I can't say I'm interested in other people's sex lives if it doesn't include me, but according to the Washington Times obit, Sontag confirmed her affair with Leibowitz.

You know, I wonder if when Watson of DNA discovering duo Watson and Crick died, the New York times carefully considered including his sexual history in the obit? Inquiring minds want to know. From now on, when someone dies, real journalists ought to be hitting up their grieving family and friends to find out who they'd been nailing:

NYT: "I'm speaking to Jerry Orbach's son, correct?".

JO'sS: "Yeah."

NYT: "I'm from the New York Times, we're writing up an obit on your dad, and I need to ask you a few questions."

JO'sS: "Okay, (sniff), it's kind of a tough time, there's a lot to..."

NYT: "Great. I appreciate it. Was your dad a homo?"

JO'sS: "What?"

NYT: "Look, we'd be insulting Andrew Sullivan and a lot of our gay readership if we didn't follow up on this. Your dad was an actor. So when he hung around with other actors, was he ever. really friendly with some of the male actors in particular?"

JO'sS: "I beg your pardon! We're still just..."

NYT: "Look, I know this is difficult, but did he like Turkish baths? Movies about gladiators? Get in a fight with a drunken Michael Moriarty after an argument about Catholic teachings about sodomy?"

JO'sS: "What the hell paper did you say you..."

NYT: "When you had friends over to spend the night, did he ever kinda, you know, hang around, look in, get touchy-feely?"

JO'sS: "You f---ing jackass! I'll have you fired!"

NYT: "Fine! Be that way! HOMOPHOBE!"

You know, I don't consider myself old, but I can remember a time long before Edwards and Kerry sang out about Dick Cheney's Gay Daughter, when it was right wingers gleefully outing closeted gays, and lefties arguing for privacy. But I guess once upon a time the right used to be the humorless thin-lipped prigs and the left used to be the gentle, tolerant ones. At least that's what they taught me in school.

I'm now convinced that Sullivan starts off every day with the thought: "Now how can I make myself seem to be an even more shrill, humorless and pointlessly bitchy drama queen than the day before??"

Ace, your advocacy of journalistic objectivity and common courtesy is gob-smackingly vile.

"I know a lot of girls who have had sexual relationships with other women, but are basically straight."

And their phone numbers are...?

See, Ace, I TOLD you that you'd get a blog out of this story!

Also, how does having Susan Sontag "on your team," so to speak, help promote your cause? Hell, Sullivan used to give out his Sontag awards for over-the-top political commentary.

Reminds me of those gay guys in college who used to download lists of famous dead people suspected of being gay for one reason or another (most of whom probably weren't). I'm not sure what the point was.

Not good enough for Andrew Sullivan, who's just an absolute bear on the subject of protecting sexual privacy, at least when he's not:

And just how do you know that Andy is a bear, Ace? Didn't find any Sally Hansen boxes last time you rooted through his trash, did ya? Well, if not, didn't it occur to you that Andy just might by *using* *a* *wand*? Or was it those pictures you took after rooting through the trash? No, don't tell me, I don't wanna know. There nothing lower than a paparazzi and I don't wanna know anything that would knock you off the pedestal on which I've placed you.

Well, except for television journalists who fabricate/forge government documents with the express purpose of influencing the outcome of a presidential election. Other that that, there's nothing lower than paparzzi. Just wanted to clarify.

Arrgggghhhh!

Thanks Andrew S -- another shining example why gays won't be accepted as just regular people --- because people like Andy Agenda insist that a persons sexual activities are somehow significant and/or interesting.

She's gone. Talk about what she did. Not who the fuck she did. Who fucking cares?

Andy cares, thats who. People like Andy live to constantly alarm the world with the news I'M GAY! -- and unfortunately, that news is now greeted with so-what shrugs.

So Andy is compelled to inject I'M GAY! SHE WAS GAY! into every event in a desparate, pathetic attempt to rekindle the SHOCK value that "gay" used to have. It's over, Andy. You're boring. Like us straight people.

Look, the only thing I truly care about is the fact that an obituary was written. Wether or not she preferred to 'partake in box lunches at the Y' is irrelevent compared to the nice fact that she's dead.

Isn't the assumption that "if you hang with gay people then you must be gay" part of the reason some straight folks feel paranoid about hanging with gays? Leaping to this kind of conclusion only lends credence to 'homophobia.'

Congratulations, Andrew, you just gave people a valid reason to shun gays.

Later,
bbeck

At times like this, I like to refer to the words of a very wise woman:

"I do not da understand. Dey are da gay boyyyys!!! How you gonna get you'self a hubband if you only hang out wit da gay boyyys?!!?"

- Margaret Cho's mom

Yes, but is he a shaved mutant bear?

More importantly, how is she going to get herself a husband if she keeps insisting on stuffing her dumpling shaped body into that leather catsuit that shows everything?

I mean, DAMN.

Andrew, get a grip on your self (or let go). No one cares about your sexuality (or anyone else's), except you!

As soon as I'm published, I will begin to shun all my close female friends. God knows, I've had lunch in a San Francisco restaurant once a month with one woman for the last fifteen years. Never mind that both my friend and I are pretty heterosexual; we must be having a torrid, closeted lesbian affair.

Get a grip, Sullivan. It's possible to be close without being sexual.

"I know a lot of girls who have had sexual relationships with other women, but are basically straight. "

Okay, this is off the main point, but....what? What? Is this Ace? Ace, who sneered mightily anytime someone made a distinction between "same sex actitivy" and "homosexual"?

Don't *make* me dig up quotes, dammit.

I can recall when Andrew used to be a BIG supporter of Mr. Bush, but, when the Prez came out in favor of the Family Marriage Amendment, he suddenly discovered what a lousy president Bush was. I'm convinced he (AS) is just trying to get even with Bush. Oh, and thanks, LauraW, for conjuring up that image of Margaret Cho in her leather outfit....Jeez, I just had lunch!!

Mmmmmmmm . . . . lesbians . . . .

I second Madeno's request... as long as the women in question in no way, shape, or form look like Sontag or Leibowitz.

Andrew Sullivan can kiss my ass. Sontag's dead. And even if she died while playing Hello Kitty with another woman, who gives a damn? Her sex life doesn't belong in the obit.

Yo people! How about telling the simple truth? If she had a "long term relationship" with a woman why not say so? Why do we all have to prove how "tolerant" and "inclusive" we are by saying that it doesn't matter, or it should be private just because its about gays? Unless it is malicious gossip that might really hurt family or friends, why should we all shy away from telling the simple truth about gays or anyone else?

Cal,

Don't you know that it's different for girls?

Most women are 10-30% lesbian, anyway.

I think the best point in Ace's post was when he mentioned that Leibovitz is alive, and her privacy interests shouldn't be forgotten in this whole thing (nor should those of Sontag's family, for that matter). I have no use for Sontag, but she had denied a relationship with Leibovitz previously (something made clear in a Guardian interview linked to by Sullivan--not a careful reader, that guy), and Leibovitz and Sontag's family won't talk about it, why the hell should the New York Times make an issue out this rumor? A dead woman isn't the only one with a privacy interest here.

So much intensity over a insignificant aspect of a person's life. Can't we concentrate on the real issues that affect us all? At any point in her life, was Susan Sontag a stamp collector? And if she was, why wasn't this information placed front and center so complete strangers for whom stamp collecting is the core of their existence use it to score points for their cause?

And while we're at it, has anyone figured out why a notoriously promiscuous individual such as Sullivan thinks the right to marry another man is going to make him or others like him miraculously monogamous and no longer active viral vectors. There certainly isn't any evidence of it working for heterosexuals.

72, I'm in total agreement. Hell, throw in her pet names for her vast collection of dildos and strap-on appliances for all I care. Put it up on billboards near schoolchildren. Require it to be on packs of smokes under the Surgeon General's Warning.

As long as she stays dead, I'm cool with whatever you want to say in her obit!

I find it curious that Andrew Sullivan is all of a sudden defending the integrity of a woman that consistantly verbally bashed over the years. And I mean, he bashed her, not just her crazy ideas. Just another glaring example proving that Sullivan doesn't care about people, only his issues. That is the very definition of "ideologue".

Andy is one sick puppy

If we make Privacy an issue we assume there is shame or that someone needs to be protected (most often a child). I don't think sexuality is a moral or immoral issue, it just is... I know that Sontag and Leibovitz lived for many years together in Chelsea until their recent break-up. Perhaps that's why Leibovitz isn't talking.... Sexuality and a person's choice in a partner is open for discussion because it's a fact of their life. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.

"She had a "long-time relationship" with celebrity photographer Annie Liebovitz, but then again, who hasn't?"

Well, I haven't. But Annie did take some nice pictures of my penis. She wanted to name it too, but I told her I didn't want to participate in that.

> If she had a "long term relationship" with a woman why not say so?

Because then you get something like this:

International espionage agent Frederick Flintstone passed away in his sleep last night, at the age of 1,000,2078. Flintstone is survived by his granddaughter Rockie and his Bedrock Glens Elder Care Facility roommate Barney Rubble, with whom he enjoyed a long-term relationship.

Why are you even giving Excitable Andy the time of day? He's about as relevant as a condom at a barebacking party.
Although with that Barebacking shit, his HIV+ self should be up for attempted murder. It goes beyond perversion, its, dare I say it...Sullivanesque.

Yo Dull as Marble: We are not just talking about just anyone here, we are talking about someone who was a very controvertial public person for many decades, who wrote about sex and feminism and helped to change the world, the real truth about whom will shed light upon them. And though this may mean nothing to you, Kojo, it matters a great deal to many. As I recall, The Liberal press gave no such consideration to Roy Cohn, and no one (especially conservatives) blinked an eye. After all he was a controvertial public figure for many deacades, and believe it or not - truth is truth!

What's gay male camp? Summer camp like Lake Iwanamantanailme or something?
Or "camp" as in "somewhat silly form of humor"?
What the heck did the dead chick write about camp for, and how does that demonstrate anything?

Media double standard: Liberal homos like Sontag are 'private people'. Conservative homos are 'closet cases,' always prey to being exposed by bottom feeders like Signorile & Goldstein.

If Sontag were a Senator who'd voted for DOMA (because her constituents supported it), the Times would have feasted on her 'living situation' & 'hypocrisy.' All obits always state the survivors. Why the omission?

Liebovitz & Sontag had a daugter together, & Page Six reported that Liebovitz ran off with the nanny. It kills me, but I have to agree with Sully.

Although famous obits tend to include more details than others', its really not the place, and the family should have some control over what is disclosed.

All that other crap belongs in a biography, not an obit.

Still, Ace, it's amazing that the media isn't so interested in printing rumors about liberals. Regardless of how obvious it seems that they are true.

Obits aren't about the truth. Obits are about the fantasy of the life we meant to live.

Is it really true that Andrew Sullivan's opinions were relevant once?

who wrote about sex and feminism and helped to change the world, the real truth about whom will shed light upon them.

One cannot make this stuff up.