So, is Krugman saying that George Bush is two weeks short of a proper vacation?

"Perhaps even more important, however, the members of that French family are compensated for their lower income with much more time together."

No wonder they're always in such a pissy mood.

Seven weeks off would be cool. Unless you had to spend it with the French.

I'd rather spend two weeks a year camping with my kids than seven weeks in the finest hotel in France.

And put the extra five weeks pay into improvements in my private, suburban home. Which I own. And grow equity in. And will use to one day buy a winnebago and a chihuahua. ANd spend my retirement traveling the highways and byways of America, with money to spare for my kids college.

Not some rent-controlled non-air conditioned hovel in France. Or anywhere else in Europe. My ancestors left that fucking place for a reason.

That the nyt chooses to give such a hate-filled cretin space on its op-ed page is a good indication of what the nyt's owners are theselves - hate-filled cretins.

The Sulzbergers - America's home-grown melanoma.

With unemployment hovering at 10 percent, a growing number of French can no longer afford a traditional August getaway -- a summer ritual that symbolizes the good life a la francaise.

And a great way to "off" grandma and grandpa.

Second prize: fourteen weeks with your French family.

Lieberalism: Logic's retarded cousin

Doh.

Of course if I spelled "Liberalism" correctly it might have made the point better.

Or maybe I'm a closet lib.

No, I think Lie-beralism covers it nicely.

BFW

Of course, you should probably spell D'oh correctly, too ... or at least use the Arab form D'o'h.

;-)

Is anyone really surprised a preening, sawed-off little pussy like Paul Krugman loves the French? Really? It's conceivable that this hyperventilating skirt would be considered male in that nation of lazy, nicotine stained Puegot-jockeys. If there is a more perfect speciman of whiny liberal beta-maledom in all of the universe than Paul Krugman, I am unaware of it. And that's probably because that guy is too busy running for his life from angry toddlers.

If he were merely proposing that Americans should choose to spend more time with their families and less at work, then I'd agree with him.

But that's the problem with the french system; there isn't much choice; they're saddled with government intervention, trade union power blocs, and unemployment.

Well said UGA, well said. Now that you mention it, I'll have to remember to train the Chihuahua to bark at every peugot and citroen we run off the road.

The French also have rights we do not have. They have the right to healthcare and any French citizen who qualifies for college has a right to higher education. The French don't complain about taxes either and are mostly proud of their government. Krugman, a Princeton University professor, understands much more about life in Europe than any of the people posting here as evidenced by their posts. He knows that there are wealthy people in France and large, successful corporations. The most important difference between our system and the rest of the industrialized world is that we give our corporations unprecidented power that they don't have anywhere else. This corporate power is the source of almost all of our problems.

Here's what really chaps my ass about douchenozzles like Krugman:

Europe basically hid behind our coat-tails from 1945-1991 for fear of the big bad Soviet Bear. While we spend large amounts on their defense (not to mention the Marshall plan) they built big comfy welfare states. Why not? No need to spend your GDP on defense as long as we were willing to do it for them. Everybody gets a Vacation! You can never be fired! Woo-hoo, look how fuckin cool we are, you loathsome yankee capitalist tools!

Now that we have slain the Bear, the ingrate fuckwads want to tell us how fucked up we are, because we spent so much time and energy building the most fearsome military the world has ever seen. And we built it to protect their sorry asses, along with our own self interests. But they still received the benefits.

If you really want to piss off an American, take his money, then piss on his leg. It will work every time.

Watch out Ace, next thing you know, Krugie will be slapping you with a restraining order for "stalking"

This corporate power is the source of almost all of our problems.

Problems? You mean the 5% unemployment rate? The 4.5% long-term mortgage rates? The highest home ownership rate in history? A falling number of teenage moms? Solid economic growth? A budget deficit dropping by $100 billion a year? The leadership of the world in virtually every type of R&D? The most powerful military on the globe?

Hmmm... With "problems" like that, who needs "solutions"?

Gromulin, your ass is chapped over a couple of misconceptions: 1. we rebuilt Europe for our own benefit as much as the benefit of Europe. A rebuilt and economically revitalized western Europe presented the best defense to Warsaw Pact aggression; and, 2. We did not "slay the bear" with military might. We beat the communist block with McDonalds hamburgers and Levi jeans.

Dogstar, that was a pleasing picture you painted, but it's straight out of Repub talking points 101. Every year there are more people owning homes regardless of the administration. This has always been the case. The true unemployment number is more like 7.5%, not 5%. The deficit is greater than it's ever been and even the government doesn't say it will drop by $100 B per year, so I don't know where you got that one. We are now the largest debtor nation in the world. We now pay twice the average per capita for healthcare than the average paid by the rest of the industrialized world even though our system is rated towards the middle or bottom on most indicators. As far as R&D goes, where have you been. There's been much written on our national "brain drain" in areas like genetic research, medical research and even space research. Japan has eaten our lunch again with hybrids because Detroit was too mired in oil politics to understand what was going to happen. Now, everyone wants a Prius. Where have you been?

"We beat the communist block with McDonalds hamburgers and Levi jeans"

So which is it? Did we beat the Soviet bear with the most powerful military in the world or with unprecedented corporate power? I'm confused. I know it wasn't with guaranteed health care.

We beat the communist block with McDonalds hamburgers and Levi jeans.

Interesting theory...

Levis were around since before 1900 and McDonalds was around since the 1950s. How exactly did the Soviet Union manage to fight off their double-pronged attack for four decades?

I'm sure SDI had nothing to do with the USSR's collapse; after all, the collapse happened almost immediately after we started developing it.

Mere co-incidence.

Bill, You are a delusional moonbat. Without the threat of military force, all of western europe would have fallen to the Soviets. I stated that it was also in our benefit, but the point being that the "Rights" they have that you claim we don't are directly associated with their not having to rebuild their own infrastructure or provide for their own defense for over 40 years.

We killed the Bear. Wheter the final blow was a cheeseburger or brilliant pebbles makes no difference.

Every year there are more people owning homes regardless of the administration. This has always been the case.

The record statistic of highest home ownership ever that we currently enjoy is expressed as PERCENTAGE of the population, not raw numbers.

The deficit is greater than it's ever been...

Two questions:

1. If it's "greater than it's ever been", then why is it... um, LOWER this year than last?

2. The deficit is currently less than 3% of GDP, which is lower than most of the late 80s and early 90s. In other words, it's lower now than it was when Gingrich took control of the House and forced Clinton to balance the budget.

Now, everyone wants a Prius.

Is that why SUVs and trucks outsell everything else? People keep thinking they're buying a Prius, and when they get it home they discover it's transformed into an Escalade?

Hey Batten - if things are so effing peachy, and the French so effing happy -- why is it that they commit suicide at MUCH higher effing rates than us downtrodden exploited, depressed Americans?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Tony, that's an interesting tidbit, if true. Tell me though, which society enjoys the greater murder rate and which has a higher infant mortality rate? We could trade stats until blue in the face. I'm just trying to add a little perspective to this discussion. As someone who has been to France a number of times on business, I can tell you that they are not an unhappy population. Nobody worries about declaring bankruptcy over a medical emergency. Nobody worries that their kid won't be able to go to college because they don't have enough money. We could learn a few things from the Western Europeans and it does not serve us well to close our eyes to the realities of the rest of the world.

Dogstar, your deficit numbers are wrong. The year end deficit will be the greatest in history. The debt is greatest in history. The trade deficit is greatest in history. We owe more debt than any nation in the world. Who will you blame when China starts exerting the political and corporate control over our society that a large creditor inevitably does?

French public debt as a percentage of GDP is actually larger than ours, and considering their growth rate is about half ours it is not getting any better.

National debt as % of GDP, currently:

Japan, 164%
Italy, 120%
France, 74%
Canada, 71%
Germany, 67%
United States, 64%
United Kingdom, 43%

http://www.scrivener.net/2005/06/debt-position-and-credit-rating-of.html

"The French also have rights we do not have."

You mean like free speech? Oh wait, actually they don't have that. Were you aware of that?

"They have the right to healthcare..."

Well, the right to stand in line for healthcare, anyway. Have you ever been in a French hospital?

"As someone who has been to France a number of times on business, I can tell you that they are not an unhappy population."

Maybe someone should let the French know...

FRANCE is facing an unprecedented new-generation exodus as many of its disillusioned younger people leave in search of a better life abroad.

French organisations offering help to those seeking to emigrate have reported an increase in requests for assistance from young people.

Fed up with a country they describe as rigid, racist and old-fashioned, French youngsters are opting for a new start in Britain, Canada, America or New Zealand where they can find housing and jobs more easily than in France.

Unemployment among the under-25s in France stands at 23.3 per cent, and 40 per cent of 18-30 year-olds describe their financial state as "difficult".

Many cite French employment practices as being at the root of the problem.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1767642005

But what of the great Family Life Krugman was telling us aboubt? Actually it seems the hard working capitalists of Europe - the British and the Irish - score higher in Family life satisfaction, with 52% and 53% very satisfied, compared to 41% for the French (page 25).

The survey sadly doesn?t ask Americans. But according to the 2002 Pew Global survey, 67% of Americans were very satisfied with their family lives, compared to 43% of the French! Given Krugmans article, the only eplanation is false consciousness among the gullible Americans.

http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/2005/07/sacra_blue_1.html

Be careful about comparing infant mortality rates (or any statistics, for that matter) between countries, because they often calculate them differently. The difference in infant mortality rates has to do with whether or not premature births who later die are counted or not. You might assume that such things would be done the same everywhere, but you'd be wrong. If calculated the same way, American infant mortality rates are among the best in the world, of course.

An interesting phenomena is occurring here at the good ol' AoSHQ. More and more talking point commenters like Bill Batten are showing up. If I've seen that McDonalds/Blue Jean phrase once I've seen it a million times. I guess Ace has made the Kos Kids 'hit' list. lol.

We beat the communist block with McDonalds hamburgers and Levi jeans.

And Madonna. I actually agree with you. I've been arguing for years that the Cold War was won more by cultural forces than political or military forces.

BTW, it's Communist "bloc," not "block."

I was thinking the same thing Brewfan.
I sure wish the evil corporate masters would figure out a way to keep the dead Chicagoans away from the polls every election.

Got to figure out a way to start a good thread about communism.

Then Bill can tell us that communism never failed, because it was never really tried.

And then that will lead to the inevitable 'cognitive dissonance' prattle...and we can all go to sleep knowing what we are dealing with...

It is tedious though. Mostly because they lie and misrepresent themselves. You have to spend all this time making them mad before they finally rip the mask off.

"You have to spend all this time making them mad before they finally rip the mask off."

You got it. Like ol' whats-his-name who dropped the 'Hebe' bomb in a thread the other night as he was getting his ass ripped wide open by...well everybody. Even Michael.

I really hate to tell you this, Brewfan, now that we're buddies and all, but I was not ripping what's-his-name the other night, although you took it that way.

I was actually encouraging him. Trust me, I'm a Cedarford connesiour.

"Grenoble, France – A Frenchman was killed and two companions injured when the mattress they were using as a sled crashed into a grove of trees on New Year’s Eve."

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:T0lwVaMe_SoJ:www.goodbyemag.com/jan99/mayhem.html+french+man+kills+family&hl=en

Come on now Michael. Its taken me a while but I can now appreciate your subtle wit and nimble turning of a phrase. Let me use an analogy; it's like you 'hold' him here with faint praise while everybody else slaps the sh*t out of him. Nice one, mister. Nice one.

P.S. I have to admit to having a certain amount of sympathy for you since I've learned the pool boy is porking Ms. Michael

Nobody worries that their kid won't be able to go to college because they don't have enough money

Welcome to the year 2005.

With the existence of various sorts of financial aid, stafford loans, pell grants, in-state tuition reduction at state universities, and community colleges, what American truly cannot afford to go to college? I somehow managed to attend a $30,000 a year University when my mom's yearly income wasn't much more than that.

Other than in lame Hollywood movies, I really want to know what person in America absolutely cannot afford to go to college in today's day and age.

We could learn a few things from the Western Europeans

Like how to kill Grandmas faster via heatstroke instead of Schiavoing them?

and it does not serve us well to close our eyes to the realities of the rest of the world.

You are exactly right. We are finally opening our eyes to the threat of a global Caliphate and doing something about it, instead of timidly feeding the Islamic monster and begging it to devour us last, like the French. Maybe they're hoping the Germans will go batshit again, invade, and annihilate Muslims as if they were Jews. Then France can assume the position they've become so accustomed to, kneeling while tonguewashing jackboots.

paul, excellent point. Notice the moonbat says "any French citizen who qualifies for college has a right to higher education" but fails to quantify how many 'qualify'. He knows, of course, he just didn't want to say because it weakens his argument. A lot.

P.S. I have to admit to having a certain amount of sympathy for you since I've learned the pool boy is porking Ms. Michael

Her name is Cathy, and we haven 't had a pool since we left Texas.

So, regarding Cedarford, the guy is:

1. Demented.

2. Well informed.

3. Brilliant.

4. Hilarious.

What's not to like?

RE: Bill

Cripes, what a downer.

The unemployement rate, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the agency that actually, you know, calculates this sort of thing is 5.0 percent.

My wife and I just bought a house. Our interest rate? 5.8 percent.

The economy grew at 3.4 percent in the last quarter.

The deficit number may be high, but the important number, often ignored, is the deficit as a percentage of GDP, which is 4.2 percent. Still a bit high for my conservative tastes, but not the highest it's ever been, either.

And the best way to stop that deficit? Well, it's certainly not to engage in massive spending programs, like those of the French.

Actually, I got Batten's number a standard middle class American liberal who's been to college when he used as one of his arguments the alleged "facts" about how students are accepted into university in France. Most tellingly, he displays an almost total ignorance of the French school system. For one thing, only the top students are set to the equivalent of high school (lycée), at age fifteen, there to study for the Baccalaureate. These are the students who will, if they make it, go into the university system. The rest are sent to vocational schools and/or apprenticeships. It's a much more rigid system and the courses of study are much heavier.

All I had to do was enter "French school system" into Google and I got this site, which gives a good overview of their school system; I'd learned a bit about it in high school when I took French, but that was (mumble) years ago. Though it may be too difficult for simplistic liberals like Mr. Batten to understand the subtle yet important differences between our school system and theirs. The French can afford to pay for students to go to university because fewer do. I actually think this is better than giving everyone the delusion that they are academic material; I am of the opinion that at least three-quarters of the students in American colleges today don't belong there, and would have been much happier going to vocational school, learning a trade via apprenticeships, or for the little lost girls now getting drunk and hooking up in coed dorms -- gasp -- getting married out of high school and becoming house wives.

...the little lost girls now getting drunk and hooking up in coed dorms -- gasp --

Talk like that just breaks my heart. If there's one thing... wait a sec, I'm getting choked up... ONE THING I'm going to do before my life is over, it's try and give a little something BACK to this wonderful society of ours.

And what a great place to start- mentoring those poor, misguided, lost souls, those confused young adults, who need the gentle, yet firm touch of a mature, guiding hand, to set them on the right path.

By God, I think I've really stumbled onto something.

Paul Krugman is a Giant Ewok.

While we're bashing France, might as well note that many French minorities (especially Africans and muslims) have almost no upwards mobility. They simply don't get a chance. France is a very racist society.

I am probably one of the top six or seven economists currently on the planet, so when I say I'm one of the top six or seven economists currently on the planet, you'd better f'ing believe it, because I'M ONE OF THE TOP SIX OR SEVEN ECONOMISTS CURRENTLY ON THE PLANET!

No more questions. You are all dismissed.

Hey, Batten,

Your uninformed boilerplate leads me to believe that while you have travelled to France, you have:

a) never been outside Paris
b) don't personally know any Frenchmen outside your "work" or the person who hands you your hotel room key
c) have never suffered through the healthcare horror that is "La Secu"
d) have never even talked to a non-European Frenchman, and therefore cannot possibly understand the daily racism, condescension and abuse that French North Africans or, God help them, sub-Saharan Africans have to suffer through on a daily basis.

Paris is a nice city to visit, but France is a shithole of a country, primarily due to their overbearing unrepresentative government and insufferable cultural self-righteousness.

"Paris is a nice city to visit"

You lie.

"Paris is a nice city to visit"

No, seriously. As long as you treat it as Americans traditionally do: like a Six Flags with some interesting history, only with unjustifiably snotty, funny-smelling help.

I am of the opinion that at least three-quarters of the students in American colleges today don't belong there

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't quite understand the obsession that we have with everyone getting a college education. First, if everyone has one, the degree becomes meaningless. Second, if primary and secondary educational institutions were serving their purpose, college would be less necessary for most people. The number of remedial courses that universities (esp. state universities) offer these days is just pathetic. Third, about half the available degrees are pointless drivel. Women's studies? Give me a break. An "academic" program designed to complain about the fact that there are not enough women in prominent levels of society, while teaching the female students nothing of value that could be used to obtain a prominent position in society. Fourth, grade inflation has rendered GPA's meaningless, so that someone who barely slides by is placed on par with someone who works their ass off.

And not that it isn't fun, but 4 or more years of work experience is probably more valuable than spending that same amount of time getting hammered at frat parties and barely sliding by academically.

Why we as society believe we need more sorority girls with psychology degrees is beyond me.

"Her name is Cathy, and we haven 't had a pool since we left Texas."

And the pool boy lives where now? It really is a small world after all!

My sister and I are among the first generation of our family to ever get a college education. We paid our own way, alternating working and going to school. Takes a long time that way.

I went to a state school; most of my time in class was spent catatonic in the back row while people who didn't belong there asked interminable DUMBASS questions.

I am still positive that if I had worked fulltime right out of high school I'd be better off today, than wasting all those years at college.

Round up:

1. The French have not won a battle since Napoleon or a war since Charlemagne.

At the same time they think they are the most wonderful people in the world because they figured out how to torture geese to make their livers bigger.

Result - asshats of the universe.

2. I was Michael's pool guy and let me tell you Mrs. Michael is surprisingly hot.

3. Cedarford is Ace's big sister.

4. Paul Krugamn is a poison dwarf whose job description is 'Remora to the Sulzbergers".

A good analysis of Paul 'Poison Dwarf' Krugman:

http://www.analphilosopher.com/posts/1124316912.shtml

Another analysis of the Poison Troll's latest column:

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/011364.php

Highlight:

"There are many arguments, pro and con, relating to Social Security reform. But Krugman makes none of them. On this topic, as on so many others, he is so twisted by his obsessive hatred of President Bush that he cannot state facts accurately or argue fairly. Thus, he can only mislead those who take him seriously. If there are any such people left." (emphasis added).

The French also have rights we do not have.

They also lack a lot of rights that Americans take for granted - like the right not to be asked for an ID card for simply walking down the street, or the right not to have to keep stepping in dog poop.

They have the right to healthcare

Hmmm Free Health Care! Guess what, you get what you pay for. And as someone raised in Canada (but presently on the lam) let me tekk you - free health care sucks. My HMO here in the 'States is better in almost every way - and HMOs aint's no paradise.

and any French citizen who qualifies for college has a right to higher education.

Acually kind of admire this. Of course, since university entry is pure merit, there would be a lot less black and hispanics allowed in. Just like in France the unis tend to be very white.

The French don't complain about taxes either

Yes they do - and they evade them WAY more than Americans or Brits. Do you actually know and French people?

and are mostly proud of their government.

True. Which, to any lover of liberty is kind of sick. Actually, to be fair, the French are actually pretty good at civil service stuff (like good schools, thorough airport security etc) -but thet trade-off is a lack of entreprenurial spirit. In economic terms, they have traded liberty for security - but now the bill is coming due end soon they shall have neither.

Krugman, a Princeton University professor, understands much more about life in Europe than any of the people posting here as evidenced by their posts.

Just because I don't get $50k checks from Enron (damnit) doesn't make me unaware.

He knows that there are wealthy people in France and large, successful corporations.

Sure, there are some (old money) rich folks and some big companies. But how many start-ups are there? Krugman, amazing economist that he is should also know that it is small businesses that provide most of the job growth these days (though some become large businesses) - America is MUCH better at this, because the US social and economic system encourage it.

The most important difference between our system and the rest of the industrialized world is that we give our corporations unprecidented power that they don't have anywhere else.

Riiiiiigt - instead the Euros give all that power to the governments, 'cause that's so much better. So please explain to me, if this "corps with power" is a US phenomenon how it is that Total basically sets foreign policy or the power that Zaibatsu execise over the Japanese gov't through MITI. Since France has fewer big corps, each one individually exercises far MORE power than their American counterparts, and many of them are essentially monopolies within France - no power there huh?

This corporate power is the source of almost all of our problems.

Really, I though t that it was douchebag lefties like you with a BA in BS that cause most of the problems.

Every year there are more people owning homes regardless of the administration.

True - because even the occasional Dem Admin cannot totally wreck the superior US system.

The true unemployment number is more like 7.5%, not 5%.

Does that mean that the French rate is really 15% - do we just multiply all numbers by 1.5? Hey look - I'm 9 feet tall with a 14 inch.....cough

Anyway, you may be right that unemployment figures to tend to have a structural defect in that they leave out at least some of the "give up hopes" - but I have no doubt that this problem is the same or worse in Europe, and since they have a much more generous social safety net, I'd bet on worse.

The deficit is greater than it's ever been and even the government doesn't say it will drop by $100 B per year, so I don't know where you got that one.

Actually last year was the high water mark. It's too damn high, but as a % of GNP, the most important method of comparison, it's a lot better than France or Germany (or anyone else except the other Anglo countries). The deficit is going to be about 80 to 100 billion less than predicted this year thanks to economic growth. We need to cut the pork spending and get it down further faster, but the Euro states are all going in the exact opposite direction.

We are now the largest debtor nation in the world.

And have the biggest economy, and military, and civil airline fleet, etc, etc. The USA is damn big and so is the debt.

We now pay twice the average per capita for healthcare than the average paid by the rest of the industrialized world even though our system is rated towards the middle or bottom on most indicators.

Yup, becuause it is a for-profit system. America also does the bulk of medical and pharmaeutical pioneering for the entire world. Americans pay high drug prices, which allows new drugs to be developed while the rest of the world just free-rides along. And don't foget all the Med-Mal tort lawyers, you know, the ones that basically fund the Dems. There's a big cost right there.

As far as R&D goes, where have you been. There's been much written on our national "brain drain" in areas like genetic research, medical research and even space research.

I guess I don't read what you read. I read about India, Canada, Australia and others complaing about the brain drain TO the US.

Japan has eaten our lunch again with hybrids because Detroit was too mired in oil politics to understand what was going to happen.

Largely because we working on fuel cell technology - reaching for the brass ring, which is the American way, not taking the 30% solution, which is what hybrids are.

I'm not even convinced that hybrids are a 30% solution. The savings in gas, as of right now, does not overcome the cost of purchcasing one unless you do a ridiculous amount of driving, so there's little incentive for most people to buy one. And unless people start buying them, the price won't come down.

Ironically, the hybrid model with the best cost-benefit ratio is, from what I've heard, the Ford Escape hybrid, which is only a couple thousand more than the non-hybrid model. So the extent to which the Japanese have "eaten our lunch" when it comes to hybrids is questionable. Sure, they got them out first, but I don't see many on the roads, and I live in a university town where I would expect them to be quite common.

Not to mention that hybrids have safety problems as a result of the number batteries required to operate them.

nice fisking, holdfast. I know it seems like we're talking to ourselves sometimes but I'm pretty sure many moonbats drop in here without commenting so its good to give them some actual facts.

Good job holdfast. I got tired of feeding the troll yesterday, and did'nt get around to doing a similar fisking. When they pull out silly shit like R&D in the US being inferior to other countries...you just don't know where to start. They really hate it when you remind them that the Internet is a direct result of DARPA. Well, before Al Gore came along anyway.

I think the larger point is that Krugman slices and dices the differences between recent French life and recent US life as if there was a choice. This assumes that both are sustainable when it's clear that the French safety net and other gov't services cannot be maintained indefinitely with slow/no growth and 10% unemployment.

France and Germany are both houses of cards, hanging by threads. Every year their future prospects get worse. The real fun starts if interest rates ever start rising again.

There will be massive riots in the streets, utility outages, army shootings, etc.

I just hope our tax dollars don't go towards bailing those fucks out.

I posted my round-up because I thought this thread was dead - and then comes holdfast with a great reply to mr batten. Thanks

A few fun French facts -

1. 40% of people living in France under the age of 14 are Muslim. Demographic suicde anyone?

2. 60% of France's jail population is Muslim.

3. France's 25 largest companies were all started more than 40 years ago. Somewhere around 14 of the United States' 25 largest companies (perhaps as many as 20) were founded within the last 40 years.

Anyone who compares France favorably to the United States or says the United States should emulate the French is either (i) French or (ii) Quisling.

France's 25 largest companies were all started more than 40 years ago. Somewhere around 14 of the United States' 25 largest companies (perhaps as many as 20) were founded within the last 40 years.

I work for an American corporation that is part of the Dow Jones Industrial Index and has been in existence for more than a century. And I get that we are an anomaly. It's not been easy. The changes over the last 25 years have been wrenching. But we have adapted, and I don't think it would have happened if we were not American. Actually, I don't it would have happened if we were not Texan.

That's why I still have a job I love.

That, and all those crisp, clean Benjamin Franklins you put in the Xmas card to the boss every year...

Dogstar:

Well, yeah. Plus, our pool boy is actually the son of a corporate officer, and he really takes a shine to Mrs. Michael.

Life is full of compromises.

Well.
I won't say it.
Let's just say it rhymes with 'Inky Starships."

Let's just say it rhymes with 'Inky Starships

Laura, you have totally lost me. Either I'm drunk or the reference is too arcane.

I'm sure somebody will be along soon to help you out.
Have I told you lately that I love you?
No?
OK, nevermind.

nky binky starship went up the black hole spout

My turn to fisk Bill's drivel.
"Dogstar, that was a pleasing picture you painted, but it's straight out of Repub talking points 101. Every year there are more people owning homes regardless of the administration."

Nice diversion. The subject was not the administration, but your statement about America's problems. Typical liberl; you make a stupid statement, get busted, and start zig-zagging.

" This has always been the case. The true unemployment number is more like 7.5%, not 5%."

And the true unemployment numbers in France are more likely around 12-14%, not to mention the fact that government employees constitute roughly 35% of the GDP, so the few people who actually do productive work for a living have to support a large number who don't.

" The deficit is greater than it's ever been and even the government doesn't say it will drop by $100 B per year, so I don't know where you got that one."

And our productivity is greater than it's ever been. You can't measure a 2005 deficit in 1985 dollars, although liberals, always desperate to tell a lie, will do so anyway.

" We are now the largest debtor nation in the world."

Which is itself an essentially meaningless fact. According to liberal economics 101, we should have all starved to death 20 years ago.

" We now pay twice the average per capita for healthcare than the average paid by the rest of the industrialized world..."

And we have more doctors, hospitals, clinics, etc, per capita.

"... even though our system is rated towards the middle or bottom on most indicators."

What system, and whose indicators? Our "system" is nothing of the sort, but rather an economic market that provides services for a price. To call the collective medical profession a system is like calling all the trucking companies in America a system; it's a lie.
The fact is that I can get any emergency treatment I need within the afternoon, and non-emergency treatment within the week. Liberals know this, they're just too dishonest to admit it. If it's so terrible, move to Canada.

" As far as R&D goes, where have you been.
There's been much written on our national "brain drain" in areas like genetic research, medical research and even space research. Japan has eaten our lunch again with hybrids because Detroit was too mired in oil politics to understand what was going to happen. Now, everyone wants a Prius. Where have you been?"

Again, unable to actually rebut an assertion, the lying liberal makes a few snide remarks and sits back with a smirk as if he's just delivered the unified theory of physics in a haiku. America leads the world in alternate energy research, but it's mostly done privately, mostly in secret, and without fanfare. The Prius is a result of American technology put into production by a Japanese company which happens to devote more to R&D than any other car company because it has to. Japan's market dynamics are simply a concentrated microcosm of America's.

I wish to hell that all these liberal morons would just freaking move to Frogistan or Canukistan if they just can't bear it here any longer, but then, they'd have to practice what they preach, and that, as we know, is patently out of the question.

90% of you are just a bunch of misinformed/uneducated morons. It's actually funny to read. Remind me of 'One
Flew Over Cuckoo's Nest'.

What you know of France is only what your TV taught you. France and the rest of the world doesn't need the advice of a country led by an idiot who already spent the amount spent for the apollo program to wage war for no reason (but to bring total chaos in an already weak country that was no threat) and still make jokes of it: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=27906

So please, keep watching 'lost' and the 'super bowl' while eating domino's pizzas and let the rest of the world busying itself researching genetics (south korea), making softwares (India), making modern airplanes (France-Germany), and making fuel efficient cars (Japan).

to wage war for no reason (but to bring total chaos in an already weak country that was no threat)

Obviously you haven't a clue. Look here and here and here.

So please, keep watching 'lost' and the 'super bowl' while eating domino's pizzas and let the rest of the world busying itself researching genetics (south korea), making softwares (India), making modern airplanes (France-Germany), and making fuel efficient cars (Japan

Let's see, who mapped the human genome, oh an American, where is the largest software manufacturers again?? Heh, would that be Microsoft and Apple?? Chipmaker?? Would that be Intel. I didn';t know that they were HQ in India.. I guess the world's largest aircraft manufacturer (Boeing - NOT Air France) doesn't count. Don't know where to start on the Automobile thing - from invention to mass production to intermittent wipers to front wheel drive to automatic transmissions, etc. etc. etc. were all the results of good ol' American ingenuity and the free market.

An echo is exactly what you are. Go get a clue and quit parroting the moonbat talking points.

Improbulus Maximus seems to be saying that I cannot rebut an assertion. Let me just point out, Maximus, that calling someone a liar is actually not a rebuttal of their argument. All you seem to be able to argue on our losing place in the world of R&D is that we evidently have a "secret" privately-run alternative energy program going on and we actually invented the Prius technology. Hey, that's great, but I think Toyota is going to make all that Prius money. As far as healthcare goes, the WHO rates all industrialized nations on scores of indicators ranging from things like infant mortality rates, average waiting period for different types of procedures, life expectancy, etc. In the latest survey, the USA is number one in only one catagory: cost of healthcare per capita. Go ahead and call the fact that we're the worlds largest debtor nation "meaningless." It just shows you don't understand what's going on here. I believe the problem is that many conservatives have accepted the administration's numbers. The GDP, for example is more a reflection of astronomical corporate profits than any measure of well-being in the American public. The only thing good about the Bush economy is corporate profits, and since wages haven't gone up with profits, it's clear that this indicator doesn't do anything for the average American. Finally, in answer to your last and most moronic point, let me point out that it is conservatives who have not been practicing what they preach. Record deficit spending, huge increases in discretionary spending, ethics problems in congress, reckless foreign policy, reckless monetary policy, wars with no competent planning or execution, unprecidented growth in the size of government, government getting into your private business, etc. etc. That doesn't sound like what conservatives have been preaching for the last three decades.

Getting back to the original point of this thread, let me just add that no citizen of any other industrialized society on this planet worries about going bankrupt over medical bills. That fear is uniquely American and it's the result of the fact that we don't have a right to healthcare like everybody else does. RLS, I agree with just about everything you said there, but I'm not sure the American worker is benefiting from any American innovation anymore. You mentioned the invention of mass production -- that's a case-in-point; Henry Ford's brainstorm was to pay his factory workers enough so they could afford the cars. His vision of a corporation was something that was part of a community and owed something to the community.

Wow, you "republi-cons" seem to have a rather incumbent chip on your shoulders for people who go to college to try and better themselves. I absolutely abhore that comment that one third of all of the students who are currently enrolled in college would be better off entering a trade tech. I absolutely disagree with this fallicous notion; most people that I see at my university actually benefit from their educational experience "whether they are at the top of the class, or at the bottom of the class!" I will condede to the fact that not everyone in the world can be a genius "which probably excludes me, as well as most of the people who post comments on this message board, but, everyone can benefit from an education. What I surmise from my vast dealings with these "republi-con" types is that they despise people who have an educational level higher than your average "beer-gut-television-watching-hillbilly-type" because it makes it inherently harder to "brain wash" them into believing the rethorical lies that their party leaders spew at the American populace on a daily basis. For example, do you think a sheep would just stand there and wait to be slaughtered if it had any common sense what-so-ever? Now, taking into consideration the fact that our "great" public education system doesn't even teach children about wall street, political lobbyists, monopolies (and yes, the government is a monopoly; because of the many "barriers to entry") and exactly how the congress and exectuive branches work; coupled with a watered down and utterly dellusional recollection of American history! It's no wonder these republican "slime bags" are opposed to higher education for the "common American!" With knowing this, we can then pinpoint where most of their anger and frustration come from. The problem is that most people are not geniuses "only 4 percent of the worlds populace falls under the genius category" so not every student is going to discover the next mathematical equation, but most doctors are not surgeons, and most people who teach at universities are not especially gifted. Yet, they are vital to our nation, and they make galliant contributions to our society. On this note I will have to part ways, but I will leave you with one piece of information "food for thought" most of the primary medical discoveries with respect to the "human body" or "cellular physiology" have been made in europe. Remember the names of the cells? Nodes of Ranvier, nissl bodies, meissners corpuscle, pacinian corpuscle, perforating vulkman's canals, harvasian system (Haversian Ha*ver"sian\ a. Pertaining to, or discovered by, Clopton Havers, an English physician of the seventeenth century). So, before you run you rmouth about the latest discoveries; such as DNA and the human genome project; which were most likely discovered by Russian, German, and Indan scientists who are empolyed by american companies, take a long look at where the science field originated. Also remember who discovered algebra and trigonometry "mohommad" the muslims, and Physics was discovered by, Sir Isaac Newton! You jackasses republicans, you simply will not concede to the facts, poor little whiney babies.

Ozz, what university do you attend?

The education system in Canada seems to be poor.

You don't have a single coherent sentence in your entire rant.

Well, it's nice to know that your average simple-minded, uneducated "republica nvoter" can resort to childish "ad hominem" attacks when they do not have sufficient support to back up their premises.

Oh, what a tangled web we weeve when first we conservatives begin to deceive!?

Ozz, I haven't even begun to attack you.

You just gave a long, boring, incomprehensible on the importance of education, and now you are upset at me for pointing out that you are imbecile that has no business lecturing anyone about anything.

You're stupid, bro. Sorry, but it's true. You came barging in here slinging insults and making outlandish claims.

For instance:
republican "slime bags"
most of the primary medical discoveries with respect to the "human body" or "cellular physiology" have been made in europe

I'm only trying to help you, Ozzz, not make a fool out of yourself. Again I ask you, what university do you attend?

Tell me and I will gladly do everything in my power to get you a refund and a written apology from the teachers.

Woops, that's supposed to be incomprehensible "speech."

Ozzz, your ineptness is rubbing off on me.