Nice concise rebuttal to the asshats, ace.

Ace, I just came up with a great political strategery.

We know that claims that the Bush administration lied are silly and completely unfounded. In fact, as you pointed out, we can give example after example of statements made by the very people making those claims now that agree with the claims that Bush made, so we don't have anything to worry about there.

So here's what Republican's should do...

In a heralded press conference, Frist should acknowledge that if the Bush Administration mischaracterized intelligence to influence the public to support the war it would, indeed, represent a very serious issue and it should be investigated (a third time). He should also point out that if others had similarly misrepresented intelligence to undermine public support of the war and respect for the US around the globe, that this also represents a very serious issue.

He should then call for an investigation of intelligence regarding Iraq and public statements made by officials dating back to 1998, and encourage the Democrats to cooperate as well, so that Americans can finally put this divisive debate behind them.

Also your Senator is a fire breathing war monger. This speech sent us into Iraq,

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

this quote ends all debate -

“The intelligence which the president shared with us was in line with what we saw in the White House…”
- Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, 2003

No, ace, don't you see? History reset itself, like a car's odometer turning over, in 2001. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

How many of them offered up invasion and occupation as their desired course of action regarding Iraq/Saddam?

I don't know - how many of them voted for it?

Look, I think we can all agree that Bush using Clinton's intelligence on Iraq, was in itself negligence. I mean, come on, Clinton just made that shit up when he needed to distract the country. Its like Kerry going to church, noone actually believes he believes that stuff.

Ace and friends can drag up quotes of people who are or were nominally adults when they voted to go to war, or supported Clinton when he bombed the fuck out of Iraq, but it wont matter. The level of discourse has reached the point where nothing matters to these people. They have reached the full level of complete disengagement from reality. I call them ARBCos, but they are just plain batshit. Just have fun with them because otherwise, you will go crazy.

"How many of them offered up invasion and occupation as their desired course of action regarding Iraq/Saddam?"

Just the ones that voted for it. Of course, Clinton's term was prior to 9/11. The priority seemed a bit different, after that, what with everyone ALSO AGREEING that Saddam was supporting terrorists...which, of course, they also deny, NOW!

Then, of course, I'm wondering, what changed about the intelligence, between 1998 and 2003?
Did Bush, "manipulate," all that intelligence too? He must have had some incredible foresight for a stupid chimp!

Don't be an idiot, JannyMae, of course Bush did not plan that out. Bush is teh dumb. Rove did it.
Sorry, could not resist.

Reading Democraticunderground.com, they seem to think that the intelligence that persuaded the Democrats in 2002 to vote for war was distorted by Bush. Never mind the statements of Kerry in 2002 for war is entirely consistent with his statements about the threat Saddam posed because of his WMD programs.

Ted Kennedy at the time argued against invasion of Iraq BECAUSE Saddam had WMDs and was certain to use them to save his regime from US invasion.

Also, I am not sure how Bush and his cabal could have altered the intelligence the Senate Intelligence committee probably gets straight from the CIA itself.

But as joeindc says, it doesn't matter to people who have a tenuous grasp on reality and a "BUSH LIED" mantra repeating itself in their heads.

Wow, that's the first time I've ever seen "democraticunderground.com" and "intelligence" in the same sentence.

It sure seems like the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq already covered this ground.

It sure seems like the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence's Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq already covered this ground.

Yeah, but the Democrats didn't get the result they wanted so they are demanding a "do over." Sound familiar?

Geoff, you mean the one that concluded that there was no manipulation of intelligence? It's obviously, "wrong," therefore we need ANOTHER inquiry...and if that comes out, "wrong," we'll do another one.......

The dirty secrets of closed door meetings what kind of plots were hatched in the closed door meetings? theres something rotten in denmark as they say

"Geoff, you mean the one that concluded that there was no manipulation of intelligence? It's obviously, "wrong," therefore we need ANOTHER inquiry...and if that comes out, "wrong," we'll do another one......."

Oh, I get it! It's like Florida in 2000!

Let's be clear: In October 1998, President Clinton signed the document making regime change the official US foreign policy toward Iraq.

The fact that he didn't actually do anything about it is damning to him, not to his predecessor who inherited the situation.

not to his predecessor who inherited the situation.

uh, hopefully that's his successor, otherwise I'm my own grandpa.

History reset itself, like a car's odometer turning over, in 2001.

Curse you, Francis Fukuyama!

The Anchoress has lots of good pre-Bush quotes on WMD. I'd give a link, but the filter doesn't like part of her URL today.

You know, Hitler never attacked the US. He attacked our forces when they "invaded" and "occupied" Europe. Maybe we shouldn't have done that, either!

People wondering why Bush relied on Clinton era intelligence forget how the 2000 election ended. The Gore attempt to steal the presidency delayed Bush getting his team in place and getting clearances. He ended up leaving some of the old personnel in place to maintain some continuity. Everybody above the janitors level at State and CIA should have been tossed in 2001. Seems half the folks at both of those outhouses don't understand they should work for their boss not against him.

More quotes at Glenn Beck's site.

I agree 100%. Everyone who supported *going to war* who had a vote in it should be held accountable if they knew the complete facts. Be it Democrats or Republicans. Meaning they knew that the intelligence information wasn't accurate.

For those, Republicans and Democrats, who didn't know it was accurate they shouldn't be held accountable.

Are you saying the Bush administration withheld the "complete facts" from the Democrats and that's why they shouldn't be held accountable for their votes to support the war?

And I suppose the evil Karl Rove is responsible for foolin' all of those Democrats who talked about WMD before Bush was president, too, right?

I smell a meme coming on, and it's a stinky one.

As far as investigations go. There has been no honest, bipartisan investigation. All the investigations have been lead by *Republicans* so of course they won't provide the truth and go against Bush knowing it'd be a black mark on them. Of course, you guys are saying those Niger documents are real? You are saying that for 100% sure there was a threat of WMD by Iraq and Saddam?

There has been no solid evidence WHATSOEVER of Saddam having WMD.

I don't care for the Clintons. Honestly, I think Clinton was only a couple notches above Bush in terms of how good of a President he was. And Bush is literally at the bottom of the barrel from my perspective. Clinton isn't to far behind in my book.

Another thing. Why is Bush worrying about Iran or Syria when he cannot even handle whats going on in Iraq? Or the fact that we are in a major crisis here in American?

Honestly. Even if there is a justification for this war in Iraq shouldn't our priorities be for our own country first?

Like perhaps they can address the fact that our job industry is leaking away into other countries? If this continues it'll spread into other areas of work. Anything that can be done overseas will be done there.

Think about your jobs. Consider what you do. Once your company gets a hint that it can be cheaper in another country you and your family are screwed. Your next option will be to make $6.00 working at Wal-Mart.

The only way you'll be able to prevent this is to take cuts to your income. See that is the big business, corporate game. Deport the jobs overseas to the lowest waged workers unless workers here start agreeing to lower wages.

It'll spread trust me. Once one corporation/business sees they can make more profits another one will follow suit.

The only ones that may not have to fear this are investors in those corporations/businesses who make more money from it. For those investors who feel its ok that middle and lower class families are struggling more and more you are the type of person that are destroying this country.

Thanks to you my family is struggling and living paycheck to paycheck. This is not because we cannot manage our money it is because everything is going up: healthcare, energy, food, interest rates on many things.

If you guys are not in this type of situation you cannot understand the hardship it is causing. INcreased stress, increased hours of work, decreased family activities and so forth.

I'm not going to have to search for a second job because of this so that my entire family is insured.

See, you guys don't see this perspective. You don't get the fact that Republicans have done nothing to at least relieve some of the stress.

And I bet I work harder than 99.9% of any of you or any Republican. But I guess its fair because I wasn't as fortunate and didn't grow up in a rich family right?

Note: I'm not asking for handouts or saying I deserve to be rich like others I'm pleading for people to understand the situation for some of us Americans who don't make the money you do.

geoff, woops, yah I meant successor.

I posted that damn thing in several forms before this darn hinky comments thing actually accepted it. Brain fart.

How many of them offered up invasion and occupation as their desired course of action regarding Iraq/Saddam?

You know, if there were any consistency whatsoever to the anti-war faction, we might have taken them more seriously.

But when I told my (former) marxist friend in 2002 about how Clinton had bombed the shit out of Iraq in 1998, he had never heard of it. There were no mass protests, no letter-writing campaigns of note, no campus rallies to herald that event.

And apparently the meme in lefty circles in 2002-03 was that Bush was the one who changed the policy from containment to regime change.

I corrected my friend and showed him that it was Clinton who changed the US foreign policy to regime change.

His response, in too many more words than necessary was, "well, but he didn't actually DO it..."

I'm just asking those who care about other human beings to take a moment to analyse what is going on and why people are protesting against this Administrations and are against the Republicans.

I'm only still posting here and in other places, despite the ridicule and hatred and constant bashing and name calling, because I still feel there are good people who do truly care but just don't see it from another perspective.

AlanB, you don't sound very American to me.

As far as rich republicans goes, I am a republican but come from a humble blue-collar background and am still a humble blue-collar person though I own my own little place.

So Fuck Off.

I hope your financial situation stabilzes, Alan, but you didn't address my questions.

Do you believe the Bush administration misled the Senate by deliberately changing the intelligence, and how do you explain the Clinton focus on WMD?

Also, we're not all rich plutocrats twirling our moustaches in delight at the thought of screwing the little guy. And I wasn't born into wealth. I worked my ass off to get where I am today. Which, incidentally, is not even close to wealthy.

And I bet I work harder than 99.9% of any of you or any Republican. But I guess its fair because I wasn't as fortunate and didn't grow up in a rich family right?

What do you do for a living AlanB?
And why do you assume that at least 50% of the country doesn't work as hard as you?

All the investigations have been lead by *Republicans* so of course they won't provide the truth and go against Bush knowing it'd be a black mark on them.

Nice libelous intro. Lean on objectivity, but excellent foreshadowing for your audience.

Of course, you guys are saying those Niger documents are real?

Nobody has claimed that the Niger documents are real - in fact we didn't even hear about them until they had already been discredited. But the strawman argument blends smoothly with your style.

You are saying that for 100% sure there was a threat of WMD by Iraq and Saddam?

We have said that believing in the threat was reasonable in the pre-invasion timeframe. Escalating that into your '100%' strawman is again, stylistically consistent.

Another thing. Why is Bush worrying about Iran or Syria when he cannot even handle whats going on in Iraq?

Maybe because Iran and Syria have both contributed significantly to the violence in Iraq. So they're topical in a sort of directly relevant way.

You don't get the fact that Republicans have done nothing to at least relieve some of the stress.

The conservative philosophy is to allow the market to govern these situations, since the government invariably screws it up and charges an outrageous premium to do so. That said, the administration has recently placed an emphasis on government-sponsored R&D that supports domestic manufacturing. A small change, but a sign that the administration recognizes the importance of shoring up the foundations of the economy.

The question to you is: "How can US employment be protected without killing US industry?" The higher prices we create by restricting offshore work will eventually be undercut by foreign products, crippling our companies and creating unemployment anyway.

It's a tough situation, and one that requires clever positioning to make your career export-proof. But government intervention is a reliably poor option. Good luck.

Alan, you can't live in this country without being able to recite the moonbat mantras chapter and verse. Maybe you should spend more time listening to what we inherently dishonest and evil Republicans have been saying instead of the other way around. Otherwise, what lauraw said works great for me too.

And I bet I work harder than 99.9% of any of you or any Republican.

Maybe, but not my butler, pal. Or my gardener. Or Lilly, my argentinian chef who always cuts the lemon wedges for my ice tea paper thin like I like.

Me? I'm just the schmuck who makes their hard work possible. But I suppose that doesn't mean anything to you! I suppose my contribution counts for naught. Yep, take me away and you've only put those people out of work, put them on the street.

Is that what you'd like? It is isn't it? put three decent people out of work just to teach me a lesson? And you say you care for the people.

Oh, you people who work for a living are all such hypocrites. You make me sick (and not just cause you all smell either). Sick, I tell you!

Thanks to you my family is struggling and living paycheck to paycheck.

You're welcome. Anything else we can do for you?

Oh, and Alan, about the whole "You're all so selfish and rich while I'm struggling with poverty because you are sucking up all the money" bit: You don't know the first thing about any of us. Not where we come from, where we are, how we got there or what we learned along the way.

Blow me.

There has been no solid evidence WHATSOEVER of Saddam having WMD.

Yeah, Alan, you're right. I bet all those Kurds just dropped dead in where they stood in the streets from natural causes.

Go to hell, Alan. I'm a first generation college student who earned a full ride on scholarships. If not for my scholarships I would be going to community college because that's all my blue collar parents can afford. You call that rich, moron? Take your ridiculous caricatures somewhere else idiot.

AlanB - And your life was perfect up until 2001? Everything that sucks about your life is all about Bush isn't it? You are a walking psych testbook.

I guess 3.5% + annualized GDP and 5% unemployment is just to F'n harsh - eeek, it's like 1998 all over again - God, if you can't get at least an entry level job in this economy then either move to an area with a more dynamic economy (horrors - a red state) or bitchslap yourself. Yes outsourcing is an issue - and it didn't start in 2001.

Thanks to you my family is struggling and living paycheck to paycheck. This is not because we cannot manage our money it is because everything is going up: healthcare, energy, food, interest rates on many things.

That's the difference between me and you, pal. I control my own destiny.

God, what a fucking loser. If you can't get ahead with the retards surrounding you at your job, then you're either stupid, lazy or both.

I had some crybaby whining to me at work just the other day about how he wants to train for a new position, but the company won't schedule him for training.

When I told him that I worked my way into my (better paying) job from a part-time, poverty wage position by coming and and training on my own time, he looked at me like I was crazy. I then told him that both my promotions came this way - working a full shift, then staying an extra 4-5 hrs hours each night to learn new equipment and technology.

All it takes to get ahead in this society is hard work, some people skills, and a little common sense. Ain't my problem if pussy-assed lefties like you can't make it happen. Tough fuckin shit. Go join a protest or something.

This is not because we cannot manage our money it is because everything is going up: healthcare, energy, food, interest rates on many things.

Hmmm Inflation in an expanding economy - of course, if interest rates don't go up, then other prices will go up even faster. On a dollar adjusted basis, gas is still much cheaper than it was during the oil shocks plus modern cars use a lot less than they did 25 years ago - look at the comparative fuel economy for equivalent sized cars - even a big engine like the GM small block 8 plus gas represents a much smaller portion of the overall household budget then it did 25 years ago, since wage growth has consistently been ahead of inflation. Does it pinch, yeah, and for people who have to use a car a lot for work it hurts, but this is at least in part the result of not building refineries for 20 years. Besides I thought that you lefties WANTED higher gas prices so as to encourage the switch to alternatives?

I guess food has gone up a bit, but not a lot -a weaker dollar might be the cause with respect to imports - but the way to strengthen the dollar is to raise interest rates.

Is healthcare inflation about 4x that of core inflation? - yup, and that's the price we pay for rapidly improving medical technology, as well as runaway lawsuits - which manifest themselves in sky-high insurance premiums. Tort reform time.

Interest rates are still historically low, though certainly creeping up. This is a necessity and probably overdue with the economy running so warm. We needed cheap money in the aftermath of 9/11, but it's time to tighten up a bit to control inflation and support the dollar.

Well, that's the long version , here's the short version"

Alan, u r 2 s2pid to liv in a m r ket economy - FOAD

Dearest whiny AlanB: I am one of those rich republicans. Every day I go to work at 6:15 A.M. and get off work at 4 P.M. I got my job because I graduated in economics from U.C. Berkeley and law school. I paid for all that education out of the money I saved from volunteering to serve in the army during the Vietnam War. I received some of the money from the G.I. bill. From the time I was seven years old I worked on a farm. I have never been unemployed. I've worked as a soldier, farmehand, lawyer(private practice and prosecutor), truck driver,property appraiser, property manager, and stock broker. It's surprising what you can do with effort, brains and determination if you don't give up. It comes as absolutely no surprise that you are a loser. The reason you are a loser is because you choose to be a loser. There is nothing in this country that can stop you from being a success except YOU. I didn't buy my first new car until I was 51 years old. It wasn't until my wife and I had been married four years that we could afford a dish washer. BUT we always saved. Some of the places we lived in you could see the grass in the front yard without looking through a window because the gap between the boards in the wall were so wide. But at $65 per month rent, we really saved money. Let me give you a clue: saving $167 per month for 40 years @12% compounded growth is $1,000,000 before tax. Who can't figure out how to save $167 per month? Nearly any real estate residential rental will perform at least 12% compounded annually counting rents and inflation or you might even buy some stock. For example Exxon Mobile has returned in excess of 14% compouned annually for 65 years. Just how foolish are you, that you would live in a free country where you can choose your line of work, live where you choose, associate with whomever you choose, invest your money as you choose and yet can't figure out how to be happy and successful. You're one of the biggest fools ever.

See, in AlanB's world, there are two kinds of Republicans: cold-hearted, fat cat plutocrats who enjoy ripping off the little people...and toothless beer-swilling rednecks who vote Republicans because the R's cleverly talk about Jesus so much. This is why AlanB and his kind are always shocked by elections. Who knew there were so many wicked rich people and mouth-breathing bible-thumping idiots in modern America? We're doomed!

In the AlanB cartoon universe, there's no conception that conservatism is underpinned by a philosophy. Not a selfish groping toward personal wealth, but a ideological framework for making whole societies wealthier and happier. Including the least among us. The left has continually had to move the goalposts to ensure we have enough poor people left in this country to support their anti-poverty programs. Nowadays, you can be poor and have plenty of food, shelter and clothing, two cars and a color TV with cable. Now it's all about the gap between those who have least and those who have most. The poor are getting richer, and the rich are getting a buttload richer. Oh, no!!!

He probably does work harder than me, though. I'm a lazy, underachieving Republican (that muffled bang you heard was AlanB's head exploding). I work as hard as I have to to make the bills, then I knock off and go play. I'm perpetually a little short, but manage to catch up when I need to. Last I checked, my income was smack in the middle of the median of the average. I'll probably never be able to retire, but I won't be a burden on the rest of you, either (thanks to private insurance). I can't express how grateful I am to live in a country where I can be a lazy sack of shit and still support myself to a mighty comfortable standard.

weasel,your last line is beautiful. you really are lucky.that is what america stands for-options and opportunities.

America is a gift to the world. i am an indian.

democrats will ruin this world.

the world needs Bush and the Republicans.

Which is why I hate Air America so much.

Ignorant fools

Thanks to you my family is struggling and living paycheck to paycheck. This is not because we cannot manage our money it is because everything is going up: healthcare, energy, food, interest rates on many things.

I think my father wrote this in the Seventies when a DEMOCRATIC President and a DEMOCRATIC Congress presided over the worst economy and most profound weakening of American power and influence since the Great Depression.

PS: My father kept himself, his wife, and all three of us kids together and above water during that period on his job as a SHOE SALESMAN.
Alan, you're just a bitch.

I'd feel sorry for Alan except my Olympic-sized pool is closed for repairs, my maid took a job with Wal-Mart and left me without any clean tuxedos, I cracked my monocle trying to pour my own cereal and I accidentally sat on my best tophat. And now, to top it off sob I can't find my cane anywhere in my 4,500 sq. foot bungalow. So I'm just a little too busy right now to feel sorry for anybody. Sorry about that.

Just checking in on the crazy this morning. Ah, I see that some looney lefty is going on about how Republicans have servants and stuff. That's some good crack they're smoking.

Someone else apparently claimed the republicans are driving up healthcare costs, why when my grandma went to get her MRI back in 1923, it was free, because it didn't exist! Now, it costs money! That's like infinity times more, and its all Bush's fault.

When I was in Florida in 2004, helping a major political party deal with crazy people trying to stop Cubans from voting, one such member of the Alternative Reality Based Community told me that because Bush did not impose tariffs and other price controls on imports and outsourcing, prices were falling too quick. A 13" color TV he sold for $200 was barely going for $25 today. How can anyone make money with prices falling so fast!!!!!

Good job folks.

For the sane people here, I would not recommend writing long winded dissertations on why your favorite crazyass troll is wrong, keep it short and simple. Rush is right, just laugh at them.

Here is a long list of members of the Demagogic Party and their assessments of Saddam pre-2003. It's also unclear how a governor in Texas manipulated the opinions of the British, French, German and Israeli intelligence agencies, but Bush is a genius:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Joe Lieberman (D-CT), John McCain (Rino-AZ) and others, Dec. 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I b elieve that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002.

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002.

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002.

"[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his contin ued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

Look, its unfair to use John Forbes Kerry's quotes against him. He harldy ever attended Senate Intelligence Committee hearings. He must have borrowed someone else's notes when he made that speech.

And its completely misleading to use all those quotes from 1998-1999, everyone knows the democrats were lying, heck I think its on most of their websites:

Here, I found this from Pelosi's website archives:
"The stuff about Iraq in 1998? Just Fucking Lying"
followed by "sue me."

And worse, using the quotes from Democrats in 2002 is almost slanderous. They were just trying to sound tough, its not like anyone believed them then either.

Nice try, Raven. I doubt most nutballs visiting this site will believe anything a democrat says that older than 5 months old, because that was then, this is now.

I don't believe anything a Democrat says now!

How can anyone make money with prices falling so fast!!!!!

*tears of mirth*
Joeindc is on F'n fire.

How can anyone make money with prices falling so fast!!!!!

sure, we lose $5.25 on every TV set but we make it up in the volume!

They're all on fire, laura. Christ, I always considered myself a top-notch moonbat ripper, but take a look at freaking geoff. He's not just on fire, he's backed off and nuking them from orbit!

I always knew you guys were funnier--especially since I don't get any sleep anymore--but I'm feeling really outclassed here these days.

Alan? Hello? Alan??

*crickets chirping*

Alan's working right now.

Alan, unlike the others here who are picking on you, I prefer to keep things civil. There's no need to insult just because someone disagrees with you.

However, I disagree with your statement and I only have one question to ask you pertaining to your career:

Can you get me fried with that?

Hey, Spongeworthy, you missed out!
Scroll down to Worst.Stunt.Ever.
It's currently up to 343 posts, and your good buddy robert lewis just dropped another turd!
Some other raving lunatics jumped in to stink it up yesterday, and they've been having their asses handed to them...

Alan, you cannot stop China from taking the low end manufacturing jobs.

But we do make sure that 30% of Americans now pay no federal income tax. Is that enough help?

Yeah, look, that whole worst.stunt.ever string is really getting messy. I would recommend waders before heading over there. Its a real mess.

I think my rightwing cluebat is going full bore, but its just not enough. The mythiverse of the left has planted a full fledged level 2 Fitzmas Doom Scenario (FDS) on that string. Its like getting rid of Gozar. We've set blasters on reality, but Robert Lewis has his cosplay Robert Reich costume on and won't take his fingers out of his ears. We sighted Tubino in his Madeline Albright SotU cosplay outfit, and we were able to cast him out. Anyway, just warning you.

Took a brief stroll and it really is disturbing.

For one thing, there's a lot of emotion and rhetoric invested in something that will be proven wrong or right in very short order.

I'm going to chickenhawk that thread, but thanks. I let that Robert Lewis fellow get to me a little last time, to the point I sort of lost my sense of humor. Which is, as you know, a direct violation of the AoS Lifestyle Prime Directive.

I was so ashamed that one of my nuts kind of popped up into my gut a little.

For one thing, there's a lot of emotion and rhetoric invested in something that will be proven wrong or right in very short order.

I thought so initially, Lauraw. Hence my bet with tubino. Now I'm not so sure they're going to de-invest that easily. I thought when Fitzmas Friday came and went, that would be it. But some of them seem to be saying "wait until the investigation is over." And that's a few weeks more. And some of them seem to be saying, "because Libby lied, the rest of the matter couldn't be fully investigated. So further charges will come only after his trial is over." Which is likely to be a year from now, or more. And a few seem to think Fitzgerald could pop up at any time in the future with devastating charges against the whole Bush crime family.

So, I guess it's like global warming. Some day, it will be proven right or wrong, but none of us will live to see it.

To hell with that thread. I'm not waiting for minutes on end for all eleventy-hundred comments to load just so I can bash some moron who could get his logic-challenged ass handed to him by my 13 year old son.

It is very difficult to find reasonable, logical, liberals in the discussion threads. I've been very disappointed with AlanB, Robert Lewis, Bill, and Tubino. These guys just throw sources and assertions at you like monkeys flinging feces. When you point out that though they think they're throwing gold, they're just flinging shit, they laugh and fling some more.

I liked Sceptical, though, and upon occasion Seattle Slough can be kind of reasonable. More of these type would do a lot to elevate the level of debate.

But then reasonable debate is pretty dry and kind of inconsistent with the AoS Lifestyle. Maybe the site works better infested with feces-flinging liberals and AoS regulars trying to make them eat it.

hear hear. If we could get something other than the crap that some guys throw at us, I would be happy to discuss the situation in a reasonable voice. But every post by some of these guys is FDS where the Bush crime family gets it.

They're kind of like those wind-up toys that keep going, hit a wall, bounce off, and then run into another wall, bounce off...