All well and good, except for the matter of encouraging the Iranians, French, etc. with doubts as to our long-term seriousness.

Nothing wrong with any of it, Ace, except for the fact I now have the Village People's Go West playing in an endless loop in the disco of my mind. Damn you, sir!

But to the subject at hand. It depends on what you mean by "honest liberal advocacy." I presume you don't mean the classical liberal values of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, as a certain slave-owning polymath from Virginia once wrote. The Mouth From Montpelier's leftish nitwittery (see "Vermont, state of, also see Ben and Jerry") would be incomprehensible to a Democrat like Jack Kennedy.

Now, as a paid-in-full member of the VRWC, I rejoice in Move On's "we paid for this party" hissy fit. Nothing would please me more to see the whole "bushliedpeoplediedhomophobejesusfreakcharterschoolhalliburtonyeeearrrrghhh!" bunch of clowns marginalize themselves out of existence. I would prefer the GOPs gains to be made because of intellectual soundness, not a lesser of two evils perforce vote. The question is, will the Evil Countess of Chappaqua let the Deanie Babies undercut her chances at the White House? Her recent pronouncements on immigration and sudden discovery that she finds solace in prayer would suggest Dean's path has a few speed bumps in the way.

While Dean may have stumbled badly with his much hyped "scream" Ace, I would not agree that he's dumb. I think he's highly intelligent. And I think he stands a chance of reinvigorating the Democratic Party, unlike Hillary, regardless of his liberalism. He's a fighter and people of all stripes love a fighter.

That's funny. You support and like GWB - yet you feel that Howard Dean is 'dumb'. Heh. That's rich.

I suppose you think GWB is smarter than Dean?

MoveOn: All your (democratic) base are belong to us!

Sorry, just could not resist.

Where can I donate to this campaign?

Well, dipshit, I dunno if Dubya is smarter than Dean, but he's damn sure smarter than you.

They should put Dean in charge, officially endorse MmmMoore as their publicity agent, bring in lots of Hollywood activists, and explain how some degree of socialism would be really beneficial to the "masses".

I'm not really being flippant here, there is a segment of the left that truly believes this would be a good idea (I work with several of them). Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this would alienate about 70% of the country, but at least then maybe the rest of the democrats would come back to reality. There are good people on the center-left with good ideas... but you can't hear them over the shrillness of the MoveOn types.

MoveOn.org: "It rubs the lotion on its skin. It does this whenever it is told."

DNC: "Mister... my family will pay cash. Whatever ransom you're askin' for, they'll pay it."

MoveOn.org: "It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. Yes, it will, Precious, won't it? It will get the hose!"

I honestly don't know what it means to be a Liberal anymore they have been lying about it for so long. About all they seem to be very much for is talk and the endless "paralysis of analysis." But as we become the Party of Pork and Corruption (as we are fast on our way to becoming) I get a knawing sense that people are beginning to take notice. Even David Brooks admitted recently that, "it took the Republicans 10 years to become as arrogant as the Democrats, but they've finally suceeded." I do know what you mean that it may be a good thing to have opponents who hold us accountable. The problem is that they've been so mean spirited, so vicious and so full of shit for so long (and show no signs of stopping) that I don't even want to hear them anymore, even if they're right. I can't be the only one. Pity that one of these days they may be telling the truth and no one will listen. But it'll be squarely their fault, not ours.

"..we're going to continue to have a Democratic Party which simply refuses to take a clear stance as to what they actually believe."

This is a matter of necessity for them. As Ann Coulter said, "If the American people knew what Liberals really believed they'd boil them in oil."

Nice essay. Clear writing, interesting take, plain talk. You have a long way to go before jumping the shark!

Have to go with 72 Raisins. The Republicans have become the Party of pork and corruption. Add reckless spending and thinking deficits don't matter - in.

Let's see, we have this guy who was a high school dropout who lucked into being the 32K a year cop assigned to drive Rudy's car. Rudy liked this guy. He became an official Rudy confident, utterly loyal, and became Rudy's arm in the NYC prison system, then Rudy's man at the NYPD. Along the way he picked up a GED then a matchbook college degree. And after he became ONe of America's Greatest Heros of All Time - by virtue of having a police uniform on on 9/11 - getting past the McKinsey report lambasting managerial failures of the cops and firefighters - he and Rudy left to trade in on their Greatest Heroes of 9/11 name recognition.

This guy, named Bernard Kerick, was somehow given stock options worth around 10 million in 2002 for touting the electronic stun gun as perfect against evildoers. He's cashed 6 million in, and gets 500K a year on "inspirational speeches" to corporations eager to be in with one of "Rudy's main men" and gets projects Rudy assigns.

Reminds me of CT Gov Rowland having a grunt State Police driver and then, liking the cut of that HS drop-out's jib, promoting him to head of CT Security....of course getting a good deal or two at the Cop's used car business.

Bernard Kerik? Why he are belong Director of Homeland Security soon , and Rudy and Co will be getting some juicy payback for Kerik's meteoric rise, with many fat Homeland Security contracts.

With the money he has already cashed in plus what Rudy will put in escrow for him, Bernie will definitely be able to afford a real college degree soon.

First off, I'm a lifelong Vermonter who watched Howard Dean take over the Governor's office when the elected incumbent had a rather inconvenient heart attack. Second, I'm also a charter member of the VRWC.

That said, the popular image of Howard Dean as seen in the media is far from the Howard Dean we Vermonters know. Here in VT, the moonbat wing of the Democratic Party hated the man for his steadfast resistance to their dream of CanadaCare. He was an honest supporter of gun rights and slapped down members of the Dems who made any move to change our historically liberal (heh-heh) gun laws (or lack thereof). He was a fiscal moderate to conservative who fretted more over the state's bond rating than the payola dreams of the moonbats. Hell, the man even had a A- rating from the NRA.

Yes, he opposed the Iraq war. At the time, that made him an oddity and got him some press. The subsequent molding of his image as the second coming of Eugene McCarthy took me and many VTers by surprise. To me, his initial opposition gave the media their darling upon whom they could place all their hopes; the view of Dean the public saw was filtered through the anti-war dreams of the MSM.

Dean's one problem remains. He has a nasty temper. Many VT journalists ended up on the wrong side of a tongue-lashing after pushing too far. Dean also has a habit of opening his mouth before engaging his brain. To many here, that made him seem more real.

I would never vote for him, but I also know that if he ever does rise to another elected office, we'll know just what he's thinking. That's quite uncommon in this day and age and it allows me to respect the man while I disagree with his policies.

> I suppose you think GWB is smarter than Dean?

He only has to be smart enough to delegate authority to people smarter than Dean.

I agree with your theory, Ace, that full-bore leftism needs to be tried before it can be soundly rejected by historical experience. The problem is that full-bore leftism has been tried, numerous times, and lefties don't learn the lessons of historical experience.

Okay, perhaps Stanlinist Russia, Maoist China, certain parts of southeast Asia and Central America are a little too extreme. Fine. Let's get a more moderate example: California. When Grey Davis was elected governor, he had an overwhelmingly liberal legislature, and the libs heralded the coming of a new messianic golden age. And look where it got them.

Case closed.

Ceaderford raises some interesting points...but wtf is your comment doing in this subject. Write your own blog smarty pants. I might even stop by. Tone down the people who don't go to college are stupid. College ain't what it used to be. What do you expect...a degree from Yale?

I endorse this essay whole-heartedly, Ace.

Though I do wonder why you forgot to mention my candidacy and that of my good friend Michael Dukakis.

We proved very much that America is a progressive country. Too bad we weren't able to push for same-sex marriage. We would have won in a landslide.

Back in '93 the Democrats tried the being true to their liberal ideals thing. Remember Hillarys' attempt at nationalizing the health care system. How about her decision to hold closed meetings for her health care task force, even though by law they were supposed to be open to the public. From what I recall, Hillarys' health care fiasco had a lot to do with the Republican's '94 butt kicking of the Democrats.

slickdnyc -

Outside certain big city political patronage machines, and looking at National positions dealing with the welfare and safety of the public - yeah - we kind of expect our military officers, public administrators, top elected officials, and cabinet officials to have a degree in something.

Even Jim McGreavy's Israeli love slave and appointed New Jersey Homeland Security Director had a college degree.

And I heard Kerik is withdrawing his nomination. Phew! The Republicans sure dodged a real bullet!

I know Bush felt he owed Giuliani, but if a relatively unqualified lackey of Giuliani, who 10 years ago was just Rudy's police-assigned car driver, was placed in budget control of the 185 billion in the Dep't of Homeland Security, and Rudy plans to stay in private consultation making money off corporate and government Homeland Security retainers and contracts, then the allusion of 72 Raisins to the Republicans giving the appearance of the Party of Pork and Corruption should become clear to you.

There is something sadistically humorous about encouraging the Deaniacs to launch a hard left appeal to the American voter, and to take over the management of the Democratic Party. It's the sort of fleeting humor one might get out of watching an elephant ride a donkey.

There is, of course, the distinct possibility that the it could do some real damage, by cultivated a garden of radicalism that flowers into outright terrorist evil after the inevitable flattening. Raise their expectations. Give them an enclave and some funding. Watch the bitterness and disillusionment grow. Some will get a clue. Many will cause mischief.

Call me old fashioned, but I feel it's always dangerous to get too cute... and this plan sounds too cute by half. But having said that, you're probably right. They're not going to drop it until they really get hammered.

Hillary may have to run as a Republican.

No, no. I'm sure that if the Dems adopt a true leftist orientation, the American people will respond to their honesty by voting for them in landslide after landslide.
If the Progressive agenda is explained to them candidly, they will understand it, appreciate it, and therefore choose it freely.

(rolling on floor laughing)

Hey, according to Michael Moore, the Dems should just run somebody like Paul Newman or Robert Redford.

And he's right.

Anything to stop Redford from being involved in horrid movies like "The Horse Whisperer" in the future.
-=Mike

It really doesn't matter what Dean thinks, because Hillary has a mortal lock on the 2008 nomination.

Hillary has already made it clear she will try to be a JFK-style Democrat: campaigning as hawkish on defense and the use of the military for the promotion of democracy, but still liberal on domestic issues.

People forget, though, that while JFK made a lot of impassioned speeches, he did not in fact live up to his promises. He could easily have liberated Cuba, but chickened out on air support, turning the Bay of Pigs into a bloodbath and a debacle. His enagagement with Vietnam was tepid at best; it wasn't until Nixon was elected that America would finally take the common-sense action of carpet-bombing N Vietnam so the N Viet leadership would consider coming to the peace table.

Hillary would probably be no different. A lot of speeches, a few cruise missiles lobbed here and there, but nothing that might actually upset someone.

I actually see it much the same as you do, Ace. Until I got to that "we bought it, we own it" line I was thinking they were making a pretty good case.

Except that as an independent group they've just finally torn off the mask: they were always Democrats, hard-left Democrats, and nothing else. Their pretensions to independence and non-partisanship were always flat-out lies, and now at least they're honest in that regard.

Although their tax-exempt status should now be called into question openly. If the memo is legit, anyway.

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