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| Kerry's Stepson Agrees: The problem is the J-E-W-S »
October 31, 2004
Nightmare ScenarioWhat if the Electoral College splits 269-269 (it's actually quite possible; a lot of likely state splits will yield this result), and then the election is thrown into the House of Representatives? No problem, you say. The Republicans control more state delegations and thus would elect Bush from the House in the event of a tie. But that assumes that the Democrats don't refuse to come to Washington, DC, thus denying the House a lawful quorum. Which, based on the partisan hatred among leftists, and the previous gamesmanship in Texas, isn't too far-fetched. What would happen? Would Hastert tell the Sergeant of Arms and the Federal Marshals to begin rounding up/arresting runaway Democrats and holding them prisoner in the well of the Congress? Would the Supreme Court be forced to intervene-- again -- and make the controversial decision that, given a refusal to comply with Constitutional requirements, the normal rules of quorum are temporarily suspended? Could the Democrats negotiate for some prize-- like a Democratic Vice-President, in exchange for their cooperation? posted by Ace at 11:21 AM
CommentsOne or more individual electors could change their vote. That could either end the problem, or create it in the first place. Posted by: David [.net] on October 31, 2004 11:26 AM
I think there is a limit to what the elected dems will do. Not the people, but the reps and senators. They do have some long sight. Passions of the people will wane. But they have to run for reelection and a republican running against a dem that refused to show up to vote on something like president of the usa is a hell of a campaign ad. Posted by: Jennifer on October 31, 2004 11:34 AM
Two months ago, I pointed out that it was the 23rd Amendment, giving D.C. its three electoral votes, that makes Electoral College ties possible. Before that, there had been an odd number of electors for a century or more, since the House of Representatives had had an odd number of members, no doubt to discourage ties in ordinary votes. (The Senate has the Vice President to break ties. The fact that the Constitution provides no such officer for the House suggests that the Founding Fathers envisioned an odd number there, though 19th-century reapportionments sometimes made the number even.) Of course, with "faithless electors" (not to mention Swiss bank accounts) an odd-numbered Electoral College would be no guarantee of a quick or clear decision in a close vote, nor will an evenly-divided vote necessarily send the election to the House. But an odd number wouldn't hurt. Posted by: Dr. Weevil on October 31, 2004 11:43 AM
Section. 5. Posted by: Cephalus on October 31, 2004 11:52 AM
There's also no way they could negotiate for a Democratic VP, since the VP is selected by the Senate, and the House would have no real way to control the Senate vote. Posted by: Joe R. the Unabrewer on October 31, 2004 12:01 PM
However, if Kerry won the popular vote, there would be tremendous pressure from the Democratic Party and the MSM on representatives to vote for a Kerry presidency. A Bush win in the House, under these circumstances, would draw the legitimacy of his presidency into even more question than the Florida vote in 2000, despite the fact that he would be constitutionally elected. (Voting in the House is by state delegation: 30 states currently have R majorities, 15 D majorities, 4 tied, one delegation has an independent) Posted by: Cephalus on October 31, 2004 12:15 PM
This not only happens for a tie, but also if one or more states is unable to declare a winner, and no one gets to the magic 270 number by the hard limit of Jan 3. So any situation that dismisses Ohio, PA or FL makes this and even more real possibility. Once we hit that hard deadline, all of the votes get thrown out and the house gets determined by an obscure type of vote by the members of the house of Representatives. The relevant portions of the Constitution and law that I have found are the 12th,20th,25th amendment and the presidential succession act of 1947 (as amended in 2002) The statutes, although odd are pretty well laid out in the constitution . I wouldn’t expect the Supreme Court to overturn a rule that is plainly laid out in the constitution and hurts Bush. I think they would find that the framers expected tis to be a tough fight as they originally gave them until March to figure it out. ;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.--The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. On Jan 21st President Hastert will we sworn in as our Acting President. Rachmeg Posted by: Rachmeg on October 31, 2004 12:25 PM
"2/3s quorum" " the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states," This says that a qurorm is achieved when two thirds of the states have at least one member present, not that two-thirds of all members are present. So if the Dems walk, only those states with no GOP members count against the quorum. Remember that after this desparate attempt, these Dems will then have to go back and work with the GOP majority to get their pork passed. (Then again, the 144 years ago the Dems were willing to start a war when an election result wasn't to their liking.) Posted by: Raoul Ortega on October 31, 2004 01:31 PM
Please. For the love of God. Stop. Just what I need. ANOTHER nightmare scenario to ponder. As if the prospect of a Kerry presidency isn't enough of a nightmare on it's own. Posted by: Bloghorn Bleghorn on October 31, 2004 02:13 PM
Given the contingency that the EC does not work and the election is thrown into the House of Representatives, and then the Democrats decide to not show up, denying that body a quorum: How many Democrats were AWOL when Congress started session in 1861 or 1865 when Mr. Lincoln was (re)elected? I seem to recall from the history books that a sizeable portion of the country did not participate back then. Methinks that enough congressmen can be rounded up to form a quorum, or perhaps those present can vote a rules change redefining a quorum. We have a precedent in that unpleasantness of Mr. Lincoln's time that could provide some guidance. Posted by: steve poling on October 31, 2004 11:53 PM
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Funniest thing I've read about the Virginia mess. Back when they were hustling the referendum through the assembly both Senators, Warner and Kaine, advised them to go slow and play by the rules. Louise Lucas said she respected them but didn't need advice from the "cuck chair" in the corner. The gerrymandering was overturned and Louise is heading for the big house. Edward G. Robinson voice "where's your cuck now?" I posted his post on twitter and it's gotten 25K views so far. Thanks, Smell the Glove Chris
Forgotten 80s Mystery Click That Sums Up the Democrat Communist Party Today
Something is wrong as I hold you near Somebody else holds your heart, yeah You turn to me with your icy tears And then it's raining, feels like it's raining
"It's f**king f**ked."
-- reportedly a genuine comment offered by a "senior Labour source" Correction: I wrote that Labour is losing 88% (now 87%) of the seats it is "defending." I think that's wrong. The right way to say it is the seats they are contesting -- that is, they don't necessarily already hold these seats, but they have put up a candidate to run for the seat. It's still very bad but not as bad as losing 87% of the seats they already held. Basil the Great
"The end of the two party system in the UK" as first the Fake Conservatives and now Labour chooses political suicide rather than simply STOPPING THE INVASION
Incidentally, the only reason this didn't already happen in the US is because of the Very Bad Orange Man (who is right on 85% of all policy calls and extremely, existentially right on 15% of them)
No political party that is NOT also a doomsday religious cult would EVER choose a cataclysmic loss -- and possible extinction as a party -- to support a toxically unpopular favoritism of NON-CITIZEN ILLEGAL MIGRANTS over actual citizen voters.
Only a cult does this.
Now they've lost 84%.
Annunziata Rees-Mogg Update: They've now lost 88% of the seats they're defending. As I mentioned earlier, I think I heard that London will not bail them out, as many of those Labour seats will probably flip to "Muslim Independent" or Green. Detroit's 5am vote will not save them.
Yup, Labour is losing 80% of its seats...
The British Patriot Wow, up to 1700-2100 seats. It's not incredible that this is happening. It's incredible that the Davos crowd is so absolutely determined to privilege Muslim "migrants" over the actual native population who elects them, no matter how loudly the natives scream that they want to be prioritized, that they will gladly self-extinguish as a party rather than simply representing the interests of their own voters. Astonishing. Remember, when they call other people "cultists" -- they are the ones so imprisoned in their social reinforcement and discipline bubbles that they will choose political death rather than dare upset the Karen Enforcement Officers of their cult. Update: Now they've lost 83% of the seats they were defending. (((Dan Hodges))) Nick Lowles
STARMERGEDDON: In early returns, Reform gains 135 seats, Labour loses 90, the Fake Conservatives lose 36 (and I didn't even know they could fall any further), the Lib Dems lose 4, and the Greens gain 6. Note that the only other party gaining seats is the Greens and they're only gaining a handful of seats.
Update: Reform now up 145, Labour down 98. Labour projected to lose Wales -- where they've ruled for 27 years. Fulton County Georgia just discovered 400 boxes of ballots for Labour Update: REF +156, LAB -107, CON -45 Brutal: In four out of five council seats where Labour is defending, they've lost. 80%. I'm sure it's not this simple, but Reform is straight taking Labour's and the "Conservatives'" seats. They've lost almost exactly what Reform gained. If understand this right (and warning, I probably don't), all of London's council seats are up for election, and Labour might lose hugely there, as their old voters abandon them for Reform, Muslim Indenpendents, and the Greens. REF +190, LAB -134, CON -56.
Updates on the Labour collapse in council elections -- which wags are calling #Starmergeddon -- from Beege Welborne. There are about 5000 seats up for grabs, Labour is expected to lose 1,800, Reform will probably gain 1,580, up from... zero. So this would be more than that.
People claim that while Labour has adopted the Sharia Agenda to appeal to the million Muslims it allowed to migrate to the country, those voters are ditching Labour to vote for the Muslim Independent Party or the Greens. Delicious. This shadenfreude is going straight to my thighs. Oh, and if Starmer loses about as badly as expected, Labour will toss him out of a window Braveheart style and replace him. He will announce he is resigning to spend more time with his Gay Ukrainian Male Prostitutes.
Media bias and senationalism are as old as, well, the media:
![]() That was written by Denny O'Neill and illustrated by, get this, Frank Miller. Editor to the Stars Jim Shooter was in charge at the time. I always thought the gag was original to the comic book, but in fact the "Threat or Menace" headline was a satirical joke about media bias and sensationalism for a long while. The Harvard Lampoon used it in a parody of Life magazine: "Flying Saucers: Threat or Menace?"
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