I like the "He's really a nice guy" line.

Don't be surprised if this eventually leads full circle back to Tim McVeigh. No, really.

Nothing about this says or implies that there is another person involved in this bombing.

Maybe he wanted to make sure that he killed himself by using a bigger bomb?

Not saying he was not a failed terrorist who died setting the bomb right before halftime crowd wandered out for more beer.

He was in treatment for depresson (see this OU paper link
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/03/43420103cdca9 )

and we know that males tend to use sure-fired methods to kill themselves. So maybe he used what he knew (bombs) and wanted to make a big one to make sure he was dead.

This&That

or maybe he wanted to bring something to the Texas-OU game this weekend. it's in the middle of Fair Park in Dallas... state fair going on.

Then why the ammonium nitrate? (That's for a truck bomb, not a homicide vest.) Why at the football game? All the trappings of jihadism?

You're hearing horses, not zebras. Or you're deliberately obfuscating.

My comment was intended for This&That, whom I'm reading to propose an alternative justification (depression instead of jihad), not Dave in Texas.

It gets a little suspicious when the assailant is described as lonely/depressed, roommate with a Pakistani, spent time at a mosque, and instead of shooting self puts on a suicide belt and goes to a large public event.

Especially as the libs are fond of telling us Americans perfer to do themselves in with guns.

Not trying to claim he was not a terrorist (after all he could have been arming a bomb to attack half-time stadium crowd & it went off early). Pointing out alternative explainations. These speculations follow:

Depression is known to lead to sucide. He was in treatment (at least according to the OU paper). Males tend to use sure methods for suicide attempts. Maybe he wanted a bigger bomb to make sure that he did not only maim himself instead of kill himself.

He was not at the football game. He was alone outside the stadium. Why did he pass up all those juciy target-filled places (packed, outside parties, Duck pond tailgaters, endless typical Sooner football madness) to get to his loner spot if he wanted to kill people? He would get lots of media attention if he hit any of those spots just as quickly.

Perhaps all the partying around him triggered enough energy by reminding him that he was a loner and not getting to join in with the fun (his roommate was at a party, it was Sat night during an OU football game, there are mobs of drunken happy people all around him, that could act as a cue to break him out of his funk just enough to go kill himself). So he used the bomb he had made already to go kill himself. He did not own a gun (as far as we know) and maybe really did not have the money for one (note he may not have known how to use it, where to buy one cheaply which is easy in OK land, or simply never thought about it due to obsession with explosives).

Perhaps he did not do it in his apartment 'casue he did not want to hurt anyone. If he walked in any direction for quite aways he would have been very close to people, yet he found an empty spot near the buses on the south oval.

Many (2/3) people living in his OU apartments are from outside the US, so having a Pakistani roommate is normal.

Again, not saying he is a clear suicide, just don't want him to be condemed to quickly.

I agree that the terror angle needs to be checked out & am displeased with the typical failure of the MSM to look into it.

This&That

How many past "ordinary suicides" have chosen to off themselves with a bomb?

Are we to believe this guy is a ground breaking innovator?

T&T -

How do we know that he wanted the bomb to go off in that remote location? Because amateur built bombs have an 'oops' factor to them that professionally crafted ones don't.

Short of a video of him striking a match, lighting a fuse, sitting down and watching the fuse burn down away from people it's just as likely that the casualty rate was a function of poor electrical design.

"Hmmm, all is prepared, I am ready ...
I'll just go over to this spot here and
check this bomb one last ....
ker-booom"

Many suicide bombers have had their bombs detonate prematurely, this is why it might have exploded outside the denslely populated area.

Also, quite a few suicide bombers change their minds (partially) at the end, blowing only themselves up instead of mass murdering dozens of innocents. Maybe in the end he could only bring himself to committ suicide, instead of committ suicide and mass murder as he had planned.

I am speculating wildly and do not know what he actually planned at all.

The fact that he had a pakistani roomate, attended the same mosque as moussoui (sp?) and asked for Amonium nitrate sure gives one pause!!

It is true that amonium nitrate wouldn't have anything to do with a backpack plan. But perhaps a different plan was considered. Perhaps there are others who were aquiring the chemical for a further major attacks yet to come. I hope they are checking out that mosque with a fine tooth comb and seeing if they are teaching hate like so many others do.

Click though Malkin's link to the "dude worried about MSM coverage" page. Read the comments. There's some fun sparring going on - denial, accusations of racism, what not.

The particular explosive used was an unstable one

The oops factor with unstable explosives usually involves careless handling.

ex. pipe bomb makers who blow themselves up usually do it screwing the end caps on. Leave a bit of explosive on the threads and you've made a nice primer when the cap is screwed down. BANG.

Not to change the subject, but is anyone else having gettint to drudge's site?

Having trouble, that is....

The fact that he had a pakistani roomate, attended the same mosque as moussoui (sp?) and asked for Amonium nitrate sure gives one pause!!

Once is a fluke
Twice is coincidence
Three times is enemy action

I agree with those that speculate that he COULD have been a failed terrorist (i.e., bomb went off early) as I stated at the top of my 1st post).

Not confirmed that he went to or even attended the local mosque. The one local report uses unnamed local sources. Wonderful. Why does this report have credibility yet we just finished blasting the MSM for its N.O coverage (or Iraqi).

Having a roommate from outside the US is not uncommon for those OU apartment where over 2/3 are not from the US.

As to the number of bombing suicides:

I have tried to find out if anyone else has committed suicide via a bomb before (the worthless MSM simply says it is rare--lazy b@stards). I used the CDC site to try and figure it out but they don't have a clear catagory for bombing deaths.

But I did find 4 deaths in 2001 that were classified as terrroism suicide (note that the 9-11 bombing are classified as homicide):

suicide defined as "intentionally self-inflicted injury that results in death"

homicide defined as "injuries inflicted by another person with intent to injure or kill, by any means. Excludes injuries due to legal intervention and operations of war. Justifiable homicide is not identified in WISQARS."

Link http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/fatal/help/definitions.htm#cause

So it is very rare but it does happen.

again, not saying he was not a failed terrorist. But he might have been a depressed man who used a very rare method of suicide too.

Just because something is rare does not mean it is a lie.

After all, people flew planes into the World Trade Towers.

This&That

I'd be really surprised if the Pakistani roomate and the folks at the mosque were involved in any way. A white boy coming in and talking about jihad would be pushed away, probably. Even if they thought he wasn't provacteur they probably wouldn't want any trouble.

Another jihadi wannabe in Washington state tried talking to his mosque and community about jihad, they told him to take a hike. He later attempted to contact al-qaeda through his computer and instead ran into a government snitch who immediately reported him to authorities. He was successfully convicted of treason.

Even if they thought he wasn't provacteur they probably wouldn't want any trouble.

I think it is a mistake to assume their though processes are similar to your thought processes.

"...everywhere you go.
From Oklahoma to Tel Aviv,
guys named Mustafa and Steve,
diversity strikes a blow.
It's beginning to look a lot like Jihad,
which the leftists all embrace
and the Jihadis fight to see
a crescent atop the Christmas tree
and the Jews erased."

T&T,

It's also possible that Karl Rove shot him with an magic RPG round from a nearby grassy knoll. Doesn't mean it's the most likely explanation.

Did you notice that section 5.1.1a said that the entire sample size came from September 11th? The four terror/suicide entries are likely the UAL 93 hijackers. I don't think this is the sort of suicide you're referencing. But even by the statistics you point to, 0.137% of all terror-related deaths in the sample are suicide instead of homicide. I would call that a very unlikely explanation. Let's apply Occam's razor here.

If there were any significant evidence, even circumstantial, that this was intentional suicide instead of premature detonation, then please present it.

Or given the statistics you cite above and the ammonium nitrate, do you not think that the prima facie explanation is the worthwhile first investigation, while of course keeping an eye open for alternatives?

Just pathetic straw grasping - repeat after me "terrorism is not a threat", "terrorism is not a threat", "terrorism is not a threat".

Michael Moore assures me of this.

Look at the size of the melon on that boy.
It looks like an orange on a toothpick!
It has it's own atmosphere!
"That kid's head's like Sputnik. Spherical but quite pointy in parts. Oh, that was a harsh one, wasn't it?."

He's off to cry himself to sleep on his gigantic pillow!

(It was "gigantic," right? not "huge" or "enormous?" oh the fear of slightly mangling a movie quote! i'd never be able to show my virtual face here again ...)

Might be Muslim, but that picture on Malkin's site makes him look more like a member of some militant Amish sect - like he should be planting bomb in buggies and blowing up barns and such.

Knemon,
I think it was "huge", only because I like the way it sounded:

"He'll be cryin' 'imself to sleep on 'is yuge pilla"

Still, awesome quote. :)

"Turn off the Bay City Rollers! The kids are here!!!"

Might be Muslim, but that picture on Malkin's site makes him look more like a member of some militant Amish sect - like he should be planting bomb in buggies and blowing up barns and such.

His beard looked a lot like the one Nick Berg wore in that video while his head was being sawed off. Look at them side by side, it's the same weird style. Just a coincidence, like them both visiting the same mosque.

/fighting urge to tell Amish drive-by joke

clop, clop, clop, BANG, clop, clop, clop