Maybe if they improved the quality of their food, they wouldn't have to research idiotic crap like this.
And no I don't want fries with that!!!

I'm not sure why most orders can't be completed by just pushing buttons anyhow. A bunch of buttons and a computer screen to view your order and confirm-- no mistakes.

If they have a sensor-activated spray nozzle that douses me with an industrial grade anti-bacterial solution before and after using these buttons, then maybe.

It's crap like this that made me pretty much abandon McDonald's. They are BY FAR the *worst* fast food place in America, at least here in the big cities.

Gone are the days when teenage kids worked there-- it's nothing but (illegal?) immigrants working, with zero ability to speak English.

But even if they all spoke the Queen's English, it wouldn't matter, because the only language I care about in a FAST food restaurant is SPEED. And frankly, I haven't had a fast order in an urban McDonald's in well over a decade. I swear, they try to park me in the grill stall-- when I'm ordering inside the restaurant.

Rather than spend any money on some sort of mega-call center, how about raising salaries, or better yet, training standards for its employees? Hell, I worked fast food for two years, it wasn't fucking rocket science.

A little pride in your work, people.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

This is a pretty good idea, IMO. I'm sure I'm not the only one who HATES getting a sullen "wecumtomdonasmayuhtaykyaordah" from the half-trained ape on the other end of the mic. It's why I prefer Chik-fil-a for fast food--their employees are contractually obligated to be helpful and cheerful or it's into the vat of boiling grease.

What I'd also like is the ability to have a "My McDonalds/Wendy's/Whatever favorites" keychain fob, like the Speedpass at Exxon. Very often I order the same damn thing every time. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to repeat that every damn time I drive through? Just wave the dingus as a sensor (BEFORE I get to the order speaker), and have the screen verify my order and give me a price.

EVEN BETTER! Allow a one-time customization so you can send one guy out with an Orderpass to pick up a big order for an office, and not have to have him read shit off a Post-it. You just wave your dingus, pays your money, and get back with the food.

At my local McDonald's, in a smallish town in Florida, my order is displayed quite legibly on a screen. It works amazingly well.

I think McDonald's is emulating Walmart by pursuing a number of technology solutions. They will find out what works best and that's what we'll see.

As to the food, I drive for a half hour to a place that serves a superb hamburger for $4 and eat it on the deck whilst watching the manatees and pelicans.

I hear you, Dave. Although what's interesting to me is that there are four McDonald's within a ten minute drive of my office. (The new salads are pretty good, too.) But there is a vast difference, store-to-store, in the friendliness and quality of service.

So, how long before voice-recognition technology makes the position my friends who worked at MickeyD's in high school refer to affectionately as "Drive Thru Fag" obsolete?

(FWIW, the other McD positions were known as "Counter Fag" "Grill Fag" ... and so forth...)

I gotta be a contrarian here: I like Mickey-D's hamburgers and fries. As for the service...it varies widely. Maybe I'm just lucky, but my local golden arches does pretty well (although it is overstocked with people who cannot speak or understand English). Still: at least these folks are working. I find it hard to beef with folks who are just trying to make a living, and let's face it: McDonald's ain't the best job in the universe. Your whole motivation in that kind of work is simply not to fuck up bad enough to get fired -- that's not exactly conducive to prompt and courteous service. But if I see some young kid (or Mexican, or Somali, or Hmong, or whomever) doing the job and trying his best, I'm inclined to be pretty tolerant.

Now Hardee's: never. Never. Never! Ditto Carl's Jr., and Long John Silver's (seafood and fast-food do not go together, in my opinion). One of the nastiest food experiences I ever had was at a LJS franchise in Charlotte, NC. The Hardee's nightmare happened in Dover, DE. Needless to say, I've never gone back to either place.

Oh, and a couple of nearby McDonald's have a person standing by the Drive-Thru under an umbrella stand. You give your order to her and she inputs it into a computer. You then pay at the next window and pick up your order at the following window.

I don't dis MCD's either. I like me a quarter pounder, no cheese. And, the Willis thing aside, I like a filet-o (no cheese) xtra tartar. I also think they still got the best fries going in the business.

You just gotta make sure your order is a little special (xtra onions, etc) so they're forced to make you a fresh burger. That stuff's that's been sitting there 1/2 hour... okay, that's trouble. But, still, good food available.

Yup, we will ban McDonalds Corporation, a subsidary of Bushco and Amerikkka, Inc.

Burger King is still there for me. I can eat Enormous Omelet Sandwich all day and still protest Racist neo-neocon zionists too.

"I find it hard to beef with folks who are just trying to make a living, and let's face it: McDonald's ain't the best job in the universe. Your whole motivation in that kind of work is simply not to fuck up bad enough to get fired -- that's not exactly conducive to prompt and courteous service."

Wow, Monty. That's a great defense of capitalism ya got there. I didn't know it was my job to cut Mickey D's some slack because the jobs there suck.

My point is, compared to every other fast food place in the Washington area, Mickey D's is universally awful. Taco Bell and Burger King don't pay any better or hire from a different pool, yet I guarantee you the service is on average far superior than local McDonald's. And, in my experience, the same trend held true in Chicago, and Los Angeles.

It's not that I don't like McDonald's food-- gray meat, sure, but not much beats a fresh (remember those?) Big Mac-- but I keep hearing year after year about all these time-saving inventions they trot out, and yet the service just keeps getting worse and worse there. Perhaps I'm just too anecdotal here, and blowing a few bad experiences out of proportion, but honestly, McDonald's service sucks.

Then again, I also have a far longer rant in store for customer service in this country in general, which seems to have gone the way of the Dodo bird. Minimum wage didn't cut it in 1992, it doesn't cut it now, but I don't recall service being this lousy across the board back then. From McDonald's to CVS to Wal-Mart to the shopping mall to everywhere, it seems that the more America shifts to a "service economy," the less willing America is to put up with people's shit.

Gee, you'd think we'd be good at this stuff by now.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

"I'm not sure why most orders can't be completed by just pushing buttons anyhow. A bunch of buttons and a computer screen to view your order and confirm-- no mistakes."

Too easy to deface.

This is already in place in some parts of Georgia. One of the McD's near my home has this. And let me tell you, it is a blessing. I can actually communicate with the order taker there. That is much better than the one near my office where I asked for some Buffalo sauce for my chicken strips and the lady at the window stares at the condiment rack for a full MINUTE before someone else hears my THIRD request for Buffalo sauce and translates that shit to Mexican. What the fuck? Isn't there some kind of business rule that says you should hire help that can actually communicate effectively with your customers. Doesn't that shit affect your bottom line? I sure as hell am not going to go through that fucking ordeal everytime I need to get some chow on the run. I support this. Let me talk to someone I can understand, and put fucking pictures on a screen for the retards inside.

You just gotta make sure your order is a little special (xtra onions, etc) so they're forced to make you a fresh burger. That stuff's that's been sitting there 1/2 hour... okay, that's trouble. But, still, good food available.

Yeah, well, at my local McDonald's they are entirely incapable of making a McVeggie burger, no mayo, with mustard. Half the time I go in there I order one and I ALWAYS get it with mayo and no mustard. Always.

Maybe the fact that I ordered a McVeggie burger blows their little mind circuits so badly that they simply cannot process the bit about no mayo and with mustard. I don't know.

Oh yeah. I'm surprised no one's pointed out that once you've trunked up all the drive-through counters and shipped them to North Dakota, you're just one step away from reducing your costs by shipping them off to Elbonia. Not saying that's the goal here, just saying that, come a rough patch, it won't be a North Dakota accent coming through the speakers.

That is much better than the one near my office where I asked for some Buffalo sauce for my chicken strips and the lady at the window stares at the condiment rack for a full MINUTE before someone else hears my THIRD request for Buffalo sauce and translates that shit to Mexican.

Try asking for fry sauce some time. We moved to California from Utah, where you can't throw a brick without it landing in a puddle of fry sauce, and my wife got blank stares when she asked for fry sauce. She's been reduced to asking for little mayo packets so she can mix it with the ketchup.

North Dakota my ass, more like North Punjab.

They already started this program here in Washington state because wages and employee taxes are so high. Minimum wage goes to $7.63hr on January first, employee taxes are out of control and the legislature wants to force employers to pay full medical for all employees. Even with the high minimum wage, the employees here in King County are mostly foreigners, but I don't seem to have communication problems or service issues. If I did, that double quarter pounder/large fry dinner might become a thing of the past. American kids generally look at this type of job as beneath them. The problem isn't the pay, it's the attitude of today's workers.

You just wave your dingus, pays your money, and get back with the food.

I thought your parole officer told you not to do that any more.

compared to every other fast food place in the Washington area, Mickey D's is universally awful.

OK. Now, you have to tell me, what are the GOOD fast food places in the DC Area? We like Checkers a lot, and since it's minority-owned, it assuages my non-existent white guilt. I wish we had Jack-in-the-Box, though.

"American kids generally look at this type of job as beneath them. The problem isn't the pay, it's the attitude of today's workers."

Bingo.

I'm out in the Castaic part of LA County, so my nephew is able to get part-time work at the local McDonalds. But venture just a few minutes down the 5 Freeway to the more urban sectors and you easily find fast food places where the ability to speak and understand English doesn't become a qualification until management level.

That has to be a big factor. Where language matter more than technical knowledge the job isn't headed to India. It's going to the cheapest part of the US where most of the people have reasonably neutral accents.

The LA Times recently ran an article ablout the Balkanization of Southern California. It seems there are growing immigrant groups who don't see English as the second language of choice. Latinos are learning Korean and Koreans are taking up Spanish. If anything drives me to leave California, this will be one of the leading candidates. Within a few years I may no longer be able to get work in my field without a second language and I doubt my ability to acquire one at this late stage.

I'm currently working in a call center for broadband tech support for a company serving primarily California. Of the two biggest obstacles I face in doing the job impenetrable accents run neck and neck with willful ignorance on the part of the customers. All too often I have no idea if the customer is following my instructions because I cannot understand them. I can easily imagine a time when the requirements for my job will include a second language.

Someday, all fast food joints will be enormous fourty-foot cube-shaped food factories that are airlifted into place. Computer controlled kitchenmats will process all orders and eject them through a little slot. The only human presence besides customers will be the weekly delivery truck that loads raw materials in the service entrance.

Oh happy day!

When I was in high school, I did the McDs thing for a couple of years. Mostly worked Drive-Thru, since I was in the minority in that I could speak English. Almost all the management staff was from the same ethno-minority group and they really hated the white kids, but they knew that they needed us to translate for customers. That said, the little Drive-Thru booth on the late shift was a great place to get some reading done and/or fool around with co-workers.

There's something very unsavory about "waving your dingus" at the order screen. I don't think I'll be going to McD's anytime soon. Come to think of it that would be a great new diet book in the tradition of "The South Beach Diet" there's the "Dingus Waving Diet"! Quick market that idea.

American kids generally look at this type of job as beneath them. The problem isn't the pay, it's the attitude of today's workers.

Nonsense. As I mentioned above my nephew is part-timing at a McDonalds and he know plenty of others who are doing similar jobs in the area.

The problem in many cases is that groups get control of a business location. For instance, if you go to the Fry's Electronics (a huge warehouse size consumer electronics and computer gear chain) in Burbank, CA almost 3/4 of the employees are Armenians, many with poor English. This is because adjoining Glendale has one of the country's biggest Armenian immigrant communities. If there is a job opening the existing employees have a pool of candidates to bring forward. Nothing wrong with that in of itself but it can become very negative when the language requirements slip and you feel like you're shopping in a foreign country when you go to that store.

I've known more than a few people who were not so subtly warned away from expecting to be hired by certain businesses because they didn't fit in ethnically with the majority of low level employees. This would be wildly illegal if done by a business comprising mostly white employees but is done with impunity by places where a particular immigrant group has staked a claim.

This is happening at higher levels now. I have an engineer friend who has been told several times in the last year that he needed to learn some Chinese if he wants to stay in the field because so many companies are developing a majority of personnel for whom it is their native and preferred tongue.

rho - The company that makes the gas pumps for Exxon with the SpeedPass (Gilbarco; now owned by Marconi) has already test marketed this concept, but in Europe I believe.

North Dakota my ass, more like North Punjab.

Wow, Monty. That's a great defense of capitalism ya got there. I didn't know it was my job to cut Mickey D's some slack because the jobs there suck.

The defense is simply one of the folks who are busting hump in a lousy job day in and day out. Blame it on my Calvininst upbringing: if you put in an honest day's work, that goes a long way towards earning my respect. I don't care if you clean toilets for a living -- put some honest effort into it and take some pride in your work, and you got my respect. I don't care if you're Pakistani, Punjabi, Mexican, or Herzegovinian.

The inability of many immigrants (particularly Mexicans) to speak or understand English is a matter for grave concern, however. A core conecept of community is that of communication between citizens: how can a community even exist if people cannot understand each other? And it tends to breed in the immigrant community a sense of apartness and separateness from their host country.

Some years ago some firm polled several thousand hispanics in L.A., and found that most of them identified more closely with Mexico than they did with the U.S. They were just here for the jobs -- they didn't give much of a crap about the whole citizen thing. This kind of attitude is like acid to civic life.

If I had my way, there would be a federal law requiring a proficiency in English as a prerequisite to getting a job. English would be mandatory in schools, and a student would have to demonstrate proficiency in the language before being allowed to graduate.

Remember: if there is no common language, there is no common culture. And without a common culture, there is no polis.

...and it'd be great if I'd learn to close a blockquote...

They already started this program here in Washington state

Considering this story ran back in March, I'd say that's no surprise. (And it hasn't been scrapped yet, obviously)

Ultimately, though, what will be really cool is when, thanks to teleporting technology (or pneumatic tubes drilled straight through the earthy), they'll be able to outsource all of it--including the making of the burgers--to India.

Monty outsources his comment tag work to howler monkeys in Boreno. Sloppy? Perhaps, but you can't beat the price.

I'm not sure why Rajneesh Gupta in the McNewDelhi call center is supposed to be such a vast improvement over the disinterested, sullen, slurring kid manning the microphone right now.

Rajneesh can't help himself to free food.

He also can't file a lawsuit if he falls or strains his back (thus obviating the need for workers comp insurance for him).

I'm not sure why Rajneesh Gupta in the McNewDelhi call center is supposed to be such a vast improvement over the disinterested, sullen, slurring kid manning the microphone right now.

I'd think he might be a little conflicted about taking hamburger orders, too.

Rajneesh can't help himself to free food.

But Rajneesh keeps giving me such shit when I try to order a burger, keeps trying to steer me toward the filet o fish, or 'a nice McChicken sandwich.'

I keep having to yell "No Rajneesh, I want the cow. Gimme the damn cow, Rajneesh. The cow!"

It's such a pain.

Ah, once again, Ray too slow with the funny.

Tom -

One of the running bits in Harry Harrison's wonderfully silly "Stainless Steel Rat" science fiction novels is a franchise called McSwineys, which is highly automated.

They are purveyors of numerous sandwiches made from porkuswine (a rather large cross between pigs and 'pines) flesh and such side dishes as sugar-fried spamyams.

One of the later novels (can't remember which offhand) has two characters hiding-out in the back of a McSwineys for a long period of time and details how the operation works.

Highly recommended light reading (even if you don't particularly like SF).

Cheers,
Fatwa Arbuckle

The only human presence besides customers will be the weekly delivery truck that loads raw materials in the service entrance.

McSoylent King?

And, Fatwa, could you be a bit more specific; like a title for that book? I've read all the Stainless Steel Rat books I've managed to get my hands on and don't recall that bit. Must be one I haven't read.

Actually, the most hilarious fictional take on fast-food franchises has to be Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. Franchising has proceeded to such an extent that even jails are owned and operated by franchisees: in one scene, the heroine must pick which jail she wants to go to, and she picks "The Hoosegow" because they have good Chuckwagon Burgers. However, she ends up in a cut-rate joint called "The Clink".

And the hero (whose name is Hiro Protagonist, if you can believe that) drives a souped up pizza delivery vehicle called The Deliverator for a Mafia Pizza franchise.

That book is an absolute gas, and I recommend it highly. Seriously: if you've ever held a crappy low-wage food-service job (and what teenager hasn't?), this book speaks to you.

Ronald McHitler strikes again.

McDonalds Corporation, Inc. is evil.*

(* As per footnote in a Noam Chomsky book, meaning this is absolute truth)

Monty, you just used the word "polis."

That kicks ass.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Dave, service goes the way of society.
I still work behind a counter, and let me tell you, there is an ever-widening swath of American society which simply does not possess manners. Doesn't matter what side of the counter they're on. And their children are such a joy to be around, too.

And then there's the ones that actually ENJOY pissing on service personnel, like its their fucking duty in life.

My ex-fiance was like that. If a waitress made some simple little mistake and corrected it cheerfully, he would still act like a total sarcastic dick toward her and screw her on the tip.
(So glad I didn't marry that guy)

one word:

Bluetooth

lauraw:

I hear you. I was raised in a blue collar family people who "worked for a living", and that didn't mean sitting behind a desk. I have uncles who were trainmen, bricklayers, truck drivers, and electricians. My aunts waited tables, washed dishes, and did daycare. And even during those grim days during the mid-to-late 1970's, no one in our family went on welfare or would take a dime in government money.

I grew up with people who believed that work was not just the ticket to a better life; it was part of being an American citizen. It wasn't enough to just collect a paycheck -- one of the sayings I grew up with was, "If you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all." I come from a clan that is the "work ethic" made flesh and blood.

I don't treat people with those kinds of values badly. Waiting tables, taking money, cleaning the floors -- they're honorable jobs, all of them, and people who do those jobs deserve respect.

Monty is such a loyal prole.

people who do those jobs deserve respect.

Unless they work for me in my shop.
In which case I ride them mercilessly, like the Queen of the Fucking Harpies until they walk out the door, a shuddering wreck, in an act of self-preservation.
But otherwise, I totally agree with you.

lauraw,

as well you should. that is your livelihood they're messin with.

we have a number of restaurants here in our medium small town (growing number, happily). service is, alas, mediocre at best. the bar is set pretty low here. there was a time when I would try to offer the owner some advice on a particularly bad experience from someone on his staff - but I stopped. they invariably thought I was trying to get something, or just get the kid in trouble. explanations such as "I don't want anything from you, I had this quaint notion you might actually want your customer experience to be positive, so they would like, come back and shit" were received with looks like those of a dog, listening to a very high pitch.

Dave,

This is the downside of the "franchising" of America. Time was, the manager was actually the guy who owned the joint; your complaint was going into the ears of the guy who either succeeded or failed based on how many people came in the door. But with chain joints like Applebees/Bennigans/Olive Garden/oh-shit-pick-one-there-are-millions, who cares? The manager is some twentysomething kid riding herd on other twentysomething kids, and the regional manager is concerned with the numbers from all the stores. Your opinion matters approximately squat to the bean-counters at corporate HQ.

But the upside is that small towns can actually get sit-down restaurants, whereas in the old days it might have meant a twenty-mile drive to a bigger town.

I don't think franchising and chain-stores are evil...the old "Mac's cafe" type of place had problems too (usually nasty food and atrocious hygiene). It's just that "customer service" in those chain places usually takes on an aggregate meaning closer to "customer experience".

Monty, your point is absolutely valid, but I was referring to people I know have a vested ownership interest in the business.

I think in this case it really is a combination of low expectations from the customer base (no one's any better, no one's much worse) and limited competition. That picture is changing a bit, although in some cases it's franchises you mention, which bring your example to the mix.

Yeah the english thing is a problem at most of the fast food places around me too. Of course then there is the KFC where the staff just makes up round # prices and pockets the cash. The Burger King has gone with a new display screen that verifys your order which is nice. Wendy's has passed my local McD's in terms of food quality, but as they're drawing from the same pool, the workforce is pathetic. Some of the McD's were actually experimenting with Mobil's Speedpass, and they are now starting to take plastic.
I really miss Roy Rogers, they had the best fries.

This made me realize that I've never been in an In N Out that has English challenged or disgruntled employees. I know they pay better than most chains, and it shows in the service.

Plus, their burgers are soooo yummy.

Using the words "please" and "thank you" always increases the quality of service that you receive. That does not insure that you will always receive "excellent" service - it just means that whatever quality of service you would normally receive will be upgraded by being polite and respectful of those serving you.

I have turned what would have been some very unsatisfactory customer service experiences into tolerable experiences by using those words.

Professional order takers? By that, I presume they mean married men.

Press 1 or say 'English' to place your order in English.

Press 2 or say 'Spanish' to place your order in Spanish.

Press 3 or say 'F whitey' to place your order in Ebonics.

Second -- this plan will be scrapped because it's racist.

Trading LA order-takers for North Dakota ones "with strong communication skills"... what do you think they're saying there? Doesn't matter really if they mean to be racist or not; Oliver Willis will threaten to boycott McDonald's, and trust me, when Oliver Willis boycots McDonald's, they're going to notice that on their bottom line.

BWA...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Dave, that's the problem with an uncivil society.
There are so many people out there who are really being served badly and say nothing, but go elsewhere.
And then there are those who are served well and create a beef to see what they can get out of it.

If you are a business owner who is not involved with the day to day activity, you have no idea what is really going on, even when you see your business decline.

There was a local bistro chain near me that I knew would fail because all their staff were cold and unfriendly. I figured the fish was rotting from the head, but I wrote a letter anyway, because the food was fantastic and I hoped they'd salvage it.

The next few times I went there, there was an unrealistically perky person behind the counter whose job was to butter up the customers in a very insincere way. They got the letter, but not the message. The whole chain went under a few months later.

The nice thing about being an owner/operator is, I know what happened since I helped everybody personally. I have no pride. I swallow my objections lots of time in favor of the customer's point of view, even if it is sometimes unreasonable from my point of view.

As far as hiring goes:
The prevailing wisdom is to not hire friends or family, and for me the prevailing wisdom is WRONG.

My friends or family (who I hire at peak time) don't steal from me, they don't give a shitty attitude to the customers, and they don't leave me in the lurch at peak volume time.
I have never hired a stranger as an employee who didn't leave me when the going got rough (which is the season I hired and trained them for in the first place!) or who didn't steal from me, except for one guy who worked for me for a few months.

To restate:
Only one guy in six years didn't steal from me, treat my customers rudely, or leave me in the lurch.

THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS TOO FUCKING GODDAMNED LOW.

*minor elaboration/correction*
-When I say 'I have no pride,' I mean that removing an obstacle for the customer outweighs some extra work or expense on my part.
Because it pays off in the end.

Referrals through the roof, babe.

And its killing my competition. With an army of teenage clerks, they can't do what I can do all by my lonesome.

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I'm so sick of anti-Mongolian comments on this blog. Its always Mongolia this, Mongolia that.
HELLO MCFLY! There are other countries in the world!

the theft thing is like through the roof in retail... very bad

You know it would just take 1 step to improve order accuracy. Force the workers to repeat the orders back. You know of all the times the orders were repeated back to me to confirm I've had hardly any mistakes. The times where the guy on the other end was just..."that's 4.99 thanks pull around" trying to compete with that guy from the Micro-Machines commercials, I almost always have mistakes.