"Rating: 3"? A solid 6, my friend. I'm playing it close to the vest because if even a few small details of these guys' stories don't check out, our enlightened media will crucify them and dismiss the whole thing out of hand. If you want to take a leftist candidate down, there's no margin for error. Let's hope they're equal to the task.

I note in passing my disappointment that I received no trademark McLaughlin-by-way-of-Carvey nickname. (E.g., Eleanor "Gee, I think you're swell-anor" Clift.) Although I grant that "Allah" isn't the easiest handle to riff on.

It's just so fucking weird to see a man from a political movement and generation that DEFINED itself by its opposition to the Vietnam War, and no doubt harbored pride and self-righteousness from that opposition, turn about face and TOUT participation in that war........in order to demonstrate they're capable of leading in another war they deny even exists.

The contradictions are too much for me to handle.

Genius. Pure genius. I should buy you and the Moon God a drink.

Well, the liberals have their response for this damaging ad ... today, all the news is about those dirt-bag bands going on tour. Bad news? DISTRACT, DISTRACT. Or, should I say, the timing of the tour announcements are suspiciously timed?

That analysis was a work of art.

Sure, the libs can spout off whatever they want and the media will carry on with it but it's different for conservatives; the SwiftVets will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what they say is true. And regardless, the proof won't be enough for the media. My (reserved, hope it's not true but could be) prediction is that this will not have any effect on Kerry because the media will claim it is unsubstantiated and will ignore it unless the media can find a hole in any of the stories to exploit. Having said that, I haven't seen the ad. I plan to later today. I just hope it gets equal play time to the populace like the band tour will.

hinzman

Wrong!

Wait . . . I mean: Correct, sir!

This bust in Albany should prove interesting mostly due to its "timing" something tells me the dems wont be bitchin' too much .

Ace, how about some predictions on how the nightly news will try to spin the revelations.

The correct answer is between a 6 and an 8?

Wouldn't that be, ummm...7?

I was on a buoy tender and a tug boat in the Coast Gurad. The former does 7 knots and the latter 11. When we get to the issue of what slow boat veterans think, I'll weigh in.

Ace,

nice theme and structure for link-whoring. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Seriously, it's a genuine compliment. Like the Commisar's yearbook or the original blogistan map, but with far more insight, work, and genuine thought/analysis going into it. Practically Belmont Club in the analysis department, actually.

This should get you some well-deserved attention (and not just the banal trackback variety).

Good show old man.

I bet John Kerry had his butler kick the t.v. in when he saw that ad.

Mainstream media watch:

Seattle Times editorial - "This Band of Brothers Has Different View of Kerry" by Collin Levey

It will be interesting to see where the cracks in the media dike first appear. I think this will be a major factor in the following ways:

1) The Nobody-Likes-Kerry negative feedback loop. The press have been biting their tongues over this guy the whole campaign. If he starts to give of the whiff of "can't win", they will begin to unload on him. At that point, not only will they be venting spleen over what a jerk he is, but also over how he will be perceived as blowing a winnable election for the Democrats. The process feeds on itself resulting in candidate implosion. This is not impossible, but I rate it as only a1 in 10 chance of actually happening.

2) You can’t stop them. Given the current campaign finance laws, there simply isn't a way to keep this stuff off the air. Hell, all they really have to do is get the ad to play in Columbus, OH, and a couple of cities in Florida, and they have changed the dynamic of the race. A 2% swing in each of those states is trivial in terms of the popular vote, but it would be potentially decisive in the electoral college. Chance of effective information blockade, minimal.

3) Finally, and most likely, is that this forces Kerry to defend himself. The charge is too credible to go unanswered. The answering of the charge is news that has to dominate a news cycle (or else the charge hasn't been effectively answered), and surrogates probably won’t be adequate. Once it has dominated a news cycle, Kerry's main rationale for being elected has been tarnished, and it could only be restored if it turns out that these guys are a bunch of flat-out liars. When we see Kerry publicly refuting this charge, then I'd say the election is over except for outside events (mainly terrorists) and the debates.

I think someone could score a "10" if they would make an ad leaving Kerry's war record alone and slam him instead for his anti-American after-war activities. Pictures of him throwing his ribbons, etc. etc. That slice of history is so dark and so stark, it would be chilling ... Kerry, no friend of America ...

>this forces Kerry to defend himself.

I don't really think it does. He will just scream "dirty tricks" "attack" "attack"

The spin now is that none of the vets criticising Kerry actually served on his boat (see Drudge story re McCain angry). Does anyone know how many of the Swiftvets against Kerry were on his boat? That seems to me the most important thing in defending or refuting the ad.

Does anyone know how many of the Swiftvets against Kerry were on his boat? That seems to me the most important thing in defending or refuting the ad.

Not a single one.

Well if none of guys in the ad were actually on Kerry's boat it seems pretty obvious to me that the Dems will be able to spin this their way. Sounds like it will be a 3 on your scale Ace. However, I've heard conflicting stories on just which vets are for and against Kerry. Is it true that most of the guys who were on his boat don't support him now? If so are they talking about it in public? If this thing is going to take off it matters a hell of lot what the guys who were actually on Kerry's boat are saying. Not so much the guys who happened to be in Vietnam at the time.

One of them is the doctor who treated Kerry's flesh wound that gave him his first Purple Heart. Most of them are fellow officers that served with him, most likely during the 6 months BEFORE he took over the swiftboat.

Every single soldier who was on Kerry's boat with him, support him. Except, of course, the one who is dead.

WRONG!!!

One of Kerry's boatmates is as against him as any of these guys.

But keep repeating that, dude. Just keep saying it over and over again.

You don't need to be on Kerry's boat to be a an eyewitness to certain exploits. These old guys are limiting their testimony to what they saw. You nincompoops are (unwittingly, of course) setting up a straw man test for credibility.

I forgive you for not knowing better.

Among the swift boat vets that are not Kerry fans are the skipper he replaced ... the one who actually experienced the battle Kerry's folks claimed ... and the skipper that replaced Kerry after his very short term

Ace: You're right. Sorry. Stephen M. Gardner is the lone crewmember who served under Kerry who's against him.

The Tenth Brother

Excerpt:

Which brought the interview to the crux of Gardner’s beef against Kerry. Gardner—who remembers no important dates or times or locales—claims that Kerry once threatened him with a court martial. The incident happened when Gardner, who told me he had “no trouble shooting gooks,” saw a Viet Cong guerilla with an AK-47 in a boat and started firing. “I lay the hammer down on him,” Gardner explains. “I just put a finger on the gun: boom, boom, boom, boom. He’s done. He got flipped out of the boat, he went straight down. That’s when Kerry came running out of the guntub screaming ‘ceasefire, ceasefire, ceasefire.’ Then he turned to me and said, ‘I ought to have you court-martialed for shooting.’ I said, ‘Hmmph…sorry big boy. When somebody brings a gun up on me I’m gonna shoot and I’ll ask questions later ‘cause I ain’t goin’ back in a body bag.’”

Ace:

For the record, my daddy hung that first name on me. My mama was mislead by his incomplete intelligence gathering.

Otherwise this is one brilliant post, you sick bastard.

Ace:

For the record, my daddy hung that first name on me. My mama was mislead by his faulty intelligence gathering, and therefore cast a vote for his decision.

But the reality is that this is one brilliant post, you sick bastard.

Wow, Batman, impressive. Kerry threatens to court-martial a man for shooting an armed enemy, then gets himself a medal for shooting an UNarmed enemy. That convinces me! I'm gonna pull a Sully and vote Kerry now!