I'm wondering how many of those NOPD officers actually existed as anything but a name on a paycheck? Oldest trick in the book, apparently also a problem in the NO school system. Not that some officers didn't just walk away, they clearly did; just curious about where those paychecks ended up being deposited. Maybe Sen. Landrieu and her brother have an idea, hence the stridency?

Damn, I didn't know we were going to get a pop-quiz on this. Uhh, is it ChimpyMcHaliburtonBushHitlerNazi? Or is it Evil Genius Karl Rove? I'll say - Evil Genius Karl Rove. Final answer.

Posted this earlier, but not in a busy thread...it's worth a read.

Ray Nagin thinks we should go easy on those police officers.

How easy?

How about a paid vacation to Las Vegas?

You know, to 'jump start the emotional healing.'

Lt. Gen Blum, in his Saturday brieifing, responded to the notion that delay in using Guardsmen in policing roles was caused by some sort of paperwork holdup:

GEN. BLUM: No, there was no delay. The fortunate thing is with modern technology they faxed the agreement back and forth, the two governors signed it. It was a matter of moments. That was not the delay....

The real issue, particularly in New Orleans, is that no one anticipated the disintegration or the erosion of the civilian police force in New Orleans. Once that assessment was made, that the normal 1500 man police force in New Orleans was substantially degraded, which contributed obviously to less police presence and less police capability, then the requirement became obvious and that’s when we started flowing military police into the theater.

What people are going to take away from this disaster aren't the images of people being airlifted from roofs or whatever. We've all seen that stuff before. (Maybe we'll be arguing that less people might needed to have been airlifted had better plans been in place and all, but that's not what'll be haunting us about what happened in New Orleans.)

No, this is gonna be remembered and talked about for the stories of what happened in the Silverdome, the police helping themselves, how instead of some Movie of the Week worthy image of a community coming together, it went the other way. How a great city descended into third world, suprepredator tribes. And the reason that was allowed to happen was because of the NO police force. They will be the Chicago Black Sox of law enforcement agencies as long as people are around to tell the stories.

Bah, that 3rd par. above was also Blum's quote. Sorry.

The one overriding thing that all of us modern, hyper-informed folks keep skipping is that pretty much all of the first responders in New Orleans didn't have communications, and how much that really means.

A modern police force needs communications, at some sort of basic level, to keep working. They need modern, current, comprehensive communications to handle things when it really hits the fan. A cop needs to know that his buddies back at the precinct house can come help when he's shooting it out with a couple of gang-bangers, or to help him get help for that car accident victim.

New Orleans had nothing, due to the (here it comes again) screwups by the folks in charge who didn't arrange for redundant, generator-powered backup systems for their radios and command/control systems.

Without that, it's not a shock that one of the less-motivated police forces in the country shattered like a Mason jar on a concrete step.

I have mixed feelings about the NO police. Yes, they have a well-earned reputation for corruption.
Yes, some of them looted.
And those should be considered bad guys and locked up.

But there are those others who were there in the thick of things, trying futilely to help people. They had no coordinated planning from above, no backup, and were utterly outmanned by the sheer scope of the lawlessness around them and the scale of the devastation.

Mid-week one of them was complaining bitterly to the media that the job was impossible, and impossibly dangerous.

I feel bad for the good guys, however few of them remained in the end.

If I may play devil's advocate for the mayor, I think he was doing a pretty good job as an administrator prior to this disaster. He was receiving very high marks for cleaning up a lot of corruption with the city government and was starting to make strides within the police department. And of course once all of this happened he was really no longer the mayor. City services no longer existed, the response was taken over by the Governor, and all he had left was to spout off on tv.

At what point did he cease being the mayor?

It's virtually all Blanco's fault. She is clearly a clueless cover-your-ass political hack who simply melted down under pressure. Nagin was and is useless but she has the power to get things done anyway.

Once the NOPD collapsed, that was all she wrote. But the Feds should have been watching TV. I would have sent in armed troops to keep order and cared less about the legal niceties.
Our' legalistic', whiny "I'll sue you" approach is one of the reasons this happened . No-on wanted to be in the line of 'legal' fire and the innocents were left to the mercy of the predators.

This is simply not good enough.

I've heard (second hand, maybe someone can come up with a link) that the starting salary for the NO police department is $16K. So hey, you get what you pay for. Ahh, and don't bother with the "but the cost of living is lower down south" bit, that's shit pay anywhere in the U.S. Probably the tax base doesn't exist to pay any higher than that. I should say that the story here is that when disaster strikes a city full of low income people, with a second rate civilian infrastructure, and leadership that's only qualified to dole out contracts to their buddies, things go to hell. Why would anyone be surprised this can happen in America?

He ceased being a mayor when he no longer had a city. No electricity, no water, no sewer, communications towers blown down. No one could communicate with anyone. Police officers in the city were on their own because they could not communicate or even move about. I'm not defending the guy, I'm saying he became irrelevant when the city filled up with water. The governor should have acted immediately.

Racist. You wouldn't be asking these question is New Orleans's police force and leadership wasn't majority black.

I'm really beginning not to like this guy:

State officials said late Monday afternoon that the repeated helicopter droppings of 3,000-pound sandbags into the football-field-wide break in the 17th Street canal leading to Lake Ponchartrain succeeded in stopping the water, and water was being pumped from the canal back into the lake. Some parts of the city showed slipping floodwaters as the repair neared completion, with some low-lying areas dropping more more than a foot. “We’re starting to make the kind of progress that I kind of expected earlier,” New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said even before the plug of the break, which opened up a day after the hurricane and flooded 80 percent of the city up to 20 feet deep.

What an asshole.

That's it, I'm calling some of my buddies back at the Farm and we're going to take care of Mr. Nagin once and for all. Look for an "overdose" in his near future. We'd better move soon, because he's already telling people the CIA are going to get him.

Nagin goes nuts

Dammit.

Bastard is on to us.

Guess I'll have to call the FBI.

DigBrownshirt: Holy shit. Public meltdown.

Hey...if you're gonna take the rap, you might as well do the crime.

Whoa. Check out the shit we just built here in Houston - a whole new city!

Software won't let me post a "chron dot com" address, so here's the path: www.chron(dot)com/domeblog/archives/2005/09/say_howdy_to_re.html

Know what would be helpful in New Orleans? Some John Wayne dude.

Keith Olbermann believed Lance Armstrong was doped because the bicyclist had crossed a union picket line.

Now he's blogging on Katrina, and says the entire federal response can be measured by a slip of the tongue by Michael Chertoff...

Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff said it all, starting his news briefing Saturday afternoon: "Louisiana is a city that is largely underwater..." Well there's your problem right there. If ever a slip-of-the-tongue defined a government's response to a crisis, this was it.

It's as though you can watch him grow more stupid.

No matter what you say about New Yorkers, at least they were smart enough to elect a John Wayne dude.

The pay for N.O. police officers isn't that low when you consider the incredible level of graft and corruption on the force -- perhaps even exceeding the police departments of D.C. and New York. When you consider their TOTAL benefits package they do all right. Now with organized criminal activity experiencing a meltdown, this little bit of income enhancement has ceased, so it's no wonder a huge percentage of the N.O. cops just left their post or even turned into free-lance pirates and thugs.

As details of the early days of the disaster begin to surface, it's now obvious that the Louisiana Governor was merely a fumbling bimbo completely out of her intellectual depth (no pun intended?), and that New Orleans has elected a certifiable idiot who will next blame the slow response on space mutants from the Planet Eemok who stole all his carefully-prepared disaster plans and such essentials as communication systems and ... well, you get the picture.

Why was Bush snowboarding, playing guitar and whatever else for 3 days while this entire thing was unfolding?

Why did the Governor ask for Federal help on the 28th?

What was the whole thing about Mike Brown not knowing about the situation at the Convention Center when we all knew about it?

Why did that food stand in Bush's photo op get torn down right after Bush left?

If there was so much violence (gunfire) that prevented help to these people, according to FEMA and the Federal government, why didn't we see it in the continous reports AT the Convention Center and Superdome by reporters show any gunfire footage?

Why was the footage, that I seen, all in the night and dark?

Why should the poor people, who made up probably 90 - 95% of the total people that didn't leave, be the ones to blame?

Why, since these people couldn't leave, did it not seem logical that the many thousands could live longer in the Superdome and Convention Center?

Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin purposely neglected to tell people that they were there?

Why did the Bush administration cut funding that could have been used to decrease the amount of flooding or at least prolonged it to save more lives?

You know. I never really got into the political game before this event. I don't care about whos on the Left side or whos on the Right side. I don't care if you think I'm Liberal or if you think I'm a conservative.

All I care about is how truly ignorant and stupid people can be. Those who are not either ignorant or stupid are a POS.

I personally never cared about either possible Presidential candidate from Clinto to Gore, to the Bush family.

But when you sit there for a week and watch on television and then you come online and read the comments posted here and other conservative, right people just because they support Bush it just makes you want to puke.

The President lied about the war in Iraq. There was contracts in place for it's oil BEFORE a contigency plan. Who got the contracts?

The company formally ran by Dick Cheney who still retains a huge amount of stocks of: Halliburton.

So like I said people are ignorant, stupid or believes in corruption and incompetence. Wake up already.

It's as though you can watch him grow more stupid.

Moonbats these days are like a Chia-pet : just add water...

What part of '72-96 hours before major federal aid can arrive' do people not understand? Everything happened pretty much on schedule, especially when you consider the logistical nightmare faced in determining usable routes BEFORE the levees gave way.

So like I said people are ignorant, stupid or believes in corruption and incompetence.

Quit being so hard on yourself, Alan. We dont't think you believe in corruption and incompetence.

...So like I said people are ignorant, stupid or believes in corruption and incompetence...

Through all of recorded history the SMART MONEY will always bet on ignorance, stupidity, corruption and incompetence (i.e. "failure")

Times change, human nature doesn't.

If you believe in "evolution" you MUST accept this - because evolution is "failure driven". Nature drills a million dry holes before it stumbles accidentally across a gusher.

Awwwww, Alan B. You really had me going there for a minute. I really thought you might be a non-political but honest player, comparing coverage you saw on TV with comments you read here, frowning, and assuming we were the liars. I was mentally preparing a gentle, earnest response. And then -- yoink! -- up pops Halliburton.

Halliburton. It is to political discussions what "I put pennies in my shoes so the Pope can't control my brainwaves from the Vatican" is to conversations on the bus.

Why did the Governor ask for Federal help on the 28th?

That document was for federal funding.

When it came to federal command and control the governonr played politics while NO drowned. The Nero of our times.

Brown found out about the CC about the same time as everybody elese.

And the rest of your talking points are stale as the TANG memos.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4217022.stm
this tourist said the NOLA cops were refusing to rescue women who wouldn't lift their t-shirts to show them their tits.

Mardi Gras is next year, guys.

I sense an "as useless/corrupt/cowardly as a New Orleans cop" meme building here. I also think for the real story you';ll have to go to the foreign press.

“We’re starting to make the kind of progress that I kind of expected earlier,” New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said even before the plug of the break, which opened up a day after the hurricane and flooded 80 percent of the city up to 20 feet deep.

What's this "we" business, Mayor? Sean Penn has done more to drain the floodwaters from NO than you have, even if it was only with a red plastic cup! Dickweed.

I don't know. I found this to be the most amazing part of Alan's tirade:

Why was Bush snowboarding, playing guitar and whatever else for 3 days while this entire thing was unfolding?

Dave, help us out here. There's good snowboarding in Texas? In August?

News to me.

Well there would be snowboarding in Texas if we had only ratified the Kyoto Protocol. As it is, Texas gets pretty warm in August.

Actually did you read the official call for assistance on the 28th, the declaration of a State of Emergency on the 26th, both by Governor Blanco?

It wasn't for financial assistance. Also when they declared a State of Emergency on the 26th why did it take until the 2nd for them to get in there when it should have occured on the 29th?

Continue to weave the web that continues to choke you.

Also, I just read about Halliburton not to long ago. I never really cared about it until I matched their practices and statements, their contracts with various other events.

But continue to live in your bubbles. Ignorant and stupid people generally fall the hardest.

Actually did you read the official call for assistance on the 28th, the declaration of a State of Emergency on the 26th, both by Governor Blanco?

No, where may I read it?

Also, I just read about Halliburton ...

Bzzzzt - wrong answer. Mentioning Halliburton automatically tags you with the moonbat label.

When help was requested.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf.

I can't open the file.

Could you give us the URL?

I've just read most of the document at your link, AlanB.

Governor Blanco only requested money and debris removal assistance. The line item marked on the last page as "Distribution of emergency supplies" is zero.

The purpose of the document was to expedite federal disaster funding. Blanco was requesting that Bush declare her state a disaster area to accomplish this.

Bush did declare a State of Emergency for Louisiana on on the 27th.

I don't think he can declare a place as a disaster area until the actual disaster occurs. Katrina made landfall on the 29th. The best he could do was what he did - declare a State of Emergency and promise the governor exactly what she requested.

Sorry Alan, your source proves you wrong.

Dang it! Why couldn't I open the file?

Cause you're a goober.

Why do they insist on this "she declared" (for funding expedition) means she told Bush "TAKE OVER MAN"?!

I know they can read. What's the deal?

Try this one Slublog.

I had to remove a period at the end of the address.

Ah, that worked.

Reading isn't the problem, it's comprehension. They only see what they want to see.

The following were copy & pasted from another person's blog.

Right-wingers claim the state of Louisiana never requested federal aid. Wrong. The request is available here: http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

Right-wingers claim nobody had any idea that the storm would be this bad. Wrong. Read the report from the National Weather service, dated 10:01 AM, Sunday August 28th, here: http://kamala.cod.edu/offs/KLIX/0508281550.wwus74.html

Right-wingers claim Bush (and by extension FEMA) had no idea how bad it would be. That's probably why the White House declared a disaster on Saturday - before Katrina even hit - and authorized FEMA 'to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures.' http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

Right-wingers claim that mayors and governors have the main responsibility in the event of natural disasters. Wrong - it's FEMA, according to their own web site: http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

CNN compiled statements by Bush administration officials, and contrasts them with what actually happened, here: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html

You may have seen video of Bush watching the broken levees being repaired, and thought progress was being made. Sorry to disappoint: that was fake. A staged photo-op. 'Mission Accomplished' all over again. http://www.fromtheroots.org/story/2005/9/3/19542/97952

George Bush claimed that nobody could have known the levees would break. Well, nobody except the local newspaper, which had a five-part series on the subject that won a Pulitzer Prize.... http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/

...or the mayor, who said it was going to happen on Sunday, here: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/29/national/29storm.html

.... Or the Army Corps of Engineers, which has been warning of just this scenario for years: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/national/nationalspecial/01levee.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1125576 074-sQ7+z4rSz1ij9jpG9m+KiA

Of course you all will either flame and insult or spin nonsense that has been spun in front of your face by the Bush Administration.

I'd laugh at the idiocy that reigns within the *blind* people who believe everything told to them by corrupt politicians.

Unfortunately, anyone who paid attention to this disaster and read other sources besides bias ones could obviously see the incompetence AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

Do I think that the Bush Administration is completely at fault? No. I think there should be questions and blame on the local and state level. But when you review everything the majority of the blame is on the Federal Level.

Of course you all will either flame and insult or spin nonsense that has been spun in front of your face by the Bush Administration.

I'd laugh at the idiocy that reigns within the *blind* people who believe everything told to them by corrupt politicians.

Unfortunately, anyone who paid attention to this disaster and read other sources besides bias ones could obviously see the incompetence AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

Do I think that the Bush Administration is completely at fault? No. I think there should be questions and blame on the local and state level. But when you review everything the majority of the blame should be on the Federal Level.

Of course you all will either flame and insult or spin nonsense that has been spun in front of your face by the Bush Administration.

Whatever, you shit-headed moron pukeface.

w00t!

cut and pasted from another blog?

are you kidding me?

Today we salute you, Mr. Other Blog Cutting and Pasting Guy

Bud Light Presents: Real Men of Genius

That's right Mr. Other Blog Cutting and Pasting Guy. Any guy can post a link to a respected mainstream media source, or find a video clip of some idiot pissing all over the Bush administration, but you offer up what we really need, unattributed quotes from an anonymous moron-blog, cut and pasted right there in the comment thread. Tire-installer by day, geopolitical strategist by night, you comb the internets for thrilling and insightful commentary, why, in some cases with more adjectives and fewer spelling errors than you yourself would offer up.

If there's slime, you'll cut it. If there's shrill, you'll paste it. And if there's sneering, well then everything's going to be o.k.

So crack open an ice-cold Bud Light, internet boy. You've earned it Mr. Other Blog Cutting and Pasting Guy.

I'd laugh at the idiocy that reigns within the *blind* people who believe everything told to them by corrupt politicians.

I'd laugh at your stupid comments, but it would be like kicking a puppy.

A moron puppy that keeps shitting all over the carpet.

wOOt!

I'd laugh at the idiocy that reigns within the *blind* people who believe everything told to them by corrupt politicians.

you cut and pasted that from another blog, didn't you?

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/crskatrinarept91205.pdf

And whats your response to that link?

Or the fact that Bush is finally taking responsibility for his actions?

Ut oh. THings are unfolding here. The Governor actually did everything in her power that should could and it became the responsibility of the Federal Government.

So what about the fact that the army won't let Reporters in for the recovery effort of the bodies?

I guess we have to go by what is told to as as the number of bodies. The problem that this Administration fails to see is that people will be missing *in a few months* and that number will be closer to the death toll than what the Bush Administration will *want you to believe*.

Sorry, posted the above comment as well.

But here is another interested article that I read:

http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=11902&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

Another interesting link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/12/AR2005091201260.html

Hey, how about making an argument yourself instead of cutting and pasting random stuff from democrats and lefty news outlets?

Or have all those years of simply accepting leftist doctrine melted what you have left of a brain?

Bad puppy! Bad puppy!

wOOt!

I'm not blinded by the Bush spins. Still cannot see how people could be so ignorant and blind.

And each one of those links points to facts people need to look at. Why should I put my *opinions* when I can simply put facts?

You guys cannot handle facts?

You guys cannot handle facts?

No, we just don't like people incapable of critical thought.

AlanB:

I followed your links: did you *really* reference a George Will article in your links above? One that doesn't support your case at all? The other links are pretty weak.

For the record, I think we'd all like an investigation of exactly how the disaster was handled. It's clear that all levels of government could have performed better, and that every urban area needs to take a very close look at its preparations.

Turning this disaster into yet another premature Bush witch-hunt, however, is counterproductive.

Investigation by who?

Independents or by the Federal Government? You honestly think Bush should be heading an investigation?

I mean come on. While he sat there saying he was going to head the investigation did you guys all buy that?

Republicans are now admitting that FEMA failed. Mike Brown has retired. This guy was appointed by "George Bush" because one of his compaign managers were friends with Mike Brown in college.

Mike Brown has been linked to fraudelant endeavors and had to retire.

He was qualified? Hardly. The argument that no one is truly qualified is a piss poor excuse.

You guys support cutting wages as well? Why? So Halliburton and the other companies who have received no-bid contracts in New Orleans can make more profit?

That helps us how?

Why not establish a government(local, state or federal) regulated and ran entity that pays money directly to the workers instead of having Halliburton in the middle?

And cutting wages eliminates red tape? Ummm.... If they have to cut wages they have to change paperwork to reflect this. So in essense that argument is ridiculous and if anyone buys into then they are extremely stupid. Its illogical.

So what about the war in Iraq? WMD? They are just coming out of Iraq by the truck loads are they not? Ooops... substitute OIL for WMD then you got it.

Yes. American people are dying, for big corporations to control and profit from Iraq and possibly future endeavours...

Is it Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Iraqi Privatization? The War on Terrorism or the War for Profit?

Furthermore, we develop nuclear power for energy so why these countries like Iran or North Korean not do the same? Oh because they might make WMD?

We make WMD yet who is invading us to tell us to stop? Very hypocritical.

I don't support the manufactoring of WMD. I don't think any government should have them. But before you point your fingers at another country telling them they are doing something bad you better make sure you are not doing it yourself.

What a coincidence that all the countries mentioned to be terrorist harboring countries also happen to have 50+ billion barrels of oil in reserves? Where does the contracts go when we *wipe out terrorism* in those countries? Companies like Halliburton (Cheney owns a huge portion of).

What about the coverups of the whole Able Danger? Why?

There is so much crap that is going on with this corrupt and greedy administration.

To me its not about a Republican or a Democrat: Its not about being a Liberal or Conservative. Nor is it about being a Left or a Right. To me its about being a human being.

Personally, I don't care about any of the current leaders. Democrats or Republicans. When a leader stands up thats seeks to completely destroy organizations and businesses that are about control then I'll be the first to take a bullet for them.

Its my belief that if mankind can shed its history of seeking power and control then the true nature of what we can become will begin to emerge.

Unfortunately, our current world leaders, and most importantly our own here in the US only seek to empower themselves and their friends.

There is only one so-called conspiracy theory that I believe. The idea that corporations and our current leaders seek to bankrupt us. Once this is done then corporations who have the wealth and power gain complete control.

Think about whats happening. Think for yourselves. Before you start calling me names and saying I'm wrong take the time to research and truly think about these things.

I'm not asking you to change your political stance from either side. I'm asking you to think about whats going on. Why so many bills are being removed or introduced that takes away civil rights, why so many tax cuts (That benefit the rich immensely) are being made, why the countries being targeted have so much oil yet are labeled as harboring terrorism.

Ask yourself some of these other questions:

WHo profits from the War in Iraq?

Who profits from terrorist attacks?

Who profits from damages caused by natural disasters (such as Katrina)?

Now ask yourself:

Who pays for the War in Iraq?

Who pays for the terrorist attacks?

Who pays for the natural disasters?

Think for yourselves people and you'll know the answers.