BINGO.

You're onto something there. . .

Dear ace of Spades HQ. Can you guys develop this further and come up with something really good? There is some thought here that goes beyond what I've read on any blog. Powerline has a small portion of it, but this goes further, and I think you could take it much further still.
See:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1216338/posts

I'm a computer ignoramus, so please feel free to correct me if this is impossible, but I have been known to accidentally screw up the date on my PC so that for a while it looks like I'm typing something six months in the future. Is it possible that someone could have just scanned the thing while their computer was set to a wrong date and not noticed? I mean, if it's just this one file, that could be a possibility.

/knows nothing about PDF, just wondering based on my occasional impossible time stamps.

It's possible to create any time stamp you want if you adjust your computer's clock. It isn't an authoritative datum unless it can be shown that the computer in question was synced to an external source, as is common on networks. In fact windows includes a function to sync the local clock to that of the server, which in turn is synced to a high accuracy source. This makes it so the administrator only needs to keep an eye on one clock to be asured all of them are in sync.

A link! A link! My kingdom for a link (to the Fox PDF)!

Ace--

As the one who spotted this originally, I have to say I am now doubtful of its usefulness. The Fox PDF is dated February and unmodified. However, the PDF itself does bear the September 10 fax time stamp as well as the residue of another fax time stamp, possibly whited over previously. The problem is, you have to make outlandish assumptions about time-capsule-style dating seven months ahead of time in order to accept that the PDF was actually created in February.

The computer clock being off is a much more reasonable answer.

There is one possibility that I put to all computer geeks: Is it possible to "fax" a PDF? If so, would this create an automatic time stamp like the one visible in the Fox document?

Without explaining how the stamp got on there without altering the "modified" date in the PDF's Document Properties, I don't think this runs very far.

I'm all ears, though.

CBS has vaguely suggested they've had these documents for several weeks. If somebody has been trying to peddle them to news outlets for a long while before CBS got desperate and took the bait, these date of creation could go back all the way to when Word 97 was released. Although who would be obsessing on Bush that far back is unknown.

TBR,

I will do so. Give me a sec.

Susan,

I already discussed the Dan Rather Expert-Shopping thing yesterday, I think, but I'm losing track, and Dan Rather's deliberate, not negligent, dishonesty here.

But I, and everyone else I expect, will be on all these things for some time.

Fresh Air,

Do you remember where that darned link is for the PDF?

You can fax anything on a printed sheet of paper. As far as faxing direct from a PC, most of the major fax apps allow you to go direct from the major formats like Word and PDF.

Black Republican--

Here is your link

Eric--

Interesting. So do they time stamp at the top? And does it look like a conventional time stamp?

One advantage of a fax, it occurs to me, is the ability to do it with complete anonymity as opposed to an ISP whose records could be subpeonaed.

OK! Now we have the link from Fresh Air - here's the picture. I can't see the picture when I preview so I'm also giving the link where I posted it.

http://imagehost.bizhat.com/host/2004/Picture.jpg

This is strange - one of the 4 docs is different from the CBS or USA Today memo in that it's missing the 4th paragraph. It's the memo dated 01 August 1972. How could this happen? Does this mean it was faxed to FOX that way? A scanner at FOX couldn't mechanically leave off half the page, could it?

BTW, ignore the path info that you'll see in the PDF Document properties description page posted at bizhat. That got added in by them when a friend who often posts pictures on financial sites showed me how to get the picture to you. As I recall, in the original it was blank.

I was hoping earlier today that Fresh Air or someone could quietly speak to FOX computer person and ask them to check the date mechanism on the computer where they stored the pdf. Quietly would be better, before it gets changed. I'm not saying FOX is involved, but it's like a part of a crime scene where evidence should remain untouched. Otherwise, why don't we just openly ask Hannity or someone there to check into it? It would be easy for FOX to check if other documents received on Sept 10 by FAX and scanned into that same computer also have 6 Feb creation dates on them or not. If it's ONLY this one pdf, then it's important. Perhaps the very person who scanned it in, has useful info.

Am I the only one still awake in blogosphere? Where IS everyone?

BR--

I wouldn't know where to begin to find out who at Fox scanned the document.

And until I get some more info about "faxing" PDFs from computer to computer, I'm not sure there's any mileage to this angle.

And now, to bed...

Okay, thanks, Fresh Air.

It has occurred to me now that I'm looking at all 3 sets of docs in front of me, that perhaps the FOX date is not the anomaly. Maybe it's the CBS and US Today's pdf dates that are strange instead. Here are all the pdf creation dates from Fresh Air's posting on September 12, 2004 04:50 PM:

"The PDFs on CBS were created on Sept. 8.

The PDFs on USA Today were created on Sept. 9 and modified on Sept. 11.

The PDFs on Fox were created on February 6th! and faxed somewhere on September 10th."

ISN'T IT STRANGE that CBS would only create the pdf on their database on the SAME DAY as the show?

By comparing all 3 sets of docs, they seem to come from the same source - hee hee - I'm counting the stars, I mean the dots on the white parts! No, but seriously, the "random" markings do match, so they all sourced from the same first copy where the dots occurred. CBS's dots are the clearest. USA Today's dots are fewer with additional light grey larger squares all over the place, and FOX's dots are fewer than both the others, but still matching. This from a quick look, so feel free to do your own inspection and see. By the way, I'm using the 6-doc set at USA Today. I believe they also have a 4-doc set.

On CBS's 19 May 1972 memo there are hand-drawn underlinings in the text (not seen on the other sets) and a handwritten word or initials at the bottom right of the page. USA Today's set does have that, but Fox's doesn't.

So let's brainstorm on what this means. Possible scenario: They all had them in February. CBS makes underlinings on their copy and on the day of the show they load those on their database for the public to see on their site. Why US Today's pdf creation date is 9 Sept, modified 11 Sept., I don't know.

hmmm are you talking about the creation date? The one I downloaded says sept 10 around 3pm.

Note to Jennifer - look at http://imagehost.bizhat.com/host/2004/Picture.jpg. That's a picture taken of the pdf "Document properties - description" page earlier this morning of the FOXnews site's 4-docs set.

(Ignore the Path info - that got added at the host biznet site)

If someone knows how to just post the picture right here, please do so. Go back to the FOXnews site and get it fresh from there, not mine with the added inapplicable path info.

Always resisted getting computer savvy, but this whole scandal has one benefit, I'm learning how to look up PDF creation dates!

CBS - each of the 4 docs had separate pdfs. I've listed them in order of pdf creation (not memo date order):

01 Aug 72: created 9/8/04 at 6:07:04 pm, modified 35 secs. later.
18 Aug 73: created 9/8/04 at 6:07:48 pm, modified 11 secs. later.
19 May 72: created 9/8/04 at 6:08:07 pm, modified 8 secs. later.
04 May 72: created 9/8/04 at 6.08.23 pm, modified 9 secs. later.

FOX - just one pdf with the above 4 docs created 2/6/04 at 8:24:48 am (This February date issue not resolved yet.)

USA Today - just one pdf with 6 docs created 9/9/04 at 9:57:09, modified on 9/11/04 at 8:02:43 pm.

Further on CBS's creation times - so they sure waited until the last minute to create these versions on their database for public view. What time did the 60 Minutes show start EST? I'm sure they didn't receive them at the last minute (no pun).

Ace,

The time stamp could result from saving a new document into an older file, no?

Was the 'last updated' date in February?