Americans today seem to forget-- the Revolution wasn't fought over abortion, gay rights, or a "right to privacy."

Taxes and property, baby. The essential, eternal truths of human governance.

The payback on Kelo is going to be a *BITCH* one day.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Come on, what are these poor people gonna complain about. As I understand it, Porterhouse made a pretty good living. Chop Chop!!

If I were them I'd start 'discovering' all manner of endangered species that lived in the area.

Judge Kennedy/Souter/Stevens/Ginsburg/Breyer:

"I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them."

I could do this all day...

[dies laughing] Brilliant. I LOVE the Dems. Black people keep getting them elected, so what do they do? They take away black people's property and "relocate" them.

Oh, don't you understand, you poor little dears? It's almost as if God has spoken!

:D

Is this really anything new? The government and big business have tag teamed property owners for decades.

"If we don't use this power, cities will die."

That should read, "If we don't abuse this corporate power, 6000 black folk might have gone on living just the way they wanted in a nice little beach front town.

The rich get richer, taking advantage of the poor. Cities will die my ass! They should offer every single one of those families jobs at this plastic surgery and silicone injected playground. But will they? Hell no. They don't want the folks getting booted out on there asses anywhere near their posh false fraternity.

Call me crazy, but i don't think those 6000 people are going to take it lying down. 6000 are a lot of people to piss off, and i don't see Jeb Bush sending in the National Guard to forcefully evict 6000 people, expecially when they're...well, black.

You know what's crazy?
All this "cities will die" BS deftly avoids the fact that government policies regarding business, property, and who-knows-what else are probably responsible for the state of the area to begin with.
So, the exercise of government power caused it, and it takes a further exercise of government power to "fix" it.

Government: Just like you and me, without all that bothersome accountability. Oh, and we can just take stuff from you if we need it. And by "need", we mean "want".

I'll second Dave in saying that King George III is probably rolling over in his grave right now..

Between the aftermath of Katrina and imminent domain land grabs can anyone seriously doubt that the 2nd amendment is the most important one?

Should note that justifiable complaints about the Republicans aside (see article), the mayor of Riviera Beach is a Democrat, and Palm Beach County voted:
REP - George W. Bush 212,578 39.05%
DEM - John F. Kerry 328,553 60.35%
in the last election.

"It's easy to grinnn
when your ship comes innnn
and you've got the stock market beat.
But the man who's worthwhile
Is the man who can smile
When his pants are too tight in the seat."
Judge Smails, at the christening of his new yacht.

I think that Kelo is an issue that blurs liberal/conservative lines, if you'd let it. The liberals I know, which mind you tend to be leftist rather than mainstream libs, abhor Kelo because it takes from the people to give to corporations. What I hear, and what I believe, is that Eminent Domain should only be used when the property being taken is specifically for public use, not to then be given over for private use. The property is already being privately used, let the market determine the properties private use.

I think Warren Newell is the only (R) county commissioner in Palm Beach county.

He is so good that the dems can't unseat him even though his district votes (D) otherwise. It was close last time though. Dems pumped a LOT of money into trying to defeat him. Their candidate was some obvious political hack though.

"because it takes from the people to give to corporations"

I suspect the people you hang with vonK like it when its taken from the people and given to the government (i.e., farms, factories).

I'm not sure what you mean given the paranthetical examples. What I mean is that I and those I hang with are opposed to the use of Eminent Domain unless there is a public purpose for the property;e.g., mass transit, public hospital. I oppose the use of Eminent Domain for private purpose; e.g., shopping mall, stadium.

Well I was alluding to the the fact that your crowd of lefties likes the idea of redistribution of wealth and the government control of the things that produce wealth.

I own a business that makes good a quality product for a fair price. Home Depot is my competition, making crap product real cheap. If Home Depot wants to run me out of business, they can convince the town that more taxes will be paid by having Home Depot on my proerty than me. I own the building, the land, all may be to no good.

This really makes me sick.

Brew - Perhaps you think that we are Communists, is that you insinuation? Nope, tend more to squishy Anarcho-Syndicalism and EuroSocialists. Commies are far far too authoritarian for my crowd.

Perhaps you think that we are Communists, is that you insinuation?

yes

Nope, tend more to squishy Anarcho-Syndicalism and EuroSocialists

I'll get back to you on this. I have to go to the library now.

Ft. Hood. Bell County Jail.

Public use?

Not knowing any particulars, yes jails, schools, public hospitals, county courthouses, etc. would be public use facilities.

Is the jail in question a private for profit facility? The whole jail for profit issue is another...well, issue.

"Nope, tend more to squishy Anarcho-Syndicalism and EuroSocialists."

Anarcho-Syndicalism is so "squishy" that even back when I claimed it as my ideology, I didn't really understand what it mean - beyond Dennis the Peasant's speech, of course.

This is the Chomsky vision of a bunch of little autonomous collectives, each with a radio to communicate with the others - with no jurisdiction bigger than from one valley to the next, right?

Riiight.

Maybe you have some special pull with the sheriff, but I can't walk into the jail and use it for anything. Driving myself on over to Ft. Hood and trying to use that land myself will get me arrested (hey, then I can "use" the jail).

Ft. Hood (Camp Hood) was appropriated from a bunch of ranchers in 1942 using eminant domain. As was the rest of what it grew to, and darn few of them liked the deal. I do know this though, the public can't use it for jack.

so, I could like, state my point I suppose, which is that I'm not altogether jacked about Kelo just yet - there is obviously a broader definition of public use that's been used before.. I need to study on it a bit.

Dave, its not public use but for the greater benefit of the general public.

Well that's the argument from the court. I'm just not 100% sold yet on this idea (I hear mostly from conservatives) that the court redefined "public use" from a. something that is used by the public to b. something that benefits the public.

To wit, my two moron examples. Public benefit? Sure, train a tank destroyer batallion in a time of national emergency, or lock up criminals in the hoose-gow.

Public use? Not like I've heard in the arguments against Kelo.

lets get them to condem GEORGE SOROS place so they can build a homeless shelter lets do the same with ROSIE O,DONNELLS place

"You'll get nothing AND like it"-
"Well, the world needs ditchdiggers too."-Judge Smails

The attorney on the New London side was put to this question by a justice; If the land can yield a higher benefit to the State in tax revenues through this new use, it qualifies to be taken? And the attorney answered Yes.

I am paraphrasing, but that is the exact gist.

Dave in Texas,

This decision redefined "public use" from
a. something that is used by the public to
b. something that benefits the public.

Well, fine. However, 'benefits the public' in turn, actually means: 'whatever/whoever can genereate more revenue for the state/county/city.' Having read many of your posts, I'm having trouble understanding why you think (or seem to think) that increasing revenue for the local gummint overrides the rights of the property owner.

From the day that the Kelo decision came down, I have been hopping mad about it. If you read the opinions of the court, you can easily see that the fifth amendment is now all about cash money, as Yogi would say. If, for example, your 20-acre ranch can be turned into say, 20 ea. $10 million dollar homes, you lose your ranch. So, tell me, what is the fair market value of said ranch? AND, will you actually get that fair market value for it?

But, I have to say that this story is so sad that it makes me want to laugh. Perhaps the gentle reader is unaware that Palm Beach County(PBC) is probably the richest county in FL. Well, maybe not in terms of income, but, I would guess that the value of the average home is in the 8-figure range.

I have spent several months in the area, and I was absolutely astounded to discover that PBC has a poor black neighborhood. However, I am not so astounded to discover that rich white limo liberals want to take their propery from them.

Lest you think that this is the work of conservatives, take a second look at the voting statistics as cited by geoff, above.

Liberarals are wont to blame the Kelo decision on the 'conservative Rehnquist court.' However, Rehnquist didn't vote for it. Nor, did the 'swing voter', Sandra Day Oconner.

BTW, the biggest irony of all: the Southern Command of EIB network is located in PBC.

LL

I would guess that the value of the average home is in the 8-figure range....I have spent several months in the area, and I was absolutely astounded to discover that PBC has a poor black neighborhood.
I have lived in PBC for 20 years.

There's a lot more than one "poor black neighborhood". There are whole towns that are predominently lower income and predominently black. Pahokee, Belle Glade, South Bay -- and Riviera Beach.

The median home price these days is somewhere in the $350-450K range.

If you start talking "Palm Beach" (the city of) out on the island, well then that is a completely different story. That is very expensive. Those airheads even perfume the sewers (that's not a joke, they do)

lauraw, yeah, I had read that too. And I know you've seen me comment here long enough to know I'm pretty conservative, and that includes property rights. I'm not saying I like the decision. But it isn't a new decision.

Using eminant domain to acquire property from landowners to build railroads benefits corporation(s) at the expense of the landowner too.

In Texas, and I'm sure many other states, a city with a population of 100,000 or more can annex any adjoining unincorporated land for up to 8 miles each year. The owners of that land don't even get to vote on it. Now, they don't lose it, but they do start paying property taxes for all their fabulous new services, including paying for the cost of connecting their home to the new sewage lines the city brings along (eventually).

Larry points to what I think is a better argument, the issue of whether or not the compensation is just. All the Kelo owners got was "fair market value" for a beat up home. Since neither Ft. Hood nor the Bell County Jail generate tax revenues, it really isn't applicable to my example but it certainly is to Kelo.

However he also said "dear reader" so he can blow me.

No, he said "gentle reader".

The "dear reader" is in North Korea.

However he also said "dear reader" so he can blow me

I'm thinking you maybe should have thrown the 'In conclusion...monkey...etc' out there :)

Lipstick, I stand corrected.

Brew, I miss cf. I don't even think that idiot that used to say DISMISSED all the time was worth it.

Brew, I miss cf.

Hah!

Michael, Dave misses him in the "I want to flame him until his nose bleeds" sense. Not in your "I want to have his baby" sense.

yeah, I miss arguing with him on topics like this, which generally steered clear of his stupid anti-semitic or racist remarks, not "I miss holding his hand like Michael used to".

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