Dont forget about the Lovecraftian stone carvings Ace.

Either Rove's pad will have carvings of some Whale-like overlord, which will confuse and confound anthropologists for decades, or his gray-green walls will lack any sort of relief at all, further confounding anthropologists for decades.

Sucks to be an anthropologist in either event.

I'm sorry..you were saying something about the excitable one???

"Sure, there were some on the hard left who really did jump to blame America for the evil perpetrated by the monsters of 9/11. I took names at the time."

Isn't that exactly what Rove said?

As I've said before:

When speaking of any group with an agenda, advocates, leaders and followers it is appropriate to refer to the group regardless of some who might claim the label yet disagree with portions of the agenda.

Some in the communist party simply wanted to be safer and have better stuff. That doesn't make it wrong to claim the communists wanted to spread communism worldwide.

The broad brush whining reminds me of Muslims who complain loudly about bias but say nothing critical of actions and support for Islamic terror. If liberals can't bring themselves to criticise their own, let them shut up when others say what needs to be said.

Its the hyperventilating that's getting to me right now. The utter and total lack of perspective.

The way the most absurd exaggerations are bandied about. Things that take two seconds to say but ten minutes to explain all the ways its WRONG.

Its enough to make me hysterical.

Are Freidman. the Washington Post and most Democrats in Congress now conceding that they wear the liberal label?

"Its enough to make me hysterical."

Uh-oh. I think we need a Lauraw Freak-Out Advisory system.

"Isn't that exactly what Rove said?"

No, and if he had it would have still been inaccurate. It would have been much closer to what he supposedly (yeah right) meant. Why didn't he just refer to the main org he was supposedly meaning? Why didn't he say "hard leftists, like MoveOn.org" rather than just getting VERY general and saying liberals? He a political game player. It was intentional to continue in the attempts to demonize the moniker liberal.

It was intentional to continue in the attempts to demonize the moniker liberal.

You think Rove, or anybody else for that matter, needs to help this "demonization" along? "Liberals" have done quite a job themselves, thank you very much.

MoN;

Thats the sort of vile and offensive attack that serves as an indication of some level of panic on your part.
I am APPALLED by this outburst.

And Losing Faith, I am sure that a member of Chimpy Bulshitler's administration would never, ever, demonize the monkier 'liberal.'

lauraw

Is APPALLED higher or lower than hysterical?

Rove's description applies pretty well to the handful of people who actually call themselves liberals. If all those soi-disant "moderates" want to claim that the shoe fits, that's their lookout.

Higher than hysterical but just beneath bedwetting.

As always Ace, I appreciate the Lovecraft imagery. It. . . speaks to me.

As for Sully, here's what I don't get: Joe Lieberman? Hitch? Tom Friedman? These are liberals in Sully's eyes? Yeah, I know Hitch says he is, but when it comes to the war, he most certainly is not, and under no circumstances can Senator Fudd and Tom "Ask me about Indian call centers!" Friedman possibly be labeled as liberals.

Shit, either Sully is the worst political analyst this side of Howard Dean, or else he just decided to react exactly like how every Democrat reacted to Rove's comments: chose to listen to what they wanted to hear, and not what was actually said.

Again, let me reiterate: this was Rove's "Sphincter says what?" moment, and all the Democrats-- so eager to avoid being labeled liberals during election cycles-- stood up and said "What?"

Now you see, evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

either Sully is the worst political analyst this side of Howard Dean

DING! We have a winner!

I am totally with Michael Totten. YOu winguts will lose my votes if you keep harping on Sully. We will vote for Democrats in 2006 unless you stop with your Rovian talking points.

Kind of OT, but tacking this onto the 'hysterical' meme;

Friday or Saturday some douche on Fox mentioned how prisoners at GTMO were allowed to urinate and defecate on themselves while being restrained, and how that was beyond the pale, as if it was torture.

Pissing yourself is uncomfortable and humiliating, but it is NOT torture or permanently damaging in any way. I think I speak for many when I say that I would do it upon command if it meant I'd escape actual torture by doing so.

This is one way to impress upon someone, in a HUMANE way that leaves his bones unbroken and his testicles un-electrified, that he is dependent upon the interrogator for the most basic of needs. To strip away his shell without actually hurting him.

And after he spills, he can go live in the nice bunks and get twinkies and lemon chicken and get over his embarrassment at spilling the beans without actually having been tortured.

How in the world did we get to this state of affairs?

Like June would ever vote for a wingnut candidate. You can tell June's a Democrat because she refers to her votes.

You know, plural. Don't make me explain it.

Losing Faith - Why didn't he say "hard leftists, like MoveOn.org" rather than just getting VERY general and saying liberals? He a political game player. It was intentional to continue in the attempts to demonize the moniker liberal.

Um, he did. The media just didn't report that part of the speech. Here's what he said:

But perhaps the most important difference between conservatives and liberals can be found in the area of national security. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. In the wake of 9/11, conservatives believed it was time to unleash the might and power of the United States military against the Taliban; in the wake of 9/11, liberals believed it was time to… submit a petition. I am not joking. Submitting a petition is precisely what Moveon.org did. It was a petition imploring the powers that be" to "use moderation and restraint in responding to the… terrorist attacks against the United States."

Moderation and restraint is not what I felt - and moderation and restraint is not what was called for. It was a moment to summon our national will - and to brandish steel. MoveOn.Org, Michael Moore and Howard Dean may not have agreed with this, but the American people did. Conservatives saw what happened to us on 9/11 and said: we will defeat our enemies. Liberals saw what happened to us and said: we must understand our enemies. Conservatives see the United States as a great nation engaged in a noble cause; liberals see the United States and they see … Nazi concentration camps, Soviet gulags, and the killing fields of Cambodia.

Shocking, I know.

I'm curious to know where "snapping a Z" fits into the advisory myself.

And I do love the t-shirt that says, "Cthulu for President: when you're tired of voting for the Lesser Evil"

Later,
bbeck

The problem -- not with Sully, who has too many to count -- is that there are no liberal "liberals" on the left any more. Well, maybe three. The rest follow a most illiberal creed, which makes things confusing.

But if we take Rove's statement to be in line with the common usage of "liberal" = what Howard Dean called "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party", what Rove said is entirely correct.

We need to do something about all this adjective inflation first before it really gets out of hand. "Hysterical" has become the new "excited" and "outraged" is this year's "upset." What are we supposed to say when we're genuinely outraged? Just start making up words?

The whole thing makes me hysterific. .

Rove used the word "liberals", not "Democrats". Lieberman and Freidman may have the (D) in front of their names but they are not liberals. The fact that they currently support our actions in Iraq might be a clue that Rove was not talking about them.

I am totally with Michael Totten. YOu winguts will lose my votes if you keep harping on Sully. We will vote for Democrats in 2006 unless you stop with your Rovian talking points.

Yeah, forget those pesky "issues." Smart people base their votes on how people treat Andrew Sullivan.

Moron.

I am totally with Michael Totten. YOu winguts will lose my votes if you keep harping on Sully. We will vote for Democrats in 2006 unless you stop with your Rovian talking points.

This post brought to you by Andrew Sullivan's "Anonymous E-mailer of the Day."

Obscure reference to Lovecraft?

I've just had another Acegasm.

You might laugh if you go here.

Or you might not.

But it is topical.

And whorish.

"I am totally with Michael Totten. YOu winguts will lose my votes if you keep harping on Sully. We will vote for Democrats in 2006 unless you stop with your Rovian talking points."

Hehehehehehh. Totten's so much smarter and above it all, isn't he?

It's amazing to me how the liberals continually fall into Karl Rove's traps with eyes wide open (supposedly) and then squeal like stuck pigs when they realize they have done themselves in. There's just no explanation other than Bush hatred has blinded them not only to the truth but to their own better interests.

      I can't help noticing that Durbin exagerates wildly about Guantanamo, and that's OK with Sully, but Rove exagerates moderately about liberals, and that's awful and immoral.



      Shows Sullivan's a true liberal: they always have believed in double standards.



THE SAUDS MUST BE DESTROYED!

Just who is the Sullivan fellow you keep going on about?

Why is it that I'm always late to the party when there are Lovecraft references? I'm beginning to think there might be something personal going on, and that they're intentionally posted to times when I'm unable to log on.

Say, isn't Abdul Al-Hazred a Gitmo detainee?

Sullivan's hysteria rises like a bloated corpse on a black, fungous river flowing under onyx bridges under a gibbous moon to an eldritch, putrescent sea.

Smile! Yog-Sothoth loves you.

"You think Rove, or anybody else for that matter, needs to help this "demonization" along? "Liberals" have done quite a job themselves, thank you very much."

Yup, more nice vague attempts to demonize. Why don't you back it up. Show us how they're so evil. Those damn liberals.

"I know this may be hard to believe, but sometimes the media doesn't always give you the complete picture."

I've read the entire transcript. I know he mentioned MoveOn in a couple different statements. Plus he throws Dean in there in one of them. I suppose he's not a DEM that should be offended by this? Is he one of those Liberal Non Dems? My earlier statement was off for a different reason than what you try and cite. "MoveOn's" petition (it was actually started by someone else that ended up merging into Move On) doesn't say anything about being easy on the 9/11 perps. It said to make sure we get the right people. How is it that it's so easy for you Rove defenders to completely forgot what it was like after 9/11. I don't remember anyone saying we shouldn't find out who did it and get them however necessary. Just go look at Bush's approval rating right before 9/11 and right after. You think the dramatic increase was all...Non Liberal Dems? This whole Liberal label is part of the problem of this debate. Who does it apply to? Who would you consider a liberal that fits in this mold of wanting to be easy on the terrorists? If his spiel was only suppose to apply Dean, Move On and Moore, why didn't he just rerstrict his examples to them? There are obviously a lot more people that consider themselves liberal than you and Rove do. How is it up to you to redefine the moniker when you're of the opposite group? Using his logic, I can easily say that all conservatives hate the military and are protesting the funerals of our fallen heroes, just becuase that loon Phelps is a conservative.