As I've said before, I'm not keen on slippery slope arguments -- after all, if we begin accepting slippery-slope arguments, who knows what arguments we'll take seriously next? -- but the Death Express does seem to be gathering momentum.

Right Ace, two publicized cases! The momentum of the Culture of Death is unstoppable!

Pretty soon, they're just going to start plucking kids out of clasrooms and executing them for having buck teeth!

Reminds me of how when abuse surfaced in the military prisons in Iraq, the trend of abuse by US soldiers was "gathering momentum." Or when a series of school shootings were publicized over a two year period, even though violent teen deaths were at their lowest point in decades, school violence was "gathering momentum."

Ace - You'd really do better to wait for confirmation of stories that you yourself term, Unbelievable, you'll have less of a false sense of momentum down the slope if you exercise a little patience.

Hey Bill--

If true, this means that not even your express wishes to the contrary can keep a judge from ordering you dead.

That's a bit of a tripwire, isn't it?

We're definitely no longer about someone's right to die. We're talking about your relatives' right to kill.

Oh, I think that this case is f'ed up (if that's the case) alright, I'm just giving you shit for your slipperslopeytrendism. You sound like a producer at CNN.

Actually, if true the story would have to be believable, but as you note the story is not believable. The only sources for this story are World Net Daily and Thrownback, which seems to source WND. There is no source out of any actual Georgian news organization on this obviously, if true, hot topical news.

Like the smuggled Iraqi Uranium and the recent anthrax attacks you are simply to gullible in pursuit of your agenda. Also, adding the, if true, to the link, but leaving the title as an unmitigated declaritive hardly makes anything copacetic.

OK, the story's over on worldnet daily. The link is:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43688

I flat don't get this; if the story's accurate, this must be stopped. Now! If the story's not accurate, someone needs to be fired for making me sick all over again.

Dianna - Agree with you totally.

Ace: Take it easy on Bill. Your opinions wouild be a little frazzled too if you had to keep up with his manic 2 posts a day schedule. And some days, only one of thems an ad for the radio show.

Just sayin, cut the guy a little slack.

Your opinions wouild be a little frazzled too if you had to keep up with his manic 2 posts a day schedule. And some days, only one of thems an ad for the radio show.

Heh. Very true.

Ace, I appreciate you taking a look at this topic. I don't always agree with you, and you're often too flip for my tastes (hey, I just scan, then - like an adult ;) ), but you often chime in with the mot juste at exactly the right time.

Thanks. You definitely have my respect, unlike others in blogdom I could mention.

Glad you weren't retiring, and keep up the good work!

Best,
R'cat

Aw, Romeocat, don't be passive-aggressive! Just come out and say it!

I clicked on Guy's name, but it didn't take me to his blog. What gives?

This issue has been all over BlogsForTerri for the last three days. If it's a fake story, then a lot of knowledgeable people over there have been duped as well.

I'm beginning to think it's true, given all the info they have on the case. They are even connecting some dots between the Magouirk case to the Schaivo case through common board memberships of both hospices.

So why don't the doubters, you know, make some followup phone calls?

Or the non-doubters, for that matter. You know, like, 'citizen journalism'?

Can't speak for all CITIZEN JOURNALISTS, but in my case, it's because I hate life.

And because I have an XBox.

More appropos was the Texas case where they pulled the plug on a kid born with defective lungs under the terms of the Texas Futile Medical Care Bill that Dubya signed. Pulled the plug despite his no-money, indigent Mammie's wishes to keep him alive with intensive critical care at all costs....she didn't care how much money the taxpayer had to foot.

That's the problem with "Culture of Life". Who pays for it? I don't see the Right to Lifers running around offering money to anyone other than media darling Terri Schiavo's guardian to dissuade them from stopping futile medical care.

Medicare is already killing several States ability to keep taxes down and offer other services past keeping incognitives alive for years.

Now, the Republican Party and the Religious Right have a some hard decisions iif they go forward with "Life at all costs".

1. Raise taxes considerably to pay for it. You can't just borrow more trillions from France, Saudi Arabia, and China forever a la Bush...

2. Restore the ability to get million dollar bogus medical malpractice awards that helped keep Schiavo going in the mid-90's. End tort reform to enable more lawsuits helping "The Culture of Life".

3. Pass laws requiring medical research that extends life be banned - because that ends up in too many becoming "precious, innocent vegetatives, little babies once more by virtue of Alzheimers" and in a culture of Life, all resources must go there preferentially.....so death as Jesus intended, no stem cells, no new technology....just natural death, except a surgical hole, tube, and feeding machine is perfectly natural by Right to Life thinking. Unlike the OTHER tube and machine for artificial breathing.

4. Make the "preciousness of life" predicated on private ability to pay. Err on the side of life always, 'till the money runs out. Then pull the tubes and dump the body out on the curb. In Republican thinking - everyone that is born has the ability to be an "owner" in the ownership society, with plenty of money. The 95% that fail to be prosperous "owner kinda doer-folks" have no one to blame but themselves for lack of adequate medical care in a future America. And ensure that the VERY wealthy can hide their assets in trusts, force others to pay for them, so as to preserve wealth so their "Doer-Folk" heirs can "create exciting new jobs for the jobless".

Sorry Jeff: Gone dark for a bit while I put the finishing touches on my radio dealio. And we're gonna pop the 8 bucks for the audio upgrade. That's right, string-cans. So don't worry, you'll soon be able to read plenty of me in the arbitrons. Just remember to look up.

Yawn!

Hey Guy Dupree -

I took your comments lightly until that last one. But since we're proferring criticism, and you have no body of work to speak of, I'll point out that there's a song about you (yes, you!) on William Shatner's recent album with Ben Folds, it's called "Has-been." Here are the appropriate lyrics:

Never done jack
Glad to meet ya
Who's your friend?
Dick
Don't say dick
Whaddya know?
And you friend, what's your handle?
Don
Two thumbs Don

Riding on their armchairs
They dream of wealth and fame
Fear is their companion
Nintendo is their game
Never done jack and two thumbs Don
And sidekick don't say dick
We'll laugh at others failures
Though they have not done shit

I've heard of you
The ready-made connecting with the ever-ready
Yeah
The never was talking about still trying
I got it
Forever bitter gossiping about never say die
May I inquire what you've been doing mister?
Jack
Never done Jack
And you partner, what's the News of the World, Dick?
I don't say dick
Don, of all the people you must be the Tattler
Two thumbs up
What are you afraid of?
Failure?

Meant to be taken lightly. But now you go all Shatner on me. Still though, 2 posts? What're you doing over here? Man, bitch about Wonkette subcontracting out, but still, the drywall goes up.

BTW, you're big time media now. Gotta get a thicker skin. All I'm saying, baby

I look forward to your new show, Guy -- though I reckon those who know you would note that you with your lips wrapped around a can ain't really all that new.

Remember not to tongue the hole this time. That tends to muddy the audio.

Jeez Jeff, skin thing goes for you too. 'Lips wrapped around a can?' Straight to the homo jokes... wait, what does that even mean?

C'mon you two. Don't you have publicists/people to not make sense for you now? (another joke. i'm a kidder. also a listener. lighten up)

Ace,

There's a link of the front page of www.glenbeck.com to his interview with the woman's nephew. When you listen to the nephew's recounting of events, it sounds pretty plausible.
I've had email and phone messages out to the hospice attorney since last night, but she appears to be on vacation.

This crap happens much more than most people know.

Wait, don't females have cans, too?

PRESUMPTUOUS MISOGYNIST!

Still though, 2 posts? What're you doing over here? Man, bitch about Wonkette subcontracting out, but still, the drywall goes up.

Wonkette is getting paid six figures to write a book of twaddle (or rather, string together longer twaddle from her blog twaddle). I work the equivalent of 1.5 jobs (one of which is breaking my balls), (lately half)-run a blog and do a radio show every week. Also, I have nothing to say on my blog. Allah was right about repetition, and the muse has left the building (for now).

In contrast, fucking with Ace in his comments is fun and easy, especially when he's painting silly trends to fulfill a narrative about the "Death Express."

And who said my skin wasn't thick? You fuck with bull, bulls give you just a little horn, and suddenly you whine that the bull has thin skin? No, the bull has horns. Don't mistake vast reserves of stewing hostility for insecurity; not everything that Dr. Phil tells you is true.

Such is the natural cycle of natural nature, my friend.

Gotcha Bill, you're just one man. Wasn't even sure you we're workin a civilian job. Stretched thin. That said, cutting back the blog for extracurriculars seems a mistake. For my part, if I preferred radio to such, wouldn't be here to argue with you. Again, just saying, I read your blog and liked it. Sorry to see it go. But for a radio show? Locomotive ain't the transportation of the future, either. Gotta keep the Eyes on the prize, er somethin Dr. Phillish like that.

Gotcha Bill, you're just one man. Wasn't even sure you we're workin a civilian job. Stretched thin. That said, cutting back the blog for extracurriculars seems a mistake. For my part, if I preferred radio to such, wouldn't be here to argue with you. Again, just saying, I read your blog and liked it. Sorry to see it go. But for a radio show? Locomotive ain't the transportation of the future, either. Gotta keep the Eyes on the prize, er somethin like that Dr. Phil once said.

Ok, fine. Just soiled my pants with a double post. Complete blog tard. Still, this is the tech I prefer.

I think the answer is obvious now.
When you get old and decrepit and if you WANT to live, kill your kids.

They won't be able to yank your tubes then, and if you get a capital case out of it, you get actual court reviews, rather than just "of course the Judge was correct, he's a fellow judge!" and you can go to your own trial!

Besides, lethal injection or ol sparky both sound better than starvation and dehydration.

Sorry to see it go. But for a radio show? Locomotive ain't the transportation of the future, either.

The radio show is still fun. Laboriously cranking out original thoughts on a blog (15-20 hours of work a week?) is not a gas right now.

There are no strategic moves here. And I haven't killed the blog, just posting when feel like it, as opposed to a self-imposed schedule that cares about achieving something. Let me tell you, I had a heck of a year last year (Rathergate, Draft Scare, etc., 2 million visitors, various popular posts, etc), and what do I have to show for it? A couple of grand in profits.

So I'm not exactly doing any of this for the big score, though I'll admit that at one point, I dared dream.

Off of Rightwingnews, the local paper: http://www.lagrangenews.com is running with the story.

Looks true.

Bill, I will admit that I wasn't thinking only of you.

It's too bad if it offends or irritates people, but I was taught that responsibility comes with recognition. I see too much, well, bitchiness, for lack of a better word, in people I had a lot of respect for. I understand that my opinion is hardly meaningful to you, and that's fine.

I simply mourn the continuing loss of courtesy and decorum, and freely confess that I'm not guiltless, either. One can disagree with others in a forceful and persuasive manner without descending to gutter attitudes. Again, I'm guilty of it, too, although I try to avoid it, and freely apologize when I've been caught acting like the star poster over at DU.

And, yes, I'm probably too young to have these archaic attitudes, but I'm also old enough to value them.

Doesn't appear to be quite the attrocity cited by WND/Blogforterri/Ace. Only Ken Mullinax seems to be claiming that Mrs. Magouirk is being denied food and water, and that claim appears to be based on,
"... a hospice nurse told him that Magouirk had not received substantial nourishment since March 28."

OTOH, Ms Gaddy apparently testified that:
"Boyd said Gaddy testified at the hearing that she feeds her grandmother Jello, chips of ice and “anything else she’d be willing to eat. " This is quite different from witholding food and water. Further, there is nothing in the article that indicates Mrs. Magouirk is in need of a feeding tube.

Finally, please note that all parties in the court agreed, "That same day Gaddy received emergency guardianship in Troup County Probate Court.
At a follow-up hearing Monday, the parties reached a settlement that awarded guardianship to Gaddy provided three cardiologists – James Brennan and Thomas Gore, both of LaGrange, and Raed Aquel of Birmingham – evaluate the patient, who would receive whatever treatment two of the three recommended. " So Ms Gaddy has custody not through neferious means, but through both an agreement with all involved, and through having been "...taking care of her grandmother for 10 years..."

I know you want this to all be about an express train of activist judicial death, but its not. Sorry.

vonKreedon, do you have some links for your info?

Believe it or not, I do want to be fair, but I need to know where you're getting your information, please.

I am at this moment listening to the free audio on Glenn Beck, and I'm hearing about the three doctors.

However, how is it that this even happened when Mrs. Magouirk had a living will with clear intructions?

*That* is what those of us who are posting about it are so concerned about. There was an assumption of death that never should have happened.

Romeo - Thank you for your thoughtful response. The quotes are all from the LaGrange News article, http://www.lagrangenews.com , provided by Devore. This appears to be a local paper and is exactly the kind of source I was surprised to not find covering the story; that is until today's edition.

The LaGrange News piece does not give any clear indication, other than Mr. Mullinax's unsubstatiated assertions, that Mrs. Magouirk is being denied food and water. Nor does the piece indicate that there is a medical need for a feeding tube.

There is an assumption that there is a story here that can be used to show that there is an express train of death with an out of control judiciary on the throttle, but the story doesn't actually substantiate this assumption.

Bill, I agree that the "slippery slope" metaphor is too often misapplied, especially the blow-dried talking heads on television. But are you saying that no slopes anywhere are slippery? Or just that you think this particular slope isn't slippery?

vonKree

I read the same LaGrange article and I find it chilling.

The woman had a LIVING WILL that stated specifically that she be given food and water if she wasn't terminal or PVS.

And her granddaughter feels she's "too old" and needs "to go home to Jesus"?

There shouldn't have even been a "settlement" that involves 3 physicians because there is written documentation of her wishes.

Jaysus on a Pony, what kind of rock did the Schiavo case overturn that is revealing grubs previously unknown?

I realize much of our culture finds the elderly and the profoundly disabled distasteful, but is it this abhorance justification for stuff like this?

Where in the article does anyone other than Mr. Mullanix make anything like a claim that Mrs. Magouirk is being denied food and water? The only testimony cited would give the impression that she is being fed.

It may be that she is being denied food and water, I just haven't seen that yet from any first person source other than the nephew.

Someone remind me whom Bill had slabbed. His mother? Dad? Grandparent?

His hostility on this issue shows a shame of some sort. The need to assuage his guilt compels him to ignore his own blogging and post comments on other blogs.

Oh, I know Seedy posted something, but I didn't bother reading it since, after all, it was Seedy.

Someone remind me whom Bill had slabbed

Well, let me say such classy statements are really conducive to advancing an intelligent debate.

sheesh

There's a thread on this subject over at Wizbang. Oh, and BTW, Mr. Bill is properly spanked in an update.

I was unaware that this was supposed to be a classy or intelligent debate, Darleen. I thought it was just a bunch of bored morons on a weblog comment thread.

Besides, I was merely following Bill's example in regards to tone. But hey, if you want to pick on me instead of someone who opposes your point of view, whatever.

Since you're not touching this issue on your own blog, INDCent Bill, let me just take this opportunity to thank you here for clearly defining the twin pillars of libertarian philosophy: zoo sex and euthanasia. You got more worked up over the travails of Buster Bunny than over the fate of a real human being (check that: than over the fate of TWO real human beings). As to your mockery of the idea that this may be a trend, how many dehydrated corpses will it take: five? fifty? A thousand? Is the right to life just for the ambulatory?

Hmmmm.

"The LaGrange News piece does not give any clear indication, other than Mr. Mullinax's unsubstatiated assertions, that Mrs. Magouirk is being denied food and water. Nor does the piece indicate that there is a medical need for a feeding tube."

And I'll point out that the only person who has actually made a positive assertion that this woman is being fed, is her granddaughter. And even then there's an issue with the tense. Is this past tense or present tense? Beth Gaddy testified at a hearing that she fed her grandmother. But the hospice representative stated:

"Fulks said he could not comment on an individual patient, but the health system’s policy calls for nourishment and hydration for hospice patients, sometimes through a feeding tube because of throat cancer or some other condition that prevents the patient from swallowing. "

So. Where exactly does this person state that Mae is getting fed? And not just uttering an CYA statement?

Want to convince me? Show me where someone, anyone, explicitly states that Mae is getting fed *now*.

Sean -

But are you saying that no slopes anywhere are slippery? Or just that you think this particular slope isn't slippery?

Of course I'm not saying that there are no slippery slopes, I'm just pointing out that defining slippery slopes based on two data points is a bit, uh, hyperbolic. It very well could be that this is a frightening trend, and it very well could be that it's a couple of instances that have come to light and become exponentially magnified in a society of 300 million people because of the wonder of the internet and cable news.

My opinion is that those pushing a "trend" are pushing something that they can't possibly know to be true; it's the fulfillment of an agenda with scarce data. This is something that the cable news is particularly good at.

Shark attacks, anyone?

Since you're not touching this issue on your own blog, INDCent Bill, let me just take this opportunity to thank you here for clearly defining the twin pillars of libertarian philosophy: zoo sex and euthanasia. You got more worked up over the travails of Buster Bunny than over the fate of a real human being (check that: than over the fate of TWO real human beings). As to your mockery of the idea that this may be a trend, how many dehydrated corpses will it take: five? fifty? A thousand? Is the right to life just for the ambulatory?

I don't recall getting exactly "worked up" over Buster the Bunny, ratrher pointing out that it was a silly socially conservative issue.

And I specifically stated that the details of this case are "f'ed up," but what gets me perhaps more animated than people dying (after all, people die in horrible and unjust ways, in great numbers, every day), is other people misrepresenting those deaths to make broad statements that may or may not be accurate.

Iraq War anyone? JDAM bomb dropping into the kitchen of an innocent family? These are the individual data points presented as evidence by moonbats that America is an evil country.

In somewhat of a parallel, making the point that the American medical and legal systems have become a death cult based on these two cases is a bit hyperbolic, in the absence of more evidence.

And so is your statement that my "libertarian thought" hinges around some sort of enthusiastic approval of euthanasia, when I explicitly stated that I have a dim view of this case.

Someone remind me whom Bill had slabbed. His mother? Dad? Grandparent?

His hostility on this issue shows a shame of some sort. The need to assuage his guilt compels him to ignore his own blogging and post comments on other blogs.

"Slabbed?" Cute. I've never had to "slab" anyone; both of my grandfathers died rather suddenly, and all of my other immediate family members are quite well. So I haven't been forced to make any tough decisions on this issue.

Your willingness to ascribe phantom situations and guilty emotions to me is pretty entertaining, though.

DWC wrote:

Since you're not touching this issue on your own blog, INDCent Bill, let me just take this opportunity to thank you here for clearly defining the twin pillars of libertarian philosophy: zoo sex and euthanasia.

You forgot baby-killing, underage sex, and recreational pharmaceuticals. Five pillars. It's like Islam without all that nasty God stuff in the way.

And Bill, you seem very worked up over what you consider to be such a non-issue. Ask yourself why.

The two general categories of people I've seen reacting as you do are A) those who gave the thumbs-down on a close relative, and B) lawyers who can't rise above stage 4 on Kohlberg's moral scale (which is like the stratosphere for an attorney.)

Since I don't know much about you, I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not assume you were a lawyer. But if the scales and fangs fit...

That was me above. Loose shit.

C'mon back to the plantation, Bill, where lemonade and cornbread await you.

Once there, Sue will forgive you (as is her wont) and teach you the benefits of not killing babies. Or fucking them, either. While you're high on your evil marijuana cigarettes.

FEAR THE REEFER, BILL.

The "slippery slope" isn't a legal one - its the slope of MSM media burnout. Once the Terri "thing" was "over" and satisfactory from their POV, they're sure as hell not going to revisit that path with something like this.

These stories are "old news" now.

You could have hospitals and doctors snuffing alert healthy people in droves and it wouldn't get coverage anymore.

They only persist in stories when those stories support their political positions (i.e. we're still hearing about Abu Grahib on a daily basis)