No man, there are nine teams in the CFL. Excuse me, but what the fuck is up with that? An odd number of teams?

But you're a little off in your counting of the frequency of "Rough-Riders". The names of the nine CFL teams are (and I'm sure you realize this is from memory ha ha ha ha):

BC Lions
Edmonton Eskimos
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
Calgary Stampeders
Saskatchewan Roughriders
Hamilton Tiger-Cats
Ottowa Renegades
Toronto Argonauts

And my personal favorite! the Montreal Alouettes

Excuse me for a second. How do you stop from giggling when you're told that the Alouettes are next up on the schedule?

Anyway, I think the teams take turns being the Rough Riders. They're all closet Teddy Roosevelt fans, don't ya know. Or maybe there's some gay porn movie tie-in. Or both.

By the way, Ace. This comment app rocks. It would be nice if the left margin was more than an angstrom wide, though. Plus there's tons of real estate between here and those lucrative blogvertisements over there. I feel like I'm typing up a chimney here.

What? An ultra-PC country like Canada lets a team have a nickname like the "Eskimos"?

How about an expansion team: the "French-Lites"?

A while back the Toronto Globe and Mail had a contest asking readers to complete the phrase, "As Canadian as..." [a mug of hot maple syrup, or whatever]. The winning entry was, "As Canadian as possible, under the circumstances." No question, they're the Texans of the north.

Actually, the NY Islanders won the Stanley Cup in 1982, the third of four consecutive championships from Long Island's only pro sports franchise. Just thought that I'd point that out since, like, they are my favorite team and stuff...even if the NHL no longer exists. :-(

Another tip: Quote lines from the TV series "Due South" like it was "The Simpsons" or something. For bonus points, call it "Direccion: Sud."

You could have also included "cook food that is absolutely devoid of flavor". I mean, come on, how can you fuck up a pizza?

Haha, icebacks. I always liked that one.

"Canada, the other North America"

Oh yeah, you forgot "curling". Apparently it's big up there. Hehe.

Don't forget to pack your Canadian flag in your inside pocket, only to be taken out at concerts and then waved. Put your hand over your heart each time you hear "summer of 69" played and lastly but most importantly ... Tim Hortons - not Starbucks.

Canada: The Other White America...

Pfft. Canadians. How the hell do you insult a lifeform that low? I mean, hell, Canadians look up to intestinal parasites.

"Canadians, they're whiter than we are"

Now, now, be nice to the Canadians. After all, they do take in our deserters.

PS. Canada, you can keep them.

How about:

"Canada, the country no one bombed."

or

"Come to Canada, the literate country that hasn't fallen victim to crack cocaine, skyrocketing twin deficits, and the Mexican Invasion."

or

"Canada, I forgot fresh air smelled like this."

or

"Canada, cares less about the US than the US thinks."

or

"Canada, one WTO victory after another over the US."

or

"Canada, gotta love the fresh water the US continues to run out of."

or

"Canada, land of plentiful flu shots."

or

"Canada, the only country to burn down the White House."

hahaha, this is fun.

The Ottawa Rough Riders folded in '96; the Renegades replaced them in '02.

I think we had a Canadian commenting in here a minute ago, but I just can't seem to recall.

Oh well, re-read Ace's rule #10.

"Canada, cares less about the US than the US thinks."

Oh, please. You show your indifference but the endless number of websites featuring American-bashing jokes says a different story. You care less about us? Do you care less about what we BUY from you? Hey, how 'bout we give you back Alaska, and you could have handled Russians all these year. As for the holier-than-thou-attitude (fresh air) ... here in Michigan, we get Toronto's shit trucked to our landfills. You're not too pristine to create crap, you just throw it somewhere else. I've always loved Canada (lived every summer there since childhood) ... but their attitude is really starting to piss me off.

Toronto is clearly the aberration in Canada, the equivalent of, say, Detroit (maybe some of your bad air came from there?). And don't blame Canada just because someone in YOUR state DECIDED it was ok to have their shit delivered to your doorstep. It takes two to tango.

Also, Canada never had Alaska, smart guy. That was Russia. So, there could be no "giving it back." Not to mention that the US couldn't have handled the Russians without cooperation from Canada - namely by relying on Canadian radar installations in the far north to keep tabs on the Russkies, CF-18 fighter jets to conduct patrols, etc.

And what attitude is that? Showing the backbone Americans claim Canadians don't have. Waaahhh.

Second W on the rockingness of the comment app, but one whine: it'd be nice to be able to resize the window to see more text onscreen.

I spit on any sniveling chickenshit US citizen (I guess at least technically they're citizens, if not in their hearts & balls) who'd try to pass for Canadian when traveling overseas, whether out of irrational fear or misplaced shame. I've been to Thailand, Italy, and the Czech Republic in the past year, had a US flag tag on my luggage and occasionally carried a shoulder bag with a stars and stripes design, and I got nothing but smiles everywhere I went, even from the occasional person who asked me about Bush, expecting me to rag on him, and was surprised when I ragged on Kerry instead.

C'mon Ace, at least give Lightfoot props for "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald". (And maybe even for "Sundown" and "Early Mornin' Rain").

If you want to bash a Canadian musician, there are plenty other more insufferable ones to pick: Neil Young for example.

(SP waits to see how long it takes to get a Neil Young fight going.....)

Above Neil Young post is mine....

What would Brian Boytano do?

The Canucklehead refers to himself as Shamu. I bet that's accurate too.

Canadians are just Mexicans with sweaters

Maple syrup, it's like astroglide for your waffles, eh?

Canada, where shit is cold, and we're not that funny.

Canada, because shari'a law rocks!

"Canada, the country no one bombed."

Good one. This reminds me Ali G:

"Do you agree that the most amazing thing about nuking Canada would be the element of surprise?"

Well, Canadians could put a hurting on America by convincing all the celebrities they gave us to return. Alex Trebeck - what would Jeopardy be like w/o Alex? Pam Anderson, Shania Twain, Shannon Tweed, Jennifer Tilly and 200 other hotties you never knew were Canadian. The Great One.

The good news is that most would refuse to return.

Now the bad news. The Canadians were the only people to really kick American ass before the Americans encountered the Wehrmacht in N. Africa. America put 26, 000 militia against 5,000 British troops and Canadian irregulars in the War of 1812 - intending on invading and conquering Canada. The result was Canada burning Buffalo, NY, a string of American forts, Americans in headlong retreat, and Congress worried the Canadian border would end up somewhere south of Ohio and Albany.

The other bad news. Canada's Armed Forces have been disgracefully diminished by the weenie side of Canada and the damn Froggies, but when you have the balls to name a light infantry after Princess Priscella - be assured you would not want to mess with them anymore than you would tell a Guhrka that his knife looks faggy and his beret stupid.

And finally, Canada does have fresher air, is energy independent, has reasonable drug prices, a trade surplus with the US, better beer on average, less parasitic minorities, tons of sports activities, a higher number of olympic medals per capita than the US, cheaper but excellent universities.

On the down side, they have their boring side and the French Canadians. But who cares if Pam Anderson is a boring conversationalist??

To impersonate a Canadian, I assume that you'd have to act really depressed about the NHL strike. They're still on strike, aren't they? (Kings Schmings. Ducks ... . Welcome to Southern California hockey after Gretzky left.)

Hey, maple syrup also comes from Vermont, which is the bastard child of a union between Quebec and Massachusetts (that Quebec is such a tease, it's the French influence). So some maple syrup is only half Canadian.

Nice country, Canada. Why do the residents insist on turning it into something socialist and Euro? Yep, you could have been something Canada, but you're throwing it all away.

How is Canada "throwing it all away?" Canada has universal health care, subsidized universities, riches in natural resources (which, as mentioned before, makes Canada energy-independent), goodwill everywhere, a highly trained (though embarassingly depleted) military, etc....and STILL is able to produce budget surpluses. Right-wingers like to bemoan "socialism" because all it is is spend spend spend...yet how do you argue with the fact that Canada is still fiscally responsible?

Very funny stuff Ace. However, Canadians have a great sense of humour. Jim Carrey, Mike Myers, SCTV, John Candy, ect. And as for music, we gave the world RUSH, Nickleback, (Corey Hart..hehe). Most of us love Americans, but not unlike the U.S, our major newspapers and T.V stations are socialist run, so when an anti-american piece gets some play, that's the source from where it's coming from. BTW, keep your draft dodgers and Mike Moores, and all the other scum America has produced, we don't need them.

Mitch,

I keed, I keed.

Hey, no kidding, I still think Bryan Adams' Somebody is one of the best damn songs of the eighties.

Shamu, try having a military budget that doesn't require borrowing uniforms from allies.

Are people really still "arguing" over this? Let's be honest here folks, the whole concept of Canada as our equal is pure comedic genius.

Let's just give it up for Ace and call it a day, eh?

All I want to say to Canada is "for Christ sakes, pick a language already".

I find it funny, that when people want to prove how much "tougher" Canadians are than Americans ... they go back to 1812.

As for the countless lists I always come across -as to what Canadians have done or do better than us or whatever - my comment, is that if we were start listing all the accomplishments of Americans, Ace would have no room left here to blog.

no wonder all you freeptards clame you are milk drinking holesome americans. you are trying, again, to kill all the minorities!

The only "holesome" one around here is you, Dum Yeah. Guess which hole.

Yes, yes, kill all the minorities, you've figured us out. See, we trick 'em all to moving here, and starting businesses ... and then we kill 'em. The jig is up.

Um, read what Um Yeah linked to and stop being as humorless as Shamu. :-)

Honestly, Squatch, I can never tell with people that post anon (with made up email names.) I did cheick out the article before, but it it was too boring to read.

Carin, I never claimed it was a show of toughness. It's just a nice stat to throw out there :). Also, as for who's tougher, well, if Americans are correct and Canadians live in a year-round sub-zero tundra (without complaining about it), then it's pretty clear who's tougher ;). Unless you want to brag about palm trees or something.

As for Americans accomplishing more than Canadians, probably true. Of course, Canada isn't exactly suffering about it, either. With all those accomplishments, America is still considered one of the most hated countries in the world. The biggest issue concerning Americans is security, so all those accomplishments aren't exactly buying them peace of mind or anything.

And who says I don't have a sense of humor? Here's a joke to prove I do!

Q: How can an American be certain that the car he's just bought is actually new?

A: When it's recalled by the factory.

Feel free to tell that one while waiting in the welfare line!

Canadian unemployment figure- 7.6

American unemployment - 5.4
(to lazy to link, but I will if you want)

And, I wasn't brining up a Canadian v American accomplishments to compare. I was trying to note - that it has been on several occasions where I've heard these lists from Canadians of all they have done. Enough already, get over yourselves.

Finally, as for the American security issue, I would respond, but Victor David Hanson does it so much better than I could ever hope to do : http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200412100841.asp.

Here's a better one for you, Shamu.

Q: How do you tell when a Canadian doesn't like the policies of your country?

A: Who cares?

Feel free to tell that one when you're waiting eight months for breast cancer treatment, unless of course you work in government or are rich, then you can wait four months.

Or, a third option, if live close to the American border ... then you can just come over here and get your treatment right away.

Hey Shamu you sold out communist fat fuck,

As I recall from living in many places across Canada there are many Canadians....and foreigners...standing in the Canadian welfare lines on Welfare Wednesday (a well known even in places like Vancouver, BC). You gotta love how all of the junkies go and shoot up after they pick up their welfare checks then stagger down Hastings street in Vancouver.

Regarding security, my guess is that you haven't yet read the CISIS report about the terrorist activity going on in Canada. They admitted that places like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver were terrorist hotbeds...home to wonderful peaceful organizations such as Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah. They even admit that Canada is not immune from terrorism. You have a snake pit growing amongst you and don't even realize it yet. I would pay attention to what is happening right now in the Netherlands. Have fun dealing with it. Then again, we'll probably end up saving your sorry asses.

And yes Canada has such wonderful social programs such as Universal Healthcare. Such a great idea...and yes poor Canadians are insured, but too bad it takes 6 months to get in to see a doctor. Oh and then you have the 6-10 hour emergency room waits, the doctors strikes, and people dieing while waiting to receive treatment. Oh ya and of course they large numbers of Canadians seeking treatment in the US because they can't get treatment in Canada b/c of the long waiting lists. How about the incident in Toronto a few years back where they had to turn away patients b/c they lacked hospital beds? But then again...you may not have been told all of this by your government run Media. Oh and about the misconception that Canadian health care in free and subsidized...this is nothing but Bullshit. I know for a fact that it is paid for by massively high taxes and mandatory premium deductions from pay checks. You need to get your ass out of the Canadian propaganda bullshit and see it all for what it truly is.

And by they way, I spent 20 years living in Canada. My father still lives there and happens to be a prominent Pathologist in Cancer Research...and I could tell you some stories about how pathetic the Canadian healthcare system truly is.

And as far as freedom and civil liberties goes, Canada is a joke. Talk about surpression of speech and rights. If you want I could provide many examples for you.

I could go on and on about how lame and screwed up Canada truly is. America has it's problems, but you'd have to kill me and pull my gun out of my cold dead hands before you could ever get me to live there again.

As I read this, my Canadian goddaughter is serving in Afganistan. My U.S. brother - in - law is in Iraq. This should be a light hearted read. Canada - white??? Canada prides itself on being a mosiac people of each ethnic background celebrating their cultural differences, US prides itself in being a melting pot. Both are wonderful ideals. Canada has nothing to prove to the States and visa versa. In fact, I could go so far as to say that most Canadians are very thankful and fond of our southern neighbours and I think the States would rather have Canada as a neighbour rather than many other countries. Mexicans with sweaters???? Check out the desert in British Columbia.

Don't forget Canada's best tourist slogan:

Canada: Your dollars spend better there.

Gotta love that exchange rate!
Nemo

jomac - you know, I love Canada. I live on the border, and my family has had a cottage in Canada for over 50 yrs (where I spend every summer of my life - I was even married in Canada.) My childhood friends were Canadian. My "issue" isn't with Canada in general. It is with the anti-America attitude. At times, it seems that the only way a Canada can speak positive about their own country, by putting down ours.

Invictus,

So many problems with your meandering rant, but I'll do my best.

First, Shamu was a name I just picked out of the air, mostly because of the irony in that me being a fit individual could be considered a whale. But hey, if you get your jollies that way, good for you.

Second, how have I sold out? And, more importantly, how am I a communist? Are you trying to imply that Canada is communist? Because it's funny you try to correlate a social system whereby, technically, everyone is supposed to be considered equal and that no one does without, yet in the next breath comment about Canada's welfare lines (which, under a communist government, would not exist). Maybe you should learn what you're talking about before you look like the inbred you are.

By the way, it's CSIS, not CISIS. Maybe syphillis is affecting your eyesight, assuming you could get it up long enough to actually have sex with a human being. Apparently, syphillis also makes an individual go crazy, so you can see why I might be in the ballpark with this assumption as to your health. And yes, of course Canada isn't immune to terrorism. Neither was the US three years ago, especially since all 9/11 hijackers came through the US immigration system. Not to mention that since then, Canada and the US have signed over 2,500 agreements to enhance border security. Not to mention that I would guess that most Islamic organizations probably have more of a vendetta against the US than Canada. Oh, and please tell me how the US is going to save Canada's "sorry asses." I mean, is some terrorist army going to invade Canada? If a terrorist strike were to actually hit Canada, how the fuck would the US save our "sorry asses" (especially considering the act would have already occurred). Do you even have a fucking clue about what you're talking about? Dumbass.

And, since we touched on talking health care, let's get more to the topic. Sure, there are delays that you don't get in the States, when only people who can afford to go to the doctor are able to do so. But, you're exaggerating. Big time. I have not once encountered a single person who has had difficulty in seeing a docter when they needed to. SURGERIES can require a wait, but EMERGENCY surgeries get done quickly. There is no waiting for an emergency. . 6-10 hour wait lines in the emergency room? Sorry, wrong again. You go in to the emergency room, they treat you very quickly. Of course, you know this all very well because you live in another country. And good for you father for being in the health care industry. I have a good friend who's a pediatrician in a hospital and he says that the "problems" of the health care system are way overblown to what people actually hear they are. Sure, sometimes people die because they have to wait longer for treatment. I'm sure people die in the US because they can't AFFORD treatment. Does that mean that the US's health care system is somehow better?

And you cite ONE example of overcrowding in Toronto of all places (the biggest city in Canada) as a litmus test of Canada's health care. Good job. Forget all the positives, but use one example to make a point. I'm sure any essay you've ever written had such scintillating conclusions, since you could include one source and close the books forever on the subject. Dumbass.

And yes, we all know that we effectively pay for our health care. Thanks, Captain Obvious. Sure, taxes pay for it, but I'll tell you something. You ask any Canadian (excluding the richest 2%) and ask them if they would prefer to keep the current tax system in place or pay for their own health care costs, and they would overwhelming say to keep taxes as is to keep health care free. Again, your ignorance of Canada shines through.

Oh, please give us these many examples you no doubt have stored in that ironclad filing cabinet of a head you have as to our "suppression of speech."

By the way, all of Canada is crying that you don't like the country. Really, we are.

Such a cute response.

Communist…ok…maybe that was a little too extreme, but there are parallels with communism and Canadian Policy. Hey you you’ve got that wonderful hate-crimes legislation (I will go into this in more detail for you), and Quebec language police. Here is a great essay that goes into some great detail about Canadian policy http://thoughtcrimesca.typepad.com/tcca/2004/07/canadian_foreig_3.html

What about this: “A British Columbia court upheld the one-month suspension, without pay, of a high school teacher who wrote letters to a local paper arguing that homosexuality is not a fixed orientation but a condition that can and should be treated. “ – Vancouver Sun

In this case, the teacher Chris Kempling, was not accused of discrimination, merely of expressing thoughts that the state defines as improper.”

Canadian suppression free speech can be clearly seen in the policies of the CRTC which routinely censors certain points of view, especially those religious in nature.
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/NEWS/RELEASES/1995/r950404b.htm
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/NEWS/RELEASES/1995/r951124.htm

Here are some more examples for you:

1. Anyone who criticizes homosexuality -even a preacher from the pulpit-could be charged In Saskatchewan this summer, an evangelical Christian, Hugh Owens, and the Star Phoenix newspaper ran afoul of this law. They were fined $4,500 each because of Owen's 1997 ad, which did not quote, but merely listed five Bible references critical of homosexuality. In addition, Owens and the newspaper were required to compensate the three homosexual complainants with $3,000 each. Ottawa Citizen (by Joanne Laucius)
Wednesday, June 29, 2001

2. In Canada, it is also illegal to criticize any federally-protected groups on recorded telephone messages. If a pastor includes on his telephone prayer line that "God hates homosexuality, but loves the homosexual," he could be indicted for inciting contempt and be sentenced up to five years in prison and a $20,000 fine.

3. Under the BC Human Rights Act of 1993, Doug Collins, a columnist for the North Shore News, was fined $2,000 and subsequently incurred over $200,000 in legal bills-all because he questioned in print the accuracy of the six million figure of Holocaust victims. The North Shore News is now under a cease-and-desist order from publishing Collins's work. Now I do not agree with his stance, but should he be prosecuted for writing this?



”While ostensibly outlawing intimidation of such groups as homosexuals, blacks and Jews, the result of Canada's ‘anti-hate’ law has actually been intimidation of the most sincere and intelligent elements of Canadian society. Thus, concerned Canadians cannot speak out on such vital public issues as the moral and public health threat posed by homosexuality and pedophilia.” - Rev. Ted Pike, American Free Press

4. The long arm of Canada's hate law also threatens American broadcasters. Recently, the Canadian government warned Rev. Jerry Falwell, Dr. James Dobson, and Dr. Laura Schlessinger that their programs will be illegal in Canada unless they omit criticism of homosexuality.

Sounds like you’ve had some experiences with syphilis….which you obviously don’t know how to spell. I hear they are having a big epidemic with Syphilis in the gay community up in Vancouver…..you should be more careful about who’s dick you sit on.

You said:
“And yes, of course Canada isn't immune to terrorism.”

Such a lame response...so that’s your defense for not doing anything about it. September 11th was in 2001 and recent reports are still saying the Canada is a terrorist haven. Now I can forgive the ineptitude before September 11th…but it is almost 2005!

And tell me what contribution is Canada making to provide better security on this Continent? It seems like the US is spending most of the money and manpower. Look at the most recent upgrades along the Canadian-US Boarder…who’s paying for it? According to a 2003 report by the Canadian Navy League Maritime Affairs Committee:

"In Particular, we are deeply concerned that the Canadian Coast Guard has virtually lost its operational capability. Insufficient ships and people exist to maintain the full spectrum of management and safety tasks, and existing vessel are rapidly becoming obsolete with no replacement program in sight." -2003

Sadly, it is the US that is defending the shores of almost the entire continent.

Additionally, Canada’s military expenditures as a percentage of GDP ranks 130th (1.1%), smaller than that of almost all NATO nations. (Source: CIA factbook.)

“Most observers have concluded that these additional funds are not enough to reverse longstanding shortfalls. Last December, the auditor general concluded that the CF suffer from a deficit in the operations and maintenance accounts of $1.3 billion per year. Accordingly, the budget increases left over after paying for the war on terrorism will hardly make a dent in the chronic underfunding of the CF Unless the trend is reversed, however, the CDA predicts that operational readiness will continue to decline as equipment gets older and is not replaced.”
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBY/is_4_78/ai_87018393/pg_2

Numerous articles in Canadian Media and comments from Canadian Politicians have expressed that The Canadian is in such a crisis that Canada is almost completely dependant on the US for National Security. Equipment, aircraft, and naval vessals are in such short supply and have become so antiquated, that people like Lou Cuppens, a retired lieutenant-general and former deputy commander of NORAD have suggested that Canada cannot properly protect its coastline, sea ports, and airspace.

And as far as my original point on Terrorist organizations in Canada, sure we have signed some agreements, but Canada still remains a terrorist haven.

Some sources for you:

So what has made Canada so friendly to terrorists?

Well how about:


A generous welfare system

Lax immigration policies

Light sentencing

Infrequent prosecutions

Limited domestic intelligence services

And it isn’t like this is anything new:

In a 1993 interview with agents CSIS agent, Mohammed Hussein al-Husseini (a man deported from Canada for being a Hezbollah member) said, "Hezbollah has members in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, all of Canada." The man gave details of how Hezbollah conducts surveillance of important buildings in Canada, such as the CSIS' own regional headquarters in Montreal. He told the agents who were interviewing him: "If Hezbollah decided to get this building, it would get it."

The CSIS stated that it believed Hezbollah was prepared to order al-Husseini to commit an act of terrorism or violence in Canada or some other place. If Hezbollah did give such an order, al- Husseini would have carried it out. By Steve Macko, ERRI Analyst (ENN DAILY INTELLIGENCE REPORT-Thursday, May 8, 1997 Vol. 3 – 128)

Also, according to several reports by Israeli intelligence services, HAMAS has several groups operating in Canada. CSIS reports have listed more than 50 international terrorist organizations operating in Canada. Check it out. There are several articles on their website that support this.

Let’s move on to Health care shall we. You think what I said was overblown? Well The Fraser Institute doesn’t think so. You wanted some sources and some examples, if you’re up to some reading why don’t you check the following stuff out then:

Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., and Robert J. Cihak, M.D.
Wednesday, June 9, 2004

How about this:

"Surgery backlog tops 5,500 at kids' hospitals; One-year waits common"
http://www.canada.com/fortstjohn/story.html?id=bd80afe9-10c5-4117-a1d2-608f7a1cee26

or this:

"HOSPITAL WAIT LISTS TO GET WORSE, CARRIERE SAYS"
http://www.yorkregion.com/yr/newscentre/erabanner/story/2343689p-2713202c.html

or the article “Frustrated patients can't handle ER waits”
by Jennifer Stewart and Jeffrey Simpson
October 28, 2004 The Halifax Herald Limited
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/erwait2.html

I particularly liked this article by the Canadian Press: “Canadians have higher death risk than Americans after heart attack: study:”
http://mediresource.sympatico.ca/health_news_detail.asp?channel_id=148&menu_item_id=&news_id=4825

This one is good too “Canada’s Medical Nightmare” from the Heartland Institute:
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15524

“Canadians Losing Face in Healthcare System”, humm…interesting:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1092652674413_3/?hub=TopStories

According to Alberta Health’s website waiting times in Calgary (source: Calgary Herald July 28, 2004):

- 62 weeks for a hip replacement at Peter Lougheed Centre;

- 62 weeks for general surgery at Rocky- view General Hospital;

- 30 weeks for MRI scans at Foothills Medical Centre;

- 54 weeks for knee replacement surgery at Rockyview General Hospital;

- 11 weeks for cardiac surgery at Foothills Medical Centre.

From a great article from the Cato Institue:

“Canada ranks poorly on most measures of access to high-tech care.”
– Fraser Institute 2004 Publication, “How good is Canadian Healthcare?”

More on Hospital Waiting Lists:

Did I provide enough examples and sources for you this time?

The way you pay for your health care is effective? Are you aware that it is no longer sustainable? And I am sure that you think the high taxes (or this effective method) are good for your economy too. High taxes on businesses and Canadian citizens put Canada at an economic disadvantage. It isn’t surprising that there are far more successful people in the US than in Canada. Just look at the Canadian unemployment rate.

Now sure the US has its problems, but if you look at home ownership and the median income of families, it exceeds that of Canada. According to Industry Canada the median income of families in the US increased by 20% between ‘89 – ’99, whereas Canada had an 11% increase. According to a 2001 report by Industry Canada, “The poorest families in the U.S. have seen the largest growth in net worth. In Canada the wealthiest families saw the greatest improvement.” American productivity increased, while Canadian productivity deceased.

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/ineasaes.nsf/vwapj/rpd200103ae.pdf/$FILE/rpd200103ae.pdf

Here is a good article: http://www.canadiansocialresearch.net/taxes2.htm
And something interesting from it:

It looks like the high tax solution to pay for Healthcare isn’t that effective.
But incase you want to argue that point read the following:

http://www.isuma.net/v01n01/contandr/contandr_e.shtml

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0228/p07s02-woam.html

http://www.professionalreferrals.ca/article-40.html (Canadian’s Ill Prepared for Healthcare Costs)…an interesting article.

Do I think Canada sucks....politically, economically...yup I sure do. It is a beautiful country, but the governments left wing policies have destroyed the country. Canada now lives in the shadows of the US and depends on the US for national security and economic survival. You can gladly have your so called left wing eutopia while we sit back and watch it all come crashing down around you. Then we'll have to bail you out of your financial mess like we did with Mexico. But then again out liberals here think so highly of the fucked up Canadian policies that they want to bring it all here.

Such a cute response.

Communist…ok…maybe that was a little too extreme, but there are parallels with communism and Canadian Policy. Hey you you’ve got that wonderful hate-crimes legislation (I will go into this in more detail for you), and Quebec language police. Here is a great essay that goes into some great detail about Canadian policy http://thoughtcrimesca.typepad.com/tcca/2004/07/canadian_foreig_3.html

What about this: “A British Columbia court upheld the one-month suspension, without pay, of a high school teacher who wrote letters to a local paper arguing that homosexuality is not a fixed orientation but a condition that can and should be treated. “ – Vancouver Sun

In this case, the teacher Chris Kempling, was not accused of discrimination, merely of expressing thoughts that the state defines as improper.”

Canadian suppression free speech can be clearly seen in the policies of the CRTC which routinely censors certain points of view, especially those religious in nature.
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/NEWS/RELEASES/1995/r950404b.htm
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/NEWS/RELEASES/1995/r951124.htm

Here are some more examples for you:

1. Anyone who criticizes homosexuality -even a preacher from the pulpit-could be charged In Saskatchewan this summer, an evangelical Christian, Hugh Owens, and the Star Phoenix newspaper ran afoul of this law. They were fined $4,500 each because of Owen's 1997 ad, which did not quote, but merely listed five Bible references critical of homosexuality. In addition, Owens and the newspaper were required to compensate the three homosexual complainants with $3,000 each. Ottawa Citizen (by Joanne Laucius)
Wednesday, June 29, 2001

2. In Canada, it is also illegal to criticize any federally-protected groups on recorded telephone messages. If a pastor includes on his telephone prayer line that "God hates homosexuality, but loves the homosexual," he could be indicted for inciting contempt and be sentenced up to five years in prison and a $20,000 fine.

3. Under the BC Human Rights Act of 1993, Doug Collins, a columnist for the North Shore News, was fined $2,000 and subsequently incurred over $200,000 in legal bills-all because he questioned in print the accuracy of the six million figure of Holocaust victims. The North Shore News is now under a cease-and-desist order from publishing Collins's work. Now I do not agree with his stance, but should he be prosecuted for writing this?



”While ostensibly outlawing intimidation of such groups as homosexuals, blacks and Jews, the result of Canada's ‘anti-hate’ law has actually been intimidation of the most sincere and intelligent elements of Canadian society. Thus, concerned Canadians cannot speak out on such vital public issues as the moral and public health threat posed by homosexuality and pedophilia.” - Rev. Ted Pike, American Free Press

4. The long arm of Canada's hate law also threatens American broadcasters. Recently, the Canadian government warned Rev. Jerry Falwell, Dr. James Dobson, and Dr. Laura Schlessinger that their programs will be illegal in Canada unless they omit criticism of homosexuality.

Sounds like you’ve had some experiences with syphilis….which you obviously don’t know how to spell. I hear they are having a big epidemic with Syphilis in the gay community up in Vancouver…..you should be more careful about who’s dick you sit on.

You said:
“And yes, of course Canada isn't immune to terrorism.”

Such a lame response...so that’s your defense for not doing anything about it. September 11th was in 2001 and recent reports are still saying the Canada is a terrorist haven. Now I can forgive the ineptitude before September 11th…but it is almost 2005!

And tell me what contribution is Canada making to provide better security on this Continent? It seems like the US is spending most of the money and manpower. Look at the most recent upgrades along the Canadian-US Boarder…who’s paying for it? According to a 2003 report by the Canadian Navy League Maritime Affairs Committee:

"In Particular, we are deeply concerned that the Canadian Coast Guard has virtually lost its operational capability. Insufficient ships and people exist to maintain the full spectrum of management and safety tasks, and existing vessel are rapidly becoming obsolete with no replacement program in sight." -2003

Sadly, it is the US that is defending the shores of almost the entire continent.

Additionally, Canada’s military expenditures as a percentage of GDP ranks 130th (1.1%), smaller than that of almost all NATO nations. (Source: CIA factbook.)

“Most observers have concluded that these additional funds are not enough to reverse longstanding shortfalls. Last December, the auditor general concluded that the CF suffer from a deficit in the operations and maintenance accounts of $1.3 billion per year. Accordingly, the budget increases left over after paying for the war on terrorism will hardly make a dent in the chronic underfunding of the CF Unless the trend is reversed, however, the CDA predicts that operational readiness will continue to decline as equipment gets older and is not replaced.”
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0IBY/is_4_78/ai_87018393/pg_2

Numerous articles in Canadian Media and comments from Canadian Politicians have expressed that The Canadian is in such a crisis that Canada is almost completely dependant on the US for National Security. Equipment, aircraft, and naval vessals are in such short supply and have become so antiquated, that people like Lou Cuppens, a retired lieutenant-general and former deputy commander of NORAD have suggested that Canada cannot properly protect its coastline, sea ports, and airspace.

And as far as my original point on Terrorist organizations in Canada, sure we have signed some agreements, but Canada still remains a terrorist haven.

Some sources for you:

So what has made Canada so friendly to terrorists?

Well how about:


A generous welfare system

Lax immigration policies

Light sentencing

Infrequent prosecutions

Limited domestic intelligence services

And it isn’t like this is anything new:

In a 1993 interview with agents CSIS agent, Mohammed Hussein al-Husseini (a man deported from Canada for being a Hezbollah member) said, "Hezbollah has members in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, all of Canada." The man gave details of how Hezbollah conducts surveillance of important buildings in Canada, such as the CSIS' own regional headquarters in Montreal. He told the agents who were interviewing him: "If Hezbollah decided to get this building, it would get it."

The CSIS stated that it believed Hezbollah was prepared to order al-Husseini to commit an act of terrorism or violence in Canada or some other place. If Hezbollah did give such an order, al- Husseini would have carried it out. By Steve Macko, ERRI Analyst (ENN DAILY INTELLIGENCE REPORT-Thursday, May 8, 1997 Vol. 3 – 128)

Also, according to several reports by Israeli intelligence services, HAMAS has several groups operating in Canada. CSIS reports have listed more than 50 international terrorist organizations operating in Canada. Check it out. There are several articles on their website that support this.

Let’s move on to Health care shall we. You think what I said was overblown? Well The Fraser Institute doesn’t think so. You wanted some sources and some examples, if you’re up to some reading why don’t you check the following stuff out then:

Michael Arnold Glueck, M.D., and Robert J. Cihak, M.D.
Wednesday, June 9, 2004

How about this:

"Surgery backlog tops 5,500 at kids' hospitals; One-year waits common"
http://www.canada.com/fortstjohn/story.html?id=bd80afe9-10c5-4117-a1d2-608f7a1cee26

or this:

"HOSPITAL WAIT LISTS TO GET WORSE, CARRIERE SAYS"
http://www.yorkregion.com/yr/newscentre/erabanner/story/2343689p-2713202c.html

or the article “Frustrated patients can't handle ER waits”
by Jennifer Stewart and Jeffrey Simpson
October 28, 2004 The Halifax Herald Limited
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/erwait2.html

I particularly liked this article by the Canadian Press: “Canadians have higher death risk than Americans after heart attack: study:”
http://mediresource.sympatico.ca/health_news_detail.asp?channel_id=148&menu_item_id=&news_id=4825

This one is good too “Canada’s Medical Nightmare” from the Heartland Institute:
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15524

“Canadians Losing Face in Healthcare System”, humm…interesting:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1092652674413_3/?hub=TopStories

According to Alberta Health’s website waiting times in Calgary (source: Calgary Herald July 28, 2004):

- 62 weeks for a hip replacement at Peter Lougheed Centre;

- 62 weeks for general surgery at Rocky- view General Hospital;

- 30 weeks for MRI scans at Foothills Medical Centre;

- 54 weeks for knee replacement surgery at Rockyview General Hospital;

- 11 weeks for cardiac surgery at Foothills Medical Centre.

From a great article from the Cato Institue:

“Canada ranks poorly on most measures of access to high-tech care.”
– Fraser Institute 2004 Publication, “How good is Canadian Healthcare?”

More on Hospital Waiting Lists:

Did I provide enough examples and sources for you this time?

The way you pay for your health care is effective? Are you aware that it is no longer sustainable? And I am sure that you think the high taxes (or this effective method) are good for your economy too. High taxes on businesses and Canadian citizens put Canada at an economic disadvantage. It isn’t surprising that there are far more successful people in the US than in Canada. Just look at the Canadian unemployment rate.

Now sure the US has its problems, but if you look at home ownership and the median income of families, it exceeds that of Canada. According to Industry Canada the median income of families in the US increased by 20% between ‘89 – ’99, whereas Canada had an 11% increase. According to a 2001 report by Industry Canada, “The poorest families in the U.S. have seen the largest growth in net worth. In Canada the wealthiest families saw the greatest improvement.” American productivity increased, while Canadian productivity deceased.

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/ineasaes.nsf/vwapj/rpd200103ae.pdf/$FILE/rpd200103ae.pdf

Here is a good article: http://www.canadiansocialresearch.net/taxes2.htm
And something interesting from it:

It looks like the high tax solution to pay for Healthcare isn’t that effective.
But incase you want to argue that point read the following:

http://www.isuma.net/v01n01/contandr/contandr_e.shtml

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0228/p07s02-woam.html

http://www.professionalreferrals.ca/article-40.html (Canadian’s Ill Prepared for Healthcare Costs)…an interesting article.

Do I think Canada sucks....politically, economically...yup I sure do. It is a beautiful country, but the governments left wing policies have destroyed the country. Canada now lives in the shadows of the US and depends on the US for national security and economic survival. You can gladly have your so called left wing eutopia while we sit back and watch it all come crashing down around you. Then we'll have to bail you out of your financial mess like we did with Mexico. But then again out liberals here think so highly of the fucked up Canadian policies that they want to bring it all here.

Sorry about the double post and the fucked up format. I totally screwed it up.

I think Shamu hasn't replied because he's crushed under the weight of all that-- that-- what the hell was all that?

Just enough to keep him reading for the next 6 months.

I posted the line that Canadians are just Mexicans with sweaters...I thought it hilarious when I first heard it- and when I told it to a very good friend of mine who is Canadian, he howled. It is funny because it is so far-fetched.

I apologize for any hurt feelings.

Not meant to be mean, no harm intended...and not a speck of truth in it. But it does poke fun at our relationship with our northern neighbors, and the behemoth that is the US.

Canada is beautiful, it's people friendly, and, for the most part- they have a great sense of humor. I will always have a spot in my heart for Canada. I grew up in Minnesota, and i think we always felt very close to Canada, akin, in more ways than just geographical.

Hmmm...where to begin. I'll give you credit for actually doing some work and coming up with some examples which support some of your arguments (unlike most people), while clearly ignoring similar censorship examples in the States, and overblowing the health care situation in Canada. Not to mention that I actually did state in a previous post that Canada has an embarassingly depleted military (which, if you didn't need things explained to you, would imply that I also acknowledge a need to increase it).

First, let's look at the censorship angle, which you started out with.

You're basically implying that the US is the shining example of free speech that Canada should take note of. I think it's only fair to point out how much of a pile of crap this is, since it's pretty easy to come up with US examples of censorship in action:

1) Here's the 2003 list of the top 10 books banned in the US school system. Apparently Huck Finn is morally objectionable, but the fact it's considered a literary classic seems oblivious to many people. And Harry Potter tops the list! A book about a boy who's a wizard. Nice.
http://www.ala.org/ala/pressreleasesbucket/pressreleases2003/harrypotterseries.htm

2) The FCC has a pretty long history of censoring radio talk shows. This I won't get into, because I could be here almost as long as you were in posting your reply. But it was only a month ago that the FCC was threatening to fine ABC affiliates who showed Saving Private Ryan.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/11/news/fortune500/savingpvt_ryan/

I could post a lot more FCC censorship examples, but I figured a current one involving a movie revered by war veterans would suffice.

3) Let's not forget that after 9/11, the Patriot Act has effectively started the transition of the US into a quasi-police state where anti-American activity (like art exhibits: http://www.progressive.org/0901/roth0102.html). The Patriot Act is especially troubling, and I'll get to more of that in a moment.

4) October, 2001, , Newsday reported that it pulled the comic strip "The Boondocks" from its paper because it criticized U.S. support of Osama bin Laden during the Soviet/Afghanistan war.

5) And, of course, the fact it's illegal to burn the American Flag. Jail time for speaking one's mind. Nice.

As for Quebec's language law, everyone (including many Quebecers) believe it's a poor bill and that it has more of a negative impact than anything beneficial. Of course, you conveniently left out the fact that it's main purpose is to preserve the French language, which has been there for centuries, from disappearing due to a predominantly anglo country, not to deliberately punish anglophones.

As for Canada's military, I said from the beginning that it was lacking (when I said that it was highly trained, but embarassingly depleted). I guess you only read what you want. So... thanks anyways for agreeing with me on that point. And please, enough with the "we're paying for this and that" bullshit. Canada pays a fair bit for border security as is outlined here:
http://www.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/publications/national_security/pdf/Kenny_report_e.pdf

And give me a break, the US is paying for all the border enhancement? So, the US is paying for Canadian airport security upgrades? The US is patrolling Canadian waters? Didn't think so.

Oh, and I love how you describe it as "ineptitude" prior to 9/11. I mean, it's not like the 9/11 terrorists came in through the Canadian immigration system (that was yours, btw). Good job on that one. I mean, if Canada had ineptitude, the US must have had utter stupidity for allowing all 20 terrorists into their country to train, plan, and commit these atrocities, right?

Oh, and this article of yours about Canada being a "haven" to terrorism is priceless:
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Nats_Hospitable.pdf

Apparently, having free speech is one of the factors listed as to why Canada is so favored - of course, this was something you claimed Canada was lacking in, right?

Anyways, it lists the following values are considered encouraging of terrorist activity: right to life, liberty, freedom of movement, freedom of speech, protection of unreasonable search and seizure, and protection against arbitrary search and seizure or imprisonment.

Holy shit, what a bunch of fucking monsters for having a society where people aren't treated like Gestapo criminals! I guess you'd only be happy if all of these were repealed (in both countries) to protect your sense of insecurity? Oh, and you conveniently left out the fact that terrorist funds in Canada were frozen in conjunction with the US border agreements, that terrorist organizations are monitored and outlawed, and that Canada has enacted along with the US the Smart Border Declaration of 2001. You might have read this if you had read past the first couple of paragraphs, but I don't mind shooting down your argument with your own source. Like, for example, the Refugee Protection Act of 2002, which will make it much more difficult for individuals who are known or believed to be engaged in terrorist activity to gain entrance to Canada, mainly through in-depth CSIS screening. Sure, Canada is going to get some attention from terrorists because it borders the US, likely the primary target of any Islamic terrorist organization (with the possible exception of Israel). You could put any country where Canada is now, and you'd have terrorist organizations trying to gain access to Canada because of it shares the border. Canada being Canada doesn't change the value of its location in relation to the US.

As for the KPMG article about money laundering, you do realize that all Canadian banking institutions have to meet US government guidelines regarding anti-money laundering measures? Because Canada and the US are so closely intertwined with each others economies, financial institutions in Canada following 9/11 were required to meet these stringent standards, or they wouldn't have been able to continue to do business with the US. In other words, Canada's money laundering rules were set by the US, so if you think they're lax then go look to your own country for something better.

Hezbollah was in Canada in 1993? What's your point? Hamas was in the US in 2001. In fact, it was only several months AFTER 9/11 that the Bush administration acted to freeze their assets.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/hamas4.html

Apparently the US attracted terrorist activity as much as Canada. But hey, let's single out Canada. And as long as we're pointing fingers as to which country was a haven for terrorists...
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040326-121658-5191r.htm

Operating in Maryland and Virginia since 1991, it looks like the US was attracting terrorist activity before Canada was.

How about this article, which shows the US had Hezbollah in Charlotte in 2002?
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/20/hezbollah.trial/

You can't claim that Canada is this hotbed of terrorist activity without looking at your own country. People in glasses houses shouldn't throw stones, you know.

Ok, health care time. Once again, you agree with me on a key point I made. I stated that SURGERIES can result in waits. Half of your sources supported my statement (so, thanks, I guess). Do I wish the wait times were shorter? Of course. But, if you asked any of those patients if they would prefer paying out of their own pocket to pay for those surgeries or wait, the majority of them would wait. This is the difference between the US health care system and Canada's. Sure, the wait time in the US is shorter, because it costs so fucking much. Who wants to go in for surgery if it means taking a mortgage out on their house to do so.

I mean, how great it must be to shell out about $25,000 for heart bypass surgery:
http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/002946.cfm#Cost:

Or over $12,000 for hip replacement surgery:
http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/002975.cfm#Cost:

Or let's hope you're not one of those poor souls that has to have brain surgery, costing you anywhere from $10,000 - $100,000:
http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/003018.cfm#Cost:

Yeah, surgery wait lines are longer in Canada. But, the vast majority obviously live to see the day of their surgery (you make it sound like it's the frontiers or something) and they're not in debt for the rest of their lives afterwards.

Oh, sure, we have our failings. I mean, we continue to entertain roving bands of US senior citizens that can't afford drug prices in the US. And sometimes we're a little too generous in that we give you guys some flu shot vaccines because you can't be trusted to prepare enough for yourself. But hey, nobody is perfect.

I mean, you can't really say the US health care system is this glorious example to the world, when your president has made it an election promise to overhaul it. You don't overhaul an entire system unless there are fundamental problems to it.

Here's an October 2004 article that shows that 62% of Americans favour a move to make America's health care system more like Canada's (which, by my estimates would include a fair number of Republicans, since the Democrat vote garnered less than 62% in the last US election).
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/14/BUGR28JFEN59.DTL

And, actually, there is a movement in Canada to allow private health care operators to provide services, meaning if people have the means to pay for their own surgeries, they would be able to do so. This would ease the burden on existing hospitals, and would likely reduce the waiting times you threw out. Whether or not this would happen is anyone's guess. But, it would let those who can pay do so and those who can't would still have access to free health care. I'm completely indifferent on the issue.

Basically, it comes down to whether you want to pay for health care or not. And there are positives and negatives to each side, as I mentioned above. You can pay and possibly owe a ton of money afterwards, or you can wait awhile and not pay. And, I can tell you, most people are not worse off because they had to wait 30 or 50 weeks. Sure, they obviously would like to be treated faster, but not at the expense of owing money forever.

Canada spends close to 10% of its GDP on health care ( http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_09jun2004_b1_e)
If Canada can't sustain this, as you claim, then how is it that Canada has had numerous budget surpluses over the last 7 years? And Canada can address any health care shortcomings in its health care system (or military or elsewhere) with proceeds from those surpluses.

This is an interesting article about Canada's surpluses.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/budget/

It's interesting that the last US president to have a surplus was Clinton. Interesting in that it's three "liberal" governments (his, and the two Canadian governments under Jean Chretien and Paul Martin) that have been fiscally responsible while the Conservative governments in Canada created the largest deficits in Canadian history, and Bush is doing the same in your country.

I'm sure it must be infuriating to US conservatives. While Canada, this horrible bastion of socialism that you despise so much runs up surplus after surplus, the US has just announced that it will have one of the largest budget deficits in history (which will combine quite terribly with its already existing trade deficit).

Canada has the second-lowest debt burden of the G7
http://www.globalinsight.com/Perspective/PerspectiveDetail859.htm
which puts Canada as much more fiscally responsible than the US. In fact, the chief economist of the Toronto Dominion Bank called President Bush's recent fiscal decisions as "economically reckless" (it was interesting to hear him describe them as "economically questionable" several years ago). Apparently, the US's response to beating the deficit is to spend even more. I mean, sure, Canada is socialist - but not to that extent.

Oh, and please tell me how the US will bail Canada out? The Canadian dollar has been strengthening against the greenback, the surpluses mentioned above, and the richness in resources pretty much mean Canada is in a better position at the moment than the US. But yeah, good thing the US helped us out with all of this - I mean full credit to them for showing Canada how not to fuck up a country.

Karl,

If only more Americans were like you.

Cheers!

Incidentally, I decided against listing the suppressions of individual free speech and privacy as outlined in the Patriot Act simply because I'd be writing all day about.

Basically, sections 206 and sections 214-216 all make it legal and permissible for law enforcement agencies to wiretap, collect information of Internet traffic, and issue gag orders about what said agencies have done, all without any evidence of guilt.

Sounds like a grand ole time.

Shamu,

Three words: editors edit.

Hey, just fighting fire with fire.