When are these unrealistic Iragi's, Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians and now United Arab Emirites going to recognize they're incapable of these western, white man desires and concepts? When are they going to realize they just don't want democracy?

While it's great in theory, when are they going to wake up and realize it's not for everyone?

P.S. (just saying, more and more, it's beginning to look like this MASS delusion is spreading.)

I suppose this is a good thing (elections in UAE) but its likely a minor incremental change.

Egypt and Iran, for example, have been having elections for some time and are still largely unfree. The elections in Palestine and SA are nothing to get too excited about either.

Ray Midge,

Democracy in theory and practice are two different things. It's stupid to bring race into it though.

Looks like Bush's strategery has been misunderestimated yet again.

Some Guy: You do well to remind of the distinction between Theory and Practice. Democracy has come before, but freedom has lagged. After all, in Iran, as you point out, democracy exists, though it's of the 'theory' school that non mullah's can't appear on the ballot, and must do their campaigning from a secret jail cell.

You're right. People need to be reminded that even Iraq had democracy, though it was of a variant producing 100% suppport for Saddam. ( Curious 'democracies', those.)

This is not to say that we shouldn't be cautious about the changes occurring. Egypt's is small after all. And it remains to be seen how/whether the changes will actually be implemented to its present 'democratic' system.

Yes, you do well to remind of the need for circumspection with regard to these new hopes for democracy, but it would seem the people who need this circumspection regarding 'democracy' the most are the Arabs now clamoring for it themselves. Calm down guys!

The neo-cons' masterplan unfolds............

One of the things that pissed me off about the debate before the Iraq war was that critics would never address the neo-con strategy as they explained it. The only people who taked about it seriously were folks at the Weekly Standard and National Review. You never heard any talk about the plan to introduce political change throughout the MidEast via Iraq anywhere else.

Then when no WMDs were found, the critics said "It was all a lie!" even though you know full well they would have opposed invading Iraq even if it had WMDs. Then when the other rationale is explained (bringing infectious political change to the region), same critics said "YOU NEVER SAID THAT BEFORE THE WAR!"

It's so hard trying to talk to those people.

Ray Midge,

I think we share a basic scepticism towards democracy in the Mid-East.

I'd rather see people in the West skeptical (but supportive) and people in the mid-East eager towards democracy. Since the existing powers in the mid-East are already so entrenched, healthy but marginal reform is likely all thats going to come about. If there's no grass roots push in the ME than likely nothing will change.

Moonbat,

I think even among neo-cons they never tried to justify the invasion on, an intellectal level, on the grounds of bringing democracy to the Arab world; but rather that bringing democracy to the Arab world was an important secondary benefit of invasion. Some may have personally cared about that more than WMD but I don't think that was their intellectual justification.

Some Guy: FWIW my commenst were not meant to express scepticism with democracy in the middle east, quite the opposite. I was using sarcasm, repeating the worst of the doomsayers sentiments that 'those people' are incapable of democracy or are so foreign in thought that they don't even want it - that it isn't a universal desire of man.

I would further disagree with the notion that now is the time for chin-stroking circumspection over that prospect. These events over the last few weeks and days, in all the countries above, make me almost giddy. My deepest hope is that we are seeing a fundamental change, one that once seemed unthinkable on almost the scale of the Berlin Wall coming down. Are we witnessing the first few cracks in that wall? Is this such a moment in history?

Maybe. Time will tell, but till it does, I'll wear my absurd, outsized hopes on my sleeve. Certainly those people pressing for democracy there don't see now as the time for circumspectness. They are filled with grander sentiments.

Ray Midge,

Oops. I missed the sarcasm.

Well we both hopefully fundamental change is arriving in the mid-East. But realistically I think it will take years, and maybe decades.

Regards