Intermarkets' Privacy Policy
Support


Donate to Ace of Spades HQ!


Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
CBD:
cbd at cutjibnewsletter.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com


Recent Entries
Absent Friends
Jay Guevara 2025
Jim Sunk New Dawn 2025
Jewells45 2025
Bandersnatch 2024
GnuBreed 2024
Captain Hate 2023
moon_over_vermont 2023
westminsterdogshow 2023
Ann Wilson(Empire1) 2022
Dave In Texas 2022
Jesse in D.C. 2022
OregonMuse 2022
redc1c4 2021
Tami 2021

Chavez the Hugo 2020
Ibguy 2020
Rickl 2019
Joffen 2014
AoSHQ Writers Group
A site for members of the Horde to post their stories seeking beta readers, editing help, brainstorming, and story ideas. Also to share links to potential publishing outlets, writing help sites, and videos posting tips to get published. Contact OrangeEnt for info:
maildrop62 at proton dot me
Cutting The Cord And Email Security
Moron Meet-Ups

TBD





















« Worst. Make-out Song. Ever. | Main | Kerry's Stepson Agrees: The problem is the J-E-W-S »
October 31, 2004

Nightmare Scenario

What if the Electoral College splits 269-269 (it's actually quite possible; a lot of likely state splits will yield this result), and then the election is thrown into the House of Representatives?

No problem, you say. The Republicans control more state delegations and thus would elect Bush from the House in the event of a tie.

But that assumes that the Democrats don't refuse to come to Washington, DC, thus denying the House a lawful quorum. Which, based on the partisan hatred among leftists, and the previous gamesmanship in Texas, isn't too far-fetched.

What would happen? Would Hastert tell the Sergeant of Arms and the Federal Marshals to begin rounding up/arresting runaway Democrats and holding them prisoner in the well of the Congress?

Would the Supreme Court be forced to intervene-- again -- and make the controversial decision that, given a refusal to comply with Constitutional requirements, the normal rules of quorum are temporarily suspended?

Could the Democrats negotiate for some prize-- like a Democratic Vice-President, in exchange for their cooperation?


posted by Ace at 11:21 AM
Comments



One or more individual electors could change their vote. That could either end the problem, or create it in the first place.

Posted by: David [.net] on October 31, 2004 11:26 AM

I think there is a limit to what the elected dems will do. Not the people, but the reps and senators. They do have some long sight. Passions of the people will wane. But they have to run for reelection and a republican running against a dem that refused to show up to vote on something like president of the usa is a hell of a campaign ad.

Posted by: Jennifer on October 31, 2004 11:34 AM

Two months ago, I pointed out that it was the 23rd Amendment, giving D.C. its three electoral votes, that makes Electoral College ties possible. Before that, there had been an odd number of electors for a century or more, since the House of Representatives had had an odd number of members, no doubt to discourage ties in ordinary votes. (The Senate has the Vice President to break ties. The fact that the Constitution provides no such officer for the House suggests that the Founding Fathers envisioned an odd number there, though 19th-century reapportionments sometimes made the number even.)

Of course, with "faithless electors" (not to mention Swiss bank accounts) an odd-numbered Electoral College would be no guarantee of a quick or clear decision in a close vote, nor will an evenly-divided vote necessarily send the election to the House. But an odd number wouldn't hurt.

Posted by: Dr. Weevil on October 31, 2004 11:43 AM


D's not showing up likely not a problem: Constitution Article I:

Section. 5.
Clause 1: Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.

Posted by: Cephalus on October 31, 2004 11:52 AM

There's also no way they could negotiate for a Democratic VP, since the VP is selected by the Senate, and the House would have no real way to control the Senate vote.

Posted by: Joe R. the Unabrewer on October 31, 2004 12:01 PM

However, if Kerry won the popular vote, there would be tremendous pressure from the Democratic Party and the MSM on representatives to vote for a Kerry presidency. A Bush win in the House, under these circumstances, would draw the legitimacy of his presidency into even more question than the Florida vote in 2000, despite the fact that he would be constitutionally elected. (Voting in the House is by state delegation: 30 states currently have R majorities, 15 D majorities, 4 tied, one delegation has an independent)

Posted by: Cephalus on October 31, 2004 12:15 PM

This not only happens for a tie, but also if one or more states is unable to declare a winner, and no one gets to the magic 270 number by the hard limit of Jan 3. So any situation that dismisses Ohio, PA or FL makes this and even more real possibility.

Once we hit that hard deadline, all of the votes get thrown out and the house gets determined by an obscure type of vote by the members of the house of Representatives.

The relevant portions of the Constitution and law that I have found are the 12th,20th,25th amendment and the presidential succession act of 1947 (as amended in 2002)

The statutes, although odd are pretty well laid out in the constitution . I wouldn’t expect the Supreme Court to overturn a rule that is plainly laid out in the constitution and hurts Bush. I think they would find that the framers expected tis to be a tough fight as they originally gave them until March to figure it out.
The relevant part of the 12’th that requires a 2/3 quarum in order for the vote to count:

;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.--The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice.

On Jan 21st President Hastert will we sworn in as our Acting President.

Rachmeg

Posted by: Rachmeg on October 31, 2004 12:25 PM

"2/3s quorum"

" the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states,"

This says that a qurorm is achieved when two thirds of the states have at least one member present, not that two-thirds of all members are present. So if the Dems walk, only those states with no GOP members count against the quorum.

Remember that after this desparate attempt, these Dems will then have to go back and work with the GOP majority to get their pork passed. (Then again, the 144 years ago the Dems were willing to start a war when an election result wasn't to their liking.)

Posted by: Raoul Ortega on October 31, 2004 01:31 PM

Please. For the love of God. Stop. Just what I need. ANOTHER nightmare scenario to ponder. As if the prospect of a Kerry presidency isn't enough of a nightmare on it's own.

Posted by: Bloghorn Bleghorn on October 31, 2004 02:13 PM

Given the contingency that the EC does not work and the election is thrown into the House of Representatives, and then the Democrats decide to not show up, denying that body a quorum:

How many Democrats were AWOL when Congress started session in 1861 or 1865 when Mr. Lincoln was (re)elected? I seem to recall from the history books that a sizeable portion of the country did not participate back then.

Methinks that enough congressmen can be rounded up to form a quorum, or perhaps those present can vote a rules change redefining a quorum. We have a precedent in that unpleasantness of Mr. Lincoln's time that could provide some guidance.

Posted by: steve poling on October 31, 2004 11:53 PM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?








Now Available!
The Deplorable Gourmet
A Horde-sourced Cookbook
[All profits go to charity]
Top Headlines
CJN podcast 1400 copy.jpg
Podcast: Will Ukraine be a flashpoint for a Korean conflict, Trump's intemperate Reiner comments, it's the economy stupid! the Monroe/Trump Doctrine, Bondi, Brown, MIT, and more!
Fearful French cancel NYE concert on Champs-Élysées as migrant violence grows
The time is now! France must fight for its culture! [CBD]
Megyn Kelly finally calls out Candace Owens
Whoops, I meant she bravely attacks Sydney Sweeney for "bending the knee." (Sweeney put out a very empty PR statement saying "I'm against hate." Whoop-de-doo.)
Megyn Kelly claims she doesn't want to call people out on the right when asked about Candace Owens but then has no compunctions at all about calling people out on the right.
As long as they're not Candace Owens. Strangely, she seems blind and deaf to anything Candace Owens says. That's why this woman calls her "Megyn Keller."
She's now asking her pay-pigs in Pakistan how they think she should address the Candace Owens situation, and if they think this is really all about Israel and the Jews.
CJN podcast 1400 copy.jpg
Podcast: Pete Hegseth is everything the left hates...and we love! Illinois is the next flashpoint for federal supremacy with regard to our borders, Trump's communication leaves something to be desired, and more!
I have happily forgotten what Milo Yiannopoulos sounds like, but I still enjoyed this impression from from Ami Kozak.
More revelations about the least-sexy broken relationship in media history
I'd wanted to review Parts 2, 3, and 4 of Ryan Lizza's revenge posts about Olivia Nuzzi, but they're all paywalled. I thought about briefly subscribing to get at them, but then I read this in Part 2:
Remember the bamboo from Part 1?

Do I ever! It's all I remember!
Well, bamboo is actually a type of grass, and underground, it's all connected in a sprawling network, just like the parts of this story I never wanted to tell. I wish I hadn't been put in this position, that I didn't have to write about any of this, that I didn't have to subject myself or my loved ones to embarrassment and further loss of privacy.

We're back to the fucking bamboo. Guys, I don't think I can pay for bamboo ruminations.
I think he added that because he was embarrassed about all the bamboo imagery from Part 1. He's justifying his twin obsessions: His ex, and bamboo. Which is not a tree but a kind of grass, he'll have you know.
Olivia Nuzzi's crappy Sex and the City fanfic book isn't selling, says CNN (and CNN seems pretty pleased about that)
On Tuesday, the book arrived in stores. At lunchtime, in the Midtown Manhattan nexus of media and publishing, interest in Nuzzi's story seemed more muted. The Barnes and Noble on Fifth Avenue had seven copies tucked into a "New & Notable" rack next to the escalator, below Malala Yousafzai's "Finding My Way." Not many had sold so far, a store employee said.

A few blocks uptown, at a branch of the local independent chain McNally Jackson Books, a few volumes lay on a table of new and noteworthy nonfiction near the front of the store. No one was lining up to get them, or even browsing. Bookseller Alex Howe told CNN around 3 p.m. that though the store had procured "several dozen" copies, not a single one had yet sold -- a figure he said was surprising, considering how many people in media and publishing work in the area.

"We ordered a lot and so far, people have not been beating down the door," Howe said. "I'm not sure where we're gonna put them because right now, supply is outpacing demand." (A manager at McNally Jackson noted that Howe was speaking only in a personal capacity, not as a representative of the store.)

She trashes Ryan Lizza for his "Revenge Porn" here. Emily Jashinsky says that when the Bulwark's gay grifter Tim Miller asked why she didn't report on the (alleged) use of ketamine by RFKJr., she broke down in tears and asked to end the interview.
Canada Euthanized a Record 16.4K People Last Year
Aktion T4, now with Poutine! [CBD]
CJN podcast 1400 copy.jpg
Podcast: Sefton is back with CBD to discuss killing narco-terrorists (we are both for it!), the TN special election, Trump's communication skills, and more!
Minneapolis mayor Jacob Frey vows to Somali criminals that he will not cooperate with ICE, then begins speaking in Somali
Gee I wonder why Walz allowed Somali pirates to steal 1 billion in American dollars... could it possibly be that criminal illegal aliens are voting in elections and the Democrats know it and play to that illegal constituency?
Incumbent Senator John Cornyn (RINO - TX) betrayed his party and his country by voting in favor Biden's Afghan resettlement bill in 2021. Cornyn voted to bring in the Afghan who shot two National Guard soldiers on US soil. A vote for Cornyn is an endorsement of importing unvetted, radicalized murderers. [Buck]
Escaped "SlenderMan Stabber" picked up with her "transgender" friend
We're increasingly loose with the word "transgender" aren't we?
Recent Comments
Don't blame the alligators: "Tucker Carlson is all-in. On Tucker Carlson. ..."

no one: "Only because I read the content. ..."

no one: "Hi. ..."

Don't blame the alligators: "First! ..."

Tamaa the Drongo Bird: "Lets deport the Democrats as well ..."

Lizzy[/i]: "More on Reiner's connections to the Trump coup att ..."

Tamaa the Drongo Bird: "She is better off running to the Bar and mess ..."

Blonde Morticia: " Well, AI sez that if you obtain U.S. citizenship ..."

BurtTC: "I'm going to be a bit contrarian about Bongino. Th ..."

Bertram Cabot, Jr.: " [i]The paradox of DC. Too many insiders who are ..."

Field Marshal Zhukov: "No body wants to compare the offspring of Trump wi ..."

Smell the Glove : "Glad to see Drew Barrymore got sober. Now she's ju ..."

Bloggers in Arms
Some Humorous Asides
Archives