My question would be that if fish are using tools, what would they be using them for? Maybe to catch and eat other fish?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M NOT HELPING?!?

Oh, one other thing:

Don't kid yourself, PETA. If that fish ever got the chance, it'd kill you and everyone you care about.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Ace!

I blogged this very topic back in April. It's funny stuff.

Something about this campaign makes me want to go out and kill small indefensible animals just to spite them. Hell I think I'll just run out in front of my house and stamp on all those friggin slugs eating my expensive porch plants. Ammerikkka Fuck Ya!

Kaos

You know, it's sad, but I guess it is important that these kids learn, at an early age, that PETA is a pack of vicious monsters. What better way for them to find out than when they ask daddy about his fishing trips and hopefully end up going along for the next one to join in the FISH KILLING fun?

How the hell do they pass these things out, anyway?

The defect is self-loathing directed at others. It's like a double defect. A real nasty one too!

From what I've seen and experienced, the whole point of being a liberal is petulant, adolescent immaturity.

I'm a life member of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals). Maybe I can adapt to eating human flesh if it comes from one of the otherclass of PETA members. Na, too much of a chance it'll make you as stupid as they are.

"...Many people have never stopped to think about it, but fish are smart, interesting
animals with their own unique personalities, just like the dogs and cats we share
our homes with..."
http://www.fishinghurts.com/

Sir,

The above is from PETA's "Fishing Hurts" website. It is seems to be geared
toward the adolescent activist/troublemaker. It has all kinds of fun facts about
fish toxicity and lobsters having an inherent fear of boiling water, bibs and melted
butter. Seems like a great resource for precocious kids to get facts to harangue
their parents and to produce anti-Rovian tracts for their Bush Administration Environmental
Holocaust class.

It has a link to a site called "PETAkids", which is oriented towards to
pre-pubescent activist/troublemaker. This second site has some real gems. Their
screeds are in quotes. My nuanced responses follow.

http://www.petakids.com/fish-corner.html

"Fishing is no fun for fish!"
Uh... okay.

"Write a story from the perspective of a fish. Tell how things look from the
fish's point of view. What things are important to the fish? What is he or she thinking?"
What is important to fishes? Other than advanced calculus, rotisserie baseball and
ballroom dancing, the only things that come to mind are eating (ironically, other
fishes) and reproduction. What is the fish thinking? "Eat (ironically, other
fishes), spawn, die". This turned out to be one of life's easier homework assignments.

"If your school fair has contests that give free goldfish as prizes, organize
a group of students to complain to the principal. Explain that a frightened, lonely
goldfish is no prize, and suggest stuffed animal toys or other non-animal prizes
instead."
I remember once reading that goldfish are so stupid that they make one lap around
the bowl and then they are in virgin territory for the next lap. My goldfish never
displayed a great intellect, then he ate himself to death when my kid brother fed
him half a bottle of fish food on Thanksgiving.

"Don't buy tropical fish! Fish belong in open waters, and they are frustrated
and unhappy when kept in tanks."
Frustrated? Unhappy? Evidentally they are capable of the same level of racionation
which engendered frustration and unhappiness in me over the Miers nomination. I
find this strangely disturbing (maybe that's the "strangeness" that Al
Gore was talking about when he went off his meds the other day).

"Send PETA your old unwanted fishing gear for use in educational displays and
anti-fishing demonstrations"
Now this is downright subversive. You know they want you (if you are an impressionable
kid who is horrified by your species pogram of the fish race) to go to the garage
while your dad isn't home and mail all his tackle to PETA. I cannot even begin to
fanthom the beating I would have received had I attempted this. Fish feel pain?
That would be nothing compared to the pain I would feel when Pops realized that
I gave away several hundred dollars worth of rods and reels to anti-fishing activists.

"If your town is holding a fishing tournament or other fishing event, hold
a demonstration, it's easy, and it only takes a few people. Make some signs with
slogans like "Hooks Hurt" and "Fishing Is No Fun for Fish" and
stand outside the event. Pass out leaflets (order them from PETA) and tell people
the fish's side of the story."
The fish's side of the story? "Lake Donne is a large body of water, 12 square
mile of teeming marine biodiversity, where fish are allowed to roam free and chase
their dreams. But there is a dark underside to this idyllic setting. Creatures here
live by simple creeds, such as "the big ones eat the little ones" and
"only the strong survive". Harsh realities in the food chain. It was a
hazy August day. Me and my partner got a report of smaller fish schooling over at
the submerged tree. We decided to check it out. On the way over, I noticed movement
to my flank. I saw something shiny. It was moving erratically, a sure sign of weakness,
fraility, vulnerability. It was slightly smaller than my head. I decided to eat
it. I'm a fish. This is my story". Cue Dragnet theme. How about the human's
side of this story? Asshole protesters aren't born. They are indoctrinated and formed.

"Some fish hide their babies in their mouths. At the first sign of danger,
they'll open their mouths and let their babies swim inside!"
Most fish eat their babies, because fish are cannibalistic, voracious killers and
don't have a real strong sense of paternity. In general, fish are pretty much just
fish-eating machines.

"Fish use their mouths for many things that people do with their hands: collecting
food, building homes, and taking care of their babies."
...and the number one thing that fishes do with their mouths? Eat other fishes.

"Fish have very sharp vision. They can also smell, touch, feel, and taste,
just like us. Plus, they can sense light, chemicals, vibrations, and electricity."
...senses which have evolved in fishes as they are extremely predatorial and these
traits help them capture, kill and consume other fishes.

I seem to see some common threads emerging here. Fish on fish violence. Cannibalism.
Infaticide. Unsatiable hunger. Fish are cruel, efficient predators with few moral
values and no sense of humor when it comes to what they do best: eat other fishes.

PETA was attempting to make me feel sorry for fish. It didn't work. The more I think
about it, the scarier they are. It also had another effect. All this talk of eating
gets me thinking that I'm hungry. I might have to run down to Red Lobster.

Courage.

rcl

I really think that they should set up an adopt-a-fish program. It would get us in touch with our scaly friends, and also allow for children to see first hand just how cute and cuddly fish are, and why we should NOT massacre the lot of them.

I would be first in line. Starting with a nice Alaskan Salmon, a couple of nice trout, maybe some big ol' cute tuna.

In fact, I'll up the ante. Give me the fish eggs. I'll care for them from day one.

Mmmmm. Fish eggs.

Fish.

Using tools.

"Tools" is the correct word to use here only not in the context that PETA thinks.

...and with no fish doctors around to take care of them, many slowly die!

What happened to those genius fish using tools? What are they using those tools for if not to help the other helpless fish? Perhaps PETA ought to spend some time trying to teach fish how to help each other. I am looking forward to the next comic in the series, "Why that lobster makes squealing sounds when your evil Mommy drops him in the boiling water"...

Luckily the folks at PETA are so damn nuts that they have been remarkably effective at marginalizing themselves.

I believe it was Nietzsche who offered insight into the minds of such people when he argued that this supposed concern for the welfare of animals was nothing more than sublimated hatred for human beings.

me: dad, can we go fishing today?

dad: ok, but go put on a tie.

Thanks to Alicia.

Who is this Alicia and why are blaming her for peta's actions?

When I hear about fish using tools, the first thing it makes me think is, "FISH ARE THREATENING MY POSITION IN THE FOOD CHAIN!!"

It makes me think we need tighter fish-controls, to ensure that the fishy bastards don't self-organize and mount a massive anti-human campaign.

It makes me think of a large-scale war (no pun intended), kind of like Starship Troopers, only with fish.

Something tells me that's not what their PR campaign was designed to accomplish.

Quote lifted from People for the Ethical Treatment of Carnivores website:

"Some animal rights groups say that fishing is cruel."

Keep in mind some of these same people say that Linda McCartney was more than marginally talented.

Some activists say that fishing is cruel because fish can feel pain in a similar way to human beings. However, please remember that fish only have sequential, real-time memory of about ten or twelve seconds. A fish’s brain is, after all, the size of a sperm sample.

Because of this short memory, a fish would be traumatized by biting into a barbed hook… for about twelve seconds. After that, it would go back to its fish buddies and say, "Hey guys, if you see a worm just floating in the water, just be careful, because… hey! Free worm! I got dibs!" Nobody’s forcing the fish to eat the hook, okay? Any animal not introspective enough to question why an earthworm is floating in the middle of a lake deserves to be puréed into scrod.

PETA is basically a scam. They proved it when they were caught brutally killing those kittens and puppies they were supposedly taking to a "no kill" shelter.

Basically, they extort money from corporations and rich, dumb liberals. All the real work gets done by dumb liberal volunteers. Then, their leaders get to fly around all over the world, attend lavish conferences, engage in street theater, and get interviewed on TV while drawing a generous salary. It beats real work, I guess.

I'm not too worried about it. My own kids (one of whom has his own blog, FYI) ridicule vegans, and even kid's programming like Nick's Drake and Josh have protrayed animal rights whackos as whackos.

I think most of the PETA jerks, when they get old, will probably be living alone in dilapidated houses or trailers with 87 ill-nourished cats.

me: dad, can we go fishing today?
dad: ok, but go put on a tie.

Posted by: Dave in Texas

Laughing.

PETA hurts the cause by being so loony. It makes normal animal lovers look ridiculous when we get upset about French fishhooks through puppy snouts.

me: dad, can we go fishing today?
dad: ok, but go put on a tie.

Posted by: Dave in Texas

Laughing.

PETA hurts the cause by being so loony. It makes normal animal lovers look ridiculous when we get upset about French fishhooks through puppy snouts.

Sorry about the post with no name.

People who fly fish know that the fish's memory lasts only two minutes.

If you catch a fish and throw it back as most fly fishermen do, you can wait two minutes and catch the same fish again.

Basically, they extort money from corporations and rich, dumb liberals. All the real work gets done by dumb liberal volunteers. Then, their leaders get to fly around all over the world, attend lavish conferences, engage in street theater, and get interviewed on TV while drawing a generous salary. It beats real work, I guess.

Are you talking about PETA or the Democratic Party?

For some reason, I'm craving Long John Silvers...

Phinn --- Touche

"Like you saw in the acclaimed documentary Finding Nemo."/

for some odd reason that made me laugh hysterically.

The "Your Daddy Kills Animals" comic is a parody, right?

Peta doesn't really put that out, do they??????

One of these days I'm taking my nephews lobster hunting in Florida.

Or the Bahamas.

But, I prefer them grilled--the lobsters, that is.

RWS, it's another in a series.

You should see the one with mommy skinnin a bunny.

I made a joke out of this referencing the tie on daddy while fishing (they wear ties all the time down here in Texas when fishing), but the cartoon with mommy is interesting too - she's wearing a dress, and an apron (pearls too, if I recall), basically June Cleaver with a cleaver you'll pardon the pun.

Do those kinds of stereotypes resonate with kids? I didn't know what to make of slasher daddy, he looks more my 75 year old dad than me.

except for the tie.

As has been pretty much said already,
if the fish are so G-D smart; they wouldn't
bite the hooks.
PETA should be doing important stuff like going after people showing lion and bear cage-match snuff films.

Until your daddy learns that it’s not “fun” to kill, keep your doggies and kitties away from him. He’s so hooked on killing defenseless animals that they could be next!

The Onion couldn't make a better parody - is PETA serious?!?!? I like animals, but "fish are smart?" Maybe fish are about as smart as PETA folks. Crazy.

Everytime I read something on PETA, I get this tremendous urge to barbecue as many animals as possible, inviting all my friends over.

If the wonderful folks at PETA (not really) keep talking about fish, I am going to lobby for fishing with dynamite, or grenades.

Maybe we could start a group. How about Carnivores in Action or BETA (barbecue everything that's alive).

V the K:

My own kids ridicule vegans

Consider all this insane energy that could be used helping people.

We laugh at PETA, and they are immature, moralistic pricks, but they do worry me a bit, too. The other side of the coin of their "pro-animal" B.S. is that they are fundamentally antihuman. I don't doubt for a second that they aren't sitting around and fantasizing about some plague eliminating about 90% of the planet's population. How long until frustration caused by their (self)marginalization prompts them to take more direct action?

Prediction: over the next 10 years, there will be more property damage and casualties caused in the U.S. by environmental terrorism than my Al Qaeda.

Since fish are so smart, maybe PETA can teach them not to eat those worms on a hook.

You know, cause "if you give a fish a fish, you feed him for a day, but if you teach a fish to fish you feed him for life."

...wait that doesn't sound right....

Well.... That settles it.

I know what I'm having for dinner tonight!

adolfo velasquez:

PETA hurts the cause by being so loony.

It makes normal animal lovers look ridiculous when we get upset about French fishhooks through puppy snouts.

Fish using tools doesn't seem that far fetched to me. After all, they seem to need bicycles pretty badly. Or at least that's what all the feminists I know keep telling me.

I was an vegetarian for 15 years. I never once felt comfortable telling someone else how they should eat.

The Left loves feeling morally superior to "the masses" even if requires delusional thinking (re: The Iraqi killers are "resistance fighters" along the lines of our founder fathers).

Many on the Left like to call the Right fascists, but take a look around. It is the Left who feels comfortable telling you how to eat, what to wear, what car to drive, etc.

Ace's recent post regarding conspiracy theorists was interesting. Basically, it referenced some research which stated that conspiracy theorists are middling intellects who need to believe in conspiracies. You see, they "know" something which the unwashed masses do not. I believe that these radical animal rights activists are the same. Nothing like throwing a pie in the face of a "heathen" to warm your own self-righteous heart.

I am reminded also of a quote by the Buddha (paraphrase):

A man is not defiled by what he puts in his mouth
Rather, man is defiled by what comes out of his mouth.

You see, they "know" something which the unwashed masses do not. I believe that these radical animal rights activists are the same.

You really meant washed masses didn't you?

"I am reminded also of a quote by the Buddha (paraphrase):

A man is not defiled by what he puts in his mouth
Rather, man is defiled by what comes out of his mouth."

Pretty sure that was Jesus.

Yup. Matthew 15:11.

Of course, Buddha could well have said something similar. More than a little overlap there.

You are right. The quote above did come from Jesus, but the Buddha also said something similar. (Although, admittedly, I quoted the more "Jesus-like" saying).

I have a book which compares the teachings of Buddha and Jesus. It is amazing how similar their teachings are in many ways.

Anyway, the quote I referenced:

There is nothing outside a person that by going in can defile, but the things that come out are what defile.
Mark 7.15

Stealing, deceiving, adultery; this is defilement. Not the eating of meat.

Sutta Nipata 242

"I have a book which compares the teachings of Buddha and Jesus. It is amazing how similar their teachings are in many ways."

I'd like to read it - can you send me the title, or an Amazon link, or some such?

the Book:

Jesus and Buddha
The Parallel Sayings

Edited by Marcus Borg
ISBN: 1-56975-121-8

It is an interesting little read, emphasis on little. The format consists of similar quotes from Jesus and Buddha displayed on opposing pages. Therefore, most pages have only a couple sentences on them. Still, I found it an enjoyable book.

Wasn't it the great philosopher Basho who said: A flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no hole, is a danish.

to the PETA jerks FINDING NEMO is not a documentry its a work of fiction and you PETA jerks should have those dirty wretched comics shoved down your throats you are the enemies of traditional faminies PETA should be disbanded

Shadow - thanks! I'm off to Amazon now ...

Lord Floppington, yes. And while we're breaking out the yux:

"To be is to do." - Plato
"To do is to be." - Sartre
"Do be do be do." - Sinatra

Think it's been touched on but my new bumper sticker is going to be:
PETA proof fish use "TOOLS"

(e.g. look at V the K's comment, which is basically saying "PETA is crazy, therefore I teach my kids to be mean to vegans".)

You could do much worse. You could teach them to BE vegans.

Anti-meat diets should be scorned.

Do worry about peta, in England we have animal right dipsticke, they "liberate" mink farms, dig up peoples grandparents for ransom and make the gestapo look benevolent, theu do not need disbanding, lobotomies would be more help. Are there any other sorts of liberals other than the rich dumb sort?

Calling PETA "tools" is insulting to tools everywhere. Tools are good! (all this tool talk makes me want to go read the latest Snap-On catalog...)

I must say, it is very gratifying to have so completely gotunder the skin of a fragile individual, but in truth, I never taught my kids to hate Vegans, only that, having grown up on a dairy farm, I knew first hand that that intellectual capacity of a cow was not much greater than that of a broccoli sprig. Everything else, they picked up from South Park, in particular, if you don't eat meat, you turn into a giant pussy.

Next time you meet a vegetarian ask them how they get their protein. Pay attention to the shoes they are wearing, and most importantly, try and get them to poke you in that cool leather jacket you're wearing. Then you can ask if they enjoyed fondling dead animal skin.

It is amazing how many vegetarians of conscience argue with you while wearing leather belts and shoes.

Still, while I'm not a vegetarian, I'll side with those who think we have an obligation of stewardship toward animals. We are obliged to handle them, as best we can, in direct proportion to their ability to experience fear or pain. And so I, too, am irritated with PETA for bringing howling discredit on any attempt to examine the relationship between people and animals.

And I think PETA is far more anti people than they are pro animals. I don't think the pair arrested in NC euthanizing pets in the back of a van and dumping them in dumpsters is a fluke; PETA has a very poor track record of pet adoption.

PETA is a new age freak cult i tell you their against the traditional american family and any parenst who catches a PETA jerk pushing this junk on their kids should be allowed to beat the snot out of the PETA jerk