Plame's name illegally. Rather, they say that he will focus charges in the arena of lying to investigators. The sources said, however, they wouldn't rule out charges of conspiracy.


They sound pretty certain of themselves, with their 'Those close to the investigation' sourcing. But right now, with so much unknown, and speculation rampant, tone counts for a lot. Anyone with a self confident timber can bluff for the pot, at least for a news cycle.

As for when these indictments will issue?

Michael Barone predicts: “Well, I don't believe there should be indictments this week, so I'll go out on a limb and I will predict there will not be indictments this week.” (link via Insty)

Barone also cautions on Grand Jury leaks in general, reminding they most likely come from the witnesses and their attorneys, and what that means.

He’s right to do so. Everything that we know comes from individuals, lawyers and testifying witnesses, all with particular agendas, NONE of whom possess an overhead view of the whole. Because of this, we probably can’t speak intelligently as to ‘what’s really going on.’

It’s sort of like that old saw, that the leakers are like the old, blind men each feeling a different part of the elephant, shouting out confident but mistaken claims as to what they’re really grasping. “Why it’s a spear!” the man holding the tusk exclaims. “No, it’s a snake!” The man clutching the trunk replies… (also add in that the blind men may have agendas of thier own. Get's crazy, no?)

The point is, we’re relying on fragmented sources each describing their little shard. It’s hard to say what the bigger picture really is. After all, a few weeks ago we’d assumed we were in the mopping up loose details stages. Now we don't thinks so. No, this last flurry is the dark, dirty heart of the matter somehow. Fitzgerald’s having Libby back before the GJ and all the recent events just seem more important to us because they are all happening NOW, late third act, right before the grand finale.

We shall know when we know. Not before.

The 'Hit Post 5 Minutes Too Soon' UPDATE:

Drudge reports ABC saying:

"We have double sourced that the vice president's chief of staff has been indicted," a reporter for ABCNEWS claimed to White House communications director Nicolle Wallace this afternoon... MORE... "

Will update with links/details when more revealed.

Update 2.0 ABC tries to bluff White House? Drudge now says:

ABCNEWS TELLS WHITE HOUSE OF 'INDICTMENT' Tue Oct 25 2005 19:08:02 ET

"We have double sourced that the vice president's chief of staff has been indicted," a reporter for ABCNEWS claimed to a White House press spokesman this afternoon.

The White House refused to comment on the claim. The network said they didn't need comment, they were preparing to run with the development on this evening's network news broadcast, sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

ABCNEWS claimed to the White House that it had double sourced how an indictment against vice presidential chief of staff I. Lewis Libby was set.

A senior White House source quickly determined ABC was bluffing; the report did not run on the East coast feed of the program.

Developing...

What?

Now: Drudge has now gone up with DC Fever pitch pic-montage that doesn't link to his earlier story.

If Drudge's earlier bit is right, ABC singlehandedly turned a 'WH out of control' story into a 'press out of control' story.

I'll follow it, see what turns up, but I can't keep chasing Drudge back and forth. Once some settled news comes out on this, I'll probably give it a separate post.

Final Update: Raw Story:

Jeffrey Schneider, Vice President of Communications for ABC News, denied a claim from the conservative Drudge Report that any reporter had called the White House to say that Dick Cheney's chief of staff "Scooter" Libby had been indicted, RAW STORY can report.

"Absolutely not true," Schneider said from his cell phone Tuesday evening.

"We have no such reporting," he added.

Okay. No more updates. (Partial H/T to 'VRWC Agent' on last one)

posted by Dr. Reo Symes at 06:20 PM
Comments



"It must be See-Dubya!" shouted the third blind man, from underneath the elephant.

Posted by: See-Dub on October 25, 2005 06:35 PM

So when is Fitzgerald gonna announce the results?

Posted by: geoff on October 25, 2005 06:42 PM

Suppossedly by the end of the Grand Jury term, which is the end of the week. If he releases anything.

I wonder if he'll go after Judy Miller.

Posted by: Iblis on October 25, 2005 06:52 PM

"We have double sourced that the vice president's chief of staff has been indicted," a reporter for ABCNEWS claimed to White House communications director Nicolle Wallace this afternoon... MORE... "

Drudge says now, "A senior White House source quickly determined ABC was bluffing; the report did not run on the East coast feed of the program. "

Posted by: VRWC Agent on October 25, 2005 07:20 PM

Was this an act of desperation by ABC?

Posted by: Dogstar on October 25, 2005 07:25 PM

Dogstar, I'm not sure it was desperation but it was ABC deliberately trying to make the news. I thought the job of a news organization was to report the news, but I guess I've had it all wrong.

What scumbags...

Posted by: EricTheRed21 on October 25, 2005 07:40 PM

shouted the third blind man?

apochrypha no doubt.

Posted by: Dave in Texas on October 25, 2005 07:59 PM

All this conjecture is boring the living crap outta me.
I want something REAL to respond to, good or bad.

This all just feels like a sewing circle, and one that was crashed by a few especially mean little biddies.

Posted by: lauraw on October 25, 2005 08:05 PM

With you, laura. Even an indictment is more about what people do about the appearance of possible substance than substance in fact. It's the media house of mirrors. Gives me a headache.

Posted by: VRWC Agent on October 25, 2005 08:11 PM

I've gone out on a limb and predicted no indictments, not this week, not any week.

As for Libby being implicated by this memo, remember that Libby reportedly wanted Miller to testify... and since Libby is a smart guy, presumably not to contradict his testimony, but to support it... so I doubt that today's memo story will factor into Fitzgerald doing anything...

One way or the other, I guess we'll know within a day or two.

Posted by: steve sturm on October 25, 2005 08:50 PM

THIS JUST IN: ABC denies own leak

ABC NEWS spokesman Jeff Schneider tells the DRUDGE REPORT: "There is nothing at all true about us having double sourced anything" regarding indictments.

Really, a non-denial denial when you think about it since the WH already called that bluff. Someone needs to get to the bottom of this!! Empanel a grand jury!!!

*yawn*

Posted by: VRWC Agent on October 25, 2005 08:59 PM

Still Drudge, of course.

Posted by: VRWC Agent on October 25, 2005 09:00 PM

So, does this mean that the grand jury already voted? Any criminal lawyers know if the votes are public, or when they occur?

It seems that an important point was raised/missed recently. The spec. pros. can go ahead and present to a grand jury, but the grand jury itself has to hand down the indictment. The Spec. Pros, therefore, can't do anything until the GJ votes. I doubt Fitz will be able to pull an Earle and have several GJ's vote until they get an indictment.

Maybe a GJ juror is leaking? Or this is all pure speculation.

Posted by: joeindc44 on October 25, 2005 10:02 PM

Joe: I think the way it works is that the prosecutor walks into a room with a 'suggested' indictment. He leaves. They vote secretly. Yes/no on suggested indictment. (They can add charges/defendants, but it is very rare) When done, they signal for him to return then give him an indictment or not.

In state courts, it's still secret at that point and remains so, I believe, until the defendant's have been properly served. Not sure if fed's are different.

Posted by: on October 25, 2005 10:07 PM

*I* am going out on a limb.... Joe Wilson gets indicted.
Wouldn't that be magnificant? Hehe.

Do you think Al Franken would execute himself if that happened?

Posted by: Dave S on October 25, 2005 10:49 PM

I wonder if there is a list of people who testified? Then we could see who is on the potential perjury list.

Posted by: joeindc44 on October 25, 2005 11:50 PM

What's really annoying about this is that even though we all recognize perjury and obstruction are serious business, if the facts are at all as presented in the media, Libby will take the fall for some pretty petty stuff.

It's not like he's Gannon or anything--we all know what that cost us. Have we yet recovered?--but even those lefties who fantasized about Rove frogmarching and Cheney in the dock are going to crow and crow about Scooter and his transgressions.

That puts us in the unenviable position of either defending him or letting him swing. Since it's not like he's Gannon, my suggestion would be " throw the book at the lying little suckup" and focus on what didn't come of the investigation.

Since I'm not Scooter or his family, it's quite painless for me to get to remind folks that Wilson's still a liar and you can't revise history to claim Bush and Miller invented WMD's in Iraq.

See ya, Scooter!

Posted by: spongeworthy on October 26, 2005 08:56 AM

http://www.1starmy.com/uploadimages/Product_2360.jpg

Posted by: X on October 26, 2005 01:04 PM

Oh no, Fitzmas isn't coming this year! And all these empty indictment envelopes hung by the chimney with care! Visions of frogmarches dancing in their heads! Whatever shall Cindy Loon Lefty and the rest of the Lefties down in Leftville do now?

Posted by: Sue Dohnim on October 26, 2005 03:40 PM

Sue,

This whole thing is all upside for me. If Libby committed perjury, then no skin off my nose. The law is the law and I'll be glad to see him prosecuted.

If, on the other hand, no indictments are returned, well then I'll get to see all those Kos kids cry into their bongs. It'll be like Christmas come early!

Posted by: The Warden on October 26, 2005 03:45 PM

That cocksucker Wilson is crying crocodile tears for our Republic now. Contrast this bullshit:

[F]ormer U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson said it was "a sad day for our country."



Wilson said Wednesday he took little comfort that the men he believes have engaged in a campaign of character assassination against him for the past two years -- Karl Rove, President Bush's deputy chief of staff, and Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the vice president's chief of staff -- may soon be facing charges and possible jail time.



[...]



Wilson said he was withholding judgment regarding the claims about Cheney. "I don't know what to think of that, except to say it saddens me deeply. I get no satisfaction from that."

This shit from the same man who said:

It's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frogmarched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words.

What a pathetic disingenuous liar.

Posted by: Sue Dohnim on October 27, 2005 09:50 AM

The guy isn't even a good liar.

Posted by: Edward R. Murrow on October 27, 2005 09:55 AM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?








Now Available!
The Deplorable Gourmet
A Horde-sourced Cookbook
[All profits go to charity]
Top Headlines
Leftists who have been drawing Frankendistricts for decades are suddenly upset about Republican line-drawing
Socialist usurper Obama cut commercials urging Virginians to vote for the bizarre "lobster" gerrymander -- but now says gerrymanders are so racist you guys
Obama is complaining about the new Louisiana map -- but here's the thing, the new map has much more compact and rational borders than the old racial gerrymander map
Pete Bootyjudge is whining too. But here's the Illinois gerrymander he supports.
Big Bonus! Under the new Florida congressional map, Debbie Wasserman Schultz will probably lose her seat
And she can't even go on The View because she's ugly a clump of stranger's hair in the bath-drain
CJN podcast 1400 copy.jpg
Podcast: CBD and Sefton Charge the Democrats with fomenting violence against the nation with their rhetoric, Virginia redistricting going down the tubes? Trump's bully pulpit is not censorship, Lee Zeldin is a star, J.B. Pritzker is an idiot, and more!
ANOTHER LEFT WING ASSASSIN ATTEMPTS TO KILL TRUMP
If I understand this, the left-wing Democrat assassin attempted to get into the White House Correspondents Association dinner, and was stopped at the magnetometers, which detected his gun. I guess he pulled out the gun and was shot by Secret Service agents.
Erika Kirk was present.
Forgotten 70s Mystery Click
You made me cry
when you said good-bye

70s, not 50s
Now that is a motherflipping intro
CJN podcast 1400 copy.jpg
Podcast: Sefton and CBD wonder about the Chaos that Trump is creating in the minds of the Iranian junta, Virginia redistricting is pure power grab, Ilhan Omar is many things ...and stupid too! Amazon censoring conservative thought again, and the UK...put a fork in it!
NYT Melts Down Over Texas Rangers Statue Outside... Texas Rangers' Stadium
"The Athletic posted a lengthy article about a statue outside Globe Life Field, presenting a virtue-signaling moral grievance as unbiased news coverage." [CBD]
Important Message from Recent Convert to Christianity and Yet Super-Serious Christian Tuq'r Qarlson: Actually Muslims love Jesus, it's Trump and his neocons who hate him
Tucker Carlson Network
@TCNetwork

The people in charge [Jews, of course -- ace] don't want you to know this, but Muslims love Jesus.

Islam reveres Him as a major prophet and messenger of the Lord, believes He performed miracles, and states that He will return to Earth to defeat the Antichrist. That's why Donald Trump's painting depicting himself as the Son of God offended the president of Iran. It was an attack on his religion as well as Christianity.

Trump's trolling tweet was ill-advised, but Tucker is just lying when he claims the Christianity-hating President of Iran was "offended" by this.
He's one step away from announcing his official conversion to Islam. He literally never stops praising Islam. Well, he suddenly became Christian two years ago, there's not much stopping him from converting again.
You can track Tuq'r's official conversion to Islam with this Bingo card.
CJN podcast 1400 copy.jpg
Podcast: CBD and Sefton talk Orban losing, but is it the end of Hungary? The Irish start a brawl, but is it enough, Pope Leo wades into politics, Trump calls Iran's bluff and blockades Hormuz, Artemis II! Swallwell is scum, and more!
People say that the bearded man in the video of Fartwell molesting a hooker looks like Democrat Arizona Senator Rueben Gallego, said to be Swalwell's "best friend" and known to take vacations with him.
@KFILE 21m

Politico is reporting that multiple people have abruptly resigned from Eric Swalwell's gubernatorial campaign: "Members of senior leadership have departed the campaign, including Courtni Pugh, a strategic adviser who served as Swalwell's top liaison to organized labor groups."

So the campaign is collapsing due to the truth of the sexual harassment allegations.
That hissing sound you hear is the air going out of the Swalwell campaign. UPDATE: No it wasn't, it was just Swalwell one-cheek-sneaking out a fart on camera
Eric Swalwell more like Eric Farewell amirite
thanks to weft-cut loop.
This is the dumbest AI bullslop I've seen in a while: the CIA can use "quantum magnetometry" to track an individual man's heartbeat from twelve miles away
I wouldn't click on it, it's not interesting, it's just stupid clickslop. I just want to share my annoyance with you.
Recent Comments
Aliss: "there are 7. 240,000 registered voters in NC sh ..."

MJ: "The video doesn't matter. They just find another t ..."

Washington Nearsider: Gotterdammerung: "Nood USSS video. ..."

TJ jackson: "They aren't dead. They are federal employees. ..."

Stateless : "I wonder if the new 'Teacher of the Month' awards ..."

TheJamesMadison, discovering British horror with Hammer Films: ""Cole once posted a meme making fun of a Democrat. ..."

Washington Nearsider: Gotterdammerung: "I cannot tell the difference from any democrat tod ..."

Harry Vandenburg: "Goebbels was also a Marxist before becoming a Nazi ..."

Formerly Virginian[/i] [/b]: "Won't matter. People like Jake Tapper will never f ..."

WisRich: "266 Shapiro should be the OBVIOUS choice for Dems ..."

Axeman: "Hitler left disappointed as again he was a fan. Th ..."

Racially Ambiguous Honky: "[i]Italicans[/i] ..."

Bloggers in Arms
Some Humorous Asides
Archives