fo sho', fo sho'

Ace,

is this really tim haag on this old thread?

If so, gentlemen, we are in the company of greatness.

Well, I sent an email, saying hello, asking if there was some way for him to confirm his ID. Congratulated him on his valor, of course.

I generally assume these things are jokes. But we'll see.

And yes, I asked to interview him.

Thanks for the head's up.

Your head's up?

As much as I agree that the Repubs are big pussies, I don't think this has anything to do with them. This is a question of the will of law enforcement and the judicial system.

Yeah, I guess all you can do is hope, like I did in my own comment. That dude should never buy his own beer for the rest of his life.

But Ace, man, you're still up?

Shit, brother, get some sleep.

You gotta blog all about the Oregon gay marriage case tomorrow so's we can have another white-hot flame war.

The decision's out at 9 on the web, I'll be getting it a little after 8 by a physical pick up and scan.

Speaking of which, I need to get to bed.

Night, Ace.

btw, the shirt rawks.

Man, even back in the 90's, I don't remember any instances of the much-hyped "Clinton-haters" (and I loathed the man and his wife) calling for Slick Willie's assasination. Don't get me wrong--I'm sure there were some out there who did, but most of the rabid anti-Clinton folks were just scandal-mongers, trying to get dirt on him for fantastical tales of murders or drug trafficking.

In the past, didn't people take threats against the President's life a little more seriously? I mean, wasn't it taboo to even joke about killing the President?

I hope the Secret Service has some sort of COINTELPRO-type thing going on, because there are probably some nutters out there who are just rabid enough to try it.

Wow. My first reaction to the W-target news was, "Liberals target-shoot??" But then I RTFA and found that it has simulated holes in it and the targets are (apparently) for billposting - not shooting, I guess.

Whew. My secret comfort all these years has been that - if push came to shove - the (L)s would lose for lack of sufficient skill and firepower.

I imagine most people entartaining thoughts ultimately came to the conclusion that Clinton wasn't worth the cost of the bullet to whack him. Was there even a publicized attempt against Bill? I don't recall one.

Any president you don't agree with can be waited out - 8 years isn't all that long.

The leftoids need to recognize that all this seething hatred for Bush isn't going to win them any friends in 08'. People won't trust (literal) mouth foamers with the office of the presidency.

Don't forget how the postmodern left thinks ...

The VRWC didn't despise BJ for being despicable, they hated him for being a saint.

The 2000 election was stolen.

Bush lied and people died.

The 2004 election was stolen.

They're just fighting fire with fire don't you see.

(which looks a lot like arson if there was no fire to fight in the first place)

This, I think, is illustrative of a larger trend within the Democratic party: they no longer respect the democratic institutions of this country - they only desire the acquisition of power.

Lest you think I'm overstating the case, consider:

In 2000, Al Gore tried to litigate his way into the White House.

In 2002, some rather sketchy ballots in South Dakota kept Tim Johnson in the Senate.

In 2004, Democrats in the House and Senate attempted to disenfranchise millions of voters who cast a ballot for George W. Bush in their attempt to throw out Ohio's electoral results.

That same year, evil undead zombies or something elected Christine Gregoire to the Washington governor's office.

Now, Democrats are making jokes about offin' the president and are keeping their anger stoked with anti-Bush merchandise and by refusing to acknowledge the end of the last election. After all, how many "Kerry/Edwards" bumper stickers do you see a day? I saw two driving into work this morning.

This latest rhetoric isn't that surprising, when viewed through this lens. It's a logical next step in the sneering left's progression from a political movement into a confederacy of full-time cranks.

My question is when is an elected Democrat, any elected Democrat, going to denounce the haters in their party? Are Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton and Charlie Rangel all okay with threats against the life of the president?

don't forget the crap that went on in Wisconsin that probably cost Bush that state, and all the attacks and vandalism of GOP offices, "peace" protesters getting violent with counter-protesters, etc

It's really getting out of hand. It's funny and sad how many really believe that the elections were stolen, or that their lefty ideas are just too much for the rest of the "knucle-draggers" that don't believe them. And it really doen't look like it's getting any better

The crap the libs are doing is pathetic. However it may be slightly hypocrital to point this out and then link to Jesus's Generals site where it shows Caterpillar merch and links it to support to the crushing of the idiot girl in Israel. Just my $.02 that we should at least to pretend to practice what we preach.

Ummm... no doubt, the Rachel Corrie pancake stuff is a nasty sort of joke.

But please, don't claim that that sort of "dead cat" humor is anything like the express endorsement of future political assassinations.

One is making a joke about a tragedy already passed. The other seeks out a new tragedy.

Brainy,

As distateful as I find any jokes about tragedy, the comparison does not hold. Before Rachel Corrie died, there were no right-wingers calling for her death. There was not "Kill Rachel Corrie" merchandise for sale on websites.

The "Kill Bush" stuff is making implied threats against the life of the highest elected official in the country, something forbidden by federal law:

Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

Several sites, or commenters, have been joking about Rachel Corrie. That's pretty despicable, but this "Kill the Prez" business is unambiguously criminal. As Sean M. notes, even Nixon and Johnson were never treated like this.

One rationale for those laws is to prevent creating a climate where the act of killing the President becomes more likely. Slublog's right: it's shameful that not a single elected Democrat has denounced this crap. I'm not saying they're abetting these hatemongers, but morally there's a degree of complicity there. With two exceptions I can't recall any major Democrat in the last decade who criticized the excesses of their fellow Dems or anyone in the ranks of their allies. Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller weren't exactly thanked when they stood up and said all this loose shit had to stop.

Woah, guys, I wasn't trying to equate the two. I just wanted to make sure people were not accepting the "yeah-but-theirs-is-worse" mentality I've seen at lesser sites. My only point is that if I have a credible beef, I don't want it undermined by a mistaken belief that I'm OK with "my side" doing the same crap.

Making jokes about Darwin solutions for moonbats (R. Corrie or the Roe effect) isn't advocating violence or justifying it.

It's not so much that it's offensive, who cares, it goes to the level of trust one can place civil democracy when the moonbat party believes it needs to out-cheat us to win.

If the secular libertarians split from the Christian conservatives and can take over from the moonbats it might actually be good for the country. Me, I'm staying put, though libertarian I've grown skeptical of anti religious secularism and rejection of the traditional. The principles of evolution operate on culture every bit as much as biology and tradition is to culture what DNA is to biology.

Brainy...sorry about that. Didn't mean to seem like we were piling on.

I think for the most part, our side does a better job of criticizing its own excesses. I mean, check Oliver Willis' site for comments on the "kill Bush" stuff and you can practically hear the crickets chirping. Ditto with Kos and Joshua Marshall. These guys simply do not seem to care that people on their side of the political debate are making implied threats against the president of the United States.

Granted, Kos is a rabblerouser, Marshall is wonky policy guy and Willis is just an idiot. But one would think they could spare a few pixels to at least say 'hey, maybe we shouldn't be doing this sort of thing.'

When conservatives like John Cornyn or James Dobson say stupid things, I jump ugly on them on my blog. I think one of the most important roles conservative blogs fill is keeping our own side honest. Not all conservative bloggers agree with me on this, which is fine.

So your comments are well-founded, but I think we're doing a pretty good job.

Point taken, brainy 435. Another thing to keep in mind: we're not playing on a level field. Right now the MSM is hyperventilating about some rhetoric from the right about activist judges that, frankly, I thought was out of bounds. Stuff like that from "our side" weakens our case when we go after more significant abuses on the left, and it doesn't matter if we point out that no one on the right is distributing cutouts of judges with targets printed on them.

boris..you got me. I love laughing at Darwin stories and hadn't thought about it from that angle. I agree with Slublog that I'd preferr "my side" played clean. Kind of how even though I love my Browns I don't want them to win a SuperBowl if they have to lower themselves to the standards of thugs like the Ravens to do it. (No bitter animosity there! No, sir!)
And I didn't mean to suggest Ace or anyone else was letting this go on, I just happened to make the connection while I was on the other site and wanted to point it out before someone said somethig nasty.

A while back, right after Fahrenshit 911 came out, some conservative blogger suggested a Michael Moore target be made. This was the product:

http://ageofreason.mu.nu/archives/041406.html

The site above wasn't the one that first hosted the target.

Granted, he isn't the President and is really of no importance at all. Would I like to have several of these? Yes. Do I condone shooting him? Hell no.

brainy,

just a friendly FYI, the Jesus' General site is sort of an anti-conservative site.

He's making fun of the LGFers (and using a particularly difficult to defend example in "Iron Red Lobster Cook")

Actually the corrie shit is hilarious, when viewed from the perspective of her sainthood by the left and her obviously hate filled life (see the corrie pic at LGF)

I'm a red stater that migrated to one of the most liberal enclaves in New York three years ago (Park Slope).

As a red stater I like guns. As a liberal, I despise Bush and his whole Hee Haw gang.

But, there is no excuse for this.

I hope the guy or gal gets his ass thrown in jail. No argument can be made that this is appropriate.

Besides, if the bastard had any sense he would have printed up and distributed urinal decals instead.

That would be far more appropriate, participative and legal.

Might I suggest a big steaming mug full of "Get a motherfucking sense of perspective, you ass-licking loser?"

On one hand we have the 1500 Americans and 10,000+ Iraqis who have been murdered in order to line the pockets of Dubya's campaign contributors. We have abortions clinics bombed. We have torture at Abu Ghrabib and Gitmo.

On the other hand we have...a poster and some custard pies.

You're priorities are pretty fucked up, dude.

hey Ab-normal, when was the last abortion clinic bombed? Could you kindly tell me the law that overrides 18 USC S 1871?

Oh, fuck it. You're so bitter and myopic that pixels are wasted on you except for insult.

How's the crack-whore lifestyle treating you?

loser.

lobbygow - while urinal stickers would be offensive, I'd be okay with them. Legitimate political statement. Plus, it would give liberal kids a target during toilet training.

Now, Don Myers...
On one hand we have the 1500 Americans and 10,000+ Iraqis who have been murdered in order to line the pockets of Dubya's campaign contributors. We have abortions clinics bombed. We have torture at Abu Ghrabib and Gitmo.

Whoa. You sure can rattle off those lines, huh? Bet that's a kicker at cocktail parties.

Part of me is tempted to try and argue against the points you've raised, but ultimately it would be pointless.

I'm with hobgoblin on this one. Save the talking points for an argument that doesn't involve your political soulmates advocating the assassination of the president. I find it extremely sad that you're so caught up in hatred for the president that you can't bring yourself to denounce something that's wrong no matter who the president is.

I pity you.

The elven high mages and centaurs were the ones most responsible for the "torture" at guantanamo and abu graib.

Does firing space ships full of terrorists into another dimension count as torture?