ACE – The more I thought about your censoring Moslem joke, the hotter I got and I started to compose a nuclear post. I still think it is wrong to cave into PC, even if the JAWA Report was kicked off of GOOGAL NEWS for being a “hate-site.” Fear is the very worst censor, and there is no end to it. But then I remembered your Hollywood dreams, and I guess it’s better to have Trojan Horse neo-con among the Liberals than to not have one at all. Just remember that if you become too much of a twinkie you readers really will go elsewhere.

I'm not giving into PC. But I do happen to generally support the notion that we ought to be tolerant (up to a point; tolerance ends when you begin killing people).

There are also questions of taste. I just don't find racist jokes all that funny.

Unless they're really, really good. Which yours was not.

There's a sliding scale. Like porn, offensive material has to be pretty fucking seriously good to justify its inherent obscenity.

What about Frank J? He is clearly inciting people to use nuclear weapons against the Moon, and to generally harm monkeys whenever possible.

I agree that Cafe Press hasn't done enough to unmuddy its name. I read its statement and it sounded like, "We're receiving too much shit over these products and not enough income, so we're pulling it. Had this been a huge cash cow for us then we'd be giving the one-fingered salute to all you neo-con fundie douches!"

As for the other stuff to which Malkin linked, it's all okay. I think she's undermining her statement by linking the mild stuff.

72 Raisins, not wanteing to proliferate racist jokes and racial defamation is not PC wimpery, its human decency.
What I think Ace is trying to achieve is a place where crude slander is very targeted and specific to particular individuals.

For instance;

Q: When is bedtime at Neverland ranch?

A: When the big hand is on the little hand.

See what I mean? No? Geez, you just don't get it. OK, one more demonstration.

-What's the story with those tight, short little pants Michael Jackson wears?

-Those aren't his pants.

See? Specific.

Let me give chip in with an example.

Q: Why did cedarford cross the road?

A: His dick was stuck in the chicken.

So, what, the brilliantly simple "What's an Arab" joke would be off-limits here? Pfft.

It's nice of them to make the effort, but I haven't ever shopped at CafePress and I don't plan to start now.

I only buy from the freakin' source...no third parties for me.

Now where's my t-shirt?

ACE - It is so easy to say you're not giving in to PC and that tolerance is needed. Your answer is self serving and smacks more of a rationalization than it does of truth. I've written far worse than that about Moslems in the past without one complaint and you know it. I think you're spooked by the Jawa thing, perhaps you don't want to say that but let's not sermoize and obscenity and how good it must be when we both know there has been plenty of stupid, unfunny, pointless obscenity on this website.

I've had posts pulled on other websites, you don't see me crying. Shrug and go about your business, or start your own blog and say what you want.

*ringggg* - Bob Dole's cock on line 2 for you, and he sounds pissed.

Hey, in the end it's Ace's site.

lauraw - This is not about having a post pulled and you should know that. It's about censorship by the Left and a real growing FEAR OF SPEAKING THE FUCKING TRUTH! And if you don't have anything of substance to add to this discussion mind your own fucking business.

GENEVA (Reuters) - The United Nations Commission on Human Rights called on Tuesday for combating defamation of religions, especially Islam, and condemned discrimination against Muslims in the West's war on terrorism.
The 53-member state forum adopted a resolution, presented by Pakistan on behalf of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), deploring the intensification of a "campaign of defamation" against Muslims following the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.
Western countries, including the United States and European Union (EU), voted against the text, calling it unbalanced for failing to address problems suffered by other religious groups.

Whoa...slow the indignation train.

This is about a joke being pulled from the comments section of a website and you're bringing the United Nations in?

This isn't chilling of dissent. You told a joke the owner of this website didn't like, and he removed it. Was the joke really worth it?

The 'truth' you were telling was that muslim women use a sock to absorb their menstrual flow. An important message, to be sure.

Are you fucking off your rocker?
Go take a tylenol and lie down for a while, you're all jangly and bent out of shape for no reason.

ACE - It is so easy to say you're not giving in to PC and that tolerance is needed. Your answer is self serving and smacks more of a rationalization than it does of truth. I've written far worse than that about Moslems in the past without one complaint and you know it. I think you're spooked by the Jawa thing, perhaps you don't want to say that but let's not sermoize and obscenity and how good it must be when we both know there has been plenty of stupid, unfunny, pointless obscenity on this website

I don't even know what the hell the "Jawa Thing" is. I barely read other blogs.

I don't mind obscenity. I mind crude racism.

If I didn't caution you before, it's because, I'm sorry to say, I just don't read every comment, and I read yours less than others.

But I have in fact cautioned people for all sorts of shit. I don't like, for example, Cedarford's non-ironic, non-funny use of the terms "Faggot" and "rug-muncher." I think that's just baiting and bullshit and, worse yet, not funny.

I just did a gay post. See above. And yeah, there are little stereotypes about gays, but it's not vicious sort of stuff.

Again, I employ the Saturday Night Live standard, which is sometimes kind of vague. But I just don't think that Jimmy Fallon, for example, would get on the air and tell your fairly troglodytic joke about Muslim women using a sock for a tampon.

I don't even really see the fucking point of that joke. It's not funny, it's just deliberately offensive.

This isn't chilling of dissent.

Really? As I wrote before, I've said far worse without a complaint before, and done it many, many times. Jawa looses its listing on GOOGLE News, the UN starts a campaign against "defamation" of Moslems and suddenly Moslem jokes are offensive?

If ACE wants to steer clear of potential trouble that's his business, but let's not all pretend that this isn't knuckling under to pressure.

Virgins, you're among friends. Chill.

It's a pragmatic consideration, not an ideological difference.

No need to be so absolute about everything.

Muslim jokes have always been offensive, dude.

I don't mind the sarcastic stuff about the "Religion of Peace," because that's undermining a PC cliche. Although I have to say I'm a little uncomfortable with the suggestion that it is inherently, and universally, a religion of violence.

If you notice, there's almost nothing on this site about race. I have stuff to say about race, of course, but it has to be phrased, well, a little delicately and tactfully. And most of the time I"m too lazy to do treat the topic with the necessary respect and care it deserves.

I can't just do throw-away lines about blacks being, well, whatever. Doesn't work. Not funny, just needlessly offensive, and likely to earn me the sort of trouble that a dumb unfunny joke isn't worth.

I'm coming at this from a slightly different perspective, as I have my own blog. You know, ultimately people relate what's on a blog, comments and all, to the guy or gal that runs the thing. If Ace thought your joke reflected badly on his site, regardless of what has been said in the past, he has the right to remove your comments.

It's cliche to say it, but if you're angry enough, get bloggin' and say whatever the hell you want on your site. I started blogging because I was pissed at the stupidity of social conservatives and wanted to rant about it.

Don't complain, find your inner blogger and get to it.

As for "chilling dissent"--

Dissent all you like, but this is my thing here. It's not a TV show, but you can't just say "I have the right to go on to any TV show of my choice and say whatever the hell I feel like."

The people running the show have the right to decide if what you wish to say actually comports with their own standards, their own definition of what the show is, and is not, and their own sense of what works and what does not.

So, dissent. But I have to tell you, on this point you're making the exact opposite point you would usually make. You would claim the Dixie Chicks aren't been "suppressed" just because they're boycotted, but now when it's your ox being gored you suddenly go into the Tim Robbins whine about "an ill wind of chilling dissent" and that bullshit.

Deal with it.

If I didn't caution you before, it's because, I'm sorry to say, I just don't read every comment, and I read yours less than others.

Wow, all this time you didn't notice that someone was posting stuff on your website that you didn't like? This really smacks of bullshit too.

I've made the point here many times that vulgarity must be clever to be worth posting. The joke is not the point. It's the context of all this. If you're spooked by JAWA ok, but don't try to justify all this with a bunch of baloney about standards.

I can see this is going nowhere and devolving quickly into a meaningless tit-for-tat.

My protest has been written.

Shit, now I'm all curious and shit. So, what's the punchline? Does somebody do something with the sock? Like, wear it, accidently?

Oh, wait. I get it. All the "alternate materials" were in use.

Yeah, ok. It's just not Ace-type humor.

Now, if there were some flying monkeys doing something with the socks, then maybe you could work it in.

In haiku form.

Cafe Press is like eBay. People put up items without screening and then when it is found the offering is unacceptable, the posting is taken down and the poster banned. EBay got in trouble for someone trying to sell their daughter into slavery, a guy with dead fetuses in jars of formaldyhyde for sale from some museum collection....that sort of stuff.

Cafe Press got in the shits a few years ago for a Bin Laden accessory Site. Coffee cups with his face on them, T-shirts from Muslim countries with Bin Laden pictures and Jihad sayings in Arabic on them, and best of all, Osama's face on a baby bibb. Yes, that's right, Binnie on a bibb. Cafe Press took that all down after a few days saying that it was unacceptable once they reviewed....

But what a nice baby shower gift opportunity we lost in the process for that "special" relative or co-worker!

Missed the ACE comment. Well, as I recollect Megan had just spent a whole post taunting me on my marital relations, and in an ironic fashion, I responded "How does a run-muncher like you define marital relations??"

Meaning, is Megan the pants-wearer or skirt wearer in her relationship? Who takes out the trash? Who bakes the cookies?

Why is faggot or rug-muncher any worse than cock-sucker - said to either a gay or straight person??

Well, enough on the cosmic matters of good or bad words.

Why didn't SpewFan say hello to Jack M in the bar restroom?

Ans: Because his mouth was already full, silly!