Thanks Ace. By the way, when I posted the comment, the server responded that cell_phone was a questionable phrase and it wouldn't let me post, so I made cell_phone one word.

I'm surprised Cleland admitted to the conversation. Why would he do that?

Is it possible to get hives upon reading the word shadowy? I think I have developed an allergy to it. I have lost my ability to detect sarcasm and satire. I think I will retire to the shadows of my bedroom and allow the gloom to wash over me.

Hey, cellphone is one word, at least according to John "Five Words" Kerry.

Ace-- I enjoyed the trip down memory lane today. Damn, you can be a funny guy.

You know, funny-- like a clown.

Cheers,
Dave
Garfield Ridge

whoa.. heavy shady linkage goin on here.. CBS, Cleland, Kerry, Burkett, Hitler, Moore, Hitler.

complete contact list of CBS affiliates here: It's go time.

Ace:
I love ya man, you're doing great work. BUT. It is my fear that if we take the target off of Dan Rather and put it on the DNC or Kerry Campaign, Dan Rather and CBS News may be able to escape with jobs intact.

I don't know that anyone who doesn't consider tin foil a fashion accessory thinks this stuff came from anywhere but partisian Dems. The focus needs to stay on the fact that Dan Rather didn't do his job. And then lied when he got caught.

As a Star Wars fan I'm sure you'll appreciate this: "Stay on target. Stay on target..."

Sorry to be critical. It's your site, of course. Like I said, you're doing yeoman's work. I'm still trying to decide whether you, INDCent Bill, Allah, or Bob Dole is the one en fuego el mejor this week, but you're all kicking butt!

Ace,check out this picture of Van Os and Cleland I found:

VanOs_Cleland

Shadowy indeed. I think they are giving the "thumbs up" to Rather to run the story.

The NY Times has even more information:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/18/politics/campaign/18guard.html

"I spent some time on the phone with the Kerry campaign seniors yesterday," Mr. Burkett wrote on Aug. 21 in an e-mail letter circulated to a list of about 600 Texas Democrats.

He complained that he had to "get through seven layers of bureaucratic kids trying to get a job after the election."

"I talked with Max Cleland," Mr. Burkett continued, referring to the former senator from Georgia who has been supporting Senator John Kerry's Democratic presidential bid.

Alluding to advertisements by a veterans group that deprecates Mr. Kerry's Vietnam service, Mr. Burkett continued, "I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money. He said counterattack."

"So I gave them the information to do it with," Mr. Burkett wrote. "But none of them have called me back."

Mr. Burkett did not say what information he offered. Earlier this year, he gained attention for saying that in 1998 he saw aides to Gov. George W. Bush of Texas and Guard officials dispose of pieces of Mr. Bush's National Guard record that could prove politically embarrassing. Mr. Bush's aides have denied his account.

"I volunteered to come back out with more," Mr. Burkett wrote.

Brett, don't worry. No matter how wide the web of players expands it does nothing to get Rather off the hook. It wouldn't matter if Killian rose from the grave and gave Rather the memos in person. It was still entirely CBS' responsibility to verify what they had.

Whether Rather was a dupe or an accomplice is mere detail. Either condition is intensely damning for someone in his position.

Rather is rather small potatoes. I want to know the source, and any points of collusion with the DNC wrt attacking Bush.

Hmm the media acts in concert with a political party, making up stuff to attack those they don't like. Remind you of anyone?

And the Left calls the Right facists!

I disagree, bkw. Kerry could be the next Dukakis: one good wallop and he'd be lucky to get an invite to grandma's birthday party. Dan Rather, on the other hand, is kingpin of the Mainstream Media Meanies. "Power behind the throne" and all that. Not to mention the mouthpiece that tells America what to think of the patsy-in-chief if he gets in office. Bringing down Kerry won't get Rather, but bringing down Rather takes Kerry with him.

Listen to "Gold Leader" Brett: "Stay on target". I'll trust "my Captain" can handle Lurch Vapor himself - I want Rather the Hutt.

All the more reason to chuckle at the morons who say "Faux News."

Black Republican I know where you are coming from, but don't be so centered on "it's all about Bush". The liberal media has worked with the Dems in other elections, local, state, and national. BKW is dead on in how Rather is small potatos, even Dubya's next 4 years...the real matter is tracing the forgery conspiracy down, and if it ends up with a CBS-DNC plot, to insure the public airwaves are rid of subvertors.

Mad Max Cleland's involvement is not a surprise. Why he would admit that he took calls from Burkett is he probably knows full well that Burkett's phone records may be examined shortly in the forgery investigation. Since Burkett mentioned Max, Max is pals with his lawyer Van Os, it behooved Max, in a CYA (what's left of Max's) mode, to admit receiving the call and passing it to Kerry's operatives.

I, BTW, have no pity left for Cleland. The guy was a rotten Senator, then blamed his loss on dirty campaign tactics, then got a lucrative patronage job from Teddy and Daschle that pays 156,000 dollars a year, plus huge supergrade perks (Export-Import Bank). I doubt Mad Max has showed up at that job more than 5-10% of the time this year as he hits the road full time for his "Band of Brothers pal" John Kerry. As for his crippling, he did it to himself in a grenade accident, though he is happy when intro speakers at a Cleland appearance just leave it at the disingenuous "wounds he sustained while serving his country in Vietnam". Yeah..... I met a guy who was paralyzed from the neck down when his Humvee rolled as he was jumping sand dunes for fun, 200 miles away from combat, in the waning days of the 1991 Gulf War. I feel bad for the guy, but I don't feel obligated to make him my Senator or when he blows that, give him a 156,000 salary at a taxpayer-provided featherbedding job because of it.

Why did Cleland 'fess up? Two possibilities come to mind.

1. Between Burkett's phone provider and Cleland's, one is likely to have a record of the call. If Staudt or anyone else files a suit over this, he won't be able to deny the fact of the call - only the content. Everyone knows from Watergate that the coverup is worse than the crime, and by admitting to having told Burkett to give his info to the Kerry campaign, he's not part of the coverup.

2. Max Cleland may have [obStarWarsRef] turned to the Dark Side, there is still good in him. He was willing to literally jump on a grenade to save the other members of his squad, so we know he's capable of 'taking one for the team'. But he's not going to aid in a coverup of forged documents - whoever did the forging is going down, and he's pissed as hell that they tried to implicate him as a conduit for them. He may even be having some thoughts about how his actions in the past led anyone to believe that he would stoop that low. At least I can hope so

Off Topic Warning !!!!

I have posted a link to a great article on J*K in the NYT by David Brookes. LOL.

http://tinyurl.com/3z9pt

bkw:

Take a lesson from the Clinton years. If too many names and accusations start flying, everybody can run for cover. I do not disagree that tracking down the source is important. However, If Burkett is the source and half the nutter he's made out to be, what've ya got on the Democrats? Nothing. If a Dem handed these things to Rather, so what? Nobody's surprised at that, and they get off the hook by saying 'we had our doubts, but figured CBS would fact check'.

Nope, we must continue to ride Dan Rather and CBS News hard and put 'em away wet until someone higher up at CBS and Viacom puts 'em out to pasture.

Monster Max Cleland may have [obStarWarsRef] turned to the Dark Side, there is still good in him. He was willing to literally jump on a grenade to save the other members of his squad, so we know he's capable of 'taking one for the team'

Not true. Cleland either "dropped" the grenade as he was jumping off a helicopter, somehow defeating 2 safties in the process, or he was fooling around with it - when it went off. No one else was within 300 feet of him.

Prior to his big boo-boo, though, Max did get a legit Silver Star for medivacing 2 wounded men under fire.

Going by his own website, Cleland was getting off of a helicopter when he saw the grenade. He thought it was one of his own so he bent down to pick it up, but it turned out to belong to another soldier who didn't have the pin set in correctly. It was basicly just a really bad accident. No bravery involved in the moment. His Silver Star came from a different incident previous to being blown up.

Top Ten list challenge: Things Dan Rather hates more than the internet right now.

Guys:
Please don't bash Cleland's service record. It smells of moonbattery and allows people who are not particularly partisian a way to tune out. It's a way for MSM and people wanting this story to go away to discount Ace's (and anyone who links to him) reports.I know I'm beating this horse awful hard, but it's the home stretch and I want to see us win this race.

The longer we keep the focus on Rather, the more moonbatty Kerry will get trying to stir up attention. Have you even seen Edwards in the last week? Its all good.

Speaking of cataclysmic explosions, when Rather's head finally pops will it be in the Classic Original Trilogy style, or the enhanced trilogy style?

I apologize the off topic query, but I need help researching rebuttals to common lies from the left,

* I need something debunking claims that Bush "disobeyed direct order". I also need a summary discreting that Kerry #3 contributor guy used as a source.

* I need a convincing newspaper article establishing the CBS docs are fraudulent, one that is convincing to someone center left. I have the LA times editorial mocking it, any other major lefty newspapers that mock it please tell me where the articles are, editorials are great on this one.

* I need articles detailing how the CBS people who "authenticated" the fraud docs actually warned him they weren't true, or had credibility problems themselves (the handwriting guy I have enough info on).

Any sources from mainstream papers is very helpful. I'm trying to do this on my own but could use a pointer or two.

Brett - you are wrong. Max was badly injured in an accident, no different than tens of thousands of other Veterans now on disability. What Cleland did differently is milk his "victimization" as entree` into higher office and lucrative book & appearance fees. Along the way, he let persist the myth that his PR folks pitched that "he gave three limbs in service to his country in Vietnam". Since Cleland is one of Kerry's most partisan attack dogs, calling Cheney a "coward, a Halliburton whore, and a draft dodger", Bush a "drunk, shallow frat boy who ducked when better men went to 'Nam, and was AWOL from the Guard"., and "Republicans only got him out of his Senate seat by attacking his patriotism"....well, you can either call Max on his own foibles - or dismiss him as a pathetic tool and pawn of smarter Democrats.

Either strategy has it's merits, and if it is the truth and not personal, it is hardly "moonbattery". You notice that GOP leadership hasn't ripped into him even after some of his outrageous personal attacks - because they prefer to treat Cleleand as a pathetic creature whose political days are over...But, on the other hand ending the widespread myth that Mad Max "gave his limbs for his country in Vietnam", and has little credibility, is just telling the truth. Saying he was dumped from the VA because he was a bad administrator and dumped as a Senator because he acted like a little Teddy Kennedy wannabe, and now is a bitter man with a massive sense of entitlement, is just telling the truth. Max Cleland isn't sacrosanct and above reproach because he is in a wheelchair, anymore than the bad behavior of any other American who was crippled in an accident is.

And if Cleland was involved in dirty tricks - more than just taking one phone call out of the blue from Burkett, then I hope he does end up on the short end of the stick. People are already strongly questioning how he campaigns full time for Kerry, yet has a 156,000 dollar job of major importance to US trade as Director of the Export Import Bank, where he is supposed to approve or disapprove 15 billion/yr in taxpayer-funded loan packages in weekly Board meetings - yet draws his Treasury check without having to show up for work.

Top 10 things Rather hates more then the Internet right now:

10. Microsoft Word

9. Listener's who can think for themselves

8. FAX Headers

7. ABC News

6. Current CBSNY Time POLL

5. KINKO

4. Newly released documents praising President Bush service

3. Dick Cheney

2. George H. W. Bush

1. George W. Bush

Ace, I think this calls for a flowchart. DID YOU SEE MY EMAIL??!!??

I need articles detailing how the CBS people who "authenticated" the fraud docs actually warned him they weren't true, or had credibility problems themselves (the handwriting guy I have enough info on).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21675-2004Sep14.html

megs, just check around various blogs like Allah, Beldar, INDC, Powerline, etc. They should all be available from Ace's blogroll.

Now even Bush is hammering the authenticity.

Thanks for the tip, but I was actually quoting another poster and giving them a link. /blush

I'm no good at tags. Are there tags here for quoting?

OK, I did some digging and it's time to declare Bull Shit on Cleland for saying a "certain Texan named Burkett" called him out of the blue.

It sure looks like Max has known of Burkett or has met him face to face on occasions in the past.

1. In 2000, Max was one of 3 Democrat Senators calling on Bush to release his National Guard records - from concerns that Bush didn't fulfill his duty and his records might have been tampered with (Burkett).

2. In 2000, Walter Robinson of the Globe interviewed both Cleland and Burkett about Bush's "missing Guard years".

3. In early February 2004, Cleland embraced the "Bush was AWOL" line that Burkett, Moore, and other Lefties had.

4. Cleland and Burkett both collaborated with James Moore in his writing of "Bush's War for Re-election". The two met in Texas. James Moore also had extensive contact with Cleland before, visiting him in DC for several interviews when writing "Bush's Brain".

5. On February 15th and 16th, Burkett and James Moore made the rounds denouncing Bush's Guard service after release of his records. They appeared together or separately on CBS evening news, CNN, Bill Mahre's HBO show, Paula Zahn, CBS today, MSNBC's hardball. On a few shows they brought up the "sliming of Max Cleland". On a few shows, Cleland was active at the same time, but appearing separately from Burkett and James Moore, denouncing Bush for "failing to do his duty".

6. Cleland and Burkett are both familiar to David Van Os.

7. Buzzflash interview with James Moore talks about his AWOL charges on Bush (based partially on Burkett's allegations) and his meetings with Cleland.

8. James Moore, one of Bush's 1st accusers on the National Guard service (1994), put out "Bush's flight from the Guard" on 4/27/04 that uses the Burkett charges.

LINKS:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36977

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4265280/
Meet the Press 2/15/04 Cleland says Bush was AWOL

http://www.correspondences.org/archives/000651.html
Burkett is interviewed on his Bush files allegations, the documents he said he saw.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=16829
James C. Moore on his work to prove Bush’s National Guard misconduct and his extensive meetings with Cleland in DC.

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2004/cyb20040216.asp
On how Burkett and Moore made the rounds to discuss Bush’s National Guard records.

******

From this background, I strongly doubt that Max Cleland didn't know who Bill Burkett was, the details of Burkett's crusade to show Bush was AWOL, and how it jibed with Max's own theme that Bush failed to serve. I think Burkett called Cleland because of their past acquaintance, mutual work with James Moore, and called knowing that Cleland could get his "smoking gun" documents directed into the heart of the Kerry campaign.

Cleland, in this interpretation, could have been the high-powered "go between". If he weighed in on the documents being the real thing, knowing how Rather loooved Max the Hero, maybe that is who Rather referred to as the "unimpeachable source".

Their (Burkett & Cleland's) version, that Burkett's stuff was passed on, but left ignored on some Kerry staffer's desk doesn't seem too credible...since the DNC coordinated release of "Favorite Son" simultaneously with 60 Minutes II....and all the action with CBS happened after the Cleland call - presumably upon Kerry's people pleased that they had stuff nailing down the AWOL charge giving loyal Democrat Burkett a green light to pass the documents on to the media, or OK'ing the Kerry people giving them up themselves.

cedarford:

That's some awesome research right there. Sorry if I went off a little higher up. I agree that any and all of Cleland's actions in public life (ie as a Senator and as a former Senator) are fair game. Go get 'em on that stuff. I re-read what you have posted and believe you've stuck to that and been very fair about that. My mistake.

Brett

Heres the entire Yahoo posting from 8/21...

Mitch and all Democrats,

This is long - but I urge you to read it.

I'm sorry but the whole strategy on this has been poor, slow of foot and anemic. It accents that Kerry is actually "flip flopping" in that he is slow to act, and then doesn't seem to have a single plan, but instead seems to have two plans.

First, we all knew the swift boat book and attack ads were coming. I knew about them in May, for God's sake. I saw postings on this site in Early July.

There didn't seem to be a clear plan. On the one hand, the Kerry team wanted to wait it out and say nothing and play the good guy role. Most of this was grounded in the same responsive approach Gore and Dukakis had used and it was obvious both that Bush would use this approach and the effect it would have. So why didn't we learn from the lessons?

Then we overestimated the impact and level of commitment of new found supporters gained from the convention. We began to believe our own press, and Kerry goes on vacation.

Now dammit, I've worked with Rove, Hughes, Bartlett and Bush. They knew he was a little "pretty". There was even a story about Rove's comments about Edwards being a little "pretty". What that means is that they knew he wouldn't be able to scrap. And they haven't.

So when someone claws Kerry what does he do, "Whine" to the FEC?

I spent some time on the phone with the Kerry campaign seniors yesterday after having to threaten to whip a little ass in order to get through seven layers of bureaucratic kids trying to get a job after the election. I talked with Max Clelend.

I hope he got the message, but even if he did, I'm not sure that his side of the issue can beat out the other half of the advisors. And that's a problem. There seem to be two factions within the Kerry advisors = one camp is the Gore holdover group who say play nice, we may make someone mad. The other includes people like Max Cleland who say kick ass. And the candidate can't seem to follow instincts and lay down some blood. The comments that he made Friday would have been effective if they'd been made the Monday after the convention, but two weeks later just doesn't work.

I'm concerned.

You have a candidate and all of us do. Your candidates are afraid to fight down and dirty. The people say they're sick of this- and they are. But Bush has nothing to lose. And he will do ANYTHING to get what he wants. SO when they do the attacks, if the turnout is lowered, as you are concerned, then he wins. If he scars Kerry, he wins. He wins in all directions unless there is a counterattack.

I said all of this to Max. I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money. He said counterattack. SO I gave them the information to do it with.

But none of them have called me back.

No, I'm sorry but until this party and this candidate learn to handle Bush, we in all honesty will lose this election. We have the emotion, the backlash, the issues, and discontent, but we don't have the passion for a fight. And that's what is about to get the elec tion tight enough that the dirty tricks in the voting booth and counting will work.

I've tried everything. Why do you think that my knowledge and ability was sufficient that I received death threat and actual shots fired at me? It's because I was willing not only to break ranks, but to fight. And I know how to fight them.

But the DNC is afraid of me, I guess, and afraid to do what I suggest.

John Edwards continues to be a non-factor. He won't fight.

So Kerry takes a vacation to go duck hunting, snowboarding, or something else every time he gets a slight lead. He doesn't know how to exploit success. This allows Bush to consolidate message, regain balance and regain momentum and then come back and kick butt.

Since Kerry just took away Moveon.org's counterattack, what the hell has he left himself? He has left himself as a piñata at the end of Karl Rove's baton. He will continue to receive attacks from 527s (it's ludicrous to think you could stop them), from the RNC, Cheney, Bush and he has just stacked arms - a unilateral disarmament - a cease fire negotiated by McCain - who has a dog in the fight (the other guy?).

NO ONE can tell me this is a well run campaign either by the candidate or the party.

I've volunteered to come back to come back out with more. Others have too. But this candidate doesn't know how to fight and the campaign organization seems destined to loss in spite of the victory handed it by circumstance.

I'm sorry, I hope I can change my observation - and soon. But every time we get momentum, we take a week off and lose focus.

George Bush is vulnerable on the issues. So put him on the defensive dammit.

And you don't do that by being a nice guy.

George Bush is vulnerable on leadership and you have to point it out.

The scores for the convention were a six on a scale of 1-10. But the follow through was anemic and lacked focus.

You can't wait for someone to attack you in these campaigns. You must be prepared for someone to attack you and respond immediately and in force. That's

what's missing. Some of you call it James Carville. I call it common sense.

And let this be a message for us in Texas.

Now I know I scare some of you - and some of you just aren't up for leaving any blood on this battlefield. But it's going to take some blood if we are going to take this country and this state back from the Bush's Rove's Delays, Hughes, Perrys and Parrys. If you aren't willing to scrap in this campaign - you'll be fighting for scraps throughout the rest of history of our country. It's that important and that simple.

For me, I've been to war. Most of you have quickly forgotten that I was the insider who broke ranks with the Bush Team and fought them in the legislature when our Democratic State legislators and LT. Gov were in bed with Bush to make him President. I fought many of the people whom you now consider HEROS because of Ardmore and Albuqurque. Why? because Bush was as corrput in Texas as he has been in Washington. And I exposed it.

While I hear all of you commenting and cannonizing the Repblicans who have jumped ship from the Bush Administration - Ambassador Wilson, Paul O'Neill, Richard Clarke, etc and then watching as the Modereate Republicans like Richard Holbrooke, and John McCain take to the headlines building compromise and disarmament, I know that I was one of the first on June 25, 1997; followed by the funergate scam and others.

If you want to turn this cuntry around, it can't be done with Bush in the White House. If you want to return freedom to our streets, it can't be done with Bush in the White House and Ashcroft as DOJ. So quit letting Ashcroft hide. Call him out.

If you want fiscal responsibility returned, you can't have that with Bush in the White House and the senate under the control of the Republicans.

Do more than talk. Be ready to gird up and go into battle. And when you go to battle there are scars. This isn't a gentlemanly event. It's war. And in war people get cut up, injured and killed. Take some risk. Be a leader nationally and at home. Quit just waiting for this victory to come to you so you can get some nice appointment out of it. If you wait, it will be a very long wait.

Bill Burkett

Cedarford---

Nice work. I also wonder if perhaps some of the contacts with may have been coincident with Cleland's preposterous stunt to deliver a letter to Bush at his ranch in Crawford. (I believe Crawford is near Abilene. Please correct me if it isn't.)

Oh come on cedar, EVERYONE has Cleland's cellphone number.

/sarcasm

Nice work.

SIDE NOTE: Comment Submission Error
Your comment submission failed for the following reasons:

Your comment could not be submitted due to questionable content: cell_phone

Please correct the error in the form below, then press Post to post your comment.

"Cleland confirmed that he had a two- or three-minute conversation by cell_phone with a Texan named Burkett in mid-August while he was on a car ride."

Just wondering...how did Burkett get Cleland's cell_phone number....or who called who?