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November 12, 2004

Is Christmas Officially Illegal This Year, Or What?

Target bans Salvation Army bell-ringers from collecting for charity outside their stores.

The article Beck links to says that Target's given rationale is that they have a "no solicitation" policy, and it was becoming "increasingly difficult" to tell other charities why they would not be excepted from that rule, as the Salvation Army was. Um, why would this be a difficult thing? Just say no.

Anyway, Target says they needed to have consistency in their policy, and so they just banned the Salvation Army, too.

I don't know. It just sounds to me like yet another corporation has decided that any visible sign of a Christian holiday is a horrible offense to some customers.

posted by Ace at 03:31 AM

Comments

Are they banning their own solicitation as well? We don't want them pushing a Christian Holiday down our throats unless there's a really good sale on peach slacks.

Seriously, it's OK to attract people to buy gifts for this Holiday as long as no one brings attention to the fact that it's about the birth of the Messiah, right?

Posted by: Dear Johns on November 12, 2004 04:02 AM

I may take some shit for this, but I think I understand where Target is coming from.

For several years now, every Target store that I've shopped at (and some other retailers and grocery stores) has had signs posted at their entrances discouraging their patrons from giving money to people soliciting donations nearby.

I think part of this has to do with the idea that some of these "charities" may not be very reliable. Some, in fact, may actually be scams.

It's a sucky thing to have to do, but Target may have to cover its ass against lawsuits from some of the more dodgy charities (and--think about it--some "charities" run here in the states have been found to support groups like Hamas) who may file discrimination claims that they'd have to defend against or settle, passing the costs on to customers. There's also the fact that the Salvation Army is a religious organization, and the ACLU could jump on that.

Again, it sucks, but that's the price of doing business these days. You can always call your local branch of the Salvation Army and offer to donate your time or money, or you could call John Edwards' Senate office (since he's still ostensibly a Senator until January) and bitch him out about how he and his cronies have destroyed our legal system in the name of political correctness and for their own personal gain.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukkah (sp?), and whatever nice thing you say to people who celebrate Kwanzaa!

Posted by: Sean M. on November 12, 2004 05:07 AM

Target is owned by the French. Like I said, can't imagine the French helping ANY American army

Posted by: Roo on November 12, 2004 07:01 AM

I don't think this is an anti-Christian thing. Solicitation outside stores gets really bad at times and customers begin to fell harrassed. Some of the groups get particularly aggressive. I can fully understand a business saying that they can't grant an exception to one group and deny another. Nowadays, you might as well have your lawyers set up shop at the court house if you did that.

Posted by: Steve L. on November 12, 2004 08:14 AM

For the record the sound of those freakin' bells makes me want to go on a killing spree. Let me tell you how pleasant it is to be wrangling kids and trying to get to the car and unloaded or get them into the store when they want to run in every direction and you are hearing "DING DING DING DING DING DING"

*twitch* enough already.

As to the Salvation Army, I think they do a great many things that are good and decent. I think there are a majority of folks in this country who have no idea that they are in fact a "church" or religion i guess you would consider them.

I am not a fan of panhandling under any guise. I am particularly pissy about folks that let their kids stand at intersections with cans collecting money for "all star baseball" and "State Volleyball Championship trip" etc. If you cannot afford to fund your kids trip with the softball team, do not sign them up. If it is a school sport I get even madder. I pay an assload of taxes 70% of which is freaking school taxes.

I say NO panhandling and no harassing me for cash when I am struggling to get my kids herded into a damn cart! I give at church and the food bank. You cannot have my Icee money.

Yes, I know, I am a cranky bitch. It is part of my charm.

Posted by: Jennifer on November 12, 2004 08:49 AM

Target also does not consider any veteran-related activity to be a valid charity.

Posted by: thebastidge on November 12, 2004 08:57 AM

YOu know, the bummer is - that when you give to the Salvation army, you know it is going to be money "well given." I give at church, and we do other private charity -things (especially around Christmas), but I am disappointed by this Salvation Army thing ... because they have been banned by many stores now ... and they are not going to be able to do the good they have done in the past. Fact.

Posted by: Carin on November 12, 2004 08:59 AM

I don't think this is anti-Christian. Target stores are stuffed to max with Christmas items and decorations. There isn't a retailer in America that is anti-Christmas, retailers live for Christmas. For some of them it provides 50% of annual revenues.

Posted by: SteveL on November 12, 2004 09:23 AM

Not to mention a French corporation. Target is a French company. You might want to bear that in mind when choosing where to shop...

Posted by: Scott P on November 12, 2004 09:25 AM

Some readers seem misinformed. Target is not french, but the former Dayton Hudson Corp, based in Minneapolis.

Over the years, the CEO has been known to be a large contributor to mostly Catholic charities, usually doing things like helping homeless, abused wives, etc.

One of the things that's struck me over the years is that Target, unlike the other chains, always stressed "Christmas" in their ads. Competitors stressed "holidays" - specifically avoiding the word "Christmas". Watch to see if Target continues to stress "Christmas".

Posted by: JM Galvin on November 12, 2004 10:04 AM

I think you might wanna check out snopes with regard to the facts about Target being french owned or about them not supporting veterans orginazations. It debunks both of those allegations.

Posted by: bogglezombie on November 12, 2004 10:21 AM

Ace--

With this story you missed the perfect opportunity to use a photo of the bell-ringing Christmas monkey:

http://garfieldridge.blogspot.com/2004/11/target-bans-salvation-army.html

Cheers,
Dave

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge on November 12, 2004 11:14 AM

Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I surprised? No.

This is the same Target that is already blasting ring-a-ding-ding "joy = buying presents" ads for the "holiday" season, when we're not even midway through November.

It's becoming increasingly difficult, but each year I vow to not shop at any store that is pushing Christmas prior to Thanksgiving week. If I can't get all of my Christmas shopping completed in the approximately 4 weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas Day, then I'm focusing way too much on the presents and not enough on the preparation that we're supposed to be doing during Advent.

Posted by: David on November 12, 2004 11:48 AM

I've seen this happen to the Army before, and it got reversed when it became clear to the property owners that Sally Ann has many, many supporters (including me). I'm reminded of cities running around banning the Boy Scouts from using public property; that didn't stick everywhere either.

OT - anyone else passed on buying Heinz products since it became clear these come from that Heinz? Happened with me for the first time last night.

Posted by: Lastango on November 12, 2004 11:55 AM

I just called the Target Company. They claim that they've just decided not to extend an exception to their no-solicitation policy to the Salvation Army anymore, and the guy I talked to was telling me all about the donations they do make.

I've never been harassed by the people manning the kettle. I look forward to the sound of the bell. It's part of the Christmas feel here.

I checked with Snopes- the vets thing is false, but this is true.

Dang... I liked shopping there. I hope they change their minds about this...

Posted by: Beth on November 12, 2004 12:21 PM

I have to stick up for Target on this one : it's all about liability and lawsuits. It doesn't matter that they're perfectly within their rights to say "We will allow the SA to collect outside our stores, but no one else."

All those other charities will cry discrimination and file lawsuits and so on and so forth.

Will Target win these lawsuits? Probably. That doesn't remove the fact that these lawsuits can go on for years and cost significant amounts of money.

You could go and file a lawsuit against the owner of a local deli -- completely unfounded -- and make the poor guy's life hell for years.

Target has to cover its ass. The best way is to have a blanket policy that excludes everyone.

Stupid lawsuit-happy society. ;)

Posted by: bkw on November 12, 2004 12:39 PM

It's getting harder for companies or towns to only favor a few charities with "exceptions" to corporate policies or town laws. Another charity effort that is getting much criticism these days is the firefighters setting up road blockjs to petition stalled motorists to "Fill the Boot" they shove at windows for "Jerry's Muscular Dystrophy Kids".

Firefighters have tried to maintain their exceptions, but it is hard on town legal liability, and arrests of other copycatters setting up road blocks - even the infamous "squeegee people" - have been thrown out of court because "if firefighters can block public streets, fairness says others are entitled".

The Salvation Army bothers no one except the ACLU guys bent on stamping out Christianity, but tradition is a weak defense when you have 300 other state-recognized charities also wishing to set up a gauntlet line to urge Christmas shoppers to give to their cause - and many are far more aggressive and intrusive (within the law) than the Salvation Army's modus operandi.

Posted by: Cedarford on November 12, 2004 12:39 PM

this will cost them. watch same store sales year ago.

Posted by: Dave in Texas on November 12, 2004 06:15 PM

I checked the Target website, and found that they have (or at least claim to have) in place, a number of charitable programs, including some sort of link that allows you to buy a gift which includes a donatiion to the St. Jude's Childrens' Hospitals.
I'd been all ready to send them a nasty letter, but I can really imagine a whole bunch of little pricks of conscience pestering them... "We should be allowed to solicit for donations for our [vivisection, support late-term abortions, broil the baby harp seals, protect the baby harp seals, radium-on-your Breakfast cereal, allow/ban man-sheep marriage] group..."

Posted by: David March on November 16, 2004 04:00 AM

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I don't know, I always thought there was a distinction between mere magic rings and the Rings of Power created by Sauron. But this suggests that Bilbo knew this was a ring of power created by Sauron.
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I never noticed this before. I know Tolkien re-wrote this chapter while he was writing LOTR to make the ring important from the start. And also to make Gollum more sinister and evil, and also to remove the part where Gollum actually offers Bilbo the ring as a "present" -- Bilbo had already found it on his own, but Gollum was wiling to give it away, which obviously is not something the rewritten Gollum would ever do.
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