Liberals have far too much of their self-worth deriving from the fact that they are liberal.

That's for sure. I like to challenge them on how much they have given to charity and how much volunteer work they have done/are doing. I kick their ass each and every time.

Damn! ACE is on fire, on FUCKING FIRE!!!

I COMPLETELY agree. Someone tried to talk to me about politics a while back, but when he said he didn't think the NYT was biased (WTF??) I KNEW the conversation was a bust...but I couldn't get him to knock it off until I got offensive.

And "The Life Aquatic" was TERRIBLE.

Later,
bbeck

"teachable moments." What the fuck does that mean?

The only "teachable moment" I'm interested in is slapping the living shit out of a Liberal!

The Teachable Moment Prayer

God, grant me the serenity to accept those Liberals that I won't have "teachable moments" with,

The Courage to have "teachable moments" with those that I can,

And the Wisdom to know the difference.

One particularly brain-dead liberal is Eric Alterman, who has a blog on MSNBC.com. Some guy named Siva V...... (twenty random letters follow) subs for him from time to time. After reading Siva's hilariously out-of-touch-with-reality rants for several months, I decided to start commenting on his blog.

It's so much fun to deconstruct every single one of his fact-challenged posts, and I look forward to skewering everything he has to say for a long, long time.

The funny thing is- the inevitable response after I show them how wrong they are is something like this... "so what? Bush = Hitler!"

In other words, facts are immaterial.

http://www.nyu.edu/classes/siva/

Ace, Ace, Ace... Bill Moyers is NOT a higher anything. You don't know the history of Bill Moyers, haven't studied Bill Moyers like I have. Do you know they're prescribing Bill Moyers now to 3, 4, 5 year olds.. without any.. any scientific understanding of what large quantities of Bill Moyers can do in a body?

You're gilb. You talk about Bill Moyers and you don't know. You don't even know.

Ray,

That was priceless.

Ace,

On the money as usual. I have a friend who was once a reasonable, conservative Democrat. We used to have good natured arguments about politics over beer, and I always came away thinking that my ideas had been rigorously challenged. Occasionally he changed my mind about things. I liked to think I changed his, too, but given his recent conversion, I doubt it.

After the 2004 election, this guy just jumped off the cliff with the rest of the moonbats with his whole Bush Lied People Died schtick. Now he repeats the same idiotic canards endlessly while forgetting that he originally supported the war in Iraq.

Well, I just don't bother with arguing with the guy. We're still friends, so I figure it just isn't worth it. We'd just end up pissing each other off.

But he can't let it go. He follows me around work bugging me about how we need to get a beer and talk politics. I usually respond with something like, "Ahh. What's the point? Neither of us is going to change his mind." Yet, he endlessly persists.

I guess he thinks that if I'd just be more open-minded and LISTEN to him, that I would see the error of my ways.

Dude, I roomed with Siva in college (Texas). He was pretty much my best friend there.

He was a centrist Democrat back then. Looks like the echo chamber of NYU has kinda gotten to him. Or maybe the anti-intellectual charnel house of Houston has gotten to me.

Anyway, I know that my lib friends and family members have two distinct (and to my mind, incompatible) thoughts when it comes to teaching moments:

One, that if they just explain things, that the Truth will win out

Two, that the vast majority of Americans are complete fucking morons who shouldn't be allowed to vote because of, like, TV and Christians and stuff.

The latter view is the one that comes out when they've been drinking and their inhibitions have been slightly lowered.

On f'n fire, Ace....

Good one.

Conservatives don't usually want to discuss politics with those who disagree...

So you only like discussing politics with people who agree with you? I'm not quite sure how this is a good thing, but it sure explains a lot... like why most conservative blogs don't allow comments.

Teacup, you have to be kidding.

Try dissenting over there at DU Underground and see how fast you get banned.

Ace's point, I believe, is it makes little sense to argue with someone who's position is already entrenched because you aren't likely to accomplish anything.

So you only like discussing politics with people who agree with you?

NO, Genius, conservatives don't like discussing politics in person PERIOD. They realize that there are a great number of other more interesting things that can be discussed, even with a liberal.

And why don't conservative blogs allow comments? 2 reasons:

1. We already know what liberals who drop by will say, and it's ALWAYS stupid

2. Bloggers pay for their own web space, so why pay for anonymous wankers you don't know or care about to post crap?

I don't know if that's what your site said, but that's why. Hope that clears up the mystery for you.

Later,
bbeck

...don't like discussing *anything* with filk whose 'opinions' are based on emotional positions and for whom the suggestion of actual facts is merely obstructionist behavior they believe we must get over. ZZZzzzz.

Ace = On. Freakin'. Fire.

I should have been more clear-- I'm usually adverse to talking politics in social situations. Especially with people I know I disagree with. Unless they're especially affable and self-deprecating and funny, which a couple of liberals, here and there, are.

My father instructed me as a tender youth of 13 that gentlemen don't talk about religion, politics, or money when socializing (and of course discussions of sex were relegated to the proverbial locker room). These have always been volatile subjects; best avoided if one wishes to preserve amity amongst one's acquaintances.

In modern times his advice may seem dated, but given the increasing levels of hostility in the dialogue between the left and the right, I'm left feeling that we've lost essential and fundamental wisdom that was second nature to those born in a more genteel time.

The internet is the perfect place to discuss politics. Face-to-face just isn't any good. People almost never change their minds, until they absorb a critical mass of credible information that tips the scales and makes them realize the other side is right.

And that will never happen in a face-to-face environment, because you have to take breaks to do research and think about stuff.

When you're in a bar or at a party, how the hell do you know if what the other person is saying is true or not? You don't. But here on the net, you can open another window, google a subject, read five different sources, etc.

Let me be the first second third fourth - to say You're on F'n Fire!!!

Don't apologize for liberal-baitin.' You're on target (and on fire), so why stop? It's not like the liberal claptrap from the MSM ever stops.

The anonymous post above nailed it. People used to know not to discuss religion, politics, or money in poltie company. You just didn't do it. Usually conservatives don't, but liberals just can't shut up about it.

The only real difference that I've seen between political discussions with one of my LLL friends and with one of our local Baptists is that the Baptist will stop prostelazing (?) if you tell him/her that you're not interested. Ace, what we are seeing here are not "teachable moments" but forced prostelization for the new god.

Wow, that made me laugh out loud at my desk and made me want to copy and send to the one person who doesn't agree with my politics but with whom I will discuss them.

Absolutely dead on, if you are here in NYC or visit I would be happy to buy you a beverage of your choice.

"But dang-- when a liberal finds out you're not a liberal... most really, really want to talk their way through this massive problem in the relationship. "

Yeah, they feel that way with me for about 5 minutes, until I use facts, logic and common sense. I then find them not so keen on "enlightening" me. Perhaps they feel they will catch something.

Oh, and you know what is the most consistent thing I see? They have no real sense of actual history. They certainly know days and dates of American imfamy, but their grasp of wider history and current events is usually shockingly poor.

I want to understand you.

UGH.
Yes. Dead-on.

"I think you are an intelligent person who has been hoodwinked by Bush, the idiot chimp. I want to understand how it is that you came to be totally wrong about everything."

Just tell them you are apolitical, or tell them you used to be a hippy but got hit on the head one day, and boom! Woke up Republican. Must have been the thump on the ol' noggin. Dain Bramage.

Tell them anything, since they won't believe the truth (that you rationally thought things over and came to a different conclusion than they did).

"Mr. Big-Shot" has no time to call back anymore.

You should really be more like Cousin Efram.

Your Cousin Efram is a bum! You should be more like your cousin Yankel who owns a shoe store in Flushing!

Shalom from Florida

I'm as hyper-political as they come. Most of what I blog about is political. And yet, the only time I get in a political argument with someone from the other side of the aisle is when they start it. Of course, I then usually proceed to mop the floor with them, because liberals' need to proselytise is usually unmatched by anything as jejune as, say, a sound grasp of the facts. The last bit of simple-minded nitwittery I had to fend off was the idea that the reason oil is at $60 a bbl is because we invaded Iraq. The explanation that a) Chinese demand b) lack of refinery capacity and c) OPEC's need to bolster its non-US buying power from sale of a commodity priced in weak dollars had more to do with it was met with blank incomprehension.

Teacup, you have to be kidding.

Yeah, its a cheap shot, but its not my fault, all my opinions are based on emotions, not facts. Also, secular humanism and nature worship.

I can see there is a broad spectrum of opinion on this issue. Some believe that conservativism has been proven objectively with facts. People with other opinions are quaint, ignorant and possibly dangerous individuals who are politely tolerated. I suppose an opposition party, and indeed, democracy itself is but a mere formality. I thank these people for their graciousness and good will.

Others say that allowing comments on blogs would only drive up traffic and increase ad revenue for bloggers who pay for hosting... which would be a bad thing, somehow? At any rate, we already know what liberals will say: stupid things. But others have refined their statements, saying that political disagreement is appropriate online but not in social situations, and I appreciate the clarification. I just want to understand you! I will weigh all of these opinions, and try to decide which feel good and which feel bad. Or not, because there's no objective truth, its all relative.