Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo

Dammit, hit post too quickly. That's the first line of Catullus XVI in the original, as quoted by Johnny Coldcuts, but my preferred translation is "I'll poke you and choke you", though the rhyme obscures the explicit obscenities in the Latin.

Dammit!

I took three years of Latin in High School and never got to see that.

Oh yeah, Catullus fucking *OWNS*.

Man, you can just get all sorts of things here at Ace Of Spades: genomes, Roman poetry, angry sandwiches, you name it.

It's like an intellectual Safeway, only with more fruits and vegetables.

Cheers,
Dave at Garfield Ridge

Another good insult-poet is Martial:

Caecilianus,
There wasn't a guy in this whole damn city
Who would have touched your old lady without a stud fee
When she was easily available.

But now, with all those chaperones you've hired,
There's a pack of cocksmen waiting to bang her.

You sure are clever.

Years ago in college one of my professors came up with a line from a Roman poet (Nicarchus was his name, I think) who said of one of his enemies, "You should have made a sign saying which was your mouth, and which was your asshole/Just now when you were gabbing I thought you'd farted." I think P.J. O'Rourke also used that quote in one of his books, as well.

And I also think I should have taken more ancient literature courses while I was in college, too; I'd be better equipped for Internet flamewars, at the least...

Damm, this is good stuff! I must suggest that you guys watch HBO's Rome. Great production values and, as opposed to that disaster on ABC, "Empire", has a historically accurate plot line (enhanced, of course). ROME shows the city and its Citizens as they probably were. Not everyone was a statue made of marble. Sex, violence, plotting, machinations, you name it.

Forget the fact that all the actors are British. It's a BBC production after all (they should stick to drama not news) and they all sound good. My major dislike is the fact that the actor playing Julius Caesar didn't have his head shaved a little. Has there ever being a previous portrayal of Caesar by an actor with a full head of hair?

That's the funniest shit I've read this millennium.

That Catullus had the riffs, baby.

So, praise the gods, Catullus is away!
And let me tend you this advice, my dear:
Take any lover that you will, or may,
Except a poet. All of them are queer.

It's just the same - a quarrel or a kiss
Is but a tune to play upon his pipe.
He's always hymning that or wailing this;
Myself, I much prefer the business type.

That thing he wrote, the time the sparrow died -
(Oh, most unpleasant - gloomy, tedious words!)
I called it sweet, and made believe I cried;
The stupid fool! I've always hated birds...

Dorothy Parker owns Catullus's ass.

You don't want to ignore Archilochos when you're reading the classical insult poets. On the subject of Galloway, Hitchens would like this one:

His attachment to the despicable
Is so affectionate and stubborn,
Argument can't reach him.

Or, if you like your insults short and sweet:

With ankles that fat
It must be a girl.

I believe Archilochos was also the first writer to use the term "butt-kisser" in great poetry.

Dorothy Parker doesn't understand Catullus was writing about the sparrow to get some from Lesbia in II, and in III at once rejoicing at the bird's death (the overblown emotion at the end) and resentful that for the nonce she's too upset to mack.

The first sixteen poems of Catullus may be the best in the history of poetry. VIII, XI and XIII are my favorites, but of course XVI has that great line, both as the intro and the coda.

Someone once talked of learning Greek to read Sophocles. I learned it to read Plato, but in the long run the better result was encountering Catullus in the concommitant required Latin courses.

"Someone once talked of learning Greek to read Sophocles"

That's one hell of a lot of effort to read f'n Sophocles. It was Plato I had to learn to read the Attican for as well. Latin was for Virgil, so at least I had some motivation there too... briefly skimmed Catullus, didn't like him, though Ovid was interesting.

They should have that debate at the MGM in Las Vegas, sell $1000.00 ringside seats, and bring in Michael Buffer to make the introductions.

Rumble, indeed.

Crap.

"I'll fuck you in the ass
And fuck you in the face,"

has always been my preferred translation, because it captures some of the martial, swaggering rhythm.

Archilochos is good, but Hipponax is where it's all at. Earliest use of the phrase "motherfucker" (except in Ionic Greek) - or maybe it's just *about* a guy who fucks his mom?

I tried out a few Aristophanic insults on a previous flame-thread, so yes, it's safe to say that I'd be down for further such japery.

Like the drone of flies on a three-day road-snake
Falls the empty buzzing of moroncomments
Cherry blossoms wither

... okay, so that veered off into haiku territory ... just gettin' warmed up

And Ace, just to reassure you, the ancient world's attitude on what was even then known as "Greek Love" (those greeks got around) was much like that of a prison gang: it's all about who's pitching. No shame in that, plenty of shame in catching - biggest shame of all in *liking* to catch.

Or ... so they tell me.

I took three years of Latin in High School and never got to see that.

- was your teacher an older woman, by any chance? a whole generation of latin teachers, probably two, have carefully shielded their wards from the astonishing amount of flarin' flarin' filth to be found in Classics.

Yes she was.
She was kind of cool though.

(One time in class was talking to the kid next to me, and Mrs Mellen said, "Laura, nobody cares."
The whole class laughed and I turned a couple different colors. Very effective teacher, that lady.)

If I've forgotten my Latin, its not her fault.

Fawning on dictators, posing and posturing for a state-controlled press in front of a coerced audience, managing to overlook the ...

I have to admit a character defect - I'm willing to fawn and overlook if someone were to say...place a duffle bag *stuffed* full of $100 bills in the trunk of my car tonight. No short counts mind you - the thing had better be ready to burst.

Does that make me a bad person?

Actually, I always preferred Tibullus. Nothing quite so catchy though.

Tibullus is like the soft-core version, with costumes and stories to transport you to a different place and time, agricultural cycles and quaint pastoral humping ... Martial and Catullus are rent-boy whackbooks. In verse.