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October 13, 2004

Debate Thread

Well, everyone on FoxNews seemed to think Bush won, and they've been very critical of Bush's past two performances.

Other takes...

Summary: Bush stomped Kerry, without a doubt. Not only did he project a more interested demeanor, but he also showed a more pleasant speaking style and a superior grasp of detail. He projected an optimism that completely escapes Kerry, especially tonight. Kerry was the one stumbling through answers this time, including inexplicably on the question about his experience with strong women. Kerry could not stay on topic, and like John Edwards, wound up simply regurgitating his stump speeches. Bush offered more thoughtful answers, more extemporaneous, and seemed much more genuine as a result.
This debate will wind up being recognized as a disaster for the Kerry campaign within the next 48 hours, and within 96 hours the polls will demonstrate it.

Digger's Realm doesn't offer an opinion on the whole debate, but he's annoyed by the elite media's (and both parties') refusal to even contemplate the immigration issue:

The sad thing is there was only one single question on immigration. The moderator prefaced the question by saying "I received the most email on this issue and next question", yet the candidates only spent maybe 4 minutes total on it.
Shameful!

Hugh Hewitt seemed overly impressed by Bush's performance in debate one, but he's a hell of a guy anyway, and he says Bush kicked ass:

Kerry on the defensive on many issues tthat matter to voters, and especially Catholic voters and voters with children. The worst fumble by Kerry: Not answering the cost question on health care
Talking heads beaking for Bush in a big way. Bill Kristol, always hard on Bush, acknowledges that Bush crushed Kerry on nearly every exchange. Moron K. outraged at "outing" of Cheney's daughter, which he calls a low, dirty trick.
[Ace here: I agree! It's loathesome. Does anyone doubt the MSM would call them on this if it were Republicans who kept outing a Democrat candidate's child as gay?]

Kerry finsihed the debate sequence as the candidate of global tests, truth tests, France, tax hikes, government health care....

Bush finished the debate ... promising to keep working hard for children and the armies of compassison, resolute in the war, thrilled by Afghanistan, optimistic about Iraq, and comfortable with every voter in his potential pool.

...

Sleep easy, America. W for four more years.

Hewitt has more, including a big chart grading each candidate on each question. Now that's diligence. (Hey, I was watching The Untouchables, which is frankly a better way to spend one's time.)

Instapundit has only a single word:

Heh.

No, really, he says he thinks Bush won "hands down."

Bill from INDC:

I know that this is a boring, repetitive assessment, but ... very close to an effective tie. But with the strength of his closing, Bush actually won. The momentum is to Bush.

Bill also has been posting other blog-reactions.

Michelle Malkin is steamed about the transparent, disgraceful "Your daughter is a dyke" bullshit, and annoyed at the immigration question. Or rather the answers.

Llama Butchers skips all this "what I thought" bullshit and gets right to the heart of the matter: where is the smart money headed? He says Tradesports has Bush up $4.00 and Kerry down $3.90, and he's got all sorts of graphs and whatsits to prove it.

PowerLineBlog, whoever they are, call it a split decision:

On the whole I thought that Kerry did somewhat better than Bush on the ordinary domestic issues. He was almost always on the attack and was better able to back up his arguments with (often misleading) data. On the other hand, Bush did better than Kerry on the "social" issues. As usual, Kerry seemed much less comfortable than Bush in this area, probably with good reason. Moreover, Bush had a significantly better closing statement. He was able to articulate something approaching a vision, while Kerry was on the defensive, trying to reassure voters that he would defend the country and not give foreign powers a veto over our use of force. This isn't a good place to be three weeks before the election. On balance, then, I think the debate was probably a draw on substance. If I had to pick a winner, in pure debate terms, it would be Kerry, since most of the debate was dedicated to discussing non-social issues.
If one analyzes the debate in the context of election politics, however, one could argue that Bush won. He probably came off as more human and likeable. He looked fresher than Kerry. And he certainly came across as more optimistic and visionary. Unless a majority of Americans are pessimistic this year, Bush may have won the debate that matters.

Qu'ran Project:

The President won and by a large margin. He looked calm, happy to be there and in control of his thoughts and emotions. While he made some solid attacks on Sen. Kerry (D-France), he always seemed positive and upbeat. Conversely, Sen. Kerry was whining about the attacks and repeating the same pre-debunked arguments from the last 3 debates. I just about fell out of my chair when he mentioned Tora Bora for the millionth time. ...
When the Gay Marriage issue came up, I was braced for a bloodletting but The President make a compelling case for his amendment. The case against activist judges is sound. I still oppose the amendment, but he made a really good argument. The best Sen. Kerry could do was to hit below the belt at Vice President Cheney's daughter. He may regret that remark in the days ahead.

Fuckin' a-- I love it when a meme begins to come together. Seems like everyone's pretty pissed off at this pussy-coward "Your daughter's a dyke" bullshit.

Fuck you, Kerry. You gonna tell me you never had a cock in that mishapen mouth of yours?

Protein Wisdom is, I think, overly cynical about John Kerry's ability to deliver on his various promises.

Travelling Shoes:

My first impressions are that this debate was a narrow win for Bush.
...

I did think, however, that Kerry scored points with his talk about jobs, and his attacks on the economy. However, I would also say that his non-stop attacking left him looking petulant and more than a little ridiculous. He was in danger of becoming a caricature of a candidate, always attacking but never offering a real alternative.

...

Happily, thanks to the last two debates and Kerry's recent interview in the New York Times, the Democrat in the household has become something of a security mom and has moved tentatively into the Bush column.

So, on those ground alone I can score this a Bush win.

PoliPundit:

However the President really did well tonight. He was focused, informative, and charming while driving home the point that his opponent is a Massachusetts liberal. His opponent, on whom the pressure was on to win the debate, was not as good as he was in the first debate or even the second debate.

Another PoliPundit contributor then offers an optimistic projection for the election.

Hat Tip to Foolsblog for the PoliPundit link.

Garfield Ridge:

The debates were a wash. This election is effectively tied. November 2nd is going to be decided by turnout.

I think that's wrong. The debates weren't a wash-- and that's why the polls are effectively tied. Bush had a 6-8 point lead before he decided to sleepwalk through the first debate.

Da Goddess weighs in:

Great debate! Bush was very effective, warm, and listened to Laura's advice. No slouching and no scowling. Kerry seemed off his game. THK is gonna take the strop to him tonight in the hotel suite. She was none too pleased with his comments about her.
...

Winner: Bush, hands down.

The idea of THK coming at me with a "strop" will give me nightmares for years to come, I'm certain.

Alarming News felt the whole thing was pretty tedious:

It was a deadly boring debate. I wrote in minute 9 that it was going to be hellish. There wasn't one 'zing' moment and there also wasn't anything new at all. I think it was a tie, with an edge to Bush for seeming more human than Kerry. This was a debate to get an impression for 'the person' and if you hate Bush then nothing was going to change that for you tonight. Similarly, if you think Kerry is a pompous ass, that impression was only solidified.

Having snapped off the debate within ten minutes to watch Elliot Ness throw Frank Nitti off a roof, I can't accuse her of not being sufficiently enthralled by the proceedings.

Ace of Spades really thought that Sean Connery deserved that Best Supporting Actor nod for The Untouchables:

MALONE: If Capone pulls a knife, you pull a gun. If he puts one of your boys in the hospital, you put one of his in the morgue. That's the Chicago way.

So, so true. I still cry when Malone dies.

Closing the Round-Up: I think we've covered the big points by now.

posted by Ace at 09:07 PM

Comments

So far I would say that Bush is winning. Kerry is sounding very trite. Same old same old over and over. He looks like a robot stuck on last week's sound bites.

Posted by: Nomorelies on October 13, 2004 09:25 PM

this is a soundbite contest, and on those terms, so far bush is winning.

Posted by: frendlydude2k on October 13, 2004 09:28 PM

Kerry is such a name dropping cocksucker. I am sure that Dick Cheney is thrilled that Kerry is using his daughter as a sound bite.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 09:30 PM

Um, in his response to the first question, did I hear Kerry say that President Bush "regrettably... made decisions on foriegn policy"? I think I did.

Seems like that sort of attitude would sum up Kerry's foriegn policy approach - actual decisions would be regrettable...

Posted by: marc on October 13, 2004 09:34 PM

If i hear him talk about being an alter boy again i may vomit. I am sure Father whoever is thrilled he is now the champion of partial birth abortion.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 09:35 PM

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 09:40 PM

cmon ace, get in here and yell BULLSHIT. Kerry outta be employed as a fertilizer salesman. All he spews is BS.....

Posted by: Midaz on October 13, 2004 09:41 PM

Great line Bush......"Not sure it's a good idea to use 2 major news network's opinions."

Posted by: Chuck on October 13, 2004 09:42 PM

KERRY JUST ADMITTED THAT GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Midaz on October 13, 2004 09:43 PM

And another thing, Kerry has mentioned Blue Cross/Blue Shield three times now. Is he on their payroll?

Posted by: Midaz on October 13, 2004 09:44 PM

That Blue Cross blue shield line is total shit. BC/BS is the network contract for medicaid. It *is* Govt healthcare!

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 09:46 PM

I swear to God if Kerry gets elected this proves that the average american voter falls somewhere between spoor mold and a toaster oven on the evolutionary scale. This guy makes me wanna puke. PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN.

Posted by: on October 13, 2004 09:49 PM

ZZZZZzzzzzzzz my god, i am burnt out.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 09:50 PM

Kerry's plan is to "plan"

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 09:51 PM

BUT BUT BUT

He has a plan

Posted by: Midaz on October 13, 2004 09:55 PM

small point- team kerry went out of their way not to lower expectations on this one, anticipating a route, i think. but it just ain't happenin' so far. could bleed him a bit.

Posted by: frendlydude2k on October 13, 2004 09:56 PM

Kerry just f'ing lied. Provable lie. Woman make 76 cents on the dollar that a man makes.

Posted by: Midaz on October 13, 2004 09:58 PM

What is he talking about??? I forget... OH oh yeah..minimum wage.

That entire tirade was totally either nonsensical or I am too stupid to follow his double talk.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:01 PM

Another provable Kerry lie. He just claimed HALF of all black males in NYC are unemployed

Posted by: Midaz on October 13, 2004 10:02 PM

Bob was doing ok for 30 seconds but now he is giving Kerry way too many softballs. He asks Bush all the hard questions. total shit.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:04 PM

What is a more true measure of school performance? A percentage increase in testing or the number of after-school programs "lost" so that the "super-wealthy" can get a tax cut?

What a load.

Posted by: Brad on October 13, 2004 10:05 PM

that 89 billion dollars for the rich seems to cover about 800 billion dollars worth of spending. Amazing how that works. It was suppose to cover homeland security, healthcare, now education, and social security. 89 billion causes a shortfall of how much? that is just odd math to me.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:07 PM

Bob said he got the most email about immigration, yet they only spent about 3-4 minutes on it. Neither candidate is serious about it.

I'm sure they might become so when finally some terrorist blows something up after sneaking across.

I have a new entry up on it at my site.

Posted by: Digger on October 13, 2004 10:07 PM

Did anybody else laugh at "I am a hunter; I am a gun owner"?

Posted by: Brad on October 13, 2004 10:10 PM

what is he talking about? oh, affirmative action. god he is long winded.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:13 PM

Ugh Affirmitave Action. Here's a word for ya Kerry, there will ALWAYS be some people who discriminate. AA ain't gonna solve it, it just furthers discrimination by pointing out that someone is getting preferential treatment.

Posted by: Digger on October 13, 2004 10:14 PM

why do liberals hate god so much? I honestly do not understand it. I do not understand how a media in a society whom the vast majority believe in a higher power is so totally belligerent about god.

I hate when bush stumbles. the funny thing is when he stumbles when talking about his faith he is 1 million times more sincere than Kerry.

"He says freedom is a gift from the almighty I say everything is a gift from the almighty." It is like I AM MORE HOLY THAN YOU! Neener neener i said everything TAKE THAT!

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:19 PM

The Baby Jesus just hates those schools for the haves and schools for the have nots.

Posted by: Brad on October 13, 2004 10:19 PM

Whenever Kerry says "I have a plan" grab your wallet and run the other direction.

Posted by: Nomorelies on October 13, 2004 10:21 PM

Heheh Brad

Posted by: Digger on October 13, 2004 10:21 PM

Brad:

Do you mean Edwards? oh oh the REAL Baby jesus...

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:22 PM

Bob Schiefer gets five starts for weak, insubstantial questions.... this is really boring

Posted by: Doug on October 13, 2004 10:24 PM

Of course Bush tried that New Tone stuff when he took office, and the Dems gave it exactly six seconds. Ted Kennedy wrote the education bill that Kerry voted for, but now says was UNFUNDED. Obviously, if Kerry really believed his words, he would have been more involved in the passage of the Administration's agenda.

Posted by: Brad on October 13, 2004 10:24 PM

kerry made a funny...almost. there are definately degrees of marrying UP. Teresa looks cranky.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:26 PM

Vietnam!!! 9:27pm cst!

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:27 PM

Jennifer:

You didn't think we could escape the shadow of Vietnam in this debate, did you? We're just lucky he only mentioned it once.

Posted by: Brad on October 13, 2004 10:30 PM

Bob did all he could to give it to Kerry. Let the spin begin.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 10:31 PM

It seems pretty clear that John Kerry wishes he had married Laura.

Posted by: m on October 13, 2004 10:59 PM

I'm hoping a most of the women watching hung around until the end, as Bush's evident love and respect for his wife would have won him big points.

Kerry essentially "me too'ed" that question and then quickly changed the topic to his mama.

Posted by: H.D. Miller on October 13, 2004 11:10 PM

I am sure Kerry wishes he had married Laura. Unfortunately, Laura did not have the minimum $300 million net worth he requires to propose.

Posted by: JW on October 13, 2004 11:16 PM

Bush had a good debate. Wish he had done half as well on his first, and most important, widely viewed debate. Can't believe Kerry followed the smarmy Breck Girl and brought up Cheney's daughter. Cheap shot. While Bush did a nice job saying how important his religiosity is, the question was essentially "Did God tell him to invade Iraq?" - and Bush missed the chance to say he was grounded in the secular world, made his decision on logic not faith - and after listening to all sorts of advisors.

Posted by: Cedarford on October 13, 2004 11:18 PM

So you guys think that Bush won?

I watched ten minutes and thought he looked sort of exhausted and physically weak and I turned it off in disgust.

Again, though, that was just ten minutes. I thought what he was saying was okay, although he did seem to really want to discuss education rather than job-creation.

Everyone seems to think he did well, though, so I'm glad I DVR'ed it.

I'm not a good judge of these things. I always am too hard on Bush.

Posted by: ace on October 13, 2004 11:27 PM

It is worth watching just to see Kerry squirm under the "social issue" questions. Faith/abortion etc.

Btw, the more I think about the whole "we married up thing" was weak but funny then you realize he is not talking about his wife, he is talking about his mother. As a woman, I am repulsed. He has a wife and daughters and he talks about mommy???

silly man

Posted by: Jennifer on October 13, 2004 11:30 PM

Watching the post-debate bit with Hannity and Colmes, I have come to one conclusion: Rich Giamboni's hoagie editorial needs to be used by interviewees against journalists, as in "If you interrupt me one more time, I will fucking kill you..."

Posted by: Walt Powell on October 13, 2004 11:33 PM

KERRY SPENT MORE TIME PRAISING LAURA BUSH TAN THERESA.

Posted by: avi on October 13, 2004 11:35 PM

Any chance I could get some mo 'o dat link love Ace?

Here is my take

Posted by: Qur'an Pundit on October 13, 2004 11:58 PM

Jennifer,

Can I quote your "name-dropping cocksucker" line, or is that just for the comments?

Posted by: Ace on October 13, 2004 11:58 PM

Something I caught that the newsies won't - no such thing as a freaking "support division" in the Army

Kerry's as effed up as football bat, anyway. But he didn't win any veterans over with that one.

Posted by: blaster on October 14, 2004 12:11 AM

WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO????

Posted by: Anonymous on October 14, 2004 12:16 AM

Didn't know who was doing the roundups tonight. My take, a bit late.

Posted by: Jeff G on October 14, 2004 12:16 AM

Hey if you're taking over for Allah, .....here's my take.

Posted by: H.D. Miller on October 14, 2004 12:18 AM

Your gonna tell me where that bookkeeper is, or I'm gonna rat you out for all the shit I know you did!

Posted by: ace on October 14, 2004 12:23 AM

Got you all. If you don't notice your link, scan up; I'm trying to keep my Untouchables reference as the closer.

Posted by: ace on October 14, 2004 12:29 AM

I think Bush did pretty well, but I agree with Dick Morris that James Baker must've been smoking crack when he agreed to make the debate all about domestic issues. The media people are going to call it a draw at worst for Kerry, even though he looked pale and droopy while Bush was pretty vibrant and on the attack.

As for Schieffer, he was okay, but his question to Kerry about whether or not he'd try to bring together our politically polarized country drove me up the effing wall. What did he expect Waffles to say, "No, Bob, I intend to divide this country in a way that we haven't seen since the Civil War"?

Posted by: Sean M. on October 14, 2004 12:37 AM

Ace--

Here's my take: http://garfieldridge.blogspot.com/2004/10/debate-reaction_14.html

First Bush win (and I called the other two for Kerry).

It was also the first *conservative* debate. Sure, Bush isn't perfect. But I think he made one thing clear tonight: if Candidate A says he'll continue spending and cut taxes, and Candidate B says he'll continue spending and raise taxes, I'll vote for Candidate A every single time.

Bush is Candidate Fuckin' A.

Cheers,
Dave

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge on October 14, 2004 01:06 AM

Since Kerry was an alter boy, can't we assume he's already been fucked in the ass?

Posted by: Ron on October 14, 2004 01:09 AM

You are free to use the "Name Dropping Cocksucker" line all you like. I try to use the word cocksucker as often as possible. It shocks people coming from a mom. BTW Terry McAuliffe is King Cocksucker just so you know.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 14, 2004 01:13 AM

Gallup snap poll:

Kerry: 53%
Bush: 39%

CNN.com

Regardless of the spinning of the right-wing faithful, the American people know what they saw.

Goodnight

BTW: I love seeing the colorful language in this thread expose you all for what you are.

Posted by: Batman on October 14, 2004 01:23 AM

You and I are not so different. I am but a shadowy reflection of you. It would not take much to push you into the darkness, like me.

Belloque said that. He's a smart man.

Posted by: ace on October 14, 2004 01:27 AM

I still predict Kerry and his altar boy Johnny Edwards will come out of the closet and declare their love for one another. The thought is seared - seared in his crotch.

Jennifer is right McAuliffe is a blood stained, shit covered cock sucker. You can almost see the knob on Kerry's cheek.

Posted by: Reggie von Kerry on October 14, 2004 01:28 AM

By the way, Batman:

Be sure to hit the TipJar!

I can't keep delivering this great content to you unless I gets me some cash-money love!

Posted by: ace on October 14, 2004 01:28 AM

Okay, Reggie, lighten up with the imagery.

Posted by: ace on October 14, 2004 01:31 AM

I should have brought up the reaming Kerry was going to get back in his suite, right?

Posted by: Da Goddess on October 14, 2004 01:53 AM

where is Allah (the All-Wise and Powerful)?

Posted by: on October 14, 2004 02:27 AM

MALONE DIES?!? awww CRAP.

Posted by: marc on October 14, 2004 09:21 AM

Ace--

The debates *were* a wash. Kerry won, then they tied, then Bush won.

The problem was, Kerry won the first one, which is the one that everyone watched, and it was the one where he could do the most damage to Bush's post-convention lead.

I think now we'll start to see Bush creep back up in the polls to election day. Maybe not out of the MOE, but the big mo should be with W.

Cheers,
Dave

Posted by: Dave at Garfield Ridge on October 14, 2004 12:35 PM