Don't know if this was covered here in an earlier thread, but I thought we weren't supposed to get all worked up when a politician indulged himself in sexual peccadillos, such as, I don't know, cigar probing. Why are we supposed to care that a married couple engaged in some kinky exhibitionism?

I think someone already said it (hell, it might have been you!), but the liberal media is cheifly offended that he wanted to do these dirty things with his wife.

That's the part they can't wrap their heads around.

Ah, gotcha. You're supposed to engage in the porno stuff with the staff, while the wives are to be left virginally pure so that their future senate campaigns aren't put in jeopardy.

This story absolutely frosts me. I'd be more likely to vote for the guy than I was before if he were running in my state, but a lot of Republicans don't seem to react this way.

Now, I haven't read every detail, but c'mon. Can it be any more absurd that this is an issue?

And the idea that this information was released...it's unconscionable. Everyone who goes through a tough divorce is going to have bad stuff in it. I don't blame Ryan for thinking nothing was bad in there.

If you're the kind of guy who believes having sex with your wife in public is a great idea, wouldn't you also likely think the public isn't going to be too upset?

Don't get me started on the Democrat hypocrites.

Maybe he can survive. The Schwarzenegger revelations didn't finish him, but that was California. And all indications are that Ryan blew the press conference.

What bothers me is the piling on by the local GOP party bosses. She has assumed everything in the pleadings to be true and has announced that she thinks she was lied to.

Uh, try to minimize the impact, you half-wit.

"Boss," that is.

What annoys me is this:

Take it is true.

So fucking what?

Now there's something wrong with a man asking his wife to try something kinky?

This will be a newsflash for every man in the fucking world.

An allegation of rape is no big deal. But if Jack Ryan (allegedly) asks his wife for public sex (and accepts her refusal), then we've got a scandal on our hands.

And Jeri Ryan was forced to admit she'd committed adultery. She needed something in those papers showing herself to be the wronged party.

All I can say is that I hope no one ever talks to my ex-girlfriends. Jeeze, you'll find lots of derogatory material there.

For starters, on numerous occasions, I wanted to have sex when a girlfriend did not, and then I whined and moped about it like a puppy who just got his nosed rubbed in poop.

Alert. The. Media.

The difference between extra-marital sex and extra marital sex is not to be sneezed at. – George Will

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/gw20040620.shtml

Good point.

It's a little like the media reporting that Al Gore raised illegal cash from the Chinese, and George W. Bush raised a large amoung of legal cash, as morally-equivalent acts that should both be subject to the same level of condemnations.

Illegal? Shmellegal. Look at all the money George Bush has raised.

I wanted to have sex when a girlfriend did not, and then I whined and moped about it like a puppy who just got his nosed rubbed in poop.

Precisely. I've now read the papers and it's just sad.

Mark my words, we're just this (insert pinched thumb and finger here) far away from the day when asking your wife/girlfriend to put out will constitute sexual harassment.

Jeri says she was--like Naomi Wolf--physically ill. What is it with these women? I mean Harold Bloom is one thing, but Jack Ryan doesn't look like such a loser. She married him. Why should his request for sex, even in public, make her physically ill?

Borg time of month?

All I've ever wanted to know is, man what's up with those breasts? I know she's some borg thing or at least a tough-minded but caring teacher in Boston, y'know, keepin' it real with the kids, but, man, what's up with those breasts? They're so...spectacular!

What?

There's a public image, at least in the minds of liberals, that Republicans are
"Bible-thumping Fundamental Southern Baptist Moral Dictators" who think shaking hands with a woman is promiscuous. And they're going to play that line for all it's worth.

"Why should his request for sex, even in public, make her physically ill?"

Well, physically ill, that is a bit fragile.

But I suppose it depends on what those other people in the room were actually doing to each other in front of her, and how badly she wanted to smash her husband's face like a Halloween pumpkin.

The internal conflict- smash face, or scream and run away- may have triggered the nausea.

It's not the kinkiness in itself; I think the main problem is taking her there without telling her. I would imagine that most women would not like to be 'surprised' in this manner.

For men who don't understand that their idea of a great surprise is NEVER her idea of a great surprise, the gander's side of the story would go like this;

A wife tells her husband that she has tickets to a Giants game on Sunday (this would be roughly equivalent to his proposing a 'romantic trip' to her).
Happily he dons his team jersey ('gets pretty') and jumps in the car.

She drives him to the mall and takes him clothes shopping for 6 hours instead as a 'surprise' (Her idea of showering him with love and attention).

Sure, he'll go clothes shopping sometimes with her if she asks him- but he's not happy today, and she is being spectacularly insensitive to trick him into it.

This has no bearing on whether or not Ryan would make a good public servant of course. Nothing at all. But if her accounts are true, he is some special kind of an insensitive jerk.

If you were married to '7 of 9' [or as a female friend called her, '7 with 2', wouldn't you want everyone to see you doing her?

Just asking.

Didn't want it to go this way, but OK...wouldn't you want to CONTINUE doing her, and be married to her even if she didn't like being seen in public having sex?

How frigid is she for not wanting to give a live sex show to strangers?

In other words, could you live with yourself without publicly humiliating your hot wife?

How old are you?

Lauraw, calm down. This material is from divorce proceedings and the child custody dispute.

As for being asked to have sex in public, even unexpectedly...oh, give me an effin' break. I've been asked by an ex-boyfriend. If some matter had come to court between us, I might have made a mountain out of that mole-hill, but otherwise, no.

So calm down. Jeri Ryan was fighting for a divorce and to keep her kid. Her chosen legal champion chose to emphasize a kinky, but not all that unusual, request.

Whoopee. Nasty allegations were made. At least Jeri Ryan has some scruples, and didn't accuse him of molesting his son.

Neither party wanted this material out there, as has been stated again and again. This isn't a legitimate topic to get excited about.

About ten minutes after I posted, I was waiting for somebody to tell me to chill.

We have all had a variety of requests...but truthfully nobody has dragged me to an S&M sex club.

"This isn't a legitimate topic to get excited about."

Hey, don't get me testy. I could go off again any minute now.

I think we should also stop assuming all of this is true.

Child custody disputes often feature allegations of child molestation and abuse. And those are frequently untrue.

Jeri Ryan admitted adultery, which I take to mean she was documented committing adultery. She needs to say something in reply to make her the victim.

As for the Lauraw/Dianna argument: I agree with Lauraw that, if this was asked for, it's a nasty and weird thing to ask of a wife, and I would generally say that no one should "ask" for such a thing. If you can't suppress such an urge, you should, at most, hint around about it and see what the reaction is.

On the other hand, even if he did ask-- he asked. An odd request, but still just a request, and one his wife was fully capable of refusing.

"No" means no. No question about that. And if you don't take no for an answer, it's rape.

But I hope we haven't gotten to the point where even asking a woman for a sexual favor and thus forcing her to say "no" constitutes a sexual violation as well.

I have a hard time believing that a Hollywood star with a body like that was shocked so much when her husband took her to a risque night spot. These aren't two "normal" people to begin with.

But be that as it may, I also reduce whatever is said in the court documents by about a factor of 10 because of the circumstances (divorce proceedings, as others have pointed out).

"Made me physically ill" in real life means she might have said, "I have a headache. Take me out of here."

If she were vomiting or something like that, the court documents would say, "I had to be hospitalized for a week and still require constant visits with my therapist."

Or...I forget...do they say something like that already?

But I hope we haven't gotten to the point where even asking a woman for a sexual favor and thus forcing her to say "no" constitutes a sexual violation as well.

Lucky she's not an empath like Councillor Troi. Then even thinking about sex with her would be a sexual violation.

Good gravy. Don't women who look that realize what most every man is thinking anyway, regardless of telepathic ability? At least Jack Ryan was willing to buy the cow before telling her in a bar he'd really like to do her.

Okay...I'll shut up now.

"At least Jack Ryan was willing to buy the cow before telling her in a bar he'd really like to do her."

You are quite the romantic devil Nick...
;)
Oh, the romance! He bought the cow!
While other people are sweating and grunting and whipping each other all around us...look into my eyes and tell me how much you love me!

I've gone on too long here too, sorry.

I think we're talking past each other. You're arguing this was loutish behavior. I agree, and I think NK and Dianna do as well.

I think they're agreeing, implicitly, that this was loutish behavior, but they disagree that this was loutish behavior that "rises to the level" of something the general public ought to be cheesed about.

I think there's also some dispute about whether this actually happened at all.

Laura: I'm mostly jesting.

But to use your point about misleading a man into going to the mall: one difference I see is a man can be ribbed about that. If a man said, "it made me physically ill," everyone would (I hope) laugh at him.

They're not equivalent, but some of that lack of equivalence is how each gender is expected to react. Women frequently say what they value most in a man is his sense of humor. Alright, y'all get one too, then.

Your husband takes you to a nightclub and says, "Let's me and you do it where other people can see."

You say, "You've got to be kidding me. I'm not sharing these magnificent boobies with all the other riffraff here. They didn't buy the cow." Try to laugh it off unless--as you accuse Jack Ryan of being--he's a hopeless jerk (which you happened to marry).

Short of that, there's no need to act like the man is the slimiest slug to escape from the local pervert refuge. To put it in the equivalent terms: The man wouldn't say, "I can't believe what a digusting liar you are by tricking me into this shopping mall. And what sort of values do you have wanting to shop so much anyway? Your excessive materialism makes me sick."

At least a romantic devil like me wouldn't say that.

Yeah, there's a lot wrong with that analogy really.

It worked at first for me because my husband would rather saw his leg off with a chainsaw and then go swimming in lemon juice, than go to the mall.

He would be TICKED. But other people are different.

I got waaaay too serious here.

Yeah, lauraw, you did. No big, though. And I like the mall analogy.

Also, a teeny-tiny point about the "S&M Club." If I'm remembering my time-line (I haven't read the documents, and I won't, it falls into the category, "None of my business, and get your prurient mind out of the gutter, girl."), that was the mid-90's or so, when the whole S&M scene was fashionable. Lots of couples went to 'dungeon parties.'

If the story is true, it just says they were behaving like all the other pretty people. Blech.

Ace and Dianna,

What you said.

And then there's this:

I once had a neighbor, in the 90's, while living in Chicago. He was a decent enough guy, was a self-employed journeyman/carpenter. He worked hard to rehab his house, kept a lovely garden, and had a golden retriever as a pet. He was kind of fat, kept his head shaved, and wore nothing but his jeans, white t-shirt, and construction boots. His wife was quiet but friendly. She was plain looking but pretty by any measure.

One summer evening, I caught glimpse of them driving in their pick-up truck. I stopped to say "hi". Each was clad in leather, metal, and was definitely loaded-for-bear, so to speak. She was almost unrecognizable, transformed in her leather and black latex.

They weren't embarrassed in the least. They said in a matter-of-fact way that they were going to a leather bar/spanking club, and that they did this kind of thing regularly.

Somehow, "Blech" wasn't the first thing I thought of.

I thought I recognized you.

I'll give your regards to Mabel.