Brilliant! One lies and the other swears to it.

I, for one, welcome our new pajama wearing overlords.

But see my earlier post in the hot thread - Burkett was in the TANG for 28 years, retired 1998. So he himself would have been there in 1970 already, and would have known Staudt retired in 1972, wouldn't he?

P.S. Fresh Air - have you seen my Michael Moore's Checklist Matches the Forged Docs post yet?

P.P.S. - I researched that overnight, probably simulateously with the Spectator people figuring out the tailor-made angle of the forgeries. Spectator says CBS newspeople went about with a "wishlist" and I found Michael Moore's "wishlist" exactly matching the forged docs contents.

Burkett was in the TANG for 28 years, retired 1998. So he himself would have been there in 1970 already, and would have known Staudt retired in 1972, wouldn't he?

Well, for one thing, I'm not saying the forger is necessarily Burkett. Indeed, one could argue that the forger made mistakes that someone who served in the TANG wouldn't make.

For another thing, though-- do I think someone would know the year of retirement of a man he barely knew 30 years ago? No, I don't. For crying out loud, sometimes I have difficulty saying the precise year I started or graduated from one school or another, and I have to resort to figuring it out manually (okay, HS in 19XX, college in 19XX... etc.).

So no, I don't think that someone would necessarily know when a man retired. Your OWN retirement, yes-- everyone looks forward to that. Someone else's-- you'd know they retired in the early seventies, and then maybe you'd check on-line to get the exact date, and then, VOILA, the Boston Globe just happens to inform you it was 1975.

1975? Sounds a little late. But then, that's what the Boston Globe says, so they must be right.

True. Whoever the forger is, they probably got that wrong retirement date from Boston Globe.

I'm going back to the "hot" site - hope new people reading here for the first time will see the interesting progression since Ace first posted those two "flashing signals" sites early on Sept. 12 around 8:00 am.

Ace--

Thanks for the hat-tip. Great work here!

BR--

I did a Proquest search and that was the only pre-Bush story I could find referencing Staudt. It would have stood as the reference mark among public documents.

Ace is right. Based upon the numerous errors in military style, it is highly unlikely Burkett was the author. But that doesn't mean he wasn't involved. Indeed, my guess is he provided some of the language used in the forgeries, especially the "running interference" phrase, which seems to be a favorite of his. Marty Heldt still seems like a plausible typist to me.

Also, can you tell me where your Moore Wishlist thing is?

Just when you think this story could not get any funnier!

To think that this snafu could all have resulted from (a) a ricochet from a dirty fight between two Democratic presidential candidates, plus (b) yet another egregious MSM unchecked factual error.

This truly is the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

Remind me again whether we are electing the team which will be entrusted, for four years, with the task of protecting our lives and those of our children?

To Fresh Air - hi!
My post to you and the rest of the pajama gang sleuths is called "Forged Docs Match Michael Moore's 11 Feb 04 Checklist" and it's posted on the Sept 12 thread with the flashing sirens. If you use your find key for "64" in Ace's home page, you should find that comment thread. If you don't find "64" check "65" etc, because things are moving so fast and hot there.

The site where I found Michael Moore's checklist of 7 "questions" which I matched up to the forged docs is at http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003240.html#102131.

Bye, going back to the "hot" site now. Hope to see you (read you) there.

I don't think Marty is a likely suspect. If only because he knows so much about the subject, it seems unlikely he would get facts wrong.

Plus, he sseems too smart to make the "CYA" blunder.

JMHO.

I'd like to add some quotes from the people the USA Today article interviewed that indicate that the forger(s) were unfamiliar with other internal protocols at TANG. The one from Killian's son is damnable for CBS.

His son, Gary, who also served in the Guard at Ellington from 1971 until 1979, said standard procedure would be for someone at the base to clean out the deceased officer's desk and turn over personal effects to the family. The family had no knowledge of any files Killian kept, he said. "I can tell you with absolute certainty no files existed other than in his office," Gary Killian said in an interview.

Gary Killian and Killian's widow, Marjorie Connell, say Killian was not the type of person to write memos or keep files. USA Today reports both are upset that his name has surfaced in connection with a highly charged political debate about Bush's Guard service.

Retired general Belisario Flores, who ran the Texas Air Guard at the time, said it was common practice for officers to write memos for a personal file to be used in managing and evaluating subordinates. But he said it would be unusual for such files to be preserved for years after they were written.

"Nothing is impossible, but I find it very difficult to believe that would happen," Flores said. He called Killian "a good friend" and said he couldn't remember him ever mentioning problems dealing with Bush. Many of the people who worked with Bush in the Guard have since died, he said.

I personally keep "up-arrow" & "down-arrow" memos for memory jogs on employee evaluations (hate, hate that part of the job) but I, and every other MGMT putz I know, disposes of those memos after evals are written. In the military, it's worse -you have career endangering regulations about strict control of classified, operational docs, and personnel related files. Screw up, lose control, and your dick is on the chopping block (a true 70's Navy term). The tendency of ANY person in mgmt, especially in the military, is to eliminate ANY stacks of informal paperwork that do don't absolutely need.

So this brings up the big question. IF Killian kept all the memos on all his subordinants for 12 years plus, like some pack rat, belying what all his contemporaries said about him, where are all the other memos on his men he wrote fitreps on? For that matter, where are the memos about Bush from 1971 and 1972? For that matter, where are the "up-arrow" memos of Bush's 1973 file that Killian mysteriously kept for a dozen years on a then nobody Dubya? Given that Bush had a good eval in 1973, if Killian was keeping memos on Bush and 100 other subordinants, surely the "atta-Bush' memos must be out there (Ha! Ha! on all these discrepencies being resolved).

The more you look and think, the more the whole CBS story stinks. It is collapsing on multiple lines of inquiry

1. Technical document authenticity issues.
2. Witnesses saying it is Bunk.
3. Logic - like where are all the thousands of other memos Killian must have had if the 6 Bush memos really exist?
4. CBS-Liberal Left motivation. Monetary motivations to lie about Bush's service.
5. Facts and words within the documents that show that the documents were not drafted by Killian in the early 70's.

Beautiful!....Hmmmmm....Should we be looking in the BOSTON AREA???

The Boston area is looking pretty promising. Information associated with a Dukakis smear over
TexANG, too.

It looks like the odds over Kerry or one of his high-level advisors being on a first-name basis with the forger just jumped, big-time. (Kerry was Lt.Gov to Dukakis's Gov.)

Open source intelligence strikes again.

Quick, Watson, the game is afoot! Now
somebody has to trace the rewritten citations for Kerry's Silver Star during
the tenure of Scty. of the Navy Lehman's
tenure. Might it be someone from Senator
Kerry's staff? Nawww. Couldn't be.

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