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Man, I *love* it when Joe Lieberman talks tough!

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

27 percent of academics think there will be a stable democracy in Iraq? Who are these guys?

Man, I *love* it when Joe Lieberman talks tough!

Dave, be serious. I think it should be pretty obvious that was Al Gore interrupting.

More and more Democratic "angles" can be predicated on Iraq being a success, not a failure. Basically, any news about us leaving Iraq can be massaged into something helpful for the Dems.

And you know what? I'll take that. Maybe it's the cool fall air in my lungs, or maybe it's the breakfast tacos, but I'm starting to think that we might see more strident support for the war like this Kaplan crap in the future from the Dem leadership. It will work like cake because the war is going well and hopefully will continue to do so.

So now troop drawdowns are a serious possibility and they want to take credit? Fine, it's a killer opportunity and they should. They can have the credit for troop drawdowns. Claim they were in favor of Iraq ALL ALONG MAN ALL ALONG, whatever, I don't care.

They're going to write the textbooks anyway, so let them claim credit if the job's getting done the right way.

Joe may be liberal around the edges, but he is a good man.
Too bad he's a J.E.W.

;>)

Too bad he's a J.E.W.

Acutally it *is* too bad - it pretty much eliminates him from serious consideration as Commander in Chief in a war on radical Islam.

a survey of American elites that found that 64% of military officers are confident that we will succeed in establishing a stable democracy in Iraq. The comparable figures for journalists and academics are 33% and 27%, respectively.

Journalists and academics are America's elite? God help us.

Is that Pew Research's wording or the LA Times?

"Good to know that there are still one or two Democrats who get it."

Lieberman and who? Seriously -- name one other sitting Dem who is standing up on this issue. Just one. You can't do it off the top of your head, can you?

That ^^^ was me. It was a bug in the switcher.

I think Zell Miller's head is screwed on straight, but he doesn't get much coverage.

Heck, for that matter my own Democratic Congressman, Chet Edwards, is pretty solid on the war, but I'm sure his excuse is Ft. Hood (1st Cav, deployed, 4th ID, back home, 13th COSCOM, mostly deployed) is in his district.

Fun graphic of the day from the Pew Research poll cited above

http://people-press.org/reports/images/263-7.gif

The whole report is at:

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=263

Hey, Lieberman helps me keep my bona-fides as someone who doesn't just vote straight party line. My "other democratic senator", Chris Dodd is going further and further off to the left.

Lieberman and who? Seriously -- name one other sitting Dem who is standing up on this issue. Just one. You can't do it off the top of your head, can you?

Sure I can; Zelll Miller.

Well, Zell Miller is no longer a 'sitting Dem,' so he doesn't really meet the criteria set out by Phil.

forgot he retired from the Senate.

Anyway, I surely get the point, there aren't many. I've got my one congressman, even though nobody ever heard of him (and I didn't even vote for him).

Heck, my Republican senators aren't even standing up on this issue, unless it's to whine to the cameras about how bad things are going and how Bush's tax cuts have led to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, or something like that.

Gads, I hate them both.

Boy, that's true. My girl Republican Senator could beat up both your girl Republican senators with one hand tied behind her back.

I really like Joe Lieberman. The guy has paid a high price for his principles. (Or, to put another spin on it, for being in the wrong political party.)

Watching him get knifed in the back by Gore (who, despite their history together, didn't even have the courtesy to tell Joe that he was gonna endorse Kerry over him in the primaries) was sad. And watching him maintain his principles and try in vain to prevent the democratic party from driving off a cliff is both inspiring and depressing.

The guy is all right.

The guy is all right.

Yeah, I'd have been awfully tempted to vote for him in 2004, though the firestorm that would have ignited among the Arab nations (and Cedarford) would have set us back aplenty in the GWOT.

Joe sucks. This is the same guy who tried to steal an election, remember? Joe Lieberman was solidly on-board with that whack-job AlGore.

I don't know. I think it would be good for them to face up to their phobias. Force the issue a little. I don't think it would set us back to any significant degree. It might even move us forwards.

"Joe sucks. This is the same guy who tried to steal an election, remember? Joe Lieberman was solidly on-board with that whack-job AlGore."--Bart

Yes, I remember that well. I also remember his many Lieberman's many flip-flops during that campaign. For that reason, I have little respect for him. He's right about Iraq, though!

Yeah, I guess so. Oh well. Maybe he's seeing the error of his ways after going through what he's been through these past few years? I can always hope.

Joe and Hillary. Hillary put down Murtha the same day Cheney did.

I think Hillary will be president in 2008 and after Bush, she might be about the same on domestic policy...jeez I feel sick saying that.

I think Hillary stands a very good chance of winning. On the bright side, she'll have a republican-controlled congress to at least partially keep her from doing anything too crazy.

I wonder who Hillary will choose to play Monica's role? $5 says it's John McCain. And you know what? More power to him.

80% of Iraqis want the US to leave.

Increasingly, Iraqis are defining the US occupation as the problem, not the solution. Of course this is what Murtha said, so I'll get flayed for pointing this out, but what if the longer the US stays there, the stronger the anti-American sentiment?

One of the problems rarely mentioned when reciting the numbers of trained Iraqi forces is that many believe the forces are infiltrated by anti-US personnel. Certainly the police forces in some towns are, with people being executed for "collaborating" with the coalition forces.

That ain't good.

But it's a time to be thankful, right? I'm thankful that the Constitution isn't totally dead yet.

I think Hillary stands a very good chance of winning. On the bright side, she'll have a republican-controlled congress to at least partially keep her from doing anything too crazy.

I think we established on another thread that Hillary's ventury into "crazy" would probably mean something as revolutionary as promoting Federal reg coverage of daycares, or increasing minimum wage, or supporting job training programs.

I think giving workers the keys to the means of production has been postponed indefinitely.

Here I am again doing my best impression of Tokyo Rose.

I'm here for the sole purpose of delivering propaganda. Over and over I spew the same talking points.

I have nothing better to do than troll conservative sites and try to demoralize the readers. I am a pathetic loser who spends many hours each day on the net only to agitate others.

Propaganda, spin, lies, rumors, conjecture.

The war was illegal, Joe.

Get out while you still can, Joe.

They no want you here no more, Joe.

They hate you, Joe.

Quagmire.

Disaster.

All lies.

War crimes.

What happened to the $8 billion?

Your government is lying to you.

Your soldiers are getting killed for nothing.

Bring them home, Joe.

Tubino, you are a big fucking loser. You really are and I'm starting to feel sorry for you. At first I thought you were merely a persistent pain in the ass. Now I can see you have a real sickness. See a doctor, dude. For your own good, seek help.

I think giving workers the keys to the means of production has been postponed indefinitely.

"Means of production"?

Tubby.

Here's a tip.

Using obvious Marxist catch-phrases is not going to earn you much cred on this site.

BRING BACK CEDARFORD!

I work on computers for a living. I tend to do my coding on a computer... which I own.

I also have a 401k and an IRA and some individual stocks. (Which, to spell it out explicitly, makes me the owner of a small part of some publicly traded companies.)

Hmm. I work for a living, but it looks like I do own some means of production.

If one wants to force things into a Marxist mold, then it has to be admitted that in America and other modern societies, the workers are increasingly becoming part of the ever-expanding capitalist class. It's almost as if Marx's predictions were wrong. But, you know, to admit this would require honesty.

But, you know, to admit this would require honesty.

Have you read Ann Coulter's latest?

It is about the progress in Iraq and the Democrats.

http://anncoulter.org/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

80% of Iraqis want the US to leave.

That dovetails neatly with the 100% of Americans who want the US to leave.

I think we established on another thread that Hillary's ventury into "crazy" would probably mean something as revolutionary as promoting Federal reg coverage of daycares, or increasing minimum wage, or supporting job training programs.

Naw, that's just where we stopped bothering. Your redefinition of her economic agenda was completely unsourced and unconvincing.

Polls Shmolls. We all know that polls are hardly scientific or reliable data. We know that the phrasing of survey questions are leading. And we know that "random" samples are subject to random tweaking, intentionally or very intentionally.

Powerline digs through the dirt to uncover some of Pew's methodology. It is interesting and worth a look.

Click me!
http://www.powerlineblog.com/

Bart, thanks for the tip. The scepticism was already there since few of the people I know have any problem with the war, but it's nice to see someone took time to analyze the latest agitprop.

And let me be the first to say it: Cliff May is on effin' fire.

Bravo.